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Family Ties

Tuesday, August 17, 2010

Colleen Kelly, co-founder of September 11th Peaceful Tomorrows, an organization founded by family members of those killed on September 11th, and Peter Gadiel, Founder of the 9/11 Families for a Secure America Foundation, on how 9/11 families and their opinions are portrayed in the media.

Guests:

Peter Gadiel and Colleen Kelly

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Comments [130]

Michael from Brooklyn

Gary from Queens,

Regarding the link, so AIG is operating under Sharia law? I haven't heard of that. Why? I'll try to keep an open mind and see if that's really true about AIG, but can't really understand how that could be.

I think you missed my point. Maybe it's unfair and un-constitutional to take the right of all Christians to erect churches, just as it might be un-constitutional to deprive Muslims the right to have community centers, simply because some people attacked our country in the name of Islam.

I am angry about the way some people use religion to ostracize people and make them sub-human. But that shouldn't mean we should deny all Christians a house of worship.

Aug. 22 2010 12:05 AM
gary from queens

DEAR Michael Chabler

I will concede that most Christian denominations say that homosexuality is wrong. But the fate you alluded to is in the domain of God. The Church does not issue fatwahs to people or governments to kill gays. Only Islamic clerics and government do that.

If you are concerned about virulently anti gay religion influencing the US government, then get concerned about islam: the obama admin is using tax money to support jihad against the US:

w w w.nationalreview.com/articles/243717/american-taxpayer-financial-jihadist-andrew-c-mccarthy

Elena Kagan and other top officials support it too.

Aug. 21 2010 10:13 AM
Michael Chabler from Bushwick, Brooklyn

As a resident of Bushwick, in Brooklyn, I'd like to put in a request to stop and possibly dismantle all Christian places of worship.

A little over a year ago, two brothers were walking arm in arm in Bushwick. A group of people got out of a car yelling anti-latino and homophobic slurs and hit one of them on the head with a baseball bat so severely that it swelled up to several times its size.

While Christianity does not explicitly condone murder, there has been acceptance of certain fates that "non-believers" and "sinners" might meet. It has also been one of the main institutions in our country fomenting homophobia and a hatred of even the appearance of homosexuality, e.g., two brothers.

As a human being and resident of Bushwick, I object to the presence of Christian churches in this area. Will any politician take a stand on this?

If the "Ground Zero Mosque" is not to be allowed, certainly there should be a precedent for my request.

Aug. 19 2010 10:35 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

continued:

So forgetting for the moment the mass murder of infidels and apostates, or the treatment of women as chattel, or the forced marriage of 9 year old girls—this idea that war is an inevitable and constant part of life is the most alien and nihilistic philosophy that western liberal societies have ever faced. Even Sun Tzu, in The Art of War, wrote: “There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.” Sun Tzu never met the likes of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

As unfathomable as westerners find this nihilism and acceptance of war as a normal state of affairs, you would think they would at least recognize, as Hugh Fitzgerald noted on Jihadwatch.com on November 16, 2008, the evidence that Muslim Arabs had not “shown themselves willing to stick to treaties” they made with Infidel states, and as Majid Khadduri noted, such treaties are made to be broken, on the model of Al-Hudaibiyya. Fitzgerald explained that one might begin with Majid Khadduri’s War and Peace in the Law of Islam, which among many scholars, spelled out “that no treaty signed by Muslims with Infidels should be permanently obeyed, but regarded as necessarily to be breached when the occasion presents itself.”

That is also why I do not believe Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. A man who is on tape supporting Hamas.

Aug. 18 2010 02:37 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

I will not scan this page for updates any further. I'm done on this. I will leave everyone with the following observations. People with civil rebuttals may email me privately. (intelligent rebuttals, "JP").

The islamists won on this matter. The "Fitna" strategy that those Muslim reformers wrote about in that article I posted neglected to explain how. i will tell you how. There were only two outcomes to the Fitna plan (mischief): Either the Mosque gets built, and it's a propaganda victory for islamists. A place where no non muslims can step foot into, and a place that teaches Sharia---which was the philosophy that destroyed 3K lives and part of lower manhattan. OR, the mosque will not be built, and the result will be continued schisms among Americans, and usual handringing among liberals.

