This episode is from the WNYC archives. It may contain language which is no longer politically or socially appropriate.
From card catalog: Foreign Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto discusses his nation's foreign policy and position in world affairs. He talks about the ideological basis of his nation and presents and defends Pakistan's views on the India- China clash and the Kashmir problem. With Q & A.
Barrett McGurn introduces Bhutto. Bhutto apologizes for being so late.
The present situation (Kashmir?), clashes between India and Pakistan.
Direct elections in Pakistan? A state of crisis has prevented direct elections so far.
US aid to India? The Soviet Union sees Pakistan as an adversary because it is an ally of the US.
Pakistan's relation to China, influence on US? India's relations with US and USSR are based on expediency. The US claims it wants a footing in India, but Pakistan says it isn't possible. The US has interests and principles to adhere to. Negation of free enterprise to build a steam mill in India; the USSR will do it instead, but the US shouldn't go back on the decision. Pakistan desires to have normalized relations with all border countries.
How can Johnson and Rusk improve US relations with Pakistan? "I have nothing to lose but my job."
Camel driver? "Keeping him in shape for the presidential elections."
Audio courtesy of the NYC Municipal Archives WNYC Collection
WNYC archives id: 70397
Municipal archives id: T549
This is a machine-generated transcript. Text is unformatted and may contain errors.
I'd like to. Introduce. The ambassador of Pakistan to the United Nations ambassador I'm just Alli Mr Ali we just Tempest. The Pakistan ambassador to Washington Ambassador I'm odd. Thank. You vice consul I mean. Vice Consul i dream. Karim. At the head table you all recognize Joe Nomen our program director who arranged this program for us. And the immediate past president of the Overseas Press Club will you all and. It's. A delight for us to see so many here today a reminder to us once again of the of the unique role that the Overseas Press Club is able to serve here in New York City in the capital of American communications one comment I'd like to make is that last night we had another event here at the club which certainly should please all of us who love the Overseas Press Club we had our annual exhibition of books written during the past twelve months by members of the Overseas Press Club and we had no fewer than seventy new titles on display. The Press Club the Overseas Press Club now is currently publishing through its various members between seventy and ninety books each year and so I think that we have got many reasons to look confidently to the the role that this club will continue to play in New York and in America in the future it's my very great pleasure to introduce foreign minister. Bhutto who knows us very well he was a student at U.C.L.A. at Berkeley for several years before going on to Oxford and has been a major figure on the world stage ever since the age of thirty when he became the youngest cabinet member in the history of Pakistan and he comes to us at a time at a time when Pakistan and its future role is especially high in the news all of us have watched with with attention and very often with nervous attention the development of the Kashmir dispute which is now unhappily in its seventeenth year and various of the repercussions which can be traceable to the Kashmir dispute. The controversy between Pakistan and the United States over military aid to India following the the border war between mainland China and India and the consequent the subsequent consequences of inside inside. Center and indeed in Pakistan's relations with mainland China with Albania with Russia. All of these problems that have have held the attention of US foreign correspondents over the past twenty four months and it is our great privilege to hear directly from Foreign Minister Bhutto. His comments now on this critically important problem Mr Minister Bhutto. Chairman Ladies and Gentleman first of all on behalf of my colleagues and myself I'd like to apologize to all the fuel for the inconvenience we caused to you all for being late for this function I come from a very small village in Pakistan so I couldn't quite to reckon with the New York traffic between the hours of twelve invited and I'm told in the evening it's even worse so primarily for that reason we were unable to get here on time I'm also sorry that we have to rush through meals and specially I had quite finished my my chicken but nonetheless. As the Security Council is to meet this often on its way to that my request that we began a little earlier if I were one of the lies men from the East at this time just two hours before the Security Council I should be meditating and not doing anything else but thinking of the debate which has reached important and a critical stage but meeting you is equally important for us because I feel that sometimes there is unnecessary misunderstanding between Pakistan's president foreign policy. We have to be to believe said that there is no basic change in our foreign policy we are members of. Two important defense alliances CA two and center and we made our contributions in the past to the alliances and in strengthening the forces of freedom and the interests of the free world however sometimes these things are forgotten when one is concerned with present issues and I think that this is