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The Chinese Revolution 1945-1957

Tuesday, October 01, 2013

Frank Dikötter chronicles Mao Zedong’s ascension and his campaign to transform the Chinese into what the party called New People. Due to the secrecy surrounding the country’s records, little has been known before now about the eight years preceding the massive famine and Great Leap Forward. In The Tragedy of Liberation: A History of the Chinese Revolution 1945-1957, Dikötter draws on hundreds of previously classified documents, secret police reports, unexpurgated versions of leadership speeches, eyewitness accounts of those who survived to reveal the horrific policies they implemented in the name of progress.

Comments [17]

MC from Manhattan

From Wikipedia:
Large numbers of civilians starved in the siege; estimates range from 150,000[4] to 330,000.[1] The besieging Communist forces allowed Nationalist soldiers to leave, but forcibly prevented civilians from doing so, hoping to pressure General Zheng Dongguo, leader of the Nationalist forces, into surrender.

The questions to ask are what was the state of health and the degree of body fat on General Zhen Dongguo and his commanders on the scene in that city at the time of surrender .. did they starve or did they withhold food, aid and water from the population that was under their "protection". Were they men who were ready to sacrifice for those people? Or regarded their own health, wealth and position only and did not care what happened as long as they had a chance at maintaining their own position ? Obviously, they would have rather seen 150,000 people starve than give up ... and when they did, they have apologists making excuses for their extreme selfishness..

Oct. 01 2013 02:57 PM
MC from Manhattan

From Wikipedia:
Lin Biao commanded the Communist forces during the siege. Lin had initially proposed to move on Changchun in April, but turned his attention to other cities after investing Changchun. In October, Lin proposed to finally take the city. In response, Mao sent a sarcastic telegram ridiculing him for not having taken the city five months prior, and ordering Lin to take Jinzhou instead.[2] As news from Jinzhou reached Changchun, the KMT commanding general, Ceng Zesheng, defected to the Communists along with most of his officers. They were given posts in the Communist armies on Mao Zedong's personal orders.[3]

So the Nationalists could have surrendered from THE VERY BEGINNING and SAVED those 150,000 lives WITHOUT any fear of death or persecution.... instead .. they allowed that starvation, they CAUSED that starvation... because they did not VALUE the lives of the 150,000 peasants. This so called massacre was the FAULT of the NATIONALIST Generals.. who not unlike the republicans and tea partiers this very day, are holding the government hostage for a futile ideology whilst cutting 4 million needy families off food aid as they seek to find some tortuous lie to blame Obama for wanting to bring health care to the American people.. This author ... I am sorry I cannot think and in a civil discourse USE the words I would like to use to describe disingenuous deceptions such as his .. suffice to say .. typical of satanic logic and propagnda ...

Oct. 01 2013 02:45 PM
MC from Manhattan

Is that why so many GEntiles made this rebellious Jew, Jesus, their God and saviour?

The principle followers of Jesus when he was around were other Jews.... and at that time MOST of the biological ancestors of the Jews today were not Jewish .....

Oct. 01 2013 02:29 PM
MC from Manhatan

Who said Jesus was a "Communist"? communists are a particular political ideology that was created in the 19th century. There were many civilizations and cultures that could be described or used as examples by communist or socialist thinkers in the precolumbian Americas and indeed they inspired Marx and Engels as well as Rousseu because Europe was in the grips of inequality amongst itself ... I do thou, think it funny how those that hate "communists" make excuses for "capitalists" and "imperialists" .. which evidences where their hearts truly lie .. the list of "capitalist, mercantilist, imperialist" atrocities is centuries long .. every tit can be countered with 20 tats... so don't even go there.... your statement about the money changers is valid..... and most likely there were quite a few "seeking PROFIT" .... that were cheating worshippers... because when your MAIN goal is PROFIT, you don't care HOW you make that profit... when your main goal is to enable your fellow man to engage in spirituality then there would be NO cheats in a temple... unless the religion itself allowed or fostered such moral corruption..... hmmm... isn't the sacrifice of animals itself a type of bribery?

Oct. 01 2013 02:27 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

To MC

Is that why so many GEntiles made this rebellious Jew, Jesus, their God and saviour? Because he hated the rich and drove out the money changers from the courtyard of the Temple? Well, how were the people going to buy their goats and doves to sacrifice in the Temple if they couldn't change their Egyptian or Babylonian money to Roman money? The money changers were in the outside courtyard, not inside the Temple itself.
Jesus was rebelling about hypocrites and crooks. It wasn't a communist rebellion. Charity was encouraged before Jesus came along, but not all the rich are charitable. I don't buy the ideology that Jesus was a communist. Just that people should act honestly and charitably, with which I fully agree.

