Streams

Westgate Shootings: The Kenyan Diaspora Watches

Tuesday, September 24, 2013

Central business district and skyline of Nairobi. Nairobi is the capital and largest city of Kenya. August 11, 2013 (Steven Bostock/Shutterstock)

Kenyans in East Africa and abroad are watching the terror attack at an upscale Nairobi mall unfold. We hear from some members of the Kenyan diaspora about what they know and how their community is reacting: Dan Aceda, a Kenyan musician currently on tour in the U.S.; Mwende Mwinzi, Kenyan New Yorker and media consultant with the Kenyan Government. Plus: Bronwyn Bruton, Deputy Director of the Atlantic Council Africa Center, discusses the fractured history of the group Al-Shabaab, which is taking credit for the attacks.

Comments [27]

sanych

@I N

1. Yes, the US support of Israel is one of the many grievances that Muslims have.
2. It has nothing to do with any Israeli policy, "occupation", etc. - they have a problem with the very existence of a Jewish independent entity in their midst.
3. There is nothing wrong with this country supporting Israel.
4. Your weasel statements imply that there is, and Edward had correctly sensed this.

Sep. 25 2013 10:34 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Balderdash.

You wrote "a significant factor".

To radical Islamists, what isn't "a significant factor" to stir up murderous Jihad?

- Writing a book of fiction as Salman Rushdie did in his "Satanic Verses"?
- Drawing a cartoon of Mohammed?
- A girl wanting an education - opposed by the Taliban?
- A girl loving a boy that her family opposes?
- A border dispute over ownership of a bit of land called Kashmir - which almost resulted in a nuclear war between Muslim majority Pakistan and Hindu majority India

Independent Noach, you seem to have more in common with the Taliban than I thought.

Sep. 25 2013 10:24 AM

Just a little clarification:

When I wrote, in my previous post, that at least Edward had quoted my words "accurately and in full", I meant, specifically, that:
-he had quoted the _second_ paragraph of my post of 12:52 PM yesterday in its entirety,
and:
-that said paragraph can also stand alone, not dependent upon my first paragraph for proper meaning

Nonetheless, lest anyone miss or conveniently ignore or forget what I had stated in my /first/ paragraph, let me reiterate it, as, in its own right, it is nothing short of critical:

Examining and acknowledging the reasons for and contributing factors toward an event is not the same as justifying it.

Let me go a step further now and point-out that even acknowledging that a given act of violence may have been motivated (at least in part) by /legitimate grievances/ is _also_ not the same as /justifying/ it.

This distinction is, alas, lost on /many/ people.

Sep. 25 2013 06:38 AM

Dear Edward,

Perhaps if I had written that the State of Israel (or U.S. support for it) was somehow "the problem" that accounted-for /any/ of the incidents/events/phenomena that you listed (much less /all/ of them) then your response would have made some sense.

As it is, however, I never so much as even /implied/ any such thing in my post.

My words (which you at least /quoted/ accurately and in full) were quite clear.

I explicitly and exclusively specified the events of **9/11**. (With not even an /implied/ reference to /any/ of what you listed.)

Additionally:
-"including and especially" != /only/ or /solely/
-"at least a significant factor in what led to" != The /sole/ factor or cause

Your response could hardly be more of a strawman.

(And I seriously question whether it was even worth my time to respond.)

A "Gut yohr" and "gut yom tov" to you nonetheless,

Your friend,

I_N

Sep. 25 2013 06:04 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Independent_Noach said:

> Would you actually deny that U.S. policy toward and actions in the Middle East, including and especially when it comes to the State of Israel, was at least a significant factor in what led to the massacres that were visited upon us on September 11th, 2001?

If Israel were "the problem" then the Islamists would be at peace with other peoples and cultures across the world.

And the following would never have happened.

- Kenyan Mall massacre
- Sundays church bombings in Pakistan
- 2005 London transport bombings
- 8 year Iraq/Iran war
- Beslan school massacre
- Dynamiting of the 1,500 year old Buddahs of Bamiyan Afghanistan
- Beheading of the British soldier in Britain
- Nigerian church bombings
- Mosque bombings in Iraq
- Kidnapping and recorded and posted beheadings of innocents
- Family honor killings
- Shootings of Muslim girls for wanting an education
- Public executions of gay teens in the Islamic Republic of Iran
- Current day Slavery in Sudan

Independent Noach, your Moral Compass is broken. Please fix it.

Sep. 24 2013 01:07 PM

@ Bob from Pelham:

Examining and acknowledging the reasons for and contributing factors toward an event is not the same as justifying it.

Would you actually deny that U.S. policy toward and actions in the Middle East, including and especially when it comes to the State of Israel, was at least a significant factor in what led to the massacres that were visited upon us on September 11th, 2001?

Sep. 24 2013 12:52 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

john from office said:

> Shelly, I grew up around the Hasidim and Jews in general, "I am entitled" is the group mantra, I would include them too.

Is is possible that you are confusing "Hasidim and Jews in general" with Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Louie Farraklan, CAIR?