It was always a win - win for them. They are smart strategists. We are not. We dont do strategy. We just want the war to stop. We won't even admit its a war! They want the conflict to continue. Let me explain how we differ from islamists in this important respect:

Liberal democracies strive to avoid war, and to limit the duration of armed conflict. For them, war is the aberrant state of affairs. Syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer often enjoys saying (paraphrasing), “The U.S. is the only (supposed) empire that insists on an exit strategy.” I watched (on CSPAN, 3/22/07) Rep. Kathy Castor (D-FL) on the House floor urge her colleagues to end their support for “Bush-Cheney’s war without end.” Speaker Pelosi used the same phrase in a press conference the following day to announce Democrats’ “victory” to terminate funding of our forces in Iraq. Why? For most Americans, wars are intolerable and must have an end to them. Just this week, Obama gave a speech in which he was congratulating himself in his prediction that next year the US will end the conflict in Afghanistan. Just ending it. Nothing about winning it.

In contrast, jihadists embrace a cult of death. Following the 9-11 attack, Ossama bin Laden said, “We love death. The US loves life. That is the big difference between us.” The jihadists’ greatest weapon is the knowledge that liberal democracies cannot tolerate prolonged war as the norm—that all wars must come to an end for normalcy to return. Jihadism believes in war without end, and martyrdom as a central reward. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who has reportedly admitted planning the 911 attacks on the U.S., said “war is life.”

Aug. 18 2010 02:34 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear amalgam from Manhattan:

YOU WRITE:
Where do you think you live where Sharia law will take over? Europe?
----------------> It has already done so. You guys said it would never happen. But look now. Sharia courts in the UK have already ruled on forced marriages and ransom allegations. Not the way you would approve. they apply to muslims so far. it's only a matter of time before they rule on honor killings or stoning to death adulterers. and time they have. Let me know when the jews set up their own courts to rule on grave matters of due process and personal liberties. Something more serious than keeping kosher.

YOU WRITE:
argument that sets up a baseless, strawman construction.
-----------------> Fine, that is your conclusion. But we read McCarthy's arguments. let's hear yours. (Hint: saying that you support the first amendment is not an argument.)

YOU WRITE:
What about REAL demographic pressures facing the U.S. (viz. Latino population growth)?
------------------> you are an elitist in manhattan who doesn't even know someone with a blue collar job. I had a blue collar job. I know people who are blue collar. people who work with their hands. A master carpenter's base pay, for example, who took 17 years to hone his craft and resume reputation, went from $25/hr to $15/hr. This kind of decline in wages is affecting working families in many of the affected states (affected by mass immigration).

We are americans. we should look after americans first. that is in the constitution. YES my dear, didn't you know?! The constitution applies solely to americans. Not mexicans. When a mexican gets a parkling ticket in mexico, it is issued by mexican police. it is not issued by american police. We have no control over mexicans, and mexicans have no obligation to follow US laws. The constitution is a contract solely between our government and our people. the US gov is responsible for the well being and interests of US citizens, not mexican citizens----be they in mexico or the US illegally.

Aug. 18 2010 01:36 PM
Lisa from Brooklyn

I was shocked by Mr. Gadiel's harsh, insulting and angry words to Ms. Kelly. He represented his organization poorly. While I definitely support a moderator's even hand, I wish Mr. Lehrer had stepped in to a degree because it was a sickening assault. I would have liked to hear a real discussion.

Aug. 18 2010 01:30 PM
amalgam from Manhattan by day, NJ by night

@ gary krasner from Queens -

Utter balderdash. Where do you think you live where Sharia law will take over? Europe?

You're article is worthless because it's an isolated event that extends nowhere and, again, an argument that sets up a baseless, strawman construction. Plus, it's from the ultra- right-wing mag National Review...very biased.

You say: "It will take generations for the complete take over. But they embrace the long perpetual war. We don't. We immediately look for exit strategies."

There is NO chance - nil - that "muslims" will take over America and apply Sharia law. Demographics, again, prove your point risible and without merit.

What about REAL demographic pressures facing the U.S. (viz. Latino population growth)? From your tone, I have a feeling that you're interested in mass deportations, building walls, and keeping out those baby-dropping "terrorists."

Glad that we have the 1st Amend. guarantee of free speech and that you and I can speak our opinions loudly. But just because you have strong, reactionary opinions, don't mean they are correct or factual.

Aug. 18 2010 09:40 AM
Edward from NJ

Sharia finance is to an Islamic takeover of America as kosher food is to a Jewish takeover of America.

Aug. 18 2010 09:37 AM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear amalgam from Manhattan:

Correction to my earlier answer. Sharia compliant finance is not just in states like minnesota. It is all over the U.S. now. Read:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243717/american-taxpayer-financial-jihadist-andrew-c-mccarthy

Andrew C. McCarthy
August 14, 2010 4:00 A.M.
American Taxpayer, Financial Jihadist
Thanks to our takeover of AIG, we now are involved in Islamic finance.