Oct. 01 2013 01:53 PM
MG from Queens

Wait..... did Leonard say this guy is a professor in HK ? Ummm isn't HK part of big, bad COMMUNIST China?
Why then, hasn't his head been taken?

Oct. 01 2013 01:45 PM
Matt Helme

You can really tell how un-bias and honest this guy is.

Oct. 01 2013 01:43 PM
MC from Manhattan

"The poor always hate the rich. " yeah that's why that Biblical jewish guy jesus of nazareth chased the money changers out of the temple should I list all his other quotes against the greedy wealthy? The rich are the ones that enslave and hate the poor.. slavery was not maintained by poor people it was run and fought for by the rich and their minions and brainwashed lapdogs....

Oct. 01 2013 01:43 PM
MG from Manhattan

Don't forget the 49,000 Taiwanese that the KMT and Chiang Kai Shek massacred when they "fled " to Taiwan

Oct. 01 2013 01:40 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

Buzzkill

The poor always hate the rich. That is why the Biblical commandment,"Do not covet." The workers resent the boss. Marx wrote that the bosses are "stealing" the "surplus labor" from the workers, and this falsehood is what gave the communists the "right" to kill the "bosses" and the landowners. It's called "Class War." But Class War led to Race War when the fascists and Hitler said that Jews and other "subhumans" were behind Karl Marx because they were inferior and had to steal rather than work. And so "Arbeit Mach Frei" was born. Class war led to Race War in WWII.

Oct. 01 2013 01:38 PM
thebuzzkill from Manhattan

Right ON John this SEEMS to be about as valid as the right wing mind tricksters attempts to demonize liberals and the left in the USA .. and as usual, it's the same old suspects, rich landowners and the 1% who held the Chinese peasants as slaves .... I notice that this author NEVER mentions the facts you brought up... the hatred of that class by the peasants was why the revolution succeeded and was prosecuted with such fervor..... you do NOT take over China without popular support .. what did this privileged class do to create such hatred ? Answer THAT Mr DiKotter....

This guy is just completely reworking history towards his political bent... There were no "sides" in Korea... Read the Origins of the Korean War by B Cummings.. this scholarly book details the Myths behind the US version of that war ... his disdain for the revolution can barely be contained .. yet he side steps the facts that John Coppola brought out....
Is this the Hannity show?

Oct. 01 2013 01:30 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

Mao modelled his collectivization drive on what Stalin and his commissars did in the Ukraine from 1929-1932. Actually, the news of these atrocities helped the Nazis to gain power in the last election. It made Germans listen more to Hitler, and his claim that Bolshevism was nothing other than a Jewish plot, which in turn eventually led to the Holocaust. Thankfully, Mao had no Jews in his commissariat.

Oct. 01 2013 01:27 PM
john from office

Jgarbuz, you are correct, but you will never hear of it. Remember the killing fields, after the Vietnam war? The left never covered it.

Oct. 01 2013 01:24 PM
thebuzzkill from Manhattan

Wait .. did this guest say that the citizens of Chang Chun were locked in and starved or they were isolated until the ROC soldiers gave up.. if the latter, then you have to blame Chiang Kai Shek's troups for this incident ... they should have immediately given up ... it looks like they are responsible not the communists ... they were holding the city in hostage because they did not want to admit a obvious defeat... if the former than LinPiao was a criminal.... but if the latter this guy just tried to do a Jedi mind trick by blaming the wrong army...

I am no fool

Oct. 01 2013 01:19 PM
John Coppola from Mount Vernon

I would like to know if the author knows about the 600,000 common people who were part of the Southern Communist bloc and anyone who sympathized with Communism who were starved, shot or beheaded by the Nationalist Kuomintang during Chiang Kai Shek's five attempts to eliminate all Communism from China in the late 1930's? How about the Communists who were summarily executed by being shot through the head right in the middle of the streets of Shanghai by the Nationalists right before they knew they would lose the city? How about the Nationalists using ruthless warlords who were really wealthy landlords to try to eliminate all Communism from China. And how about the question of Chiang Kai Chek's willingness to negotiate with the Japanese and allow them to ruthlessly occupy Northern China and instead dedicate his troops to fighting against Communism instead? Mao Zedong's second wife, two brothers, and stepsister were all murdered by the Nationalists.

Oct. 01 2013 01:19 PM
Amy from Manhattan

Did "losing China" to Communism lead to the US's involvement in the Korean & Vietnam wars, & its later backing of any government, no matter how oppressive, that called itself anti-Communist?

Oct. 01 2013 01:18 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

The extreme Left murdered many times more people than all the fascists and the Nazis combined.

Oct. 01 2013 01:11 PM

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