Streams

West Side Highway Road Rage Attack

Wednesday, October 09, 2013

(Steve and Sara/flickr)

Murray Weiss, DNAinfo columnist and criminal justice editor, talks about the ongoing investigation into an attack on an SUV by a group of bikers on the West Side Highway. He also talks about his reporting.

Watch video taken of the attack [warning, it gets a little graphic]:

 

Guests:

Murray Weiss

Comments [136]

Dorian from New Jersey

I was there that Sunday on the Westside Parkway one block before 42nd Street, sitting in traffic when the motorcyclists drove in between the traffic and through the red lights. It was like a very swarm of insects with the rumbling of small engines. They came out of nowhere. Some of the participants, with 3 wheeled vehicles could barely fit in between the cars. It was amazing that no one was hurt before the SUV incident. All we could do is sit in cars and watch. There was a NY Traffic unit on the corner of 42 that witnessed the motorcyclists. I think that some drivers were frightened.

Dec. 03 2013 12:14 PM
kennj from comfy at home

Vincent, I think the issue with the charges come down to who did what to who first. The initial contact between the SUV and motorcycle was a traffic accident. But then the motorcycle mob boxed in the SUV and started to attack it. At that point it became a criminal event and the SUV had right to flee the situation. Note I'm calling the motorcycle group a mob, a gang is better organized and has rules against this kind of behavior.

Oct. 16 2013 10:44 AM
Vincent from Rockalnd County

I am shocked that there has been no discussion of bringing charges against the driver of the SUV for running over a HUMAN BEING, a man with a family of his own, friends, and a job. I can't comprehend how someone can run a truck over a person and no one talks about that. It is clear that the motorcyclists were breaking a variety of traffic laws and subsequently assaulted the driver of the SUV. Those motorcyclists should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Why isn't the driver of the SUV also charged with attempted murder, manslaughter, assault, etc. (I am not a lawyer)? This seems like Florida but without the gun: the guy was afraid for his life so he ran over a defenseless human being with his truck. I thought that WNYC was a forum for balanced perspectives and fairness. The media noise seems so heartless about the guy in the hospital who may be paralyzed for life. I am sympathetic to what the SUV driver and his family experienced as well. Clearly, the sequence of events continued to magnify into many wrong decisions on the part of many. However, I repeat once more, why is the SUV driver not being charged with any crimes? If it is Ok to hurt motorcyclists who else can we hurt without fearing any consequences?

By the way it was frustrating to hear all the incorrect foolish talk about "Hogs" and "Wild hogs," no one got it right yet. HD motorcycles were never designed to be performance machines until recently; some models are designed to handle more nimbly. The term "Hog" probably appeared in the 1960's in reference to HD motorcycles because they were heavy and slow; "hog" was a derogatory term for these machines. In the 1990s improvements were made to the function and handling capabilities of these motorcycles. The yuppies and the "echo" offspring of the baby boomers were nostalgic for this product. Unknowingly, I presume, they referred to their shiny new motorcycles with what they presumed to be an affectionate nickname: "Hog." [The older bikers had been used to stripping all of the excess parts off of their machines to make them lighter and (not very much)faster. They probably looked at the yuppies with their new factory-fresh bikes and referred to them (the bikes) as "Hogs."] The clever marketing department at HD embraced this movement and founded "H.O.G." an acronym for "Harley Owners Group." This is all so stupid that I could puke. I just wanted to set the record straight. However, I do find it fascinating how language usage changes over the course of even a short time span. Is anyone else out there a fan of etymology?

Oct. 11 2013 12:56 AM
ted from nyc

yes, individual motorcyclists can be scary and certainly a gang of any kind can be scary, but let's not forget how scary cars are to motorcyclists.

i'm not excusing the beating those riders inflicted, but as a rider, i can understand their rage. they just saw one of their own run over. even when they aren't running bikers over however cars can be scary.

car drivers who are texting, or putting on makeup or being aggressive, or inattentive can kill us. and yes they are a menace to the responsible car drivers too but a far less lethal one. to protect themselves riders often get very defensive or very aggressive, (esp. in the this city which i'd describe as motorcyclist unfriendly)

Riders like drivers need to be responsible and understand we all have to share the road. And cops need to be there to ensure safety on every parade/event wether it's march of dimes or an organized ride.

Oct. 10 2013 12:50 PM
nanawonder from nyc

saltpeter - potassium bromide= decreased testosterone- everybody just calm down
Take it easy!!!

Oct. 10 2013 12:23 PM
Charlie from NYC

Speaking of safety, do you notice how the guys will wear jeans, ballistic jackets, full face helmets, spine protectors, gloves....yet they want their girlfriends to ride on the back in tank tops, shorts, and non-appropriate for riding shoes. They are definitely not caring of the safety of others.

Oct. 10 2013 11:32 AM
Charles Maraia from West Village

I'm a motorcyclist, but ride a cruiser and would rather be outside the city. I've always been amazed by these guys abilities, however, I find their doing the tricks on the streets dangerous to themselves, their girlfriends on the back, and the general public.
I grew up in queens in the 60's and 70's where drag racing took place on S.Conduit Avenue. A lot of people got hurt and some died doing it.
I am a certified high performance driving instructor for track cars and race a car myself. But I do it in a safe environment at local racetracks. I joined a club years ago, took lessons, and now give them. There are plenty of tracks in the area for these guys to get their ya-yas out, and actually learn to be even better riders. I no longer feel a need to speed on the highways, nor weave in and out like I was racing another car on public roads. It's even more fun when you can do 140mph, and feel safe while passing another car in a turn.
Seeing this video, I could imagine the fear in mr. lee as these guys swarmed him and surrounded his family. Even if he caused the initial accident by bumping the bike that slowed in front of him, stepping out of the car would have been suicide at that point. That undercover or plains clothes man cop should have stopped it right away.

Oct. 10 2013 11:07 AM
superf88@gmail.com

"Two smartish guys in search of a story"

Donning my junior producer hat, following would have been 3 scoops of tasty analysis:

1. Interviewing Brooke Gladstone about the source of the video -- which she presumably has been working on since Sunday as the cover story for OTM this week. (As your guest explained, the video is the cornerstone of this narrative.)

2. "Stop and Frisk" Now that Land Rover drivers have viewed and been beat by psycho cops -- is the chattering class's knee-jerk trust for cops on the droop?

3. We missed a classic BL show thumbsucker on how NYC may not still not quite entirely neutered... The economic moat around 212 and largely 718 is not so complete as to blockade fearsome swashbucklers on Harelys.

Are the tugs already backing up as we speak to pull Battery Park to the burbs?

Oct. 09 2013 06:34 PM
Jon from Manhattan

Another factor is noise. These bikes are (intentionally) very loud, and that is multiplied by the number of them. That alone can be frightening and disconcerting.

Oct. 09 2013 05:30 PM
Lenore from Manhattan

Just finished listening to the audio.

Think about all the folks, including the person just preceding me, who have described similar incidents in their neighborhoods over the years, and nothing was ever done.

The NYPD had the "intelligence" to know that this event was happening, set up checkpoints and diverted the group away from the high-value target of Times Square. Once they were out of there, the NYPD seems to have forgotten about them. How long did it take them to finally arrive at the scene of the beating of the driver? And why weren't they on the WSH all along? There are many questions that must be addressed to the Police Department.

