Streams

Will the Rockets and Missiles Stop Flying?

Tuesday, July 15, 2014

A Palestinian Hamas member stands guard in front of a destroyed building following an Israeli air strike on July 14, 2014 in Gaza City. (THOMAS COEX/AFP/Getty)

This morning Israel has accepted an Egypt-brokered cease fire, but reports are Hamas has rejected it. Steven Erlanger, London bureau chief and former Jerusalem bureau chief for The New York Times, discusses the latest in the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the US response.

Guests:

Steven Erlanger

Comments [71]

Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

The isolationist and "anti-war" movement permitted Socialist Hitler to rearm and invade Europe.

Today isolationists and the fake "anti-war" movement provides ideological cover for Islamist imperialism.

Jul. 17 2014 05:37 AM

Finally, the other correctly drawn conclusion that the "tragic" (but earlier unacknowledged) lack of (US) constraint post-WW1 rendered Brit and French hegemony and led to the even more unhealthy imbalance in Europe, resulting in the even more tumultuous WW2...some seem destined to repeat in the Mid-East. It is avoidable hubris which precedes tragedy.

Jul. 16 2014 04:07 PM

The point is that earlier claims made here of US constraint in the League of Nations were not consistent with reality (and made disingenuously?). Also that of the Mandates - ALL the Ottoman entities were given "A" status; "B" Mandates were for German overseas colonies and "C" status for Pacific Islands...The earlier implication of Palestine having an "A" status that it conferred anything exceptional is also false. That Hitchens (or Tony Judt) is dead does not invalidate the truth. Israel's dominance is due to its being the largest recipient of unquestioned, unconditional US aid, something which Tony Judt lamented, seeing the fetid political atmosphere of its bullying, with so many "invested" in "spoiling" peace. Haaretz criticizes Israel more in one week than a decade of US "coverage" [sic].

Jul. 16 2014 02:54 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

TO jerseyjim

Yes, it was tragic for Wilson and the world that the US did not actually join the League because of Republican isolationism, and that is why we got WWII. The US was determined not to make that mistake again after the war and hence the US has been extremely involved in everything in the world as a result.

As for Christopher Hitchens, He's dead. God lives; Israel lives; Hitchens is dead.

Jul. 15 2014 10:38 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N84iJOos1s

Jul. 15 2014 07:20 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations#mediaviewer/File:The_Gap_in_the_Bridge.png

Jul. 15 2014 07:10 PM

Imagine today if AFRICAN-AMERICAN churches were being attacked and fire-bombed across the South ... in full daylight with hundreds of marchers.

See THE NEW POGROM IN PARIS - parts 1-3 below.

Jul. 15 2014 06:23 PM

EYEWITNESS TO THE NEW "POGROM IN PARIS" against Jews. PART 1

"On July 13, Bernard Abouaf, a French Jewish journalist, posted on his Facebook wall: “What I have seen today,” he remarked, “is Arab hatred against Jews. Pure hatred. Right in the middle of Paris. Don’t try to ‘explain’ or ‘understand’, it was hatred, period.”

“I will not forget the fear in their eyes as they went out,” wrote Abouaf. This time, it was not just the Tunis pogrom he had in mind, but “scenes of the Holocaust itself.”

Police forces, including CRS (anti-riot units) would soon be dispatched. It took some time before his orders were implemented; once deployed, even the heavily equipped CRS had to engage into hard fighting and some of them were wounded.

Jul. 15 2014 06:19 PM

NEW POGROM IN PARIS - PART 2
Muslim mobs attack Paris Jews and synagogues-

"Similar incidents occurred all over Greater Paris and France at about the same time. On the Sabbath, a Molotov cocktail was thrown into a synagogue at Aulnay-sous-Bois, a Parisian suburb.

At Asnieres, another suburb, the police said a Muslim mob of 300 gathered in front of the synagogue. Smaller group of Muslim mobsters attempted to get into the Belleville synagogue, in northeastern Paris, and into the Tournelles synagogue, in the Marais district."

Jul. 15 2014 06:16 PM

POGROM IN PARIS - PART 3

"No less horrid were the many pro-Palestinian rallies, in Paris, Marseilles, Lille, Bordeaux, and other cities, complete with Palestinian and ISIS flags and proudly displayed fake Fajr rockets. The demonstrators–almost all of them of North African or Subsaharan African origin–shouted explicitly anti-Semitic slogans, notably “Itbah al-Yahud!” (Slaughter the Jews, in Arabic.)"

