Streams

Melissa Harris-Perry Talks #YesAllWomen

Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Melissa Harris-Perry, host of her own weekend MSNBC show, talks about the latest political news, the runup to the midterm elections, and this past weekend's #YesAllWomen campaign, which served to shift the spotlight in the aftermath of the Santa Barbara shooting to women's experiences of everyday misogyny.

Below: A Visualization of the Spread of #YesAllWomen (view on web)

Guests:

Melissa Harris-Perry

The Morning Brief

Enter your email address and we’ll send you our top 5 stories every day, plus breaking news and weather.

Comments [84]

Manny from Womynville, Northampton, MA

What's wrong with us nerds is that we listen to and watch programs on which serious people who purport to have university educations and are qualified to teach at universities(though maybe Tulane finally came to its senses) get booked to come on the air and argue with the seriously mentally ill and deceased about the irrational, tragic, and murderous actions that week. You can imagine Melissa coming on the air on 9/12 to argue if we should trust pilots after they smashed the world trade center. When you point out to her that those guys broke into the cockpit and killed the pilots who were supposed to fly the plane she bats that aside and says... "what about the CULTURE that allows men to sit at controls and fly big metal thingies through the sky. Let me apply Foucaltian deconstruction to this!!!"

The thought that the well off college going son who drove a BMW and whose father was an assistant director of HUNGER GAMES and had ALL of his teeth is just another "nerd" who can't "git da wimmins" and who goes on a shooting rampage where he shoots FOUR MEN after writing a 150 rumination on personal slights dating back to his TENTH BIRTHDAY has ANYTHING to do with guys going around like Charlie Brown moaning and groaning about not having a decent social life is LAUGH RIOT FUNNY. If feminists can't find anyone else still willing to talk to them besides dead mental cases and NPR hosts then they need to notice the four fingers pointing back at them.

The YesAllWomen hashtag is a great opportunity to vent that earth based biology has put "male" and "female" homo sapiens in the odd position that we find ourselves. Other than that forcing a smile onto Charlie Brown's face and screaming at him that he's a pervert for observing the little red headed girl pass by the hedge while stuffing ritalin and saltpeter down his throat is not a solution that's going to work long term. We should KNOW this. After all... wasn't Melissa's last meltdown over bell hooks's attempt to link Boku Haram to the same sense of male entitlement. You know... all those western world dads who drop their daughters off each fall at the schools where both bell AND Melissa draw their overinflated salaries have the SAME attitude as a bunch of ISLAMIC FANATICS who show up at a school and kidnap the entire female student body. Those guys are just run of the mill sexists... and HOMOPHOBES.. after all when they show up at a school for boys they just KILL them never once thinking that there might be a gay community in CHAD.... well you get the idea. Men are just inconsiderate jerks.. even the ones who are too considerate to successfully impose on a woman for succor!

Jun. 02 2014 12:59 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ NYC from NYC

Yes, pretty funny you should mention that my fellow "male nerd" ... Here's a video which neatly and concisely obliterates the lies and fraud/manipulation behind the "video games are sexist" nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWxAljFlb-c

Jun. 01 2014 08:49 PM
NeckBearLord

The Ironic Idiocy Behind #YesAllWomen

http://neckbearlord.tumblr.com/post/87320211320/the-ironic-idiocy-behind-yesallwomen

Jun. 01 2014 02:50 AM
NYC from NYC

"So, a question, to my fellow male nerds:

What the fuck is wrong with us?

How much longer are we going to be in denial that there's a thing called 'rape culture' and we ought to do something about it?

No, not the straw man that all men are constantly plotting rape, but that we live in an entitlement culture where guys think they need to be having sex with girls in order to be happy and fulfilled. That in a culture that constantly celebrates the narrative of guys trying hard, overcoming challenges, concocting clever ruses and automatically getting a woman thrown at them as a prize as a result, there will always be some guy who crosses the line into committing a violent crime to get what he 'deserve,' or get vengeance for being denied it."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

May. 31 2014 12:43 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ alyxdesigns

You wrote:

"I'm not even going to answer the slivers of evidence you are clinging to."

What a DEVASTATING intellectual broadside, my arguments laid waste, Ooooh, it's a wicked burn! Let me pull myself together here for a moment...

Do YOU realize that your parting post says nothing other than "I know you are but what am I"? Go back to twitter and tell everyone how the mean man made you look silly and all the "downvotes" he had and how it's not your fault because the "patriarchy" made you think being dumb was cool... ROFL.

I wrote this many posts ago and it is still as close to the truth as you can get:

"Look it's all real simple. The hashtag "yes, all women" is a simplistic idea designed to achieve a simple end, which it has already, namely creating friction and political capital.

The notion that "yes, all women" experience misogyny is NOT, for instance, like saying "yes, all women" experience menstruation because there is no moral implication that men are the reason they experience menstruation and deserve to be blamed for that discomfort. It is not some sort of honest "woman to woman" conversation that is intended. The hash tag has been crafted specifically to bring out the WORST internet trolls (in order to reinforce the point by using that small minority of sickos to smear men in general) and make men feel attacked because no man with even an ounce of self respect would tolerate for a moment being compared casually to a misogynist, rapist or someone who sexually harasses women.

The effect is that most men feel angry and distance themselves from the conversation while woman feel that men don't care and this drives them into the arms of radical feminist ideologues(gender/queer) who manipulate
their feelings of anger and resentment for their own purposes. Radical feminists started the fight to drive men and women apart, without separating normal men from normal women there is no constituency for their views other than their own twitter/tumblr echo chamber."

May. 29 2014 04:52 PM

Mr Bad -

I'm not even going to answer the slivers of evidence you are clinging to. You do realize that your studies are a tiny sliver minority voice compared to the overwhelming reality that women are battered, attacked, humiliated and hurt daily? Women attacking and abusing other people is also systematic of a masculine culture where violence is an acceptable way to win arguments.