Years ago I lived on 101st Street in Manhattan Valley. The police never came when I called them with various complaints. So I stopped calling. It was said that you could only get them to come if you said that you saw a cop being attacked. Later I moved to a middle-class block on the Upper West Side. One night I saw several cops on my floor, ringing the doorbell of a neighbor. What was wrong? They had gotten a complaint of a dog barking. So I knew I'd come up in the world.

Oct. 09 2013 04:56 PM

I listened to your program with great interest because in October of 2011, while hanging out in Soho with a couple of friends, a very similar bike gang to the one on the WSH descended on the narrow street. We were checking out the wares of the vendors that regularly line the sidewalks. There were suddenly about 150 to 200 bikers pushing, screaming, intimidating, insulting and generally causing mayhem. All of us, including the vendors, were terrified. Adding to their intimidation tactics, most of them were wearing horrific Halloween masks. They rode up on the sidewalks at full speed, I barely had time to move out of the way. My sympathy went out immediately to a young man who was unable to move quickly enough and was hit by a biker and then kicked in the head by the rider right behind. It was such a chaotic scene that I was reminded of the film 'Escape from NY.' Many of us, including store owners in the neighborhood, called the police. NOT ONE EVER SHOWED. This I believe, is the most disconcerting issue. These bikers should never, ever have been allowed to enter the city in those numbers. These bikers are a GANG with GANG mentality, now that we know police officers were involved, it explains volumes! This has been going on for way too long and must be stopped. Mr. Lien and his family were terrorized of that I am fairly sure.

Oct. 09 2013 03:42 PM

@Dr CDH
"...fear is not a justification of illegal activity..." Agreed but the evidence so far is that the illegal activity - brake checking the SUV to clear some highway for stunting -- preceded the fear. Rightly or wrongly the bikers bear some responsibility for their paralyzed brother rider.

Interesting that you bring up Trayvon...If it had been FLORIDA would Mr. Lien have been justified in using deadly force to 'stand his ground'? Careful what you ask for, NY could grant the same or similar authority to 'stand your ground' when surrounded by motorcyclists.

Oct. 09 2013 01:50 PM

This whole thing is outrageous. Not about race, class, DeBlasio or anything else--just testosterone. Boys (however old) behaving badly--and illegally--just because they can.
Is there no stopping this stuff? Why not?? As one commenter noted, it is indeed terrorism on wheels.
And as for the off-duty cops who were in on this caper, they should be fired from the force.
Absolutely unbelievable.

Oct. 09 2013 01:19 PM
jenn from brooklyn

Isn't it crazy how little protection the Range Rover offered? Wow, who knew such an expensive vehicle can be so easily destroyed?

I think Harriet from Newark made an excellent point, maybe being in an SUV gave the drive a false sense of invincibility. If you look closely at the videos, you'll see that other drivers pulled over and frankly, if safety was your top concern, that would have been the smartest move.

Why bother getting into a chest-thumbing contest with a group of motorcyclists who by their actions clearly demonstrate their disdain and disregard for the law as well as fellow drivers?

Oct. 09 2013 12:37 PM
art525 from Park Slope

Colin in Williamsburg- It does seem these days that Harley must give big discounts to AARp members. I don't seem to see anyone under 60 riding a Harley. But let's be honest- there is a bad boy mistique to Harleys which causes tough guy annabes to buy not only bikes but everything in the Harley catelog. It's really kind of embarrassing to see some guy drpaed head to toe in Harley branded clothes driving a Harley edition Ford truck. And while you portray Harley enthusiasts as boy scouts ther is this organization called the Hells Angels? Have yo ever heard of them? Does the name Sonny Barger mean anything to you? I think that is a huge part of the draw of Harleys. It makes you feel like a tough guy.

Oct. 09 2013 12:03 PM

Is it too premature to declare that The City is going "BACK TO ITS PAST" ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/13/nyregion/35-scary-minutes-women-tell-police-of-assaults-in-park.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

''It seems like what happened,'' said one police supervisor, ''was the mob would do one bad thing, and then they would do something worse.''

Oct. 09 2013 11:54 AM
art525 from Park Slope

Again, for the neurosurgeon, Kristofor and fuva, there are videos showing the bikers racing down sidewalks causing pedestrians to scatter, there wis video of bikers racing the wrong way down the highway darting in and out of oncoming traffic and there were something like 200 911 calls before this incident. ANd the ijurd biker was unlicensed having had his license revoked in 1999 and even so had numerous arrests and traffic viplations. Oh and his bike was not licensed. And It's pretty obvious that Cruz was being aggressive in pulling in front of the SUV and slowing down. You are trying desperately to rationalize what was basically terrorism on wheels. Nice try but we're not buying.

Oct. 09 2013 11:51 AM
Colin from Williamsburg, Brooklyn

I wish Brian and Murray would not have such an ignorant conversation on the air regarding the culture surrounding this incident. Not all motorcyclists are the same!!! The cultures are distinctly different. It is like saying all East Asians are the same because they all have almond shape eyes.

Harley Davidson along with a few other marques like Indian are for the most part are large "touring" motorcycles. Most of the motorcycles involved in this incident are Japanese (maybe along with a few high end European marques like Ducati) racing motorcyles. That are largely based on motorcyles used for racing like MotoGP or "Superbike".

Yes they are relatively inexpensive as compared to a high performance automobile. Examples can be gotten between $10,000 to $15,000. And even the smaller engined ones can easily reach speeds of 160+ MPH in seconds flat.

But Brian the culture and popularity of the motorcyles has been around for at least thirty years. And I am 54 years old. Remember the talk about the Kawasaki Ninja back in the '80's???

Please, a bit better research of the subject matter from you and your staff and guest in the future. If you can break down the warring factions and their backers in the Syrian civil war. You can breakdown popular American motorcyle culture. After all these guys are all over youtube.

Oct. 09 2013 11:50 AM
kennj from woodbridge

I've been brake checked by a motorcycle many years ago and I still think about it. what is my responsibility to lock up the brakes on my vehicle and risk getting rear ended? I left up the gas to slow down and missed clipping the bike by inches or less. I was afraid of switching to the brake to fast for fear of overbraking and the car behind rear ending me. I've had cars do this as well. I generally leave more than one car length ahead of me in traffic and other cars will jump in fast then jam on
their brakes to avoid rear ending the car in front. its nuts. Also, since when has the line between traffic lanes become a traffic lane for motorcycles? that ticks me off all the time.
As far as the SUV running over the motorcycles when they blocked him in. As least one news report says the SUV was being vandalized at that point including tires being slashed. Even if the motorcycles blocking the front of the SUV were 'trying to help' the SUV, they were completely stupid. Being stopped on a major highway is a major risk. There is a very high rate of secondary accidents after an initial accident. Get off the road as soon as possible at that point to avoid further problems.
and as far as calling the motorcyclist a gang goes. As soon as the other bikers stopped, in addition to the one that got clipped, they were a gang.

Oct. 09 2013 11:36 AM
dnk from Bed Stuy, Brookyn

I live in Bed Stuy. Motorcycle thugs regularly race down our streets, blow through lights, do tricks (sustaining a block-long wheelie being the favorite) and sometimes ride on the sidewalk.

They are a danger and the NYPD should crack down as severely as possible. I would like to see bikes confiscated and jail time a regular thing. Motorcyclists who are even so much as violating noise ordinances should face a heavy fine and points off of their license.

It's time we stop this insanity.

Oct. 09 2013 11:24 AM
seth

"sustained a beating which did not require hospitalization."

In addition to being beaten, the suv driver was slashed in the face, and would have gotten worse had the samaratan not intervene. the driver bled on the ground (groos pic's of this are easily available online) until taken to the hospital for several stitches.