They are in it to win it. We are ignorant fools. Or at least you and your ilk are.

It will take generations for the complete take over. But they embrace the long perpetual war. We don't. We immediately look for exit strategies.

Aug. 18 2010 07:09 AM
Jon Pope from Hackensack

Oh Garry….

You’re good at cut and paste. But you run and hide when your aksed to answer questions…

My Questions were are quite simple. Why no answers?

Well I guess you are the strawman after all.

Aug. 17 2010 07:20 PM
Jon Pope from Hackensack

Garry.

You have the nerve to call me the strawman but yet you refuse to answer any of my questions on my last couple of posts. But you have tried insult me instead. Why is that? So please answer my questions and quit pussy footing around. Here, let me repost them for you.

Why did you accuse me of hiding when I clearly stated my name? Does my name sound made up? Any more then Gary Krasner does? And why is that? What kind of assumptions are you making? And if you’re an atheist and McVeigh was a Jew, why would you feel slight humiliation? You’re an atheist not a Jew. How can you be both? You still have not stated that Muslims are protected under the first amendment. Why?

Now don’t give me a bunch of dribble, just give me answers to all my questions please. By the way, added insults just makes you look desperate.

Aug. 17 2010 06:55 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

SOURCES:

another attempt:

w w w .khouse.org/articles/2007/691/
w w w .wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Tunisian_Envoy
w w w .americanvision.org/3373/thomas-jefferson-and-the-ground-zero-mosque/

Aug. 17 2010 06:45 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Another myth besides Tim McVeigh---the christian fundamentalist---is what Obama propagated last Friday in his speech at a white house dinner celebrating Ramadan (so much for separation of church-state!!)

First, Pres Jefferson never called it an "Ishtar dinner". Refer to the jefferson library (below). nowhere does it say that jefferson knew it was even Ramadan.

Second, Obama claiming that Jefferson's guest was "the first Muslim ambassador to the United States, from Tunisia" is incorrect too. Tunisia wasnt even a state when Jefferson was president.

The "ambassador" was merely a representative or envoy from the muslim pirates in Tripoli, and he came for dinner at the Jefferson White House to extort money from the US. "Pay the ransom, President Jeferson, if you want us to return the american hostages!" Some supposed "ishtar dinner"! Somehow Professor Obama left out that tidbit.

And ranson was never paid. Jefferson and Madison went to war with the muslims. the slogan then was: "millions for war, not a penny for ransom."

Jefferson despised Islam. Just more Obama distortions. He's making Bush look like a great truth teller! This is supposed to be the professorial president?!

SOURCES:

Blocked by the blog's filters

Aug. 17 2010 06:38 PM
Jon Pope from hackensack

Garry,

I suggest you join a crazy Christian militia if the thought of Muslims with guns lurking in the woods keeps you up at night. But I must ask, why did you accuse me of hiding when I clearly sated my name? Does my name sound made up? Any more then Gary Krasner does? And why is that? What kind of assumptions are you making? And if you’re an atheist and McVeigh was a Jew, why would you feel slight humiliation? You’re an atheist not a Jew. How can you be both? You still have not stated that Muslims are protected under the first amendment. Why?

Aug. 17 2010 06:38 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear Jon Pope "JP" from Hackensack "NJ" :

You need to attend a remedial class in reading comprehension:

I did NOT say Islam was not a religion! I wrote in several places that it was a religion to which civilian rules of governance was integral to the theology. i'm not a religious scholar, but every religous scholar i read agrees with that.

Leaders of the other major religions throughout history have incorporated aspects of their religion into the civil laws of their societies. But none of the core scriptures of those religions even suggests----let alone mandates----the comprehensive civilian, social, and economic laws found in the koran, sura, and hadith.

If Timothy McVeigh was jewish, I would feel slight humiliation that he shared the same ethnic heritage as I. I don't feel responsible for his acts, to be sure. But it is normal and appropriate to feel some level of opprobrium or dishonor. But you may disagree. It doesn't matter. Apparently Muslims also disagree on this. So your greatly miscontrue me. I do not find muslims guilty by association of their religion. But I suspect this is another strawman argument.

YOU WRITE:
"you will never convince me that there would ever be justification for changing the first amendment"

Sir, you are dead from the neck up. Of that I'm convinced. I never said we must change the constitution. another desperate strawman argument. And I would never try to convince you. That would be futile. (refer to the aforementioned "dead from the neck up" for explanation.)