It really must be sad for you that you live in a world where these tiny beliefs you hold are waning and the only place anyone really listens to you are dark corners of the internet.

I'm sorry, but your soap box is gone. And I'm done trying to talk to you. You are beyond help. And no one cares what you say - based on all the downrates you've managed to accumulate in every single one of your comments.

Keep your fingers in your ears, google all the little tiny pathetic bits of evidence on the internet about how the womenz are evil and feminists are ruining the world.

I personally would not enjoy living my life keeping my fingers in my ears screaming 'LALALALALALALA' when everyone around me is trying to tell me the truth. Doesn't suit me.

It must be sad to watch your power slipping.

Bye now! :D

May. 29 2014 03:56 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Just a quick reminder that actual scientific (as opposed to psycho-feminist propaganda) research has shown that women are just as aggressive as men if not more so.

"More surprisingly, women are also just as likely as men to express hostility—in this case physically—in the context of a romantic relationship. The popular stereotype of a domestic abuser is a man who habitually hurts his female partner. Yet research by Archer and sociologist Murray Straus of the University of New Hampshire calls this scenario into question. Surprisingly, their analyses demonstrate that men and women exhibit roughly equal rates of violence within relationships; some studies hint that women’s rates of physical aggression are slightly higher. This apparent equality is not solely a result of women fighting back, because it holds even for altercations that women start."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-men-the-more-belligerent-sex/

May. 29 2014 03:27 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ alyxdesigns

WOW. Thanks for this last post, I think you've made all my points for me.

You wrote:

"For all recorded history, we never listen to women. For thousands of years, they never had a voice."

Nothing could be further from the truth. What an unbelievably ignorant, stupid statement. From Theodora to Victoria to Olga to Thatcher there have been countless female leaders who exercised power themselves and indirectly through their partners. Because you are an ignorant fool and have no education outside of "gender studies" you probably know less about history and so even less about women's history than I do. Sad.

You wrote:

"Its 2014, and there you are - yet another person who won't listen to 50 percent of the human population."

IS ThAT WHO YOU ARE? You and your Misandrist agenda twit group are 50% of the human population? NO, you are actually a tiny shrill minority within a tinier minority of entitled white radical feminists. Nice try though, I understand that you DO SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN, THAT IS YOUR CLAIM? Again, you're deluded.

You Wrote:

"That the number one killer of women is men?
And the number one killer of men is heart disease?"

What? I don't even... the number #1 killer of men AND women is heart disease/cancer. That hasn't changed in years. How did you get this stupid?

http://mchb.hrsa.gov/whusa13/health-status/health-indicators/p/leading-causes-death.html

As for your completely idiotic assertion that "all women are afraid to walk in the streets at night, but not all men are" I think it goes a long way to showing that your just playing childish word games. It depends on the street and the man or woman, obviously. Again, you do not speak for anyone but yourself.

You're an embarrassment to misandrist trolls. Your whole campaign has served to expose the deep hypocrisy, inanity, and moral bankruptcy of a campaign which is simply a sham attempt to demonize men and trivialize tragedy in the service of a misandrist political agenda. If anything you have done more to reveal the compulsive hatred at the heart or radical feminism then I ever could.

The funny thing is that while you foolishly, ignorantly claim to speak for 50% of humanity you're also simultaneously trying to smear the OTHER %50 of humanity... You really are going for a "lack of humility" record aren't you? Let's see how far that gets you ... I'm guessing not very.

May. 29 2014 03:17 PM

@Mr. Bad

Insulting me doesn't help. If anything, it merely proves a valid point. Instead of engaging in dialogue, you'd rather attack and belittle me. That says something, doesn't it?

For all recorded history, we never listen to women. For thousands of years, they never had a voice.

Its 2014, and there you are - yet another person who won't listen to 50 percent of the human population. Denying that there is a problem, even though people who are affected are screaming at you.

Is that really a position you want to be in? Its not too late to change your opinion and be a better person, instead of someone defending a deeply toxic and disgusting system that has lead to the deaths and assault of people (both men and women) worldwide for not fitting into a society ruled/controlled by masculine ideals.

Imagine how far we'd be if we actually listened to 50 percent of the human population all these years. Imagine how far the human race would be in terms of technology and arts if some people didn't shove their fingers in their ears and deal with the problem as it exists.

Do you really want to be the people who refuse to acknowledge that there is a real problem? Even when 11,000 women were killed in 10 years in America alone (compared to half that number of soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Combined)? Or that 1 in 4 women are brutalized or hurt (compared to 1 in 16 men)? Or that all women are afraid to walk in the streets at night, but not all men are?

That the number one killer of women is men?
And the number one killer of men is heart disease?

Really. Where do you want to stand?

May. 29 2014 01:53 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Maybe there is an easy explanation for the prevalence of male sexual violence? Maybe not the one you thought?

"Finally, there is an alarmingly high rate of sexual abuse by females in the backgrounds of rapists, sex offenders and sexually aggressive men - 59% (Petrovich and Templer, 1984), 66% (Groth, 1979) and 80% (Briere and Smiljanich, 1993)... Male adolescent sex offenders abused by "females only" chose female victims almost exclusively."

"86% of the victims of female sexual predators aren't believed, so the crimes go unreported and don't get prosecuted.Considering these facts, arrest statistics for child sexual offenders by gender are meaningless.

From "The Sexual Abuse by Women of Children and Teenagers"

UK TV programme - Panorama - BBC1 - 10 pm Monday, October 6th, 1997"

"In September 1997, she was making her first court appearance and I remember the first time I saw her I was immediately flabbergasted because she looked so innocent. She was so slight, small in her build, and so young, and I thought, 'she can't be a sex offender, it's impossible.'"

