Leo Rosten, Catherine Bowen, and Averell Harriman

In this Books and Authors Luncheon, hosted by Maurice Dolbier, humorist Leo Rosten speaks on comedy and free societies, biographer Catherine D. Bowen discusses her research problems, and former governor and foreign policy buff Averell Harriman speaks on his time in the Soviet Union, his assessment of their leaders, and his book "Peace with Russia?".


Maurice Dolbier begins the program by discussing auspicious events in literary history, including Melville joining a whaling mission, Sam Clemens stepping aboard a steamer, and Hemingway becoming a WWI ambulance driver. To this he includes Leo Rosten becoming a substitute teacher at a night school for immigrants. This lead to the birth of his character Hyman Kaplan.
Dolbier discusses some of Kaplan's verbal eccentricities and his biography. He talks about Rosten's biography, including his prodigious reading. He talks about his writing and work in education and for the government.

Rosten is speaking on humor. Dictatorships do not produce humorists. Humor is a counterpoint between "gravity and spoofery." humor teaches us how to cope with loneliness and anxiety. It teaches us how to master adversity and allows us to talk about things that otherwise could not be talked about. Humor cuts through the conventional, the prisons of the familiar. His speech is interspersed with jokes to illustrate his points. He talks about context and gestalt and how humor takes this into account in ways other discourses cannot. He talks about the "deception of facts." They don't tell us anything without context. He discusses human values and the dislike of being told what one believes. Humor is based on human compassion, humor that survives appeals to universal things. Humor deals with character, conflict, and commentary in a very economic way. Life does not have to make a point, but fiction does. He talks about the British humor of logic - the defiance of reason. He talks about people's love of Alice in Wonderland and Groucho Marx and Bertrand Russell's "set paradox." He closes by quoting Yogi Berra - "I'd sure want to thank everyone who made this day necessary."

Dolbier introduces Catherine Bowen and the people who have stood in the way of her research due to bias, giving examples from each of her books, about Tchaikovsky, Holmes, [John] Adams, and [Edward] Coke. He talks about her past, including her lack of formal education and her concert violin skills.

Bowen talks about the writing of biographies, the subject of her book - "Adventures of a Biographer." She has written 5 biographies, including "The Lion and the Throne." She talks about the "reaction" that set in after publication - she reflected on her past biographies. This reflection led to the current book. She talks about interviewing biographers and others in the process and trips taken to Poland and elsewhere in the effort to write her books. She tells an anecdote about traveling from Poland to Moscow and how it constitutes the first chapter of her current book. She was researching Tchaikovsky. She talks about the process of researching Holmes in Boston, on Beacon Hill, and in Washington DC and elsewhere.
It is the biographer's mission to make to bridge between the past to the present. She sees history as circle with two great arcs. The lower arc is the past, the upper is the present which grows upon the past; only when the two are linked do you experience history. She talks about finding the connection in something tangible or in a thought.
She talks about Edward Coke and the difference between 1552 and now. The difference is in what the 16th century believed about the visible world and other ideas. She talks about writing about the search for Coke. His books are housed in home of the Earl of Leicester, Holkham Hall. She had to borrow a bike to get to it. She describes Coke's library and the books she read there and other oddities about the library.

Dolbier describes the hope that followed the end of the European stage of World War II. He describes Harriman's work as American ambassador to Russia. He felt that the Yalta agreement should be reexamined, as should our policies in Korea. He talks about Harriman's recent book about his encounters with Russia and he Russian people and government. Dolbier talks about Harriman's many roles in politics and diplomacy.

Harriman talks about being honored by his being invited to contribute to the Books and Authors Luncheon. He talks about the book's conception. He thanks the voters of the state of New York for not voting him again as governor. He thank his publisher, Shuster.
He claims that peace with the USSR depends on Americans. He intends his book to be informative and entertaining. His objective in going to Russia was in getting information. He talks about the 1917 revolution - he felt it would affect his life and his country more than any other event. He thanks the Herald Tribune (the Books and Authors Luncheon's hosts) for their reportage over the years. He asks if the Kremlin had gotten soft in the Khrushchev era.
He feels that though different, the Khrushchev era isn't all that different in spirit than the Stalin era.
He talks about speaking with Stalin. Stalin felt communism would breed in the cesspools of capitalism. Khrushchev felt that the communism would develop an ideal life that other nations would be forced to follow. Stalin also felt that he was as much of a theorist as Lenin. Khrushchev was a student, a believer, not a theorist.
The use of terror is different under the two Russian regimes. Khrushchev felt that Stalin was becoming increasingly arbitrary in his use of terrorism. Khrushchev put very stern discipline above arbitrary terror in trying to keep Russian people in line. He talks about the dedication of Russian people who are willing to speak against Russian orthodoxy publicly.
Harriman talks about "the powder keg myth." There is no organized opposition in Russia in Harriman's view. He talks about how the people of the Soviet Union feel living in substandard housing with minimal freedoms. He agrees with Nehru - "education will not long tolerate the suppression of liberty," though he feels it will take some time. The Achilles Heel is that there can be a dictatorship that is good for the people in governs. He feels there will be a gradual development against the soviet regime.
His books is meant for the long haul, discussing the future of the Soviet Union and its relations with the US. Khrushchev is acting more like a politician than Stalin was. He is attempting to bring the Soviet Union a message of peace. He asks what public opinion counts for in the Soviet Union. He talks about arguing with Stalin about Poland and why the US would not let them have it in 1944. Stalin felt that the Russian people would have felt more secure if they had Poland; they had had 3 revolutions in a generation. Both Russian leaders felt they must bring the people with them. They must also control the Communist Party with patronage.
He describes the book as one in which he gives in the beginning chapter an answer to the question the book posed in the title: 'Peace with Russia?"

Irita Van Doren closes out the program by thanking the crowd and guests.

Audio courtesy of the NYC Municipal Archives WNYC Collection

WNYC archives id: 150521
Municipal archives id: LT8896