not fair and it's not the right approach because one has to take into consideration the totality of a situation and policies are based not from moment to moment or from day to day but they are ingrained in some permanent feature than elements of a given society and if Pakistan's position were to be looked on from that vantage point and I feel that every country's position should be looked on from that vantage point I would say that there is no cause for a grave alarm I see I see that it's important to consider certain permanent aspects of a country's position because Pakistan is. Not a state in the ordinary sense of the word. Of the concept of a nation state we are an ideological state. For overs a number of years we had to struggle for independence and Pakistan had to be established because we felt that our values our principle obvious life was so important to us that we had to we had to struggle for it. And struggle for it not only against the local communities but also against the British British interests and the British Empire in order to get Pakistan and the sector faces can never be in vain because. Millions of people lost their lives in order to achieve not only our independence but our ideological aspirations and to us our way of life and our values are so important that we felt it was necessary to divide the subcontinent and have a separate state whereby we could protect of way of life and therefore we feel that we have not only an important internal role to play in Pakistan itself but we have an important vital and a positive contribution to make to international peace and into international order because one of the important and fundamental precepts of our way of life is the brotherhood of man and equality of men that is why we have championed all the causes of the United Nations which have led to the promotion of peace and to the advancement of the human dignity. These are values which are shared by many other countries and by many other people but to us they are incumbent values we can never depart from them when the rest of the world disapproves of apartheid it is also out of human considerations it's also because there are certain fundamental human values but for us the challenge of appetite is all it's even greater because it is rooted in our ideology and our way of life therefore I think it is important to appreciate these fundamental aspects of our foreign policy which can never change under any circumstances if Pakistan has to have the meaning for which its people sector face so much and so heroically for its attainment coming to the present situation which prevails in the subcontinent and in Asia generally we feel that as allies and as and eyes were made our contribution in the alliances it is our right to also inform our allies of what we think is the situation and by doing so we are not only during the in the subcontinent but are entering a service to the alliances and to our friends. We have said that the conflict between India and China was not a continent to conflict it was nothing more to add then a border clash between China and India all subsequent events have shown that it was nothing other than a boundary question the unilateral declaration of ceasefire the withdrawal by the chart Chinese armies and the present situation in which India is trying to seek some sort of settlement with China all post to establish what Pakistan had to sell to tell to our allies that this was not a bound for no more than a boundary clash it did not call for military assistance from our allies to India because in the long run India does not intend to use these arms against China but against Pakistan and that is so because in the last sixteen years India has resorted to force against Pakistan on no less than four occasions we are conditioned by our past experience we know that in the past India has used her armed might and our armed force against Pakistan and she continues to hold the people of Kashmir in bondage Indian leaders. To this day say that Pakistan is that enemy number one and senior ministers of the Indian government have said that India should become Pakistan's graveyard the other day the prime minister of India said in that in this Parliament which they call the locks about that in the interest of the defense of India it may be necessary to take up offensive action against Pakistan now we cannot take these these declarations of war and these threats with equanimity and you can imagine the extent of the modernization that our people would feel over the military assistance that is being given to India. In these in these recent months and I believe that this military assistance to India is going to continue if the military assistance to India continues it's going to pose a very serious problem for the people of Pakistan I do not like to make comparisons but nonetheless sometimes comparisons are have to be made in order to try and impress on our friends the situation so I was once told. That if. Cuba what we receive military assistance from some source then naturally the people of the United States would get very agitated Now if the people of the United States were to get educated by giving military assistance. Which in comparison to the United States cannot really pose a threat then you can imagine what the feeling of the people of Pakistan would be when India which is already three to four times the size of Pakistan should receive military assistance from our people none of us none