- Reporter Cheryl Jahn, speaking about convicted sexual offender Crystal Henricks"

May. 29 2014 05:28 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Families of Newtown victims say Adam Lanza’s mom shares blame for raising a murderer:

“It’s clear that he had mental illness and intervention was not made,” she said. “And there was not responsible gun ownership, either.”

Connecticut officials released a 48-page report this week that revealed startling details about Adam Lanza, including his violent thoughts and obsession with the 1999 Columbine shooting. It also painted his mother as an enabler, who knew her son was troubled. He preferred to communicate with her by email — even though they lived in the same home...

Nancy Lanza failed to restrict his access to her home arsenal of guns, knives and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition. All of the firearms used in the shooting were legally purchased by Nancy Lanza.

All of the firearms used in the shooting were legally purchased by Nancy Lanza.

All of the firearms used in the shooting were legally purchased by Nancy Lanza.

All of the firearms used in the shooting were legally purchased by Nancy Lanza.

All of the firearms used in the shooting were legally purchased by Nancy Lanza.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/newtown-families-blame-adam-lanza-mom-raising-murderer-article-1.1531903

May. 29 2014 05:05 AM

"Each all-too-frequent time there’s a mass shooting, someone notes that all but one in the past 30 years have been committed by a man. And if that weren’t enough to make us have a 'WTF, men?' conversation, women are disproportionately the victims of male violence. When Adam Lanza made a target of Sandy Hook Elementary School, he went after not just children but the female-dominated field of early educators. (All six adults killed were women.) And women experience violent backlash for sexual rejection on an individual level, too; in the wake of Isla Vista, news stories about them are being compiled on Tumblr. (When women are murdered, a partner or spouse is the killer 38 percent of the time, according to WHO, compared to just 6 percent of the time when men are killed.) At a certain point, we were bound to stop caring about the individual psychosis afflicting each man who chooses to kill, and start wondering why they so often end up going after women, such as the Connecticut teenager who was stabbed to death last month after rebuffing a classmate’s prom proposal — why a few men (not all men) make the world unsafe for, yes, all women."

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/05/now-is-a-good-time-to-talk-about-misogyny.html?mid=twitter_nymag

May. 28 2014 08:07 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Oh hey waddya know, in TODAY's NEWS, another "activist" and recipient of the "World's Children's Prize for the Rights of the Child" and numerous sycophantic write-ups in all the big papers unmasked as a sick fraud and profiteer of human misery. Just another woman who will use and abuse children to get what they want while mainlining a public facade of shamelessly cultivated victim hood. Who'd have thunk it? Maybe you need to do some home work, babe...(from Gawker)

"Somaly Mam, an internationally renowned human rights activist and Oprah-approved author, resigned from her eponymous foundation this week after a damning Newsweek exposé suggested she lied on numerous occasions about instances of sexual abuse and rape.

According to the Newsweek story, Mam encouraged young women to fabricate stories of sex trafficking and may have lied about details from her own past..."

http://gawker.com/sex-trafficking-activist-accused-of-lying-steps-down-1582950856

May. 28 2014 07:31 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Oh hey waddya know, in TODAY's NEWS, another "activist" and recipient of the "World's Children's Prize for the Rights of the Child" and numerous sycophantic write-ups in all the big papers unmasked as a sick fraud and profiteer of human misery. Just another woman who will use and abuse children to get what they want while mainlining a public facade of shamelessly cultivated victim hood. Who'd have thunk it? Maybe you need to do some home work, babe...(from Gawker)

"Somaly Mam, an internationally renowned human rights activist and Oprah-approved author, resigned from her eponymous foundation this week after a damning Newsweek exposé suggested she lied on numerous occasions about instances of sexual abuse and rape.

According to the Newsweek story, Mam encouraged young women to fabricate stories of sex trafficking and may have lied about details from her own past..."

http://gawker.com/sex-trafficking-activist-accused-of-lying-steps-down-1582950856

May. 28 2014 07:31 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ alyxdesigns

You're not a feminist but a misandrist, you have nothing to say other than you're scared or men and hate them. You keep shouting "misogyny" like a broken record because you're just an entitled loser... this whole campaign is designed to promote your political agenda and has zero intellectual or moral weight. You're pathetic.

May. 28 2014 07:16 PM

Mr. Bad from New York -

Come back to me after you've done your homework.
https://www.upworthy.com/a-ted-talk-that-might-turn-every-man-who-watches-it-into-a-feminist-its-pretty-fantastic-7

All I'm reading from your comment is 'Its everyone's fault except for the men perpetuating the violence, the rapes, and the attacks'. You couldn't be more wrong, my dear.

May. 28 2014 01:46 PM

Look at how quick the guys are to say anything and everything else is the problem. BUT misogyny, woah, that doesn't even exist, it doesn't matter, we shouldn't be talking about THAT. Gee, why not? You might have to face yourself in the mirror and see something ugly?

May. 28 2014 01:27 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

I think the bottom line is clear, "Yesallwomen" is nothing more than a covert attempt to demonize men by a hostile minority of radical internet trolls. They hate and fear men and have nothing constructive to offer other than furthering their own agenda by turning people against one another.

We ALL suffer because of a relatively small minority of sickos and predators who, BTW, are often women. Does that meant that women accept child emotional, physical and sexual abuse? Because it's quite common for women to abuse children. Women more often care for children, both their own and the children of others and the headlines are full of horrific stories of child abuse perpetrated by women everyday. Do we hashtag that? No. We accept that CRIMINALS and SICKOS exist, we cannot do anything other than punish after the fact. And we don't try and profit politically off of that or other people's misery and tragic loss.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/mother-faces-attempted-murder-child-abuse-charges-shooting-11-year-old-son

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mother-jailed-after-threats-to-kill-in-sex-abuse-probe-30306692.html

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/police-mom-pushed-critically-injured-3-year-old-ag/nf42P/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-northwest-side-woman-charged-in-3yearold-daughters-death-20140520,0,4885086.story

and on and on and on and on and on....