Jul. 15 2014 06:15 PM
kriss from brkln

this guest on the phone from israel is possibly the worst you've had on the show...no one better on this issue? he doesn't sound interested in the words coming out of his own mouth.

Jul. 15 2014 03:50 PM
Seth

"whenever different groups came into contact they, at one time or another, hated each other." -- while this may be true to a large degree, it is not entirely factual.

Maybe if people dealt less in half-truths and absolutes, we could make the planet a better place to live. But clearly, no one on this comment thread is ready to go there yet.

Jul. 15 2014 12:31 PM
Seth

"We are all ruled by the dead hand of the past..."
Please keep in mind that this is just your opinion, or some old cliche, but it is not supported by facts.

Jul. 15 2014 12:28 PM
Seth

And don't forget, Christians blamed the Jews for the plague, too. I'm not saying that this issue or the ones you mention are anything but damnable. I just observe that it happened.

Jul. 15 2014 12:25 PM
Seth

"Christian theological hatred against the Jews - out of whose religion Christianity and Islam were born - has fomented hatred against Jews"

I don't mind the discussion, but I have no idea what this even means.

Jul. 15 2014 12:22 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Bob from Crooklyn,

More Germans than Americans or Brits died in WW2.

Who was the aggressor in WW2???

Jul. 15 2014 12:14 PM
henry from md

@Seth clearly this is not the forum for any serious humane discussion.
There has been a continuous Jewish population in Palestine (as it was called after the Romans defeated the last Jewish rebellion against their empire) throughout recorded history. Christian theological hatred against the Jews - out of whose religion Christianity and Islam were born - has fomented hatred against Jews throughout the ages and kept them in perpetual almost slave like submission in Christian countries. We are all ruled by the dead hand of the past and theological hate is at the bottom of much of it.
As for your sly remark, Seth, (sly, because you insinuate that Jews are specially expulse-worthy) re England's expulsion of Jews after they borrowed money from them and decided to expunge the debt by ridding themselves of the Jews (all Jews mind you - not just the money lenders) you should bear in mind that Christians (the Church authorities) barred Jews from most sources of income, land and trades!
You should also consider that it is the human species, split into groups, which has shown that whenever different groups came into contact they, at one time or another, hated each other. Very sad, and we must change or perish together, my friend.
Now England has erected sculptures to persecuted Jews (e.g. Liverpool street railway station, to kids of the Kindertransport of which I was one).
This discussion is now closed on my part.

Jul. 15 2014 12:04 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

The behavior of Al Qada, Taliban, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbullah, Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Jihad, Boko Haram, Islamic Republic of Iran disprove the meme of "the Religion of Peace".

Jul. 15 2014 12:01 PM
Erlanger has a posse

> Erlanger HATES Israel and especially HATES Israelis, who he sees as embarrassing, uncouth, pushy Jews.

Considering the behavior of the Zionists on the WNYC comments I can see why he would come to that conclusion...

Jul. 15 2014 11:56 AM

It is odd to cite Wilson & the League of Nations, when he was frustrated by Congress's rejection of it, giving fuller reign to the then victorious European powers (with their own [UK] motive for Balfour). Saying there were 50 members is ignoring who were the most powerful, and prominent, especially after WW1 and then to rationalize the "Mandate" system, a clever post-facto ad-hoc scheme is just more of the same, the old "Tran-Jordan" argument, when Jordan is Hashemite... that so many residents ARE Palestinian reflects their plight on the ground further west. (The "King of Mecca"? It's not in Jordan.) Buying land from "motivated sellers" with the Stern gang is a nasty rationale.

Jul. 15 2014 11:49 AM
BL Producer

[[We're removed and edited a few comments for violating the WNYC posting policy. We know this is a sensitive and contentious topic, but we ask that you refrain from personal attacks.

-BL Show Moderator-]]

Jul. 15 2014 11:43 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

The Hamas Charter/Covenant of 1988, the same year that Pan Am 103 was bombed, killing 270 people

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Pan Am Flight 103
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

Jul. 15 2014 11:40 AM
Seth

"And here some news for you - a right to any property comes from the business end of a gun."

that's not even close to being true, but thanks for repeating what you hear. Sad that you think it's so.

Also, native americans did not believe in property ownership. They believed that the earth belonged to the gods, not people.