"any evidence that there was any specific threat or action toward the wife or child"
-- the samaratan was interviewed on the news and he said he had to step in when the bikers started going after the woman with child. his interview can be found online.

where are you getting your news from????

Oct. 09 2013 11:23 AM
seth

"sustained a beating which did not require hospitalization."

In addition to being beaten, the suv driver was slashed in the face, and would have gotten worse had the samaratan not intervene. the driver bled on the ground (groos pic's of this are easily available online) until taken to the hospital for several stitches.

"any evidence that there was any specific threat or action toward the wife or child"
-- the samaratan was interviewed on the news and he said he had to step in when the bikers started going after the woman with child. his interview can be found online.

where are you getting your news from????

Oct. 09 2013 11:22 AM
Polly

Murray Weiss was so ridiculously uninformed! I can't believe you had him as a guest. But his last comment about how most abused women that are killed don't reach out for help was just downright insulting to abused women. Many of them do reach out, and the police end up screwing them over—not responding to calls about broken protective orders, revealing their location to their exes, the list goes on and on. Please read the recent New Yorker article about the problem: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/07/22/130722fa_fact_snyder

Oct. 09 2013 11:21 AM
seth

"sustained a beating which did not require hospitalization."

In addition to being beaten, the suv driver was slashed in the face, and would have gotten worse had the samaratan not intervene. the driver bled on the ground (groos pic's of this are easily available online) until taken to the hospital for several stitches.

where are you getting your news from????

Oct. 09 2013 11:21 AM

Expect some aspiring public office seeker to come out in favor of a program of escalating traffic penalties for "pack" formations riding on public thoroughfares (definitions might be trickey, let's start with groups of more than ten (10) motorcycles riding within 1/2 mile of each other without a permit) and, since it may have prevented last week's tragedy, let's have the NYPD set up some more rolling "stop and check drivers credentials" for these groups.

Oct. 09 2013 11:21 AM
seth

"sustained a beating which did not require hospitalization."

In addition to being beaten, the suv driver was slashed in the face, and would have gotten worse had the samaratan not intervene. the driver bled on the ground (groos pic's of this are easily available online) until taken to the hospital for several stitches.

where are you getting your news from????

Oct. 09 2013 11:20 AM
seth

"sustained a beating which did not require hospitalization."

In addition to being beaten, the suv driver was slashed in the face, and would have gotten worse had the samaratan not intervene. the driver bled on the ground (groos pic's of this are easily available online) until taken to the hospital for several stitches.

where are you getting your news from????

Oct. 09 2013 11:20 AM
seth

"some attempt to sort out what was happening."

the bikers were cursing at the driver and descending on his SUV (he pulled over as is customary). one biker yanked open the driver's side door, and it was clearly not in a peaceful way. the suv driver bolted as most of us would do.

Oct. 09 2013 11:17 AM
Seth

"a car driver hitting a motorcyclist who had clearly deliberately, but gradually, slowed down in front of him, for unknown reasons."
it's not unknown at all. --it's called "break checking" and is a technique used to get cars off the road so that bikers can do their stunts, which are meant to be videoed to utube display.

Oct. 09 2013 11:14 AM
fuva from harlemworld

...Course, what one SHOULD DO and what one WOULD LIKELY DO if an SUV ran over a friend are probably two different things...

Again, courts dates for ALL parties involved.

Oct. 09 2013 11:13 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Dr. Charles David Hunt: Sober analysis, indeed.

Most of the rest of you: Reflexive...

Oct. 09 2013 11:06 AM

Except that the guest, like most "crime beat" reporters, depends on "police sources" for the material information that makes their careers possible (if not lucrative) this story would put the "lie" to the meme that the NYPD is even able to respond to "actionable intelligence" concerning potential, or even on-going, threats to the public's safety.
Perhaps if the rally had been initiated at a mosque by its congregation, the police brass would have taken some kind of proactive surveillance to dampen the bikers' taste for lawlessness.
Given the "grab your ankles and bend over" posture of the various news media in this city, the similarity to the past police failures will probably go unmentioned.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/13/nyregion/35-scary-minutes-women-tell-police-of-assaults-in-park.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

NYPD command personnel should be investigated and given appropriate discipline. What does "comrade" DeBlasio say about the police tactics surrounding, or not surrounding, the incident?

Oct. 09 2013 11:03 AM
Charles David Hunt, M.D. from Hoboken, NJ

I am a WNYC member, retired neurosurgeon, and a motorcycle rider.
There was an early radio report of another prior confrontation by the driver of the SUV toward the motorcyclists.
What I saw on the video, which was started for an unknown reason, was a car driver hitting a motorcyclist who had clearly deliberately, but gradually, slowed down in front of him, for unknown reasons. Multiple riders then stopped, and there appeared to be some attempt to sort out what was happening. The driver of the SUV then took off recklessly, clearly running over another motorcycle and motorcyclist, leaving the scene of at least two accidents that he had caused, resulting in serious personal injury.
He was then pursued by multiple witnesses on bikes. When stopped in traffic, he again drove away recklessly when approached by a motorcyclist on foot, when he had the opportunity.
When finally trapped in traffic off the highway, he had his drivers side window (and apparently back window) broken out and he was dragged out of the car and sustained a beating which did not require hospitalization. I neither saw nor heard any evidence that there was any specific threat or action toward the wife or child.
Subsequent news reports have minimized the dangerous and illegal actions of the driver of the SUV. Trevon Martin aside, fear is not a justification of illegal activity.

Oct. 09 2013 11:00 AM
Kristofor Giordano from Brooklyn

I had to pull over to leave a comment. This entire conversation is ridiculous. The guests comment that he had a hard time believing the bikers were provoked by the SUV driver seems a little presumptuous. I'm sure the bikers were by no means "model motorists" before this incident, but I find it hard to believe the man driving the SUV, feeling intimidated, didn't drive aggressively himself. I don't believe the bikers would have acted this way, in broad daylight, if they didn't somehow feel justified. This by no means excuses the behavior of the bikers, but portraying this as "a nightmare come to life" fails to take into account how incidents like this quickly escalate. The incident was extremely ugly, let's just leave it at that.

Oct. 09 2013 10:57 AM
art525 from Park Slope

In response to Tim Halley and fuva and everyone else who is defending the thugs and making excuses- nonsense. These bikers were out to terrorize. It's the modern day version of wilding. There were hundreds of 911 calls reporting this group for our of control behavior before the incident . I have seen two videos- one of bikers roaring down a packed sidewalk dispersing fleeing pedestrians and another of bikers riding the worng way down the highway going toward oncoming cars and dodging in and out of approaching traffic. Your defense is really misguided. If you were there in Lein's place you would have done what you needed to do to flee. And in the video it is easy to see that Cruz's slowdown was meant to harass the driver.

Oct. 09 2013 10:57 AM
JT Klein from Babylon, NY

Your guest, Murray knows so little about motorcycles or bike culture that he discredits your usually fine program. Where the heck did you find this self-anointed expert?

Oct. 09 2013 10:52 AM
ronni

Why aren't motorcyles (and for that matter trucks and cars) subject to noise ordinances? Was on First Ave the day of the incident as the motorcade went by - decibel level was painful.

Oct. 09 2013 10:50 AM
JIm from astoria

There is so much criminality here: the bikers' manipulating traffic flow, so they have a canvas for their illegal antics; the mob-beating of the motorist. But, what I am disheartened by, is that most of the media attention, including yesterday's guest's, is focused on the biker that beat on the SUV and almost no one has been censuring the SUV driver's behavior, which goes against everything required to get a NY driver's license.