Sep. 24 2013 12:03 PM
sanych

All this talk and not a word about Mohammed's mother.

Amazing...

Sep. 24 2013 11:11 AM
john from office

Shelly, I grew up around the Hasidim and Jews in general, "I am entitled" is the group mantra, I would include them too. Shelly you love to attack me.

Sep. 24 2013 10:54 AM
Nicola from Riverdale

Brian, you are long overdue for a Pulitzer Prize. Thank you for listening to Kenyans about Kenya! I am a returned Peace Corps Volunteer from Kenya living here in NYC. The missing element in world peace is people to people conversation and understanding. Thank you for making this happen on WNYC today. The people of Nairobi are some of the most welcoming, warm and peaceful people I have ever met. We owe it to ourselves and to them to get to know Kenyans better and be better partners for our mutual progress and peace.
All the Best,
Nicola

Sep. 24 2013 10:52 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

John, "the white Dominican," commenting on "low volume discussions" LOL.

Apparently, he has never lived in Washington Heights.

Sep. 24 2013 10:43 AM
Bob from Pelham, NY

Ms. Bruton says basically: "With all due respect to the Kenyan civilians killed, Kenya's actions are responsible for instigating this attack". What?!! Does she feel the same way about the September 11th attacks here? I was in Europe then, and many papers wrote editorials on Sept 12th of the same ilk, saying that U.S. policy on Palestinians caused those attacks. Thankfully, the next day brought an avalanche of readers' letters from ordinary people condemning these editorials. Mass murder of civilians must never be justified, even by pompous academic experts like Ms. Bruton.

Sep. 24 2013 10:32 AM

Lehrer: "...because of Edward Snowden's *REVELATIONS*..."

I'm relieved you didn't say, "Edward Snowden's 'reveals'"....

What's with this use of "reveal", in place of the 'revelation', as a /noun/ that I've heard from BL several times (and at least one guest)?!

Sep. 24 2013 10:31 AM

the moral equivalency i'm hearing presumed between terrorists and kenyan army is worth note. haven't heard it on the show before as a presumption. different rules for africa?

Sep. 24 2013 10:28 AM
Jean from midtown

Thanks Brian for having a representative of Al-Shabaab to the show.

Sep. 24 2013 10:27 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Thanks so much for th e nuance! It's why I'm a dedicated listener and member...

Also, didn't the US depose the elected Somalian president, thereby thrusting the country into further chaos?

Sep. 24 2013 10:23 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

jgarbuz from Queens said:

> The problem of the 4th estate or the "media" is their need to sensationalize and exaggerate everything in order to sell papers, or in this day and age, to get large audiences.

As they say, "if it bleeds, it leads".

Sep. 24 2013 10:20 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Please don't forget this past Sunday's Islamist bombing of a church in pakistan. 81 people died in that attack.

The self proclaimed "Religion of Peace" is certainly an oxymoron.

Sep. 24 2013 10:18 AM

Lehrer: "...neither side represents the people"

That is /exactly/ what I heard As'ad AbuKhalil ( http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ ) say (on a Pacifica show) about /Syria/.

Sep. 24 2013 10:17 AM
k

coincidence? there was just last month a huge water basin discovered in kenya

Sep. 24 2013 10:16 AM
Rae from NY

I wonder about the veracity of the Kenyan government, which has been saying for two days that the mall has been (largely) secured, contrary to appearances.

Sep. 24 2013 10:15 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

The African Union (AU) was formed years ago to keep the large powers out of Africa, to take care of their own African affairs. The AU is not a proxy for the US or NATO. It indigenous attempt to police their own continent as much as possible.

Sep. 24 2013 10:14 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Guess what, America is "remote" to 95% of the people in the world. They have their own music, their own cultures, their own media and their own lives. They envy America for its safety, democracy, prosperity and power. But America is not the center for most people in the world. Every country has its own "center."

Sep. 24 2013 10:12 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

The problem of the 4th estate or the "media" is their need to sensationalize and exaggerate everything in order to sell papers, or in this day and age, to get large audiences. The media is a large part of the problems we have, always sensationalizing and pounding us over the head about how dangerous the world is.That's how the "journalistic" media makes money, by frightening us every day, 24x7. It used to be back in the '50s we only got 15 - 30 minutes of "news" a day, except for those people who read newspapars. Today we are bombarded by media that picks a story and hits us over the head with it nonstop, making us all crazy and paranoid.

Sep. 24 2013 10:10 AM
bernie from bklyn

can we get some real kenyan americans on the phone? not media gurus that work for the kenyan gov't or musicians painting a rosy picture.

Sep. 24 2013 10:08 AM
john from Office

It is time for American Muslims to lead an Islamic reformation. This constant warfare to bring about some great Islamic state in the world is a crazy dream.

Sep. 24 2013 10:06 AM

I remember hearing, already some years ago now, that the stability that Kenya had been known for had already started to be shattered.

Sep. 24 2013 09:57 AM

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