Jul. 15 2014 11:38 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Any European, African, Asian who is against Occupation and lives in North America should end their own brutal occupation of Native American land - and pay reparations.

Jul. 15 2014 11:36 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

A "Palestine" would be as peaceful as Syria where 160,000+ have died - that's Arabs killing Arabs,

and as "peaceful" as ISIS who beheads surrendered Iraqi soldiers

and as "peaceful" as the Taliban in Afghanistan which shoots girls (Malala) in the head for having the audacity to want an education.

Why does Hamass use women and children to stand on the roof of buildings to act as Human Shields? That's a War Crime.

Jul. 15 2014 11:31 AM
sanych

@seth

Reading comprehension.

In my first message I clearly typed "they can't", not "they couldn't".

And here some news for you - a right to any property comes from the business end of a gun.

Jul. 15 2014 11:22 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To jerseyjim

The earlier secret Sykes-Picot agreement was NEGATED by the League of Nations! Woodrow Wilson pushed the creation of the League of Nations down Britain and France's throats! yes, they wanted to turn the Middle East into British and French colonies like AFrica and India. But Wilson said "NO." There was to be "self-determination." He invented the concept. The it was the League of Nations that ADOPTED the Balfour Declaration and turned it into INTERNATIONAL LAW. The Mandates became international law! And the League had over 50 members so it was not just Britain and France alone.

Jul. 15 2014 11:18 AM
Seth

sanych, I didn't say that they had a right to this land today. I said that I wished that they had kicked us out at the time. big difference.

Jul. 15 2014 11:11 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Mr. Bad

It was called the "Jewish National Home" and it was a Class A Mandate. Class A Mandates were eventually slated to become independent states EVENTUALLY.There was a Mandate for Syria and Mandate over Mesopotamia (Iraq) and they became states.

And if you read it you see that there is no reference to "Palestinians" but only "non-Jewish communities." No other nation was recognized as existing in what the Europeans called "Palestine." When referred to "Palestinians" in 1922 it meant you were talking about the Jews living there. The Arabs called themselves Arabs or "Souther Syrians" (Al Shams) and so on. And Jews were specifically given the right to resettle all "wastelands" and "state lands" and any private real estate they could buy for cash. The Jews did manage to by 8% which was actually 21% of the habitable land. 66% of "Palestine" was wastelands and state lands so 2/3rds was immediately slated for Jewish settlement. On top of that about 8% was purchased for money, making it 74% of Palestine slated for Jewish settlements, including what is now called the "West Bank."

Jul. 15 2014 11:10 AM

No one "gave" the Arabs 11 states, on the contrary, Sykes-Picot was drawn for the benefit of France & Britain, not only not taking into account tribal distinctions, but deliberately exacerbating them in some areas for oil-gain and sea-lane control. It is a smug rationalization (& an ironic validation of their Ottoman-era status) to suggest the Palestinians should have relocated, and an even more gratuitous, triumphalist defense of blatant war-mongering (with US support) to cite the conflicts that have arisen from this deplorable situation. Israel's racist rhetoric is even deplored in Haaretz, which notes that Israel really doesn't want peace (Google article) continuing with settlement building - despite UN resolutions to the contrary. But then Haaretz's unbiased truth is dismissed by the facile boilerplate we have seen so prominently propagated, and imposed on the "narrative" so far.

Jul. 15 2014 11:07 AM
sanych

@Seth

It does not appear that logic is your strong point.

If Cherokees have a right to their ancestral land in Georgia, then, by your admission, Jews have a right to land in Land of Israel.

Jul. 15 2014 11:05 AM
Jose from Queens

Brian said Hamas "won the election in Gaza." This is neither correct nor honest. For better or for worse, Hamas won the majority of seat on the Palestinian Parliament. The US and Israel did not like this result and immediately asked Russia, the UN and the EU to stop funding to the Palestinian government. Of course this government collapsed due to lack of funds and Fatah was asked to come and take over the West Bank again and Hamas retreated back to Gaza.

I don't understand what is all this walking on eggshells around the Israel-Palestine issue. It leads to misinformation and it doesn't help. All sides involved are playing hard politics and taking hard, reactionary stances. It is no surprise that no progress has been done in 50 years.