Aug. 17 2010 06:10 PM
Jon Pope from Hackensack

Garry,

Are you blind? How am I staying anonymous by clearly stating Jon Pope form Hackensack? That’s my name and where I live you moron. Or do you have a problem with my name and where I live? Who’s the idiot? You’ve just proven you see what you want to see. So please state that American Muslims are protected under the first amendment if you actually feel they are protected. Otherwise, I really don’t care about your delusional ranting…

Aug. 17 2010 06:06 PM
sharf from ny

muzlins build victory mosks' after terror

Aug. 17 2010 05:49 PM
bill from jersey cty

first ammendment has nothing tgo dol with it being an offensive pig to a wounded city is the pt

Aug. 17 2010 05:48 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Jon Pope "JP":

STRAWMAN! The only way you can win an argument is to fabricate what I supposedly said. Show me where I wrote that muslim's first amendment rights should be violated?! I explained how zoning laws are within Constitutional bounds. that's all.

Muslim radicals have hundreds of military training camps all over the US. They are well armed and well trained to shoot you when the time comes. But don't worry, if your views prevail, your dead corpse will be your legacy to "freedom of religion." At least your version of it. Your legacy would continue the long line of democracies that were killed by pretenders who eradicated democracy after winning one election----like German in the 30s, up to Venzuela today.

My version is different. The Constitution also has provisions against insurrection. And Sharia is clearly anti first amendment. Not even you are dumb enough to try to refute that.

For someone like you who claims that rights cannot be denied to groups, perhaps you should not castigate groups without knowing where of you speak. Many friends of mine in anti vaccine groups support the GZM.

You shot yourself in the foot. But hey, remaining anonymous keeps you from the humiliation you would otherwise receive for being an idiot.

Aug. 17 2010 05:21 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Please read what genuine freedom loving Muslims feel about the GZM:

"Mischief in Manhattan":
We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation

By Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah
Citizen Special, August 17, 2010

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html

Raheel Raza is author of Their Jihad ... Not my Jihad, and Tarek Fatah is author of The Jew is Not My Enemy (McClelland & Stewart), to be launched in October. Both sit on the board of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

Aug. 17 2010 04:21 PM
Edward from NJ

I pretty much agree with Jon Stewart, and I'm pretty sure you haven't actually watched his show Gary.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade

Aug. 17 2010 04:17 PM
Jon Pope "JP" from Hackensack "NJ"

Gary Krasner from queens

First, your definition of Islam not being a religion would make just about all main stream religions not a “religion” here and elsewhere around the world. You keep bringing up Timothy McVeigh. If he was an atheist, then does that not make you, an atheist, also a terrorist? No, of course not. But you seem hell bent on pegging all Muslims are plotted against America.

Second, why would anyone get their views or news form John Stewart. He’s satirist, pop culture, not a legitimate anchor man…

Third, where do you get off on calling me a liberal? You have no idea who I am and I have made no assumptions that you are a liberal or a conservative. And quite frankly I don’t care. I know a lot of smart people on both sides and I know a lot of ignorant racist people on both sides.

Forth, I’m sorry but you will never convince me that there would ever be justification for changing the first amendment which the Muslim religion is protected just like all other religions. Your views to me are no more then racist paranoia. But that’s your right to freedom of speech. Something I would never want to deny you no matter what garbage and hate you might be spewing…

Aug. 17 2010 04:07 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Judging by the responses, my arguments seem to be unassailable:

Islam is not just a religion. Islam includes detailed political, social and economic dictums that are abhorent to our liberal traditions and constitution. Those are facts.

Before we can even discuss how a free society can fairly and constitutionally restrict the spread of these insurrectionist components of Islam, we first need to admit that they exist. no one who supports the GZM will even acknowledge this dilemma. not one person. All I hear are plattitudes that you guys support religious freedom.

You also employ incredulous "facts". The myth that Tim McVeigh is pervassive among liberals especially, and isn't even relevant, as he is one anomolous individual, and not a philosophy.

McVeigh has been accurately quoted as saying that "science was his 'religion'." He said that he didn't care about the consequences of his act because he didn't believe in heaven or hell.

As an atheist, who wrote a lengthy column in support of separation of church and state and against the pledge of allegiance in schools, on an ultra conservative website (americandaily.com), I apologize on behalf of atheists for his actions. It's shameful
to be associated, no matter how tenuous, with such a person.

And not even Jon Stewart is with you on this. watch his recent criticism of Obama on his show.

