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How Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Changes the Game in Russia

Friday, July 18, 2014

Rescuers stand on July 18, 2014 on the site of the crash of a Malaysian airliner carrying 298 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, near the town of Shaktarsk, in rebel-held east Ukraine. (Getty)

The Russian government is denying any involvement in the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, shot down over Eastern Ukraine yesterday. US officials have stopped short of implicating Russia, but former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says these events "put [Vladimir] Putin on notice that he has gone too far and we are not going to stand idly by." Julia Ioffe, Senior Editor at The New Republic and Russian-American journalist, discusses the latest and explains the geopolitical implications of the attack.

Guests:

Julia Ioffe

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Comments [32]

Roberty

Even if the Ukrainaina people, who do not recognize the coup-d'Etait in Kiev (set up and instigated by the CIA), did assume that this was just another plane coming to bomb them, (see CIA anti-aircraft missilles in Afganistan during its sponsorship on the Mujahadin, Lybia, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Iran ,Syria, etc... these crokodile tears by the mass media as spokesmen for the Deep-State of the US - the US-Stasi (C.I.A/ NSA State) ... even then)...

Russia has a vital interest in the way it was reduced to a poor shadow of its former self by the CIA and its traitor --- Yeltsin (see the film -- 'Spinning Boris').
Russia has a right to regain its dignity and its VITAL interests that the US has at all costs has tried to destroy.
The arrogance of this imperialist power just waits for its upcommance.
Putin is plugging into an uproar of outrage all over the world against this imperialist --arrogant overreach by the US
Don't be so confident, and you no longer represent the dream of the innocent future of the world to come.....

The US (CIA) is great at causing instability and de-stabilization, but Capitalism is never able to maintaIn stasbility and a just society afte its mischief.

Jul. 18 2014 04:35 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Whenever a plane blows up or "disappears", the first thought is

Islamist terrorism.

Odd that Malaysia Air was involved in the loss of all passengers and crew twice in one year.

Jul. 18 2014 03:32 PM
roseellen from jackson heights

So when the Israelis kill hundreds of civilians in their war, the US media and the government in cahoots simply call it unfortunate collateral damage.When Russia and or their separatists who are at war with Ukraine, accidently kill civilians, mistaking a civilian plane for an enemy plane, it warrants sanctions and ramping up the anti Russian propaganda. And t minutes after this happened Europe is called upon to de stable their energy supplies to satisfy the US anti Russian agenda.[Russian can't be seen to have power comparable to the US's]. The US is indeed coming across like an imperialist power and that our professed free media is part of it ,is appalling. Already I noticed the media and the politicians are starting in with the Europeans; by next week O'Reilly will be calling once again for a boycott of "the French" if they don't jump through our hoops like they did not do during that Iraq war!

Jul. 18 2014 01:13 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretenitious Hudson Heights

Russia shot down passenger plane Korean Air KAL 007 in 1983

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

"The Soviet government expressed regret over the loss of life, but offered no apology and did not respond to demands for compensation."

TWA 800 blew up in the waters off Long Island - 269 perished - ironically on the same day - July 17 - 18 years earlier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800

Jul. 18 2014 11:48 AM
sanych

@intern modifying JavaScript on WNYC

After your changes, writing comments on Android phones is close to impossible.

Jul. 18 2014 11:00 AM
sanych

@ed

Use your link, but select previous days for the same flight.

You will see that the path was much to the south-west of the war zone.

The only explanation is that Ukrainian air traffic controllers deliberately director it there.

Jul. 18 2014 10:51 AM
Amy from Manhattan

I'd been thinking of the US shootdown of the Iranian plane, in particular how it was often called an "accident." There's a difference btwn. an accident & a mistake, & I was glad to hear the downing of the Malaysian plane called a "mistake," which is what it was. Still a horrible thing, in both cases.

On the

Jul. 18 2014 10:46 AM

The A300 shootdown was (finally) recognized as an accident. [The F14 the Vincennes was target was actually an Airbus A300.] The US compensated the Iranian gov't with $62M dollars. Who knows if the actual victims received anything. The captain and the weapons officer for the Vincennes were decorated. Probably the justification for the honors was that they followed orders/protocol EVEN THOUGH it was a mis-identification of a civilian airliner that caused great loss of life.

Jul. 18 2014 10:42 AM

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/18/what-ronald-reagan-said-when-korean-air

Jul. 18 2014 10:39 AM
Greg from Gowanus

A good segment on an event that is tragic and will clearly have serious implications going forward, though we can do little but wait for the specific topographies of those consequences to reveal themselves. I had to comment because I was shocked by the way that Brian ended the segment, teasing the next with the first deputy mayor with a flippant and frankly disgusting remark that he would likely be avoiding eastern ukrainian airspace. Yes, the unraveling of the security situation in the eurasian powder keg and a huge loss of life is worth a snide chuckle, isn't it? I know it's hard to maintain the appropriate tone across such a variety of discussions and guests, but this was a gross miscue, and as a long-time listener I was disappointed.

Jul. 18 2014 10:38 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

I have no idea why this would change EU policy towards Russia. It was obviously a mistake, even Putin's statement is essentially an admission that the rebels shot it down (i.e. blaming the "war" and not any actor except the Ukrainian Gov for waging it)so how does that constitute a "game changer"?