Jul. 15 2014 11:03 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ jgarbuz from Queens

No, you're incorrect. The British Mandate for Palestine was never, ever, ever, ever supposed to become a unitary Jewish state. Ever. Link to your source. Transjordan/Jordan are the same territory just different names and they were specifically EXCLUDED by the League of Nations (Transjordan Memo) BEFORE the Mandate came into effect. The Palestinian occupied areas of the land East of the Jordan river were supposed to either become part of a larger pan-Arab state or exist separately as an independent Arab state which is what the Peel Commission intended to implement in 1937.

Jul. 15 2014 11:01 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Tom who wrote:

>When will the Jews learn that you can't fight your way to peace. Same mistake that the US made in Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel will never be able to kill its way to a peaceful state. Never. Ever.<

Well the US fought many wars too, and did defeat Geronimo who eventually surrendered, and did defeat Mexico and steal have of its land. And the Israelites fought the Philistines, the EGyptians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Seleucid Syrian_Greeks, the Romans and now the Arabs. And will continue to fight until either defeated or the Arabs accept a Jewish state and make peace. What else is there to do?

Jul. 15 2014 11:00 AM
Seth

henry, are you sure? got any facts? I understand that in the 1400s there were more Jews in Great Brit' than in the entire middle east... until they were thrown out of there, too. I'd call that having left.

Jul. 15 2014 10:55 AM
henry from md

@Seth - we never left.

Jul. 15 2014 10:51 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

What's going on in Gaza now reminds me of WW2. The Nazi's had policies in countries that they were occupying. If you kill one German soldier or official, we will kill a hundred of yours, or whatever number that they may decide. The state of Israel seem to operate on those principals in the Gaza Strip.

Jul. 15 2014 10:50 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To NB

The name was changed from "holy land" to the State of Israel, but really should be changed again to the Jewish State of Israel since there are so many who can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept that Jews are a nation who were displaced and dispersed but always did have a tribal homeland.

Jul. 15 2014 10:50 AM
Seth

sanych, so right. I'm sad that they couldn't. It would have resulted in a much better world once we had learned from such a turnback.

Jul. 15 2014 10:49 AM
Tom

"How many wars does the Jewish state have to fight and win for the Arabs to accept the Jewish state"

The answer is 0!

When will the Jews learn that you can't fight your way to peace. Same mistake that the US made in Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel will never be able to kill its way to a peaceful state. Never. Ever.

Jul. 15 2014 10:47 AM
sanych

@Seth

If Native Americans had the means, they would have kicked your ass back to Africa. They just can't...

Jul. 15 2014 10:46 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Jim who asked

>Why is Israel using F-16s? <

Because planes can be recalled and pilots can make decision whether to bomb or not. A missile cannot be recalled or change its mind.

Jul. 15 2014 10:44 AM
NB

The Holy Land needs a new name.

Jul. 15 2014 10:43 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ MartinChuzzletwit

Erlanger hates Jew huh? Isn't that the basic argument whenever anyone criticizes Israel? "You're an anti-semite if you disagree with Israeli policy" ... do you really think that works anymore? Isn't it time to mention the Holocaust yet or call Hamas Nazi's or something... LOL, nobody falls for that anymore pal.

@ jgarbuz from Queens

(amended comment for clarity)

The League Of Nations created the Mandate for Palestine which did not establish any internal borders, only those with neighboring states. The intention was for a SEPARATE Jewish and Palestinian homeland within the mandate, Jordan was specifically excepted.

Jul. 15 2014 10:43 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Mr. Bad

Incorrect. Eastern Palestine became the Emirate of Transjordan and so the Zionist claims east of the Jordan river were nullifed. Jews could not settle in what is now Jordan, which by the way is now over 50% "Palestinan" in population.It really is the Palestinian state and the King should really be the King of Palestine not of Mecca. So the Jews were shortchanged in 1922 when all the land in eastern Palestine became that Arab state, and then the UN in 1947 voted for a "Partition Plan" compromise to try to avoid all out war between the Jews and the Arab states. The Arabs violently rejected UNGAR 181 and even though the Jews were outnumbered 2 to 1 by Palestinian ARabs and backed by 7 Arab armies equipped with tanks and planes, the Arabs lost, And have lost eight times since. How many wars does the Jewish state have to fight and win for the Arabs to accept the Jewish state once and for all?

Jul. 15 2014 10:40 AM
Tom

"European settlers didn't think it was unfair" -- you made that up. that's not even close to being true of All European settlers. I hope that you're not using that in your debate for such violence in the middle east. Just Not True.