This AM's guest mentioned the SUV first nudged a biker (not caught on the video)? That's EXTREMELY dangerous in itself. Following this, in the tape, he clearly runs over a biker. Regardless of the bikers intentions, the driver should have been putting more space between the bikers in front and his car, even if that meant putting on his hazzards and slowly merging right and putting his car in park. But to run over a man and then pull a hit and run? Can you imagine seeing someone run over your friend, then flee the scene?

I'm hoping the courts throw the book at the bikers, at any cops who joined in with the beating, and at the motorist. I'd like to see the press hold more of a light on the SUV driver and shine a light on aggressive driving.

Oct. 09 2013 10:50 AM
Linda from Queens

It all comes down to this: People with wheels are a menace in this town.

I'm a pedestrian and my safety is threatened by drivers, cyclists and motorcyclists. These are now the tools of aggression by human beings.

Oct. 09 2013 10:48 AM
whoslieingnow

"it was NOT A MAD MAX scenario until the driver BROKE THE BIKER"S BACK! " unless you were there, you cannot possibly know this.

Seems to me it was a Mad Max scenario before the bikers ever got to this one SUV. It had been happening throughout the day.

Oct. 09 2013 10:48 AM
Ted Glass from NYC

I believe "Hogs" are specifically Harley Davidsons.
My problem with many bikers is the noise. Part of the ethic, with both Hogs and "rice rockets" is that the bikes have to be loud. Harleys, with their distinctive rumble-roar. Japanese bikes with their screaming howls. It's bad enough when one bike goes by on your block, but get a few together...
When jet skis first came out, they were incredibly loud, and the bozos who bought them wanted it that way. Over the years, they have been quieted, due to pressue from communities around lakes who suffered from them.
Motorcycles can be quiet as a car, if manufacturers were pressured to make them so.

Oct. 09 2013 10:48 AM
Elizabeth from NJ

While the video of a driver running over a man on a motorcycle is shocking and incriminating, the context here is everything. One can never underestimate what a parent will do to protect a child and/or a loved one, and when threatened, a father's concern can turn primal.

Though it hasn't been front and center in the discussion, race/class here is an integral part of the issue. And the reason this whole episode has gained such momentum is, I think, an underlying sense that the world is coming undone. Anarchy seems to be the order of the day -- in Congress and on the streets.

And I think it should be noted that the first motorcyclist hit by the Range Rover provoked the incident by stopping short in front of the car. I've seen this kind of behavior even by groups of bicyclists in rural New Jersey who often challenge drivers who try to pass -- often by slowing down or straddling lanes on narrow roads.

Oct. 09 2013 10:47 AM

I still don"t know what precipitated the bikers to stop in front of the SUV in the middle of the street in the first place, so not knowing that, this, for me, is still foggy. I Will say UNEQUIVOCALLY, that if this happened to me and my family, knowing that I would never provoke that kind action by the bikers, I would run the #$%^ out of all of them to keep my family SAFE. PERIOD.
I would have driven through the stopped cars, I would have driven down a oneway street to get away from them. I would have done anything in my power to save my family and get them out of harms way. This is not a #$%^& TV show, this is real life, and like it or not, it is live and let die when it comes to the safety of my family. There would have been more than one in the hospital if this happened under the scenario I just laid out.
I am sick to death that this happened. My worst fear. I really hope the SUV driver didn't provoke them to stop in front of him. If he did, then he should be charged with attempted murder, for sure. If not, then EVERY single biker that pursued them are accomplices in his beating and should be charged with attempted murder.

Oct. 09 2013 10:46 AM
karen coyle from CT

Why, in light of the fact the bikers had already disrupted Times Square and were dispersed by the NYPD, they were allowed to proceed to take over a New York State public highway with no police presence?

Has this question been asked of Ray Kelley? Since when does stunt biking take precedence over the safety of innocent drivers?

I understand the ride was unauthorized but why was it allowed at all or not stopped on the highway?? I ride on the WSH often and it would terrify my family to be surrounded by scores of bikers taking over lanes that fellow drivers use safely. This incident was clearly mob violence against not only the unfortunate driver but all drivers.

I want to hear from the NYPD!!

Oct. 09 2013 10:46 AM
steve from upper west side

Oooops -- my bad. Left a comment 10 minutes ago with a mistake -- correcting here.

HOG -- HARLEY OWNER'S GROUP -- has nothing to do with the animal, or police, or table manners, or anything other than a Harley-Davidson Motorcycle rider and owner. These days it is often (wrongly) used to refer to motorbikers of all sorts...

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/HOG/HOG.html Read more…

Oct. 09 2013 10:45 AM
hue from far rcok

so many bikes its scary!! it seems as if these bikes has expanded to the use of more than just of the recreational enthusiast but now for all. As a cheap and effective use of transportaion it sounds ideal for those who need to get around, and whos into that? the "lower class" now thats even more scary. imagine that! now keep imagining as if your in power, able to make change, change ways of obtaining a bike, (kinda like a gun), because motorbikes cause criminal behavior. i see it already, when are we gonna stop the b.s. and go straight to the heart, stop wasting time and money, this country's shine is starting to dim and soon it wont turn on cause we cant pay our bill. happy halloween!

Oct. 09 2013 10:44 AM
Stephan Cox from Manhattan

I've been seeing a lot of comments indicating that the driver of the vehicle should be charged, but consider--he was (as it turns out, justifiably) concerned for his safety. From what I can see, the biker who was run over was one of the ones doing the intimidating--otherwise, he wouldn't have parked his bike DIRECTLY IN FRONT of the SUV, trying to prevent it from moving. Instinct takes over, and you get the hell out of there.

Oct. 09 2013 10:44 AM
MyTwoCents from Midwest

Oh please. These motorcycle "enthusiasts" were chasing that SUV and intimidating him. THe one guy break checked the SUV and got hit. The SUV driver felt threatened for his life (hello, you ever been walking down the block and got surrounded by 35 menacing people?) and ran like hell. Some schlub got run over in the confusion. I have zero sympathy for the guy that got run-over. If he wasn't participating in a mob he wouldn't have gotten hurt. You know what? No one ever ran over me during a mob because I never was hanging out in a mob chasing people. It's pretty simple. There's a lot of lipservice paid to living and dying by the sword and you know what these guys got what was coming to them. It's a tough lesson but maybe next time you won't drive in a group of 50 bent on intimidating people.

Oct. 09 2013 10:39 AM

A) What gave the biker the authority to 'brake check' Mr. Lien?
Nothing

B) Once they had collided what gave the gang the authority to stop Mr. Lien?
Nothing

C) Why did Mr. Lien drive over a guy to get away?
Fear

D) What would have prevented this? A policy that did something other than simply barricade biker gangs away from certain areas.

Oct. 09 2013 10:38 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Jason from Manhattan:

Fine. The response to the SUV running OVER A HUMAN BEING was out of control. But are you saying that a group of bikers is ipso facto so intimidating that Lien SHOULD HAVE RUN OVER A BIKER after rear-ending another, INSTEAD OF STOPPING and calling the cops?

There is NOTHING on that video showing the bikers doing ANYTHING TO HIM -- besides stopping -- after he rear-ends the guy who slowed down...

