New York Public Radio Fires Hosts Lopate and Schwartz

Two weeks after their abrupt suspensions, longtime WNYC hosts Leonard Lopate and Jonathan Schwartz have been fired. In a statement, spokesperson Jennifer Houlihan Roussel wrote “New York Public Radio has terminated the employment of Leonard Lopate and Jonathan Schwartz following two separate investigations overseen by outside counsel. These investigations found that each individual had violated our standards for providing an inclusive, appropriate, and respectful work environment.”

It’s a stunning end for two of WNYC’s most recognizable voices: Lopate interviewed everyone from Barack Obama to Liza Minnelli on his long-running weekday show, while Schwartz maintained a devoted following for his weekend program dedicated to the American Songbook.

Schwartz declined comment when reached shortly after the announcement. Lopate said he was “really sad and totally shocked.” He called the decision “unjust.”

NYPR placed Lopate and Schwartz on leave on Dec. 6, pending investigations into “inappropriate conduct.”

Earlier this week, Schwartz told WNYC News, "This episode in my life truly is the most hurtful, outrageous and saddest I’ve ever experienced — and more.” Lopate said he was “stunned” by his suspension.

WNYC News was finalizing a story about the suspensions of the two hosts when reporters learned that NYPR was preparing to announce whether the two hosts could return to the station.

This investigation by reporters at WNYC News has not determined the specific reasons for the termination of Lopate and Schwartz. However, it has learned of multiple complaints against both hosts over the course of more than a dozen years. In several cases, they involved allegations of inappropriate comments and bullying.

Some of these incidents were brought back to the attention of management after news of the behavior by the former host of The Takeaway, John Hockenberry, became public. NYPR declined to comment on the incidents described in this article and would not say whether they contributed to the decision to fire Lopate and Schwartz.

In its statement, NYPR said that both men had been the subject of complaints this year: “The investigation into Leonard Lopate’s conduct was prompted by recent allegations of inappropriate behavior, following a previous substantiated investigation in February of this year of inappropriate remarks made by Lopate to staff. That previous investigation resulted in one-on-one anti-harassment training for him and a warning to Lopate that he was creating an uncomfortable work environment.

The investigation into Jonathan Schwartz was prompted by multiple complaints of inappropriate behavior received earlier this month and followed previous complaints, including as recently as November of this year, that were investigated and substantiated by New York Public Radio and resulted in disciplinary action at those times.”

The organization has been in crisis since Dec. 1, when New York magazine's The Cut published an article detailing how Hockenberry made sexual advances toward some colleagues and undermined and insulted others, including several women of color who had co-hosted the show. WNYC News followed that story with its own report. In a statement, Hockenberry said, "My behavior was not always appropriate and I’m sorry."

ALLEGATIONS AGAINST LOPATE

Lopate, 77, has been the host of his eponymous show for more than 30 years. During that time, he’s won numerous awards, including a George Foster Peabody Award. He has interviewed luminaries including Jimmy Carter, Margaret Atwood and Tom Hanks. Within a single show, topics can range from the rise of ISIS to the virtues of mustaches.

For those who worked on the show, the experience could be exhilarating, placing them at the center of current political debates and cultural events. Some of the show’s longtime contributing producers said they couldn’t imagine Lopate saying anything inappropriate.

“I’ve known Leonard for a very long time and he’s never said anything sexually suggestive at all,” said Susie Stulz who has worked intermittently at the show since 1996. “I am profoundly grieved because I think it’s so unfair. He’s such a good guy.”

Melissa Eagan, the show’s longtime executive producer, did not respond for comment to WNYC News.

But other producers described a turbulent workplace, with a host who has exhibited emotional outbursts and, they said, has made sexually suggestive comments.

WNYC News has learned of four individuals who have complained to management about Lopate in 2017: two based on recent incidents, and two more that occurred years ago. The women agreed to talk with WNYC News on the condition of anonymity. Each account has been confirmed by contemporaneous sources. NYPR declined to comment on these four complaints.

In February of this year, a producer met with a representative from human resources at NYPR to discuss multiple comments Lopate made to her that she considered sexually provocative. While she didn’t deem any single one to be “fireable,” she said the comments made her feel uncomfortable.

In one example, as she was preparing for a segment about a cookbook, Lopate explained how the avocado got its name. She said he told her that it came from the Aztec word for “testicle,” and then he made what she considered a crude hand gesture, adding “you know, because of the shape and the bumpy skin." Lopate referred to this incident in an interview with the New York Times. The paper reported “he was incredulous that such a statement would have resulted in a complaint to superiors.” Speaking with WNYC News earlier this week, he denied making the hand gesture and using the graphic description. He said of the etymology, “it’s an interesting fact.”

A second producer filed a complaint against Lopate in March, 2017, describing comments she felt were inappropriate. In one incident, she said Lopate was conducting an interview about undocumented immigrant women brought to the U.S. and forced to perform sexual acts. At one point, she said he muted his microphone and said to the producers in the studio, “Sounds like how I treat my staff.”  

Lopate said it was possible he made the comment, and if so, “it was a stupid statement” and called it his “Groucho moment.” But he added, “I’ve never crossed any lines.”

According to this same producer, however, comments like this were frequent. “When it adds up, it’s just a lot to deal with, and it affected my job performance,” she said. “It’s also hard as a young woman to go to work everyday knowing that your job is to make someone who’s doing this to you look good.”

In addition to these reports, two former producers made complaints about Lopate after reading the published stories about John Hockenberry and The Takeaway. The incidents happened several years earlier. Both women said that at the time of the incidents, they discussed their concerns with their managers.