Aug. 17 2010 03:44 PM
Jon Pope "JP" from Hacnesack "NJ"

Gary Krasner from queens

Sorry, the first amendment does not allow you or any group to pick and choose who it protects and who it doesn’t. Like it or not, that’s they way it works. Its all spelled out in black and white. Your long winded excuse to hate American Muslims is delusional at best to support your racism of all American Muslims. For that reason I’m not surprised you’re against vaccinations. But hey that’s your constitutional right to think vaccinations are bad, right? Watch what you wish for when you want to change the rules the constitution clearly spells out for all. For that reason I have no patience for people like you who want to change the constitution to fit their own agenda. Might I suggest you move to the Middle East where they have no issues oppressing freedom of speech or religion.

Aug. 17 2010 03:25 PM
Edward from NJ

Gary, while I honestly believe that your anti-vaccine arguments are highly irrational, I do apologize for calling you a nut. My intent was to merely raise your ire and that was inappropriate. True, this forum relatively anonymous, but if I were to say anything truly inappropriate, the BL show knows who I am and is free to censor my comments.

Aug. 17 2010 03:13 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear Edward from NJ

You are right, I and the "anti-vaccine nut." And since this blog apparently permits invective and personal attacks, I will stray briefly from attacking arguments and observe that you are among many on this list who will not stand behind your real names and defend your views. You can make irresponsible statements without consequence, because you remain anonymous. That is why it is YOUR credibilty that is lacking. Not mine. Hence, you are a coward.

Aug. 17 2010 03:02 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear JP from NJ :

Your questions betray a lack of comprehension to my arguments. Perhaps you should read my essay here to understand my position:

http://americanewsjournal.com/index.php/more/1029

I resent the general posture that most on this blog proffer-----that one who opposes the construction of this mosque is bigoted in some way. I am from a liberal background originally. I do not harbor racist or ethnic superiority. Certainly not religious ones, being an atheist. yet I'm the one that must prove I'm not evil? And in the face of what? Arguments?! There have been no real arguments made from your side. Just plattitudes. Saying that you support the First Amendment is not an "argument" anyone disagrees with. (Except an honest islamist.) They are plattitudes

If you are genuinely interested in motive. Read Andrew McCarthy or Jihadwatch.com. They argue that Islam----not muslims!---is a doctrine that is not solely religious. It's mainstream laws are Sharia, and El Qaeda etal. use that law to justify jihad-----their struggle to serve Islam, and serving islam means to spread islam, which the koran says can be done through lies and subterfuge, through subversive peacefull means or violent. Whichever, it is insurrectionist. That means fight against it is NOT opposing the Constitution. It is in fact protecting it.

People on my side of this issue realize that Islam cannot reform itself unless it faces its own contradictions with modernity and liberal thought and institutions. I---the conservative---is more protective of these liberties than you! Islam must reform or be destroyed. They only reason we even notice such failed states in the mideast is because of oil. reformist muslims brave enough to risk death for apostasy must be supported.

If we do not petition Islam in the manner conservatives are learning we must, then violent jihadists will continue to recruit terrorists by showing how they have failed to obey the koran----the violent and tyrannical last half of it. young and old. Read "The Al Qaeda Reader", by Raymond Ibrahim. Ossama was motivated by islamic theology----by his own words to intimates----and not because of US imperialism and global warming! Those are pretexts, not genuine rationales. they were issued for liberals to grab onto and cause dissent within our ranks.

There is a bill in Congress that would prohibit the teaching of sharia in madrases in the US, because it teaches insurrection. It is not about free speech, because the supreme court doesnt consider indoctrination of children protected speech. I am not aware of any other legislation that is considered oppressive. Asking that a mosque not be built in a place that killed people in the name of islam is hardly oppressive!!

Aug. 17 2010 02:40 PM
Edward from NJ

Gary, now I remember why I recognized your name. You're that anti-vaccine nut. I see no point in engaging with you further.

Aug. 17 2010 02:40 PM
JP from NJ

Gary Krasner from queens

I disagree with most of what you say. But I ask you this, do you believe the 1st amendment does not apply to ALL Americans? Muslim Americans need not apply? After all, there where no Muslim Americans in the 9-11 bombing. But are you saying we are at war with fellow Americans? Or are you saying no Muslim could be an American? So were the Japanese internment camps justified during WWII even though very few American Germans where locked up for being German?

Aug. 17 2010 01:59 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear JP from NJ:

Perhaps you are the one "blind to reality". Timothy McVeigh had never uttered words to indicate that he killed in the name of Christianity. And I'm an atheist with no dog in this race. But unlike you, I read many websites and the documentation that indicates that McVeigh was even religious is NONEXISTENT.

"Can you show me any Christian leaders denouncing that act?" ANSWER: It was not incumbent upon Christian and Jewish leaders to do so, because McVeigh never proclaimed his affiliation with a religious group. Again, this is a myth.