Jul. 15 2014 10:39 AM
Seth

"vintage 3000 years" -- oh come on, that has never been true on this planet or we'd have to go back to the borders before Alexander the Great and Marco Polo. And the native americans would rightfully be kicking you out of this country. There's no going back and you can't claim something you left behind 3000 years ago.

Jul. 15 2014 10:37 AM

Simply put - Erlanger HATES Israel and especially HATES Israelis, who he sees as embarrassing, uncouth, pushy Jews.

Period!

This man shouldn't be writing for anyone, even the New York Times

Jul. 15 2014 10:36 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ jgarbuz from Queens

The UN did not give any land to the Jews in 1922. The created the Mandate for Palestine which did not establish any internal borders, only those with neighboring states. The intention was for a SEPARATE Jewish and Palestinian homeland within the mandate, Jordan was specifically excepted.

Jul. 15 2014 10:33 AM
henry from md

Erlanger's remark about Israelis coming from Germany, America, etc is a distortion to put it mildly. More than half of the Israeli population fled from Arab countries and the majority of the rest are Israeli born.
By the way, Jews have a rightful stake in Israel, vintage 3000 years. Where is Erlanger's supposed expertize and why did Brian not challenge him over his glaring misinformation?

Jul. 15 2014 10:32 AM
Mark

It's clear this whole thing is a manufactured crisis in response to the Episcopalian divestment decision. The day the NY Times reported that (strangely WNYC did not mention it) I waited with dread to see what dirty tricks the Israelis would respond with. I thought they would do some kind of smear on the Episcopalians but considering the Episcopalians are rather patrician having produced multiple presidents it would risk a backlash. The next best thing is to prove the occupation "legitimate" by starting up some fresh fighting with the Palestinians. I find it interesting that all these missiles that are being provided to the Palestinians to shoot at Israel can't seem to hit anything with no casualties being reported. They have been given more advanced missiles yet hit less? Sure, they look more scary in photos but appear to be less effective than the sad looking homemade rockets they used to shoot. It's all getting very theatrical.

Jul. 15 2014 10:30 AM
Seth

Glad to know that it's all the League of Nations fault. Not that the UN doesn't share a big chunk of the blame, too. thx.

Jul. 15 2014 10:29 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To whoindatgarden from Brooklyn

Well the natives here had only bows and arrows and the European settlers didn't think it was unfair, although some did sell guns to the "Indians."
IN case you haven't noticed, Hamas not only has tens of thousands of rockets, some big ones from Iran, but also even some drones. So it's no longer only rocks they have to throw.

Jul. 15 2014 10:29 AM

I WAS IN ISRAEL IN 2007 WHEN THIS PUNK, ERLANGER, was leaving his post as Jerusalem reporter and moving on as Paris bureau chief. He got up in front of this small group of Jews and began his remarks by saying "Israel is a failed, lawless state."

Don't believe ANYTHING this little punk says.

Jul. 15 2014 10:27 AM
fuva from harlemworld

The Haitian caller's question underscores the need – every few years when this conflict flares up – to dedicate a segment to the history, in a balanced way, with as much detail as possible, for the benefit of listeners. Items to include: How the Jews came to Israel, how they were expelled, how the Palestinians got there, Herzl, other areas considered for a Jewish homeland, the Balfour Declaration, and so on.

Jul. 15 2014 10:27 AM
Tom

"So they really want..." who the heck is "they"??? All PAs??? Painting everyone with the same brush only makes you look bad. No one truely believes it is factually that way... that All PAs believe in one same thing.

Jul. 15 2014 10:26 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Seth

The UN did not give "Palestinian land" to the Jews. The League of Nations did in 1922 when the not only gave Palestine to the Jews, but gave the Arabs 11 states at that time. In the Ottoman empire the Arabs had no states, nor did the Jews. So giving eleven states to the Arabs and one tiny state to the Jews didn't seem so unfair at the time.
In 1947 the UN wanted to take some land back from the Jews and create an Arab state in the land the League of Nations had promised to the Jews.They came up with a "Partition Plan" but the ARabs rejected that and went to war, as they have 8 times since, and lost all the wars they made on the Jews so far.

Jul. 15 2014 10:23 AM
whoindatgarden from Brooklyn

In a war when one side has stones & the other side has a gun, then the person(s) with the stone to maximize the effect of the stone will do anything and everything to get some sort of a balance in some sense.
Guerrilla warfare http://goo.gl/j4j9 is a way to try and balance the battle being fought.