Here are some headlines off of TODAY'S news:

May. 28 2014 07:59 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Game, set and match.

@ alyxdesigns

You wrote:

"If it was such a small minority of sickos, then why is it that every single woman (myself included) I have ever encountered refuse to walk outside alone without wearing headphones or sunglasses to avoid contact with men? Or, the ones that don't, end up being insulted, slighted, sneered, catcalled or approached by men when they clearly want to be left alone?"

Not a gender queer political statement at all, totally normal... ROFL. This is all a "totally normal", if you fear and hate men this is everything you ever wished for...

May. 27 2014 11:27 PM
Mark

I'm surprised there haven't been any religious voices in the conversation. In the past the Christian god loved all men but now in a secular world they have no recourse but to turn to women for love and not everyone will be chosen.

I think an old Jamiroquai song gives the best response to this whole situation with the line "Love is war, and war will never be the answer".

May. 27 2014 11:07 PM

'Victimhood is a crutch for the emotionally disabled.'

Victim blaming is a tool to accept the worst of humanity.

May. 27 2014 09:41 PM

Victimhood is a crutch for the emotionally disabled.

(... and the 21st century replacement for the church.)

May. 27 2014 09:07 PM
Question

Why is 50 Shades Of Grey a best-seller? Who would read such a thing?

May. 27 2014 09:04 PM
Donatien Alphonse François

That's what makes it interesting. He was too shy to approach women. Maybe if he had catcalled women and stood on the corner doing some "hey ma, how u doin" stuff he would have got laid. I'm sure some chick out there would have been into his marvelous sunglasses, shirts and BMW. I think that's why women take so much glee in ranting about the guy. It's a way to rub it in that he couldn't get laid even more, a last sadistic pleasure from a nerd's virgin corpse. Sort of like on the flip side the lonely chick desperate for love who wonders why no one ever calls her back the next day when of course it's because there's a bit of enjoyment in denying someone what they desperately want. Then she will go on the internet and rant about how all men are pigs and just want sex or whatever. I think that's what great literature can do, tell the truth of human relationships that can't be spoken in everyday conversation.

May. 27 2014 08:40 PM

For all the naysayers who deny this gun killing spree was about misogyny:

You are blind.

The stats are there. Women are attacked, assaulted, raped, brutalized and harassed disproportionately more than men. This guy just happened to fall in the category of 'Murdered Women'.

And, for all your arguing about 'Yeah well he killed dudes too! Equal opportunity murderer!"

I read the freaking manifesto. I couldn't bring myself to watch the tape. And from what I gathered, he didn't kill those men because they were men. He killed those men because they were with women. His reason was always, always, always his loathing for women and anyone who could be with a woman.

Sure, there were multiple issues at hand with this self-absorbed brat, but there is a possibility his attitude and mental fortitude could have been completely different if the undercurrent of misogyny wasn't so prevalent in our world.

So buck up, stop whining about being treated unfairly because of assholes like this and start taking responsibility for your social behavior. This includes the comments and rants you make, trying to sweep away the overarching issues into a debate about gun control and mental issue. Stop it. Please. Freaking stop it. There is a problem. Deny it all you want, but there is an overwhelming amount of people who are screaming at you from freaking twitter that THERE IS A PROBLEM.

AND YOU STILL WON'T LISTEN.

Mental Issues and gun sprees are nothing, nothing, nothing compared to the damage and harm caused by misogyny. And if you want freaking proof, go google it - the credible sources are alarming.

May. 27 2014 07:22 PM

This problem is so toxic and overarching - the comments merely highlight just how ugly the problem is and how some men (and women) refuse to take responsibility for dangerous social attitudes.

Sure, tomorrow, not all men will be assholes. But all women will have to deal with an asshole. It is horrid.

Take for example some of these comments. Seriously. How do you guys function with this flawed and horrible logic?

' The hash tag has been crafted specifically to bring out the WORST internet trolls (in order to reinforce the point by using that small minority of sickos to smear men in general) and make men feel attacked because no man with even an ounce of self respect would tolerate for a moment being compared casually to a misogynist, rapist or someone who sexually harasses women.'

If it was such a small minority of sickos, then why is it that every single woman (myself included) I have ever encountered refuse to walk outside alone without wearing headphones or sunglasses to avoid contact with men? Or, the ones that don't, end up being insulted, slighted, sneered, catcalled or approached by men when they clearly want to be left alone?

-

'It's disgusting how this woman has appropriated the ravings of a sick mind and turned it into a means to promote her own agenda.'

Not an agenda - Melissa is highlighting an issue that 51 percent of the world population deals with daily.

-

'The stuff about "starving women to death" in a concentration camp is a tossed off paragraph at the end of a 140+ pages of maniacal thoughts which are directed primarily at MEN HE HATED AND ENVIED. The references are at least 4 to 1 so how did this become about misogyny as opposed to misandry? Hint: It's not about either, it's about CRAZY and appropriating a tragedy for political purposes.'

He did not hate men for being men. He hated men for being with women. That is misogyny, not misandry.

Seriously, Commenters. Its not about your feelings - its about your actions and how they hurt other people (including your comments which are devoid of empathy for Women / PEOPLE and their feelings)

What is wrong with you?

May. 27 2014 07:09 PM
Rick Evans from 10473

Lost in this discussion about misogyny is that Elliot Rodgers killed two women and four men for a misogyny efficiency of only 33%. Maybe we should be focusing on his psycho-pathology and how they system failed to deny him access to guns.

May. 27 2014 06:19 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Instead let's blame EVERYONE but the only people who knew he was dangerous and did nothing, namely his parents, family and the mental health "professionals" who were treating him.