Where are all the Christians protesting all the abortion doctor killings? ANSWER: Most Christians and jews abhore violence. By contrast, most muslims in the US when polled felt that killing on site, in any muslim nation, any US troop was justified. even in iraq and afghanistan. There are sizable muslim minorities who feel even terrorism is justified. THERE ARE NO MUSLIM GROUPS PROTESTING JIHAD.

Where are all the Christian groups protesting all the American Christian solders killing Iraqis and Afghans? ANSWER: We are not intentionally killing non combattants. that is terrorism defined by the UN. Terrorism, and most of the killings of innocent people, is done by muslim jihadists, and they are proud of it, because sharia justifies it.

Violence is starting back up again in Northern Ireland. Over 10,000 people killed there in the last few decades, where’s the outrage from protestants and Catholics on that one? ANSWER: This is a local dispute concerning denominations within one religion. Whereas Sharia and jihad (the mandate for all muslims to spread islam where there is no islam) are DOCTRINES to install a socio economic, political ,and religious system upon unwilling people. big difference.

How about the Christian genocide of the American Indian that went well into the 20th century? ANSWER: Even granting that we were the most unethical parties in that struggle, we are not responsible for actions of our forebears. You are not responsible for crimes your father may have committed. We as a people only have control over our current public affairs, and actions we are about to take. Not over actions other people committed in the past.

There have been 12,000 violent jihadist attacks throughout the world since 911. (There are so few violent acts by non muslims that you need to create a myth that Tim McVeigh was a religous fanatic----2 decades ago no less!) There will be more unless we adopt the correct pubblic policies to stem shariah's encroachments. Christians who protest abortion clinics are not insurrectionist acts against our constitution. Even the violent bombings or killings, are not insurrectionist, nor even approved of by the hierachy of the cartholic church. By contrast, violent jihad is not only approved of by the leading clerics in the mideast, they issue the intefadas and fatwahs that implement these acts.

Aug. 17 2010 01:43 PM
Dalia from NJ

I hope the production team is reading this...i am very disappointed this show had a guest that is clearly racist. I appreciate everyone's right to speak freely but please don't put on the facade of having a rational discussion on what should happen w/ this center. This man cannot have a reasonable discussion about this issue because he is a racist. I wonder if you would have a skin-head on to discuss the Chicago family that refused to sell their home to a black couple. I am a fan of the show but this has really been disappointing.

Aug. 17 2010 01:39 PM
Gary Krasner from queens

Dear amalgam from Manhattan:

Sharia law is not practiced in most areas of the US. But many muslims are petitioning local governments for special dispensations, anywhere from public facilities for cleaning ones feet, to special religious holidays. "Sharia finance"---which supports violent and peaceful "stealth" jihad----is a component of Sharia, and it has been instituted in Minnesota and other areas, plus it's being promoted by the Obama Admin. That part of sharia has made the greatest inroads.

Mainstream islamic jurisprudence requires all muslims to spread sharia into the governments under which they live. They are accomplishing this in european democracies----though peaceful democratic mechanisms----because their demographic "weapon" has been effective. immigration, and refusal to assimilate----because their religious authorities issue contracts on the lives of apostates, even in Europe. There are sharia legal courts in places like Europe. these are real courts with real jurisdictions over residents in certain areas, and certainly over muslims in the UK.

Sharia (and wohabbism) is taught in madrases all the US, indoctrinating american children to oppose our constitutional freedoms. When do you wish to take a stand? When we no longer have the freedoms you espouse?

Look at Turkey. Before 1993, it was a secular democracy. But in just the subsequent 8 yrs, the islamists turned it into a sharia state, with most of its personal liberties replaced by the religious tyranny of Islam, and its sharia rules.

Aug. 17 2010 01:09 PM
gary krasner from queens

Dear Edward from NJ :

Yes, i have heard of the free exercise and establishment clauses. I have written about them. i am also the author of 3 bills in albany in which my coaltion seeks to overturn the current regime that violates those precepts when parents are forced into tribunals to prove to government officials that they are religious enough to qualify for the religous waiver from school vaccinations.

And therein is the flaw in your "argument": The Constitution and even the bill of rights are blueprints from which laws are made. We must follow the law----whereas the courts interpret their constitutional efficacy when disputes arise. So let's look at the laws: (1) Laws are interpreted by the public---through our reps. federal laws can designate sharia as an insurrectionist doctrine. It's been done with other groups. But conditional on action vs advocacy of violent action. Sharia advocates both----peacef (2) local ordinaces and community groups can designate certain areas off limits to certain businesses and religious structures. It's done everyday. It can be done at GZ too.