Oct. 09 2013 10:34 AM
Tim Hailey from Greenpoint

Can't get through on your phone, but clearly the driver of the SUV needs to be charged. I'm amazed and ashamed that he hasn't been. Seriously, why aren't you talking about why he hasn't been charged? I'm listening to this architect right on your show right now and it was NOT A MAD MAX scenario until the driver BROKE THE BIKER"S BACK! You are letting this driver's fear and prejudice allow him to get away with deadly assault.

Oct. 09 2013 10:34 AM
The Truth from Becky

The number of undercover/OFF DUTY cops on this ride, explains the overly aggresive behaviour...testosterone overload!

Oct. 09 2013 10:34 AM
Steve from upper west side

HOG -- HARLEY OWNER'S CLUB -- has nothing to do with the animal, or police, or table manners, or anything other than a Harley rider and owner. These days it is often (wrongly) used to refer to motorbikers of all sorts...

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/HOG/HOG.html

Oct. 09 2013 10:34 AM
Shea

As someone who rides, I can honestly say that motorists in general have little or no respect for anyone on a motorcycle or scooter. And as a rider you are infinitely more vulnerable. One of the things that is taught in motorcycle safety class is that drivers are blind to people on cycles.

That being said the thrust of the discussion here is less about riders per se than it is about pack mentality. The ride was a ‘flash mob’ and did not have a permit to use a public roadway in the fashion they were intending to use it for. That would be the initial offense that everything else springs from. If they had in fact been following traffic laws none of the would have likely happened and we need to focus on that intrinsic fact in this discussion.

The reason I would imagine that this resonates so strongly with many people is that there are repeated instances of ‘wilding’ in urban settings. While cities are for the most part safe, there have been times when packs of people have acted out - the Dominican Day parade comes to mind as well as the incident on the bus in Asia.

I don’t believe a racial component can come into play as much here because the riders for the most part were wearing full face helmets covering their features.

What is catching people’s attention is more a family being attacked by a pack of marauders.

Mad Max anyone?

Oct. 09 2013 10:33 AM
Bob from Pelham, NY

How about a shout out for the NYPD Crime Stoppers hotline (800-577-TIPS), which allowed this tipster to come forward (and for the detectives who man the phones).

Oct. 09 2013 10:32 AM

I've heard there were 6 cops, reported as off-duty. Not undercover.
It sounds like the gang was largely comprised of off-duty police.

I've heard of such swarming behavior by on-duty patrol cars. Sort of a "joke" on the terrified motorist.

Oct. 09 2013 10:32 AM
don from sunnyside

I have been a motorcyclist for over 40 years.

I have seen this type of "gangs" of young men on "rice rockets" every weekend day as I am leaving the city for a ride. Almost everything they do with their vehicles is illegal: blocking traffic, changing lanes illegally, not maintaining lane separation, directing traffic to follow their wishes, doing stunts that no trained motorcyclist. I know what to do: stay away from them and call the police.

The motorcycle is the implement, not the issue, in this case, anymore than kids speeding through traffic with their cars (carists, if you will) are following conduct indicative of the vehicle.

But the behavior is young male gangsterism that happens elsewhere wherever young me gather such as a bar or other event. They feel power and brotherhood as a result of their gathering numbers.

The violence that happened in this case was inevitable as their feeling of power each weekend grows.

I would hope that the police would take more aggressive action to arrest and de-license these gangs, which are by and large spontaneous (they have nothing to do at all with enthusiast clubs.)

Oct. 09 2013 10:32 AM
Jesse Hicks

After the SUV driver ran over and away from the motor bikers, there was a pursuit that lasted about 6 minutes. Why, in all this time, and presumably the car driver's wife calling the police, did they not show? It seems like a long time, in NYC, for no cops to come in a heavily trafficked part of the city.

Also, I feel as though the guest and most people are not judging the SUV driver harshly enough for running over the motorcyclist after the initial bump. I understand he was scared, but fear does not justify reckless behavior that will maim and could have killed the biker. Did something precipitate him running over the biker, besides them stopping him on the roadway? Perhaps a little courage and a conversation could have deescalated the situation.

Oct. 09 2013 10:32 AM
Mary from Brooklyn

Is it OK for bikers to decide to shut down the West Side Highway? The bikers had no right to force people off the road to start with. This doesn't justify the driver running over a biker but he no doubt panicked. It is a sad sequence of events but the blame is on the bikers who had no business clearing the road to start with.

Oct. 09 2013 10:31 AM
The Truth from Becky

Here we go with the stereotyping..."people of color are for the bikers" Facts are facts.

I am NOT going to antagonize a group of motorcycle guys with my family in the vehicle!!!!

Oct. 09 2013 10:31 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

Joe Lhota -

Take a tip from the Democrats: never let a good crisis go to waste.

Oct. 09 2013 10:31 AM
s

the class issue here is that both the bikers and the driver of the range rover are entitled and aggressive. there were just way more of the bikers, who aren't gangsters but certainly got caught up in a mob mentality. owning bikes is an expensive hobby, those guys might be as well off as the range rover driver. the video makes it look like the range rover driver had all kinds of power running down the biker as he did. i'm sure he was scared but all of them are in powerful, expensive vehicles and the adrenaline and entitlement of that is what really made this happen.

Oct. 09 2013 10:31 AM
Mary Ann Smith from NYC

The biker club member that called earlier raised a topic that you didn't discuss on the air. The aspect of the helmet-cam wielding, web-posting, Jack-Ass-type, "lets make a stunt movie" trend that may be the original purpose of this motorcycle ride.

Oct. 09 2013 10:31 AM
Gloria McLean from NYC Manhattan Upper west side

If the cyclists simply wanted to do "street theater" by stopping traffic to perform their self selected (and illegal) tricks, why didn't they have a plan for peacefully directing the traffic around them to get out of the way ? No, aggressive machismo was clearly in the lead with no plan for making it safe for others around them.Surely 100 bikers surrounding you on the West Side Highway, and one of them coming towards you to pick a fight because your car knicked his bike -- this would appear as an act of aggression, a menace. Is this group so stupid (undercover cops and all!) as to not know that?

Oct. 09 2013 10:30 AM
Caesar Romaine from Manhattan

HOG = Harley Owners Group

Applies only to Harley Davidson

These thugs ride "crotch rockets", or "rice burners" or any of a dozen or so derogatory terms for fast Japanese motorcycles.

Oct. 09 2013 10:30 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

This is already having an influence on the mayoral election.

Oct. 09 2013 10:29 AM
john from office

Interesting how the people of color on this board are for the bikers. Proof of the degrading of American life with the browning of America.

The only good part is that the baby survived and he will someday have the children of the bikers pump his gas. He will go to college and experience the american dream, the bikers will be in jail. THERE IS A GOD.

Oct. 09 2013 10:29 AM
John A

Did the SUV driver happen to look alot like John Boehner? Too much spray-tan perhaps?

Oct. 09 2013 10:28 AM

The one thing I will say is this: if you feel threatened in a vehicle, pull over (if you can) and lock your doors. The one thing I realized in this whole incident is the fact that the SUV driver didn't lock his doors.

Oct. 09 2013 10:28 AM
Chantal from NY/DC

I've driven down the westside highway in my range rover HUNDREDS of times with my family, which is why this really hits home. ANY reasonably prudent person would have done EXACTLY what the driver did under the circumstances, fearing for his life and for family's lives. I think his actions were certainly proportionate to the danger he was facing. The last thing he deserves is to be prosecuted in any way.

Oct. 09 2013 10:28 AM
Will Miles

Enough on this topic, please. It is barely newsworthy beyond one day after the event. It is certainly not worth taking this amount of time today. This piece rapidly descended into an inferior talk-radio segment.