He was never even evaluated on an in-patient basis... he should have been committed, obviously. I mean WHO could have seen it coming? It's not like it was OBVIOUS... oh wait, it was obvious even to people on an internet message board where he posted insane rants...

http://imgur.com/u8a9dq2

May. 27 2014 05:04 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ Lenore from Manhattan

Like every ignorant casual commenter you provide ZERO evidence for your claim and even less sense as to why the actions of a lunatic should somehow bring about a discussion about misogyny. The killer was, like most mass murderers before him, a deeply disturbed person. Since he was 8 years old he had been seen by numerous counselors, therapists and finally a psychiatrist who prescribed him a powerful anti-psychotic medication that he refused to take. He was described by people who knew him as a "ghost" who never spoke to anyone and seemed "out of it".

Yet this murder spree is about "misogyny" somehow because he focused his obsessive thoughts on pretty blond girls? Anyone who knows or has known a deeply disturbed person like a schizophrenic or manic depressive knows that they can and do say incredibly offensive things when in a certain agitated state, have delusions of persecution, act on imagined insults or attacks, etc.

We COULD have had an important discussion about the genuine issue here: How did a mentally ill person known to be mentally ill since childhood get hold of 3 guns? But instead the matter turns on the deluded fantasies of the very mad man who perpetuated the mass slaughter... The ironing, as Homer Simpson would say, is delicious... You're lionizing a lunatic and crediting him as some sort of misogynistic avenger, PRECISELY the way he saw himself and to exactly the effect he wished to have on society as a whole. Bravo.

May. 27 2014 03:48 PM
Anon

It's too bad he wasn't gay. He came from a creative family and was obviously very sensitive, if he had lived he might have found success eventually. Attaching his fate to the callous whims of women was a terrible miscalculation.

May. 27 2014 03:32 PM
Lenore from Manhattan

The level of sexism and--yes--misogyny, and anger and denial from those commenters (most of them here!) who dismiss misogyny as an issue worth considering in this massacre is truly disheartening.

It should be OBVIOUS that this young man hated women. That is not the only issue to consider, but to deny its very applicability is frightening and depressing. Yet this is always the response from some whenever misogyny is brought up. Worldwide and in NYC, discrimination and hatred of women is widespread.

Deal with it. Recognize it.

May. 27 2014 03:22 PM
Mark

It's not nearly as simple as a KKK member shooting up a Jewish center. He internalized all the feminist stuff so much he was afraid to even talk to women. Then it obviously confused him when he saw women lining up for guys who are supposedly "douches" and "brutes" while ignoring his quiet politeness. He didn't realize the political pronouncements people make and their actual actions rarely line up, be it Catholics bashing gays while molesting kids or Republicans bashing big government while living off government contracts. That's what makes the case so interesting. There is a subtle complexity to it that gives a tragic feel. Moreover, wealth inequality plays a bigger role in his writing than women. Women become the object of his anger but his real struggle is with being marginal in a milieu of great fortunes. The simplistic frames of misogyny or gun violence miss the point.

May. 27 2014 02:46 PM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ Lilly from Brooklyn

People are claiming misogyny had nothing to do with his actions because it's true. His mental illness was the cause of his actions, his misogynistic statements were his justification for his acts not an explanation for them. Get some depth and stop trying to politicize the issue. The dude was PROFOUNDLY disturbed.... if a madman claims he killed a classroom full of kids because he believed they were evil aliens and evil liens have been sending him messages his whole life and tormenting him with mind control rays does that means he was a xenophobic killer? Or a lunatic mass murderer? What a simp you are.

@ Anon

Nobody is entitled to anything from another person other than basic respect and common decency, you are an example of the sort of troll these conversations bring out.

May. 27 2014 01:53 PM
Lilly from Brooklyn

I have never been so angry at a Brian Lehrer comments section as I am now. People are claiming that misogyny had nothing to do with this killer's actions and it all comes down to "mental illness". This man hated women, and men who had girlfriends. He published a 140 page screed and a Youtube rant about it. Mental illness does not explain or excuse his actions any more than it does the actions of White Supremicist Frazier Glenn Cross, who killed 3 people at a Jewish Center.
Should we discount Cross's history in the Ku Klux Klan because he is "just crazy"? Was he not anti-Semitic because the people he killed happened to not be Jewish?

Why is it so hard to believe that Rodger's was motivated by hatred against women the way that Cross was motivated by anti-Semitism? This was a hate crime, and women are confronted by that hate every day, in small ways.

May. 27 2014 01:39 PM
Reader

I just read some of the shooter's 144 page story and it really reminds me of Sorrows Of Young Werther by Goethe. It's a Werther for the 21st century. He should have mailed it to a publisher instead of his therapist.

May. 27 2014 01:16 PM

This person is all that is wrong about modern pseudo-journalism.

Each event in the news is seen through the lens of misogyny-racism-homophobia-XYZism by someone whose career depends on the retailing of this constant ugliness. Everybody knows that this is destructive to ever "healing" this society and that their desire for a "conversation" about anything is a lie.
And everyone is afraid to be un-PC and say STOP!

Shame on Brian for providing a soapbox for this faux-commentator opportunist.
This was your response to Santa Barbara, Brian? This identity blame-game huckster?

May. 27 2014 12:54 PM
Anon

Who was this guy to think as a human being he deserves love?! What a psycho! What a misogynist! Only cool guys and dominating athletes deserve love, nerds like him need to go home and wack it.

May. 27 2014 12:02 PM
David from Manhattan

Disappointed that this show's topic has been hijacked! This is not a misogyny issue but a mental health one. Also, it's all rather racist and sexist to be focusing so much on the white girls while the Asian guys are barely mentioned... Thought better of the show.

May. 27 2014 11:58 AM
Cervantes

oh and the dude was half Asian,and so the wanton emasculation of the Asian male has nothing to do with anything,huh..?? Va Tech redux on a diminished scale...