AGAIN---if Nazis in the US in 1940 had annexed religious doctrine to its political ideology, we would not be debating their right to construct a nazi cultural center ANYWHERE, let alone at a jewish memorial site.

Aug. 17 2010 12:48 PM
Camille from New Jersey

Thank you, Brian, for being one of the few people to refer to the planned structure as what it is.... a cultural center.

Aug. 17 2010 12:47 PM
JP from NJ

MJ from Newark

OK, try this. Americans are Americans, no matter race or religion. The constitution protects ALL Americans that abide by constitutional law. Read the first amendment. It’s all there in black and white. It does not matter what you think or I think, the 1st amendment trumps all. The constitution also protects us from any kind of delusional religious takeover. But if you start making exceptions in the constitution, then a cultural center near ground zero will be the least of our worries…

Aug. 17 2010 12:46 PM
JP from NJ

lisa from ny ny

That’s a piss poor argument at best. We were at war with the country of Japan, not Japanese Americans. Although we did have internment camps for Japanese Americans during WWII. Are you saying this was the right thing to do? Are you saying we should have internment camps for Muslim Americans? By the way there is a war memorial for Japanese Americans who fought in WWII in DC. Are you against that to?

Aug. 17 2010 12:33 PM
lisa from ny ny

JP from NJ

according to you we should build a cultural Japanese Center at Pearl harbor

are people really this dense?

Aug. 17 2010 12:09 PM
MJ from Newark

JP from NJ

So you are incapable of addressing an issue without comparing it to an unrelated issue?

Aug. 17 2010 12:07 PM
JP from NJ

John Smith from NYC Center of Freedom For the Whole Wide World

And what do Christian missionaries all over the world do when they have destroyed local culture by converting the locals to Christianity? Build churches…. Read up on Christianity destroying the native American culture right here in America going well into the 20th century.

Aug. 17 2010 11:59 AM
John Smith from NYC Center of Freedom For the Whole Wide World

This dude really needs a mosque on that space? He absolutely only has to have it there knowing the discomfort it would cause? No other location is acceptable? This was unknowingly to him a catalyst for things he couldn't predict? GIVE ME A BREAK! The idiots out there who don't know that Arabs build mosques as victory sites after attacks all over the world and manufacture slogans for magnets and bumperstickers such as, "Freedom was Attacked," are blind to the real purposes of insidious Islam.

Aug. 17 2010 11:37 AM
JP from NJ

Oops, that’s Timothy McVeigh not Mcain...

Aug. 17 2010 11:30 AM
JP from NJ

gary krasner from Queens

My you’re your blind to reality. Read up on Timothy McCain. He killed in the name of Christianity. Can you show me any Christian leaders denouncing that act? Where are all the Christians protesting all the abortion doctor killings? Thou shell not kill is one of the 10 commandments. Its quite black and white, no exceptions for any reason. Where are all the Christian groups protesting all the American Christian solders killing Iraqis and Afghans? Violence is starting back up again in Northern Ireland. Over 10,000 people killed there in the last few decades, where’s the outrage from protestants and Catholics on that one? How about the Christian genocide of the American Indian that went well into the 20th century? I can go on and on. Face the hard core reality that everybody has blood on their hands.

Aug. 17 2010 11:27 AM
amalgam from Manhattan by day, NJ by night

@ gary krasner from Queens -

Where in the USA is Sharia law practiced and regarded as equivalent to our federal laws? All laws - religious and otherwise - stop at the United States' secular borders and all people inherently subject to U.S. law.

There is no debate.

You are arguing Sharia law in the U.S. to a straw man...

Aug. 17 2010 11:27 AM
Edward from NJ

@gary krasner from Queens,
Perhaps you've heard of a document called the United States Constitution. The first amendment to that document has two clauses regarding religion. The free exercise clause -- among other things -- allows people to set up churches, temples, and mosques pretty much where ever they can purchase private property to do so. The establishment clause prevents people from imposing all the bat-$#!t-crazy sharia law blather that you're ranting about. See how beautifully that works?

Aug. 17 2010 11:24 AM
Leo Ferguson

Hallowed Ground?