The whole Israel Palestine situation is a non-sustainable situation, currently Israel relies on huge military aid to sustain their security, how long will the U.S. be able to bank roll that military aid is to be seen.
A United States of Israel & Palestine will and shall form eventually once the peoples of these lands realize it is not going to be possible to survive otherwise. We shall see...

Jul. 15 2014 10:23 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Civilians cannot evacuate Gaza - the borders are sealed - so Israel is completely responsible for Gaza civilian casualties. These are war crimes, plain and simple. "Proportionality" is the universal law of modern warfare and a disproportionate military response is de facto criminal. Israel has suffered no deaths and Palestinians have suffered 150+ ... so there is no justification for strikes against Gaza anymore than there is for shooting kids throwing stones.

Jul. 15 2014 10:23 AM
Seth

Do the PA's want to "destroy" Israel or do they want it around so they can loot it??? -- you can't have it both ways. Pick a complaint, but not several contradictory ones.

Jul. 15 2014 10:23 AM
Tom

"My reply:" -- oh man, you so just made that up. and we wonder why there is no peace. making up stuff like that makes Americans lose all support for Isreal.

Jul. 15 2014 10:21 AM

Why is Israel using F-16s? They have more accurate missiles. An F-16's "wash" can break windows, instilling terror flying low, without even bombing, which is what we know when NATO finally flew against the Serbs.

Jul. 15 2014 10:19 AM
Marco from New York

Mr. Lehrer should read the Hamas Charter (or Covenant)...they are perfectly clear about they want to do to Israel and Jews.

Jul. 15 2014 10:17 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Tom who wrote:

>"Is that really true, or do you just want to believe that it's true??? All PA's? Every last one of them? " <

My reply: Actually no, they need the Jews in order to steal their cars, give them some work, use Jewish hospitals, and so on. So they really want to loot the Jewish state and eventually take over its corpse like buzzards.

Jul. 15 2014 10:16 AM
Seth

Terrorism in Gaza began when the United Nations gave away Palestinian land to Israel.

Jul. 15 2014 10:14 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Bibi, Obama and Kerry must be down on their knees thanking Yaweh for Hamas and their "deadly" Qassam fireworks... a political gift for all concerned. Qui bono?

Jul. 15 2014 10:12 AM
Tom

"The Palestinian Arabs want to takeover and/or destroy the Jewish state."

Is that really true, or do you just want to believe that it's true??? All PA's? Every last one of them? Are you sure that the majority of PA's are not just as peaceful as the moderate Israelis??? Such absolutes are a real part of the problem and so are you.

Jul. 15 2014 10:12 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Terrorism from Gaza began in 1950 and some 400 Israelis were killed by Palestnian "fedayeen" terrorism between 1950 and 1967. So terror from Gaza is hardly anything new.

Jul. 15 2014 10:11 AM
Seth

So sad that the radicals on both sides dominate their moderate majorities. Not sure who to blame more, but no one is right in the middle east. No one can be proud of what's going on over there, not even the supporters of eithr side over here.

Jul. 15 2014 10:09 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Yes, Israel gave Hamas a whole 7 HOURS to reply... an impossible deadline to meet given the conditions though Israel has yet to suffer a single life lost. This whole things stinks to high heaven.

Hamas and Fatah finally unify to try and do a deal and all of the sudden Israel suffers a national "tragedy" and Palestinians also, in turn, suffer one that looks to be another "Cast Lead" part deux. Maybe if Netanyahu hadn't called for "vengeance" he could have avoided this but who says he wanted to avoid this after all? Saves face for Kerry/Obama and solidifies Netanyahu's position.

Jul. 15 2014 10:08 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

I lived in Beersheba and worked outside of Sderot from 1984-1987 when thousands of Gazans used to come into Israel early morning every single day except Saturday, to work and get health care, and then went back to Gaza by bus at dusk. They were clearing on average $15 a day when I, with two college degrees was clearing about $25 and so they were doing fairly well. But later, in 1988 an intifada started anyway due to a car accident.

So there were "open borders" and Palestinians could work inside the Green Line for years until the intifadas began. So this is all malarky. The Palestinian Arabs want to takeover and/or destroy the Jewish state. They are not bashful in saying so in their charter.

Jul. 15 2014 10:08 AM

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