May. 27 2014 11:45 AM
Mark

No one seems to want to address violence in our entertainment. From the killer's videos it's clear he watched American Psycho too many times.

May. 27 2014 11:38 AM
Cervantes

the convo that dare not speak it's name, is how boys/men are ridiculed for not having a sex life. it's seen as somehow being against women to even brooch that. so, we keep going to this zero sum idiocy of gender polarization- us vs them. do people really think,that we're going to sloganize our way out of this problem?! we're just a very stupid country,that's all about posturing and BS.

May. 27 2014 11:24 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Look it's all real simple. The hashtag "yes, all women" is a simplistic idea designed to achieve a simple end, which it has already, namely creating friction and political capital.

The notion that "yes, all women" experience misogyny is NOT, for instance, like saying "yes, all women" experience menstruation because there is no moral implication that men are the reason they experience menstruation and deserve to be blamed for that discomfort. It is not some sort of honest "woman to woman" conversation that is intended. The hash tag has been crafted specifically to bring out the WORST internet trolls (in order to reinforce the point by using that small minority of sickos to smear men in general) and make men feel attacked because no man with even an ounce of self respect would tolerate for a moment being compared casually to a misogynist, rapist or someone who sexually harasses women.

The effect is that most men feel angry and distance themselves from the conversation while woman feel that men don't care and this drives them into the arms of radical feminist ideologues(gender/queer) who manipulate
their feelings of anger and resentment for their own purposes. Radical feminists started the fight to drive men and women apart, without separating normal men from normal women there is no constituency for their views other than their own twitter/tumblr echo chamber.

May. 27 2014 11:20 AM
RosieNYC from NYC

1. What do people who support guns think is going to happen? This is nothing that should shock us or surprise us anymore. This is what happens when you make deadly weapons available to anybody. There is a reason why most developed countries have gun controls in place. If the gunning down of children sitting in their classroom did not give us enough courage to stand up to the lunatics and greedy bastard that run and support the gun industry....
2. The shooter was mentally ill and we did not do enough for him and his family.
3. Why are we surprised about the shooter's motives? Look around and see the message American media and culture send about males and females, with the worst offenders being Spanish-speaking American channels Univision and Telemundo. I mean, I find the way most media portrait women and their role in society troublesome but, as a person of hispanic descent, I find those Spanish-American channels specially disgusting and offensive.

May. 27 2014 11:17 AM
Mark

I didn't even know the majority of victims where in fact Asian males stabbed to death with a knife! But all we hear in the media are that the victims were rich white girls! Check your white privilege!

May. 27 2014 11:04 AM
Yun Cee from Astoria, Queens

I really want to learn more about the details about the composting organic curbside waste pickup - details are nonexistent on the site. I try to compost everything but my building does not participate in the pilot program right now. 1) Are there plans for 24/7 drop off sites for compost? 2) Will residents get compost as a "reward" for houseplants, etc.? 3) Where does all of the compost pick up go to and how are they being used?

May. 27 2014 10:52 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

All women have to do NOT to get "harassed" is just not put on their makeup or lipstick and all of that and let men see what they really look like :)

May. 27 2014 10:43 AM
paulb from Brooklyn

Not an edifying segment. I find this chattering classes, graduate school feminist glibness to be BS, and insensitive, opportunistic, self-promoting, and unhelpful BS considering the terrible event, and I guess I risk being labeled misogynistic as a result, but so be it. A load of BS.

May. 27 2014 10:42 AM
John A

Glad to see Bad is loosing on this forum. That's what a society is for, IMHO.

May. 27 2014 10:38 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

More people are killed by cars than by guns, so let's ban cars instead of guns since there is nothing in the Bill of Rights that says you have the right to own a car.

May. 27 2014 10:34 AM
Roy from Queens

This guy was more of a misanthrope than a misogynist because he couldn't relate to the opposite sex and he hated men who could. To make this into a female-centric issue is ill -thought. I couldn't relate to the opposite sex because I wasn't the perfect guy for them. Not every woman can look like Charlize Theron, but not every guy can look like Jon Hamm. When it comes down to the opposite sex, neither men nor women can perfectly satisfy each other's standards of perfection, and that's a subject not a lot of people are talking about.

May. 27 2014 10:31 AM

I understand some of the concerns voiced by the women but I think it can be extreme. Being an attractive but now older woman, I actually welcome a smile and perhaps even a comment from men on the street. I try to be alert and friendly as I walk through New York as we are too often not friendly and not kind to people on the street. I often look people in the eye when walking (a rarity). We have become too cold. Everyone should take a trip to Vinal Haven, Maine where you are tagged as a non-local if you don't acknowledge someone when walking or driving. I often get men remarking that I have beautiful eyes. I say thank you, smile, and keep walking. They feel acknowledged for noticing and I'm given a lift that, be it my humanity or attractiveness, I'm noticed. We go through this life too often insensitive to our environs and our fellow citizens.

May. 27 2014 10:31 AM

"They weren't "normal" right up until they snapped, there were numerous warning signs. Maybe it's time for mental health professionals to do more than just write scrips and cash checks?"

Clearly. In my world, such persons would go on a 'responsible firearms' watchlist but it wouldn't do much good as their is no database of firearms owners for the police to refer to. If we can't be sane about our gun ownership laws we need to be hyper-critical with our mental health services in order to prevent these tragedies.

Until we do, it's just luck that our own lives haven't been touched by gun violence.

May. 27 2014 10:29 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

So men are supposed to take collective responsibility ( more specifically collective guilt) for the criminal actions of other men? Guilt by association? Isn't that the OPPOSITE of justice? When racists point to black gang behavior in Chicago as evidence that blacks are inherently violent aren't they wrong? Are all black in the Chicago ghetto collectively guilty for the black on black crime they "allow" to take place in their community? Is no one shocked by how stupid and illogical that is? Yes harassment is bad, so is rape, what man is FOR those things? Where is the "rape" lobby? All of this is such a joke and a transparently political smear job.