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

Aug. 17 2010 11:16 AM

You want to know what the Crusaders sounded like way back when as they made their case for religious domination? the mixture of fear and anger in Peter's voice, even without his argurments that "none of them people can be trusted" At least Reagan got one thing right. "Trust but Verify."
and for real paranoia try this
Wyatt Cenac on NY Muslims: "They're Everywhere"
Wyatt Cenac fears that Muslims will take over by building mosques every two blocks until New York City is completely covered. http://www.newslook.com/videos/240424-wyatt-cenac-on-ny-muslims-they-re-everywhere?autoplay=true

Aug. 17 2010 11:14 AM
gary krasner from Queens

Dear Charles E from Brooklyn:

"Virtually everything he says about Islam could be said about Christianity."?! NOT SO: There is no other major religion which publishes in it's holiest scripture (ie the Koran) the universal, unconditional, direct-from-God, command to “kill all non-believers wherever you find them.” Yes, there were wars over property, family groups, and even religious issues among early Jews and Christians. But there's nothing like the universal, unconditional, direct-from-God, commandments you read in the Koran. Commandments that apply into perpetuity.

"What does he think the Crusades were all about?" ANSWER: You must go back HUNDREDS OF YEARS to make this point?! Besides, the Crusades was nothing more significant than than Christianity making a feeble attempt to recapture their land in the east from Muslims----WHO HAD CONQUORED IT FOR ISLAM.

"Christians advocate the murder of abortion providers and homosexuals." Christian authorities in the vatican and everywhere condemn such behavior, and such behavior is against the law in the nations which harbor the religion. BY CONTRAST, Muslim authorities everywhere support the doctrine and practice of Sharia, and such behavior is codified in the law in the nations which incorporate Sharia into their civil laws. Christianity is not part of US law. I don't have to pray to Jesus or eat fish on Friday. I can get an abortion. etc.

Look at Sharia law and the laws that reflect Sharia in many nations: It mandates the dealth penalty for apostasy (Muslims who renounce Islam); the treatment of women as chattel, and the forced marriage of pre-pubescent girls, and the torturing to death of female adulterers (just women, not men) and homosexuals.

Sharia is also clearly antithetical to the core values of western liberal democracies and representative government, because it represents Islamic literalism and the view that the Koran is the direct word of God, and not subject to interpretation by any person. (The Islamic doctrine of abrogation even made that official, especially for the most hateful last half of the Koran.) In other words, Islamic scriptures spell out the civilian laws for society, and “man” cannot make or change them. This directly conflicts with our system of making and amending laws through deliberation and popular mandates. Or in a word, democracy.

Aug. 17 2010 11:07 AM
Mike from NYU

Charles, fyi:
"tens of thousands" of Cathars were not killed. Read the register of Jacques Fornier. I think he kills 1 and 3 Waldensians.

As for the crusades, you're closer. The Christian sources report that the crusaders waded knee deep in blood when they took Jerusalem in 1099 but that is largely thought to be hyperbole and Jerusalem was inhabited by many non-Muslims as well. The crusaders did take over the mosques, I suppose thus desecrating them but Muslim sources report a few decades later that they were allowed to pray in the al-Aqsa while it was controlled by Templars.

For the most part after 1099 Muslim-Christian relations in the crusader states were pretty good. Intermarriage was taboo but there were certainly Muslim doctors at the Christian hospital and any good Christian cook worthy of his paycheck could make Islamic food and do so in accordance with their religious constraints.

On the other side of it, Saladin did not desecrate churches when he reconquered Jerusalem although he did return the mosques to Muslim decorum.

Aug. 17 2010 11:06 AM
skiff

I am convinced that 911 was masterminded by Americans. I always thought that "GZ" should have been plowed over into a graveyard. The true blame and shame was never explored. The event was never treated as the crime scene it actually was.
All of the neighborhoods in ALL of NYC have a sense of personality and this particular one is understandably hyper-sensitive to this issue. The city was locked down as far north as Union Square as the affected area during the painful early days passed from neighborhood to neighborhood. It was almost ten years ago, but the memories, bolstered by photos, still being hawked on the streets, clearly display the level and totality of the chaos. Had the community of this cultural center raised its profile in the time immediately following the horror and begun to help in the healing process for everybody at that time, the sincerity of what now seems like just another hot New York real estate mess would be less in question.
I believe it is a mistake for us as a culture to make places of worship shelters from taxation and the carte blanche assignment of privelege to religion is, when taken to the full length of debate, unconstitutional.

Aug. 17 2010 11:05 AM
amalgam from Manhattan by day, NJ by night

"Anti-mosquers" = Politically correct

Many people that are now in the anti-mosque group have traditionally harangued the left for saying that being sensitive to cultural groups, beliefs, etc., is "political correctness."

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

_The Anti-Mosque Movement is Politically Correct_

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/The-Anti-Mosque-Movement-i-by-J-Edward-Tremlett-100815-