This episode is from the WNYC archives. It may contain language which is no longer politically or socially appropriate.
Jay Nelson Tuck moderates.
Guest is Joseph Carlino, Republican Majority Leader of the New York State Assembly. Discusses off-track betting and the City-State relationship.
Panelists include Stan Siegel, Lillian Affan, Barbara Benmolche.
Carlino opposes off-track betting. Does not believe that major state funds should be collected through gambling, which he believes exploits some. Does not believe that this kind of taxation can be compared to taxes on liquor.
Opposes question that insinuates that the people of New York City pay more than half of all state taxes collected in New York state. The only area in which the city receives less than the rest of the state is in education - he defends this formula, which is based on the number of pupils that attend the school, and it adjusted by the property value of homes in the school district.
Also, questions regarding upstate students being admitted into City Colleges.
Upcoming vote to allow the people to decide if they want to take on $5 million
of debt to construct schools for the next ten years.
Carlino states that he will run for the Speaker of the Assembly position.
Carlino speaks positively of Governor Rockefeller and says if he declared himself for the US Presidency he would support him.
Audio courtesy of the NYC Municipal Archives WNYC Collection
WNYC archives id: 72094
Municipal archives id: LT8462
This is a machine-generated transcript. Text is unformatted and may contain errors.
Can you see. The city being shortchanged on state aid for education so you become speaker of the assembly for the answers to these and other questions listen all to cap this press conference every Sunday at this time editors of college newspapers question the news where the personalities are moderator on campus press conference of another newspaper and then and editor Jane Olson talk now to introduce the panel and the ceilings guest here is Mr Tuck Good evening. Every year the city of New York seems to need new powers to tax and govern when it does need those powers it must go to the state government to get them. If the city fathers don't get all they want and that's usually the case there are always differences between them and state officials sometimes there's real betterness our guest tonight on campus press conference is a man who has in the past had much to say about what powers the city should have and he may have even more to say in the future here's the honorable Joseph F. Carlino leader of the Republican majority in the state assembly since the recent death of Oswald the heck speaker of the assembly Mr Carlo Carli you know has frequently been mentioned by political prophets as the man most likely to succeed to the speakership most are calling our represents the area of Long Beach Long Island in the assembly. Here tonight to question him a stance a goal of the N.Y.U. square Journal and lonely i Phone and Barbara. Both of the Hunter College. And if we may be ungallant Mr Carlin or let's let them out of the first question. Recently New York City asked for several new taxing powers from the state one of them off track betting was denied do you think that therefore the city is being starved from from its normal tax revenues in view of the rising prices No I don't stand I am violently opposed to the concept of legalizing off track betting I think that to resort to gambling the sauce of major revenue for the maintenance of government would be a very damaging concept to inject into law society and at the session of the legislature the bill to permit New York City to tax off track betting was not passed it was not reported out of committee and it was generally opposed by the leadership in the assembly and by the governor isn't it true though that some of the taxes which you did approve proved to be more of a nuisance than off track betting would have proved to Leon we approach the taxes that were requested by the mayor and the Board of Estimate of the city of New York we didn't recommend our originate the ideas of the permissive taxes that the city requested all we did was to review the requests that the city made to us including off track betting and passed on and allowed the city to use those taxes which we deemed would not be detrimental either to the city or to the state. You know I'm betting you seem to have a moral question about it is off track betting Marling any different at the track betting from which the state of central revenue I don't place my opposition off track betting on my ground I just feel this way that if we're going to encourage indiscriminate gambling which will mean gambling by those in the lower income and middle income groups then we're going to shift a large burden of the cost of government to those who are least able to pay and our concept and government has always been that those who are best able to pay should be called upon to pay the major share and major cost of government off track betting operates directly on the opposite principle. On the other hand with this point in mind if people can't afford to pay and they shouldn't stupid enough to then they should have to pay well that may be rather trite way of disposing of the issue but when government not only have the right to pass what we consider to be equitable principles in the field of taxation but we also have the right if you will to prevent people with certain weaknesses from being exploited or being victimized even by their own weaknesses That's why there are so many statutes on the books of our state in the penal law particularly which prohibit certain practices what you deleterious to the welfare and the health of our people take drug addiction for instance that doesn't affect anybody but the user but yet it's prohibited because if expanded greatly. Because if it becomes greatly widespread it would destroy society in gambling and do the same thing well then why is it that you have the federal government has a tremendous. Excise tax which directly affect the police able to pay for. I mean in other words I don't think very many drunks and I've never seen a lot of money well I wouldn't say that the majority of people who consume like are a drunk so I think the converse is very definitely true and further than that when you purchase liquor you're getting something for your money you're getting some good at least. That's how you practice that will take it and then nine times out of ten you don't enjoy it and you get absolutely nothing for your money it's quite a difference. I think without. This has to be a tremendous dichotomy in the relationship between New York City in New York State in the fact that we have the city less than fifty percent of the representation we provide way more than fifty percent of the revenue and yet we don't enter and also get less than fifty percent of the benefits how do you justify this well in any legislative system including the Congress of the United States or the United States Senate or getting a little closer to home the board of estimates or the city council of the city of New York you can never achieve exactitude in population representation Take for instance the borough of Staten Island with two hundred thousand people they have a member of the Board of Estimate who has to vote. Take Conversely the county of Queens which has one million eight hundred thousand people they have a member of the broad of estimate was two votes so that the question of a portion meant our legislative representation in Albany as an argument that the city is being shortchanged in my opinion has no merit I like to believe that the legislature of our state as well as any other legislative body decides the questions that come before it on the merits and doesn't discriminate or doesn't favor any one section of the state because of the geographical section from which the individual member may come now you referred to the fact of the allegation that New York City has about fifty percent of the population of the state that's not exactly true it has about forty four percent but even with forty four percent that the city of New York or the people in the city pay more than