of us live in a vacuum as you have your people to contend with in a democracy on various issues we too have got powerful and forceful public opinion and although we may try and moderated them we may try and bring about some sense of moderation trying to explain the point of view of our allies nonetheless you must appreciate that the conflict between our two communities has unfortunately gone on for centuries and it is embedded in history it's very difficult for the government of Pakistan to try and explain to the people of private parts of Pakistan that the military assistance that is being given to India is in the interest of the free world it cannot be in the interest of the free world because India has no intention whatsoever of taking on a long term conflict with China or with any other communist state Moreover India's past record would also show that a natural inclinations and feelings are not in the interest of the free world I would not at this stage like to tabulate or to tell you what Pakistan's position has been on various issues and what India's position has been on various issues this is for you to see and we believe that. The threat from India to Pakistan is increasing until and unless the problem of Kashmir sort I'm afraid that we will not be able to. Take with any calm or tranquility the economic and military assistance which is increasing gradually to India so that it is necessary for us to tell our friends of our difficulties and that our friends and allies as friends and allies would appreciate these difficulties which the government and people of Pakistan face I thought would not like to invite questions because I was told that I just before what ten minutes or so thank you Mr. Taylor. Thank you Mr Minister are there any questions the question is the minister in his speech to the Security Council mentioned that the democracy of Pakistan has showed itself in direct elections when does he foresee that the process will move on to having democracy Short's open direct elections. When the partition of the subcontinent of India took place at that time India had a vendor stablish organize machinery whereas in Pakistan we had to literally begin from the word go from the word scratch and in addition to that there were our civil service had to be reorganized altogether our armed forces were divided over in many parts of India and the death of Mr Jinnah immediately a year after the partition posed a little serious problem for us the influx of five million refugees and not to say anything about the Indian attacks in. Kashmir so we have been living in a in a state of crisis from day to day and in that situation for us to have developed institutions to the extent that we have developed them has I think also a tribute to our people and there are countries which are very proud of their democracies and we are proud of the efforts we have been able to make to lead towards a full and proper democracy in accordance with the genius of our people we have a constitution which we in one hundred fifty six we had our first Constitution unfortunately did not prove to be workable so we had another one in one thousand nine hundred sixty two we've had two elections under it and we hope to have presidential elections next year as well as elections for the national and the provincial assemblies and we hope that gradually we can go on to a more full and a more complete democracy and that can only come with normalcy and a sense of national security. Quest is for comment on the report but since the China India border dispute the Soviet Union has sent one hundred thirty million dollars in military aid to India which is actually more the United States. And whether we have. A statute of every area for military assistance and the buildup of military arms of India but there is a basic difference as part of the Soviet Union is concerned it unfortunately regards Pakistan as an adverse to the of the Soviet Union and it regards Pakistan as an adverse to the Soviet Union not because they did not like our face but because we are members of CA too and they say that because we a member of the military alliances and are allies of the United States their interests clash with us and when the you do took off from our They made many threatening statements and the US with various consequences therefore when a threat comes from an adversary a nation has to have the courage and has to have the guts and the stamina to face it but when the. Liabilities are increased by friends that's a different situation the question is. Do. Pakistan's relations with Peking bear in any way a part of Pakistan's relations with its Western allies. For one thing as far as our relations with the People's Republic of China are concerned they are not on the basis of India's relations with the United States and the Soviet Union India's relations with the United States and the Soviet Union are based on naked expediency they tell the United States if you don't give us a steel mill we'll go to the Soviet Union now this story that has come out in the New York Times it's a calculated campaign so that the night before the defense minister of India comes to the United States the United States administration should be told that this is what the Russians have given us and you must match it you must make it better and the object is obvious it is an attempt a crude attempt to make to the two great powers to compete with one another and vive with one another in order to in