Oct. 09 2013 10:28 AM
Julian from Manhattan

Bikes are good on gas - a reason for their popularity?

Oct. 09 2013 10:28 AM

It's a story because the media in cahoots with the police tried to cover it up. They blocked traffic on Astoria boulevard that day and my family almost missed the start of a movie. No police were to be found on Astoria Blvd. and 108th St. as they held up all traffic. We got through because fortunately they allowed a gas truck to go by and followed right behind him. We called 9-11.Cnn had on one of these cyclists initially saying they followed the suv because he was speeding and he "should" have apologized to them. Not doing so "naturally" made them angry. The cnn host did not even challenge this thuggish bullying mentality. The police initially said they had other things to do and policy was to let them do their thing. The police allows this! This made no sense when I heard it and then we find out some are cops themselves! And we find out they're allowed to drive with their license plates covered! Talk about police corruption. Police and media BOTH were trying to cover up this .Now they're trying to equalize the blame when these were bullies harassing the public in general and this guy in particular!. Ray Kelly should be thrown off the force for his policy of giving free rein to cyclists to harass the public.

Oct. 09 2013 10:27 AM
Alex from Brooklyn

I don't think there's been enough emphasis on what this gang actually is. They're basically a lawless group. The bikes are often illegal, and modified to be terrifyingly loud. The riders often don't have licenses and are extremely aggressive. Anyone who has lived in the Bay Area knows about Oakland's infamous "Sideshows," where cars and bikes take over city streets pulling doughnuts and terrorizing neighborhoods. This is that same sort of mob/pack activity, and I've increasingly seen guys like this screeching down Atlantic Avenue and on the BQE.

Oct. 09 2013 10:27 AM
Mac from Manhattan

Your guest is a biased blowhard. Why aren't we talking about how this SUV driver blatantly drove over a human being and almost killed him? Was the fact that he was scared excuse him?

Oct. 09 2013 10:27 AM
fuva from harlemworld

SHUT THESE GROUPS OF BIKERS DOWN, for all I care. I've called cops on the ones zooming down Powell Blvd in the middle of the night ON THE REGULAR...

...But if a vehicle slows down in front of you, you SLOW DOWN TOO OR STOP. Otherwise, you will rear-end, which USUALLY works against you in traffic court...

A bunch of motorcyclists is ipso factor A 'MAD MAX' 'GANG'?

Lien should have stopped and called the cops. Yes, he rode over a biker. But bikers nevertheless should not have smashed his window or beat him. They ALL need court dates.

Oct. 09 2013 10:27 AM

But how does everyone get their own way!
Everyone thinks his needs should be satisfied first and most often.

Oct. 09 2013 10:26 AM
Giovanni from New York

That same day, a group of bikers - probably the same - were on the corner of Astoria Blvd filling up on gas. About 100. They were in the middle of the streets, blocking traffic, taunting motorists, being extremely AGGRESSIVE - cursing and being very comfortable disrupting - this was around 11AM that morning. I got caught up in this mess, also with my family, as this MOB tried to intimidate. I find all this sudden defense-sounding talk of these bikers upsetting. Their demeanor that morning, their aggressiveness, their bravado, them knowing they had strength in numbers was frightening.

Oct. 09 2013 10:25 AM
Dee from Montclair

These giant groups of bikers are in Bear Mountain every weekend. They are noisy and scary. I generally pull over when they surround me. I don't think they should be allowed in state parks in these huge packs. If you are out kayaking on a lake you are surrounded by this horrible noise and smell.

Oct. 09 2013 10:25 AM
Ben from Brooklyn

"Biker" is too broad a term here. It MUST be mentioned that these riders were all on SPORT BIKES. They are a different culture of riders than other motorcyclists. They were out looking to pick a fight. They should not be lumped in as "bikers". It's irresponsible to discuss this story and not mention they are all on sport bikes.

Oct. 09 2013 10:25 AM
Jason from Manhattan

I'm shocked how many people are leaving comments that leer towards the driver of the SUV deserved these events. Would that same logic hold up to a woman who was a rape victim, or a man who got into an argument at a bar only to be murdered in the parking lot?

Road rage is just that. It doesn't matter how it started, but no person should feel an entire gang of people, purposefully displaying their machismo, is out to get them. The ONLY appropriate response from these motorcyclists would have been to call the police, ID the license, maybe at the most aggressive tail the SUV to report its location.

There is absolutely no stance of justice or righteousness that would agree with aggressively running after, cornering, breaking into the vehicle then assaulting another person.

And it's ironic that those with empathy towards the cyclists are demanding a level of justice that was not afforded the driver of the SUV, even though in our system, they will be given the benefit of doubt.

Oct. 09 2013 10:24 AM
Francis Mead from NYC

There has been a real problem in Harlem for months - a large group of motorcyclists and ATV riders storming up and down the avenues, making an incredible noise, breaking the law by riding in the wrong direction, turning int he middle of the street, doing wheelies. It's totally unfair on the inhabitants - it's disruptive and aggressive and unacceptable. On the same day of the incident, a huge group of cyclists and ATV riders stormed down the avenues, occupying both lanes. OK if you want to do stunt riding etc do it - but don't do it in a residential area.

Oct. 09 2013 10:24 AM
The Truth from Becky

BS! Leisurely "Sunday Drive" in NY...half the city has road rage!!

Oct. 09 2013 10:24 AM
Bob from Westchester, NY

Doing nice things for charity occasionally doesn't excuse abusing regular people you deal with in daily life (see Steinbrenner, George M., or as Brian noted every CEO who gets into trouble).

Oct. 09 2013 10:24 AM
PeppermintAndCinnamon.com

Is it possible that some of the motorcycle drivers did not understand in the heat of the situation why the SUV driver had run through them. In their initial misunderstanding of the situation they may have assumed that the SUV driver just recklessly stormed through the motorcycles thus leading to an angry response from the motorcycle drivers. Although they should have just called the police, I think it is a possibly mitigating factor (defense) to account for the motorcyclists reaction.

Oct. 09 2013 10:23 AM
David Burger from NYC

While my situation was different, I can relate to what the Asian man might have felt. Twenty years ago I was driving uptown the FDR on the 4th of July, in stop and go traffic. There was a group of bikers on the highway. While I was stopped, one of them ran into my rear. I think he might have fallen off his bike.
When traffic picked up, I began to drive until the rest of his group, blaming me for the incident, literally forced me off the road onto some grass along the road. In those days before I had a cell phone, I found myself alone and surrounded by a bunch of angry bikers. The situation ended only when the biker who had hit me let his buddies know that I was not to blame.

Oct. 09 2013 10:23 AM
whoslieingnow

"sealed his own fate by hitting a biker and speeding away." The facts do not support this version of events. They show that the car guy pulled over first, was threatened, and only then sped away. But it's clear that the first biker slowed down and caused the initial collision.

Oct. 09 2013 10:23 AM
MikeInBrklyn from Clinton Hill

Shocking!! Car drivers never act like a**&@&les towards indivduals on two wheel vehicles?

As a bicyclist, there have been more than one time when I wanted to bash a motorist for action that threatening my life.

Something tells me this driver isn't all that innocent as he is being made out to be.

I have experience roving bike rides and never once felt threatened. When they roll up, I back off. Pretty simply. I understand the potential damage my car can do to a biker/bicyclist.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
herfay from NYC

I'm afraid that your guest is a buffoon.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
JB

When such a big group of motorcyclists gathers the internet must have been involved. With all the NYPD surveillance of the internet how did they not see this coming? The NYPD should have ended this before it began.