fifty percent of the state taxes that isn't true either the figures show that fifty six percent of the revenue of the state is collected within New York City but it certainly is not paid by the people of New York City the great sums of money which are collected on the transactions taking place in the New York Stock Exchange which total sixty million dollars a year in state revenue originate not within the city not even within the state but outside of the state and the banking transactions that take take place in New York and the business taxes paid by the business offices of international and national firms which are collected by New York are certainly not paid by the people of the city so that this concept that New York City pays or that the people of New York City pay an inordinate share of the state revenue for what they get back is just not so it's a complete mess and it's a manufactured issue that has no merit. Than what would be true however if the people didn't pay this and the city did in effect because of this transaction taking place a good fifty six percent of the revenue that's rather than giving the people of the city that fifty fifty six percent benefit at least the city itself in terms of other benefits could get let's say highway. Revenue from the state or revenue for the purposes of bettering the business district. Based upon the business that is done in the city and which does produce revenue for this I understand your point Stan and I'd be the first to say that that. Insofar as the distribution of state aid to the city of New York is concerned and the mayor himself admits that there are seven major categories and Mayor Wagner has admitted on television parents and he made some weeks ago that in every single one of the seven categories the city gets more and percentages than do the areas outside of the city there is only one field in which the mayor makes a case on the figures and that is in state aid education and the reason for that the reason why the city gets less in percentage is and in dollars than the rest of the state is because of the type of formula that is used for the distribution of state a day education and that formula happens to be absolutely sound because it's been an existence in the state and since one nine hundred twenty five and every municipality in the state whether it be a city or a town or a school district our village district gets the aid on the same formula. Barbara. Basically what is a formula yes not just the question I want to ask me the formula is based upon the number of pupils who attend the school. And it is equalized if you will. By the property values within the district where those children attend school so those two factors the number of children and the amount of property wealth in the community and under that standard New York City is among the higher of the minutes apologies in the state in property Well there are one hundred districts however including the city of Buffalo the city of Rochester in the city of Syracuse which gets less per pupil than do then does New York because after capital values are even higher than New York so that New York is not at the bottom of the ladder by any manner of means and that again is based on the concept that every citizen in the public schools of this state is entitled to an equal educational opportunity and it is carried through in the provision of equalizing by providing in substance but those wealthier areas of the state must support the poor areas and maintain a reasonable standard of education statewide and that formula was reenacted only in one hundred fifty six and when it was voted upon it was unanimously passed in both houses of the legislature and the Democratic minority leader of the assembly the late Mr Eugene Bannigan introduced the bill we are voted for it and Governor Harmon signed it so that I don't think there's any inequities insofar as that Bill is concerned on the merits and reference to New York City. Are you quite sure that it is very the number of children enrolled in school are on the attendance because I have been under the impression that the amount of money given to schools is based on attendance one July through Bob it's based on what we call average daily attendance and the same rules in calculating average daily attendance is applied statewide comes down to the same thing I mean just in general not concerning New York City now isn't this a little bit silly because if you have say under children in a school then just only one hundred reader tax whether or not they come every day well the reason for and cooperating into the formula the fact or of average daily attendance is to impress upon the localities the necessity of compelling attendance of children in the public schools and it's a motivating force in keeping attendance records up and enforcing in. And Hansing the work of the attendance officers that's the real reason for. The reason it's really that the state wants to get away with giving us little money for education is a poll that's not true because we're giving over seven hundred million dollars this year in aid to education let me correct that we're not giving we are providing the money which is raised by taxes upon all of the people of the state this concept that the state can't give money away is absolutely on sound we tax people and business and industry in this money is not our job and we had to raise the taxes that the last session substantially because of the programs to which we have over the years that he had namely a very liberal state education program. Yes With reference to the specifically to the Mitchell bill for a two municipal colleges which I understand was granted not by what was actually requested or needed but for what was left over in the budget and this also has a provision that states students may now be admitted to the municipal colleges but certainly the city still carries the large share of the. Price of the expense something a lot of question this is a rather easy way of getting a state university through now where there isn't a matter of fact that is exactly what the city has been complaining about namely that the municipal colleges of the city have not received equal treatment with the community community colleges throughout the state. If the city colleges were being run as community colleges I think that have an argument but they're not and I'm not saying that they should be in a community college in other parts of the state the students pay tuition. Him an S. a palette he paid one third of the operating cost but to wish and from the students pay the other third and the final third comes from the state a New York City elects to operate its municipal colleges without tuitions and that's a substantial So I said revenue that the city doesn't see fit to avail itself of I'm not saying they should because I'm not telling them how to run them in a simple colleges but they made the claim that because of the fact that they were getting no aid whatsoever except in the teacher training part of the city colleges where they are treated the same as the rest of the state that they should have some allowance and the proposal was that one third of the operating cost should be provided for by the state. The first step has been taken namely to provide one sixth of the operating cost for the first two years as is done in community colleges I personally feel we should give them the full one third for the first two years and undoubtedly that will be done next year Mr Carlino a recent furor was established was to rows of your raised all sorts of problems about a school bond issue and waste in the schools however I understand recently the ledge of the state legislature passed a bill allowing a five hundred million dollar bond issue to be made. To be issued by the city of New York for the purposes of capital improvements in education do you think that this is advisable in view of the city's finances yes I do and I voted for it this is a constitutional amendment it's not an act of the legislature but it's a constitutional amendment which has to be submitted to the people statewide allowing the people to vote on the question of whether or not the city should be enabled to incur