Putin has an endgame developed and it's obvious: Either the Russian rebels win and get autonomy or they lose in which case he will order Russian forces into the Russian speaking enclaves to protect civilians from "atrocities". Either way he wins and there will be lots more bodies, it doesn't change anything... Our initial response was far too lackadaisical for lack of a better word and Ukraine, at least the valuable parts, are lost to the West for the foreseeable future.

Jul. 18 2014 10:33 AM
Seth

Yes, the guy did get a medal, but the US did pay out for the Iranian plane.

Jul. 18 2014 10:31 AM
capwilly from Manhattan

How can you flaunt Hillary Clinton's condemnation of Russia for supplying Ukraine's rebels with arms when you unabashedly support Israel's decimation of Gaza with arms, money and supplies given to them by the US? We pay for their existence and they continually flip us the finger. Perhaps your inept guest should examine how the US has lost control rather than Russia.

Jul. 18 2014 10:31 AM
Seth

I'm soooo disappoint in the BL show that you let incorrect statements pass a fact. The US did apologize for the Iranian downed plane. Clips were showed all over the Maddow show last night. Others will now assume that what one uninformed called mistakenly said is fact.... when it is NOT.

Jul. 18 2014 10:30 AM
Elizabeth Ungar from New YOrk City

Yes, I just looked on Wikipedia and found this:
In 1996, the United States and Iran reached "an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" relating to the incident at the International Court of Justice.[7] As part of the settlement, the United States agreed to pay US$61.8 million, an average of $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims. However, the United States has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran.[8]

This is the citation: The Iran-Iraq War: The Politics of Aggression by Farhang Rajaee University Press of Florida

Jul. 18 2014 10:29 AM
Mireille Liong from Brooklyn, NY

Unless Rachel Maddow is wrong, the caller is right: the man responsible got a medal of honor.

Jul. 18 2014 10:28 AM
Jeff Pappas

USA did it too

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10203387418022829&substory_index=0&id=1133086856

Jul. 18 2014 10:28 AM
Seth

Please correct the record....
wiki:
In 1996, the United States and Iran reached "an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" relating to the incident at the International Court of Justice.[7] As part of the settlement, the United States agreed to pay US$61.8 million, an average of $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims. However, the United States has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran

Jul. 18 2014 10:27 AM
Seth

According to msnbc, the US paid hundreds of millions of dollars in the '88 Iran shoot down. Please do some research!!!

Jul. 18 2014 10:25 AM
Cervantes

giving us all this end result data, without fleshing out geopolitical context, is useless.

Jul. 18 2014 10:23 AM
ed

the flight track that MH17 followed is one that many airlines use, including U.S. airlines. I have flown this track myself many times on the way to India from New York. The plane was not given a descent by Kiev controllers as the rebels claimed at one time, and it did not divert for weather. You can see all this very easily on the flight aware website.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK
Also, getting the flight data and voice recorders will not clarify the mystery. The answer to who did this lies in good old fashioned police work on the ground and cooperation between the intelligence communities.

Jul. 18 2014 10:21 AM
Cervantes

we sound as if we're searching too much,ma'am. much of this is "church of the obvious" fare. also,no discussion at all here,of the complex political entanglements.

Jul. 18 2014 10:20 AM

Damn this woman seems to know what flavor ice cream Putin likes.

Jul. 18 2014 10:15 AM
Carlos from 10024

USA issued warning about flying over Crimea not Ukraine. Big difference.
Commercial airlines regularly fly over war zones especially on long haul routes from Europe to SE Asia.

Jul. 18 2014 10:15 AM

Hillary might agree to speak to Putin now ... but she would need to charge $250,000 for her time. (Redirected to her "charitable" Clinton Foundation, of course.)

Jul. 18 2014 10:14 AM
Janice from Chelsea

Just want to recommend an article that mentions your guest.

Distorting Russia
How the American media misrepresent Putin, Sochi and Ukraine.

Stephen F. Cohen February 11, 2014 | This article appeared in the March 3, 2014 edition of The Nation.

It is very elucidating.

Jul. 18 2014 10:13 AM
john from office

Like every problem on the planet, the UN is asleep and useless. The Russians will spin this into some crazy plot and blame Obama, the GOP and Tea Party will blame Obama for being Black, mexican loving and just for being Obama and the EU will do nothing and just let itself get mounted again by Putin.

Jul. 18 2014 10:11 AM

Please add this to tsar putins crimes
I'm left wondering will these murders wake the EU?
Will these deaths make clear Europe has another madman living oh so near?

Shame on the people of Russia.

Jul. 18 2014 10:09 AM

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL.

Now that Hillary wants to be an "Obama-with-testicles" in the White House, she is provoking OTHERS to act tough.

Jul. 18 2014 10:06 AM
betsy from life

the Game? are you serious

Jul. 18 2014 10:05 AM

"Game"?

Jul. 18 2014 09:11 AM

LOL.... oh, so NOW Hillary (the lame placeholder Secretary of State) talks tough! Oooohhhh, gggrrrrrr!!!

What a hoot! She should remain silent and not remind everyone how much the diplomatic landscape deteriorated during her substance-less, photo-op tenure.

Jul. 18 2014 09:09 AM

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