May. 27 2014 10:27 AM
Taher from Croton on Hudson

This is discussion here seems totally absurd. What we had is a confluence of easy access to guns and mental illness. There are plenty of misogynist and men haters around who do not murder people. Also, the police who were called by the parents may have been incompetent.
The next shooter will be a humanity hater. So what dose that mean?

May. 27 2014 10:26 AM
Emily Logue from Hamilton, NJ

Can we also address the fact that this man was mentally disturbed - AND that he had the capacity to buy multiple guns? There is a difference between men who flow with cultural norms (albeit sexist and unacceptable ones) by catcalling etc., and those whose rage itself sends home to the gun store and architecting a murderous plot.

May. 27 2014 10:25 AM
mac

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that men in certain cultures make catcalls more then men in other cultures? Aren't certain cultures a part of the problem?

May. 27 2014 10:23 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

It's all feminist LIES and part of the ongoing WAR on men and to enslave them. That is why it is increasingly imperative to separate the genders and develop the ability to produce children in hatcheries so that males are not dependent on famales for sex, children or whatever.

May. 27 2014 10:23 AM

Rules controlling women in public spaces were in Jewish and Roman Law since at least 1st century BCE. I believe that the 3 main organized religions continue to support denigration of women. I'd love Melissa's take on role of images of women in religious art.

May. 27 2014 10:22 AM
guest from north jersey

I'd just like to point out that the comments here which seek to invalidate the concerns of women, and seek to inform us that we aren't even qualified to describe our own experience, only serve to make our point better than the hashtag ever could.

May. 27 2014 10:22 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Puhleeeze. The women who started this debate do not want "male allies", this is part of a political agenda to raise the profile of identity politics and legitimize divisive, irrational, hate driven emotive critiques.

May. 27 2014 10:20 AM
Brandt from Manhattan

PUA/MRAs and Ideological Feminists.

One coin two sides.

There is an absolute equivalency in their hate, their intolerance, their dogmatism, their false sense of being absolutely right, their prejudiced generalizations etc. etc. etc.

I am happy to not be friends with any member of either of these marginal yet loud and foaming at the mouth groups.

Normal human beings female and male are trying to make it work together.

People who are sick in their heads and full of pain continue to be divisive and spit their venom into society.

May. 27 2014 10:20 AM
Nicola from Brooklyn

As a mum to a 3 year old girl, it bothers me the most when I get cat called with her present. "Sexy mama" etc, It makes me want to confront them to show my daughter that it is not ok, but for her safety trumps my anger. Instead, when we're still in an earshot of them, I loudly state that is not how you should talk to someone. I educate my daughter as to how to respect and talk to everyone, is there less being done for sons?

May. 27 2014 10:20 AM
Pat from nyc

I remember how scared I was when I moved here and was told I wasn't allowed to carry pepper spray in NYC. People should teach their sons that women are people not possessions, that are deserving of respect. It seems SOME men don't realize this until they have daughters.

May. 27 2014 10:19 AM
lk from brooklyn

http://abc7news.com/news/isla-vista-stabbing-victims-were-from-the-bay-area/77427/

He was half Asian and the 3 men killed were Asian. He must have hated his Asian self. This has not been talked about. The guy had a lot of enemies. He was very sick.

May. 27 2014 10:19 AM
Jon from West Village

This show is completely off the rails. This incident is about mental illness and the tragedy of gun companies making addicts out of Americans the way Pharma companies do. This woman is trying to hijack two tragedies and bend them to fix her own agenda.

May. 27 2014 10:18 AM
paulb from Brooklyn

It's fair to use this crime as a launching pad for this discussion, but the proximate cause was a consciousness of failure, discouragement, and then anger, and something similar occurred at Columbine, and perhaps at Sandy Hook. The young man Roger's rantings blamed women, but can anyone mistake there was a feeling of his own failure and inadequacy, which he well recognized? Of course women are not responsible for assuaging these feelings, but did no one in his family, or his therapists, recognize this and try to help him cope with something that's not all that uncommon?

May. 27 2014 10:18 AM
guest from North Jersey

As a woman who drives into Manhattan frequently, each time I get the pleasure of having a bus nearby with an ad for vodka on the back. Have you seen these? It shows a bottle of vodka and . . . I can't even call it a woman. Because it's just a torso. She doesn't even have a head. It's a bottle with a bikini-clad, woman's torso. Becuase, you know, the only thing about us that's important is our breasts and our privates.
Each time I see it I'm enraged. It feels like an assault on my person-hood and my dignity, and it's accepted. I'm just driving into the city to meet my husband and I have to have this staring me in the face. We're not even people. We're objects of sexual gratification and pleasure, just like a bottle of vodka. And we criticize middle eastern cultures that cover women in hijabs or burka? You think uncovering us to use us in this way is somehow a sign of our greater respect for women? Both practices make us *invisible* as human beings.
#yesallwomen

May. 27 2014 10:18 AM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

No question woman get verbally and physically abused everyday. But this is not your normal case of a construction worker making vulgar calls. This guy killed 6 people (3 of which were his own male roommates) and injured 13. This story is way beyond woman mass-agony. This is a story about someone with serious, serious, serious issues. TO blame it on woman mass-agony is a disservice all around....This is beyond irresponsible to the woman's right movement and those trying to help the mentally ill before bad things happen, not after...

May. 27 2014 10:15 AM
Mark

The most ironic thing is in his videos he rails against "horrid brutes" who women like and he was obviously foolishly trying to be a "gentlemen" and treat women well but his aspergers left him unable to process the disconnect between what people say and what they do in practice. For example the case of Chris Christie in NJ. Even liberal women find him "intriguing" because of his "take charge attitude", which is to say he's a brute. When he screams in a meek female teachers face some people obviously get a kick out of it including people who think they are liberal. The majority of people just realize we live in a civilization of hypocrisy and repression but if you have aspergers or autism all of this probably seems very strange indeed.