Also it is illegal to pull in front of a car like that cyclist did. It's basically reverse tailgating, aka, reckless driving.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
Hugh from Manhattan Valley/Morningside Park

These bikers are intimidating and a menace in NYC, and was as documented they broke many many traffic laws to slow down the SUV only so they could break more. All the driver did was react as any of us would with his wife and baby in the car.

On your show thus far today, no one has described how they also went after the wife, as the good Samaritan pointed out in his interview.

All any NYer has to do is come to Manhattan Valley on any Fri afternoon to see such swarms of motorcyclists intimidating pedestrians and motorists.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
Caesar Romaine from Manhattan

A) Brian - stop calling it and accident. It was NO accident.

B) Either the cops were "off duty" or they were "undercover". The media conflates these two terms with language like "the off duty detective was under cover..." Not the case.

C) The NYPD has allowed these thugs to over run streets for years. Any Saturday or Sunday they will take over First and Second avenues, the West Side Highway, etc. This is nothing new.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM

Charity runs....ya right

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
John from Brooklyn

Regardless of ANYTHING that happened prior to the incident caught on camera, there's NOTHING that warrants someone being pulled from their car and beaten. Add to this that the man had a wife and child in the car, and every last person who participated should be in jail, no two ways about it. Nothing the man said, did, etc warrants the kind of physical violence that was perpetrated in the incident, and anyone who questions what happened before the cameras were rolling is missing the point.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
TOM LEONARD from New York City

You mention international media interest in this. Why? As a British journalist I would point out the story has a Bonfire of the Vanities quality to it - the yuppie couple in their Wall Streeter standard issue black Range Rover sort of taking the wrong turning and finding themselves among a bunch of bikers. I would never excuse anyone driving over a motorcyclist like that but was there a "one per center" element to the fact that they chose to stop a smart black Range Rover? I wouldn't be surprised if the driver thought so.

Oct. 09 2013 10:22 AM
Karen from NYC

I meant "whom" - typing on I pad and can't see too well.

Oct. 09 2013 10:21 AM
John A

Two facts I'd have to hear if I were on the jury (or to care here, frankly): when in the sequence if events was the first police call made? And was a threat of injury made to the car occupants prior to the car's 'taking off'?

Oct. 09 2013 10:21 AM
marco from New York

Feral underclass running amok....

Oct. 09 2013 10:21 AM
Harriet from Newark

I see road rage every day as I drive to work in NJ. Being behind the wheel seems to empower people who otherwise would normally never think to threaten someone else. I try to remain calm and not engage in pushing my way in front of or trying to block someone from passing me on the right or squeezing in front and not allowing a clear distance between myself an another vehicle. We need to teach restraint and courtesy while driving. I think the bikers were threatening but the driver of the SUV may have felt powerful in his big SUV and may also be at fault for not backing down to the biker idiots.

Oct. 09 2013 10:21 AM
The Truth from Becky

It did not have to happen if...the driver pulled over and called the police instead of "bumping" the biker! That was trouble bought and paid for by the driver.

Oct. 09 2013 10:21 AM

Has anyone spoken to the person who originally posted the video? Was it posted by the motorcyclist who took it? Did that person think it showed the culpability of the Range Rover driver? Does he believe it exculpates the motorcyclists?

Oct. 09 2013 10:20 AM
Karen from NYC

Who is kidding who? The cops were bikers. Maybe they worked undercover from time to time, but that is not what they were doing on the WSH - they were part of the biker club. Macho jerks, and I am on the side of the driver. We have been in the middle of bike packs - it is scary - they are testosterone fueled and try to intimidate drivers.

Oct. 09 2013 10:19 AM
Judy Sulliivan from Weehawken

Why do motorcycles operate under different laws, for example, no mufflers!! The noise is unbelievable. They ride on Boulevard East in Weehawken (not even in groups) and the noise is scary. I've had them come up next to me on the turnpike blasting their pipes and weaving in and out of traffic. It doesn't take 100 bikes to cause an accident.

They should be stopped and ticketed.

Where were the cops in all this. Didn't she call 911 four times!!!

Oct. 09 2013 10:19 AM
Phyllis from Brooklyn

Listening to this person being interviewed, he is EQUIVOCATING about who is responsible for this horrendous attack.

These mob nearly destroyed a family! There are NOT two sides to this!

Other people have been harassed by these gangs.

I am outraged to nausea that a celebrity lawyer thinks that they'll be able to twist this story.

It is massively unfair to this family who suffered a brutal attack at the hands of what amounts to something akin to a lynch mob.
What's the difference when a victim is so outnumbered?

Oct. 09 2013 10:19 AM
Hugh from Manhattan Valley/Morningside Park

These bikers are intimidating and a menace in NYC, and was as documented they broke many many traffic laws to slow down the SUV only so they could break more. All the driver did was react as any of us would with his wife and baby in the car.

On your show thus far today, no one has described how they also went after the wife, as the good Samaritan pointed out in his interview.

All any NYer has to do is come to Manhattan Valley on any Fri afternoon to see such swarms of motorcyclists intimidating pedestrians and motorists.

-Hugh

Oct. 09 2013 10:19 AM
whoslieingnow

"A BIKER WHO WAS TRYING TO MAINTAIN ORDER" --- that's a very large and unproven assumption. Please.

Oct. 09 2013 10:18 AM
Bob from Westchester, NY

@ Reina: News reports said that the wife called 911 several times while her SUV was being chased up the highway, and again when it was blocked by traffic and surrounded on the local street.

Oct. 09 2013 10:18 AM
fuva from harlemworld

The STEREOTYPES ARE ALL OVER THIS. It's pathetic.

Oct. 09 2013 10:18 AM
pliny from soho

during the Dinkins administration
there were similar gangs having rallies
around downtown Manhattan at night

Guiliani stopped them by setting up roadblocks
and arresting them on whatever possible violations
and confiscating the bikes

like him or not it did stop them

Oct. 09 2013 10:17 AM
antonio from baySide

It has nothing to with race, more about class, and with that the lack of respect of public spaces. People are free to be any kind of 'enthusiasts' they want to, But I find it strange with the current boom in the tech field the said 'bike enthusiasts' haven't traded such a visceral pastime with learning how to code...

Oct. 09 2013 10:17 AM

Wasn't road rage it was mob rule violence.
Brian not racial at all, don't go there.

Oct. 09 2013 10:16 AM
Seth Pecksniff

"Welcome to a sneak preview of Mayor DeBlasio's New York City."
That is just stupid. DeBlasio isn't even in office yet. This is really a prime example of the true Bloomberg city. Bloomberg is the one still in office. It can't be anything other than that. But will we remember in 3 threes that all this started way before Deblasio took office. You can't start trying to pin stuff on someone who isn't even in office yet. How friggin absurd!

Oct. 09 2013 10:16 AM
suzinne from bronx

The clueless driver of this SUV sealed his own fate by hitting a biker and speeding away. Why are criminal charges not being pursued against HIM?

As a pedestrian afraid for my life with the way people are driving these days, this story infuriates me. Watched the video, and the driver of SUV was driving very erratically, and that always endangers the lives of bikers more than everybody else on the road.

Hope they sue the crap out of this guy.

Oct. 09 2013 10:15 AM
NYC Biker from NYC

Brian, can you (the media) PLEASE stop calling them bikers? Bikers ride Harleys...

Oct. 09 2013 10:15 AM
fuva from harlemworld

JAKE, the door opening, the window smashing, the beat down were out of control. But they happened AFTER the SUV drove OVER a human being...