“I was sexually harassed on the show,” claimed one of the women. In one instance in 2009, she said Lopate told her “‘I didn’t know you were so ‘bosomy’” after he saw her wearing a dress. This producer called SAG-AFTRA, the union that represents some employees at the station, and filed a complaint the day before Lopate’s  suspension. She stressed to WNYC News that it was about more than any single remark. “He made everyone cry at some point,” she said. SAG-AFTRA declined to comment.

“Leonard definitely said inappropriate things to me and my coworkers. A lot,” said another former producer who worked on the program more than a decade ago. “He pushed boundaries, and sometimes it was OK, and sometimes it wasn’t.” For example, she recalled that, while crawling under his desk to plug in his computer, he said: “‘Get off your knees or people will get the wrong idea.’”

She said she e-mailed human resources at NYPR this month to flag her experiences. She said she wanted to convey a broader message about the show’s work environment, which she described as “dysfunctional.” She added the program was largely supported by overworked producers and freelancers, as well as underpaid interns. In the spring of 2017, NYPR began a paid internships program.

Lopate denied making these comments to these two producers. “I would never say anything like that,” he told WNYC News.

ALLEGATIONS AGAINST SCHWARTZ

Jonathan Schwartz, 79, has been a fixture of New York City radio since the late 1960s. In 1999, he joined WNYC, serving up programs heavy on Frank Sinatra, Norah Jones, and his own stories about the music business. Until Schwartz was suspended, he hosted a total of eight hours on WNYC-FM on the weekends, and had his own digital stream called The Jonathan Channel.

He has also been volatile on occasion. In one instance about three years ago, he shouted insults and obscenities at another WNYC host inside the newsroom. Reporters and editors who heard the commotion rose from their desks in alarm. Schwartz quickly left.

The earliest complaint against Schwartz found by WNYC News was made in the early 2000s. Kerry Nolan, a host on WQXR and WNYC, said Schwartz touched her in an unwelcome way and made a sexually suggestive comment. A colleague who witnessed the incident reported it to management. Nolan and one other person with knowledge of the event confirmed the details to WNYC News.

That evening, Nolan returned home to find messages on her answering machine from both Laura Walker, president and CEO, and Dean Cappello, now the station’s chief content officer, asking for more details about the incident. Nolan believed Cappello spoke with Schwartz about his behavior. She said after that, Schwartz avoided her.

"It wasn't the least bit traumatic. It was inappropriate," Nolan said, adding that she was disappointed because she had long admired Schwartz's skills as a host.

Asked about the incident prior to his termination, Schwartz told WNYC News, “That’s entirely possible,” but, “I don’t remember it.”

A second complaint was filed in 2014. A female colleague who worked with Schwartz reported that he commented on her appearance frequently, making her feel uncomfortable. Her manager reported Schwartz's behavior to human resources and senior management. Three sources familiar with the incident have confirmed this account.

The complaint was reviewed during a meeting that included Walker. Managers later met with Schwartz. Soon after, he apologized to the female colleague. She said his behavior towards her improved.

When asked about this incident by WNYC News, Schwartz responded, “Can’t a man say, ‘You look good. Gee, you’re attractive?’”

NYPR declined to comment about these two complaints.

On Dec. 5, with harassment allegations in the news, this producer alerted human resources to her previous complaint. The next day, NYPR put Schwartz on leave citing pending investigations into allegations of inappropriate conduct. WNYC News cannot confirm if this complaint was considered in Schwartz’s suspension. NYPR declined to comment.

CALLS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY

The sudden suspensions of Lopate and Schwartz earlier this month caused confusion and outrage among listeners. In the two weeks since that announcement, hundreds of them registered their feelings on WNYC’s website. Some attended a recent meeting of the station’s board to voice their concerns in person.

“I question the judgment of the executives, frankly,” said Ken Coughlin, a longtime fan who brought along his Lopate Show potholder to the recent board meeting. “I think there was an overreaction because of what happened with The Takeaway and the pendulum swung all the way to the other side.”

The organization is under pressure to demonstrate that it takes harassment seriously, while also being transparent and treating all employees fairly — goals that naturally come into conflict.

“WE MUST DO BETTER”

Laura Walker has repeatedly expressed regret that the station did not live up to its values. On Dec. 15, she released a statement to listeners reiterating her commitment to do better.

“A respectful, inclusive work environment is not a privilege,” she wrote. “It’s a fundamental right. And we are committed to ensuring that every single member of our community — from host to intern, guest to listener — feels safe, heard and valued.”

Walker’s approach, so far, has been to host private meetings with small groups of staff and hire outside consultants. She has promised changes in senior leadership.

NYPR has brought in Howard Z. Robbins, an attorney with Proskauer Rose, to re-evaluate human resources policies and procedures. Robbins will also examine actions by Laura Walker and other company executives. Madhulika Sikka, the public editor at PBS, has been hired to assess the organization’s content division. Additionally, NYPR plans to review the organization’s reliance on temporary workers, examine diversity at the station, and improve employment practices.

But this has not satisfied some employees. Last week, sixty-nine of them signed a letter to Walker and the board.

“Our mission as a news and cultural organization is to hold institutions accountable,” the letter said. “For that reason, we must now ask the hard questions about the institution we love and cherish.”

For now, The Leonard Lopate Show will be called Midday on WNYC and feature a variety of hosts interviewing newsmakers, writers and artists. The format of the program will remain similar. WQXR’s Paul Cavalconte will guest-host The Saturday Show and The Sunday Show in place of Jonathan Schwartz.

This story was edited by Sean Bowditch, Charlie Herman and Kate Hinds. Senior WNYC management had no oversight of or influence on this story.

EDITORS' NOTE: This article has been updated to reflect WNYC News' ongoing investigation into allegations of harassment at the organization. Also, the daily show from 12-2pm will be called Midday on WNYC and the spelling of Paul Cavalconte's last name has been corrected.