May. 27 2014 10:14 AM
RUCB_Alum from Central New Jersey

"...a woman and a Democrat..." What the heck does that mean?

Prosecutors and judges HAD BETTER prosecute and sentence predators with serious time or they risk guys like me taking 'justice' into our own hands when the guy my daughter says attacked her is given no jail time.

May. 27 2014 10:14 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ RUCB_Alum from Central New Jersey

California has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, this lunatic was "on the radar"" of his parents, myriad counselors, therapists, a psychiatrist and his parents and family. What do all, and I mean every one of these mass killers have in their background? From The VT shooter to Elliot Roger? ALL OF THEM had extensive contacts with mental health professionals who almost certainly knew that they were a danger to them self or others. Every one. They weren't "normal" right up until they snapped, there were numerous warning signs. Maybe it's time for mental health professionals to do more than just write scrips and cash checks?

May. 27 2014 10:14 AM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

No question woman get verbally and physically abused everyday. But this is not your normal case of a construction worker making vulgar calls. This guy killed 6 people (3 of which were his own male roommates) and injured 13. This story is way beyond woman mass-agony. This is a story about someone with serious, serious, serious issues. TO blame it on woman mass-agony is a disservice all around....This is beyond irresponsible to the woman's right movement and those trying to help the mentally ill before bad things happen, not after...

May. 27 2014 10:13 AM

I figured you would talk about this crazed killer...but not coming from this direction. Seems like you have invited the victim mentality crowd.

May. 27 2014 10:13 AM
Nick from UWS

"..one probably mentally ill hater...."...Jesus Brian, that's taking PC absurdity to stunning new heights.

May. 27 2014 10:12 AM
Brock from Manhattan

Most of the casual sex in the US takes place under the Harem Model - many women who gravitate to a few select males. Neither these men or the women have a problem with that. But what of all the other men?

May. 27 2014 10:12 AM
C.E. Connelly from Manhattan

Oh, great a hashtag has spread around the world. Fight misogyny 140 characters at a time. More complex engagement is needed. It was a shooting spree. Let's do something about guns.

May. 27 2014 10:11 AM
john from office

Wow instead of the focus being on how easily this nutjob, bought three guns, Brian makes it about girls, women, race and the kidnapped african girls!!

This woman has an academic's view of everything and everything is about gender and race.

What about him being half Chinese/American, how does that play into her "World View".

May. 27 2014 10:10 AM
Brock from Manhattan

Women would react very differently if George Clooney approached them for a date. Ask Perry about that.

May. 27 2014 10:08 AM
Barb from Manhattan

Gotta just say that becoming a woman "of a certain age" has been a blessing whilst walking around NY in that street harassment has dwindled to next-to-nothing. What a relief.

May. 27 2014 10:08 AM
RUCB_Alum from Central New Jersey

Mr. Bad

"Nothing in our culture or society is responsible, directly or indirectly, for the vile actions of this lunatic."

No so fast, Mr. B. Would you agree that ease of which crazy can obtain lethal firepower is enabled by our own 2nd Amendment and our quandary over how the 'right to keep and bear' has been worked out?

May. 27 2014 10:07 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

Take for instance this passage from Elliot's "manifesto":

"While roaming around the after party, I bore witness to many successful young men who pranced in with their hot model girlfriends. Some of them were even actors my own age, stars of the movie. I had a particular burning hatred for the actor Alexander Ludwig, who I saw sitting arrogantly on a couch as people crowded around him in adoration. I hated everything about him; his golden blonde hair; his tall, muscular frame; his cocky, masculine face. That boy could get any girl he wanted."

The WHOLE THING is like that. The stuff about "starving women to death" in a concentration camp is a tossed off paragraph at the end of a 140+ pages of maniacal thoughts which are directed primarily at MEN HE HATED AND ENVIED. The references are at least 4 to 1 so how did this become about misogyny as opposed to misandry? Hint: It's not about either, it's about CRAZY and appropriating a tragedy for political purposes.

May. 27 2014 09:46 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

It's disgusting how this woman has appropriated the ravings of a sick mind and turned it into a means to promote her own agenda. Elliot Roger was a disturbed person who had been seen by a psychiatrist and prescribed Risperidone (a very strong anti-psychotic drug which he refused to take)for his mental illness. Comparing his insane rants to wolf whistles and macho posturing (implying there is some sort of connection) is itself demented. Nothing in our culture or society is responsible, directly or indirectly, for the vile actions of this lunatic. Harassment of any kind needs to be dealt with seriously but this is just as bad as the the men who point to numerous proven false rape accusations as evidence that "genuine rape" is rare.

May. 27 2014 09:12 AM
Mike from nyc

You just has a msnbc representative on your show last month. Is this an ongoing monthly msnbc series on the bl show?

Did anyone read the rant from facebook's Mike Hudack:
"...And of course Fox News and msnbc care more about telling their viewers what they want to hear than informing the national conversation in any meaningful way..."
You can read the whole thing on his fb page or on forbes website...

There are fewer independent news outlets in this country and corporations control what their television representatives are allowed to report on.

May. 27 2014 08:54 AM

“The last time we heard from MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry she was mocking Mitt Romney’s adopted black grandchild, but she managed to top that on Saturday when she compared black men playing in the NBA to slavery. For the record, NBA players are the highest paid professional athletes in America, easily surpassing all other major team sports.”

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/05/26/harris-perry-compares-multi-millionaire-black-men-playing-for-white-nba-owners-to-slavery-121243

Who cares what this person thinks about ANYTHING? Good heavens.

May. 27 2014 07:43 AM

Leave a Comment

Email addresses are required but never displayed.