Oct. 09 2013 10:15 AM
DEE

I wish to say, I don't feel sorry for this guy. The bikers were not causing anyone harm, he bumps a guy on a bike he runs over someone on a bike. Why isn't he the bad guy??? I don't believe in voilence. But he would have drove off and I doubt the guy would have called 911 for the biker he ran over. I'm not sorry he got a beating.

Oct. 09 2013 10:15 AM
Christine Gabriela from One Penn Plaza

The guest speaker forgot to mention that the biker BRAKE checked the Range Rover - it was on the helmet video.

The biker that is in pretty bad shape should have never been in that situation - bikers drive up and down the WSH as if the police do not exist. Andrew Lien is not to blame, he was defending his life and his family.

The family of the biker that is in the hospital is painting him as a saint - the facts are he was harassing a driver on the highway.

Oct. 09 2013 10:13 AM
Raina from Queens

Were there any 911 calls during the incident by the family, bikers and/or witnesses?

Oct. 09 2013 10:13 AM
Rick from NYC

Bottom line: in MAINSTREAM society, the benefit of the doubt will ALWAYS go to the FAMILY over the motorcycle "gang," irregardless of who's to blame.

Oct. 09 2013 10:13 AM
Angela Twist from Smithtown, NY

Who gave the video? Was it given to the press? To the police?

Oct. 09 2013 10:13 AM
Leah from South Harlem

What I would like to know is WHAT ABOUT the rogue bikers roaring up and down lower Frederick Douglass Blvd., in broad daylight, without heeding red lights, doing wheelies, not wearing helmets. I have NEVER seen any action against them. We have pedestrians everywhere of course, including kids from the numerous local K-12 schools.

Oct. 09 2013 10:12 AM
fuva from harlemworld

So, Mr. Lien rear-ends a biker. The bikers stop to deal with it -- some, getting off their bikes to do so...And Mr. Lien freaks out and DRIVES HIS SUV OVER A BIKER -- A BIKER WHO WAS TRYING TO MAINTAIN ORDER...

These MULTITUDES (better word than "pack", "animals") need to be handled. No doubt.

But the reporting on this has been HORRENDOUSLY UNBALANCED. I mean, it's "wilding" all over again.

Should the driver have been arrested?

Oct. 09 2013 10:12 AM
Jake from NYC

Brian, your guest left out the part on the West Side Highway where the biker OPENED THE ROVER'S DOOR! That's important to why Lien sped off!

Oct. 09 2013 10:09 AM
Inquisigal from Brooklyn

This motorcyle gang has been a menace for a while now, and it is indeed shocking nothing has been done. I live in Bed Stuy, and had an incident with them in the past month. 30 riders came down an avenue near my block as I was walking my dog. Just as I was about to turn the corner on to the sidewalk of the avenue, almost all of the riders rode up on to the sidewalk to circle around a couple of teenage girls who were walking on the sidewalk. They then turned around and headed back toward my block, where I was plastered against a fence with my dog, who is afraid of motorcycles. I started screaming at them to get off of the sidewalk, and one guy said "I live here!" as if living in the neighborhood entitled him to ride a motorized vehicle on a sidewalk with 30 of his friends. I screamed back that I did too, get off of the sidewalk. As soon as they sped away, I immediately regretted that I'd yelled at them. I wouldn't go out for days at that same time of day, worrying that they would be on the lookout to beat me up.

Many of these bikes have no headlights, and are not registered to be on the street, and they have no mufflers, and do tricks down the center of busy streets. They also don't give a sh*t about anyone but themselves.

Oct. 09 2013 10:08 AM
G from NYC

Brian, can you please take a look at this from Self Defense stand point. It appears to me that the driver perception of possibly injury caused him to hit a motorist which is deadly physical force. I understand the biker he hit was paralyzed (not sure if he really is injured?).

Can people chase someone who just used deadly physical force and try to take him into custody.

Is there any Zimmerman comparison.

Oct. 09 2013 10:07 AM
Henry from Brooklyn from Brooklyn

Take a look at the trailer for "12 O'clock Boys" about bikers taking over the roads. Can't allow this to happen here.

http://12oclockboys.com/

Oct. 09 2013 10:07 AM
Kaili

FYI...interview with "Hollywood Stuntz" http://youtu.be/7zpizYzCvv8

Oct. 09 2013 10:07 AM
Brenda from New York City

As if this incident wasn't horrifying enough, we now know that (at least) two of the motorcyclists involved were police officers. New Yorkers don't expect the NYPD to be saints, but they do expect them to not be inciting riots and terrorizing families. The NYPD needs to provide an explanation, an apology and an assurance that serious measures have been taken to prevent this from every happening again. http://heresheisboys.com/2013/10/09/good-cop-bad-cop/

Oct. 09 2013 10:06 AM
fuva from harlemworld

These bikers ride up at down my block on the regular. And this show of testerone IRKS ME TO NO END. But what's with this notion of them being ipso facto intimidating?

Oct. 09 2013 10:06 AM
Joe from nearby

These packs of high speed bikers have been infesting our highways for years. They do high speed lane-splitting all the time- they've almost hit my car & freaked out my family. Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a gang called "Ruskie" something-or-other basically intimidating everyone around them.

They're out of control. No cops ever seem to pull them over. Now we know why.

Oct. 09 2013 10:04 AM

@MartinC - Your suppositions about this issue are 180 degrees wrong.

I don't know enough about the events that led directly to the confrontation between Hollywood Stuntz and Mr. Lien, but I do know that the NYC police had barricaded and blockaded this gang away from the site of their Times Square event of one year ago.

Let me say it more clearly, THE NYPD KNEW about the ride planned for that day and actively prevented them from doing their thing in Times Square. Their frustration would pop up in some other form is equivalent to 'go sh*t somewhere else!' attitude by the commissioner and mayor. I don't think of that as good policing.

Oct. 09 2013 10:01 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Brian, Can you PLEASE recount the facts, in sequence.

Oct. 09 2013 10:01 AM
john from office

Shelly, most of these "thugs" were Dominican American and the hero bystanders were also Dominican American. Some day we will rule over this land.

Oct. 09 2013 09:37 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

Last time I checked, this happened under the watch of "stop and frisk" Bloomberg and Kelly - ridiculous, why not blame Dinkins too.

I wasn't there, I don't know how this started. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Bikers should have never taken the law into their hands.

However, the way parts of the media, especially - my favorite fish wrap, the NY Post have gone out of their way to portray the mostly black and Latino bikers as "savages" and "thugs" - as they and the NYPD have given the SUV driver, a free pass, no pun intended, for recklessly running over a biker, that's currently paralyzed, is sadly not surprising.

Oct. 09 2013 08:56 AM
john from office

I find it interesting that this new generation with facebook and the internet, are not smart enough to turn off the camera. If you insist on filming your entire life, that video will come back and bite you on the tush. Hey Kids, if you are going to do a crime, turn off the google glass and don't post the video on line.

Unfortunatly Martin is on to something re: DeBlasio's New York. But, Martin lay off Obama, he is dealing with suicidal maniacs, wearing explosive vests. Teodoro Cruz needs to head back to Canada and run for office.

Oct. 09 2013 07:51 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

Welcome to a sneak preview of Mayor DeBlasio's New York City.

Stunned? Upset? "You ain't seen nothin' yet."

As Obama is learning: leadership in a dangerous world is more than just showing up, looking pretty and acting cool.

Oct. 09 2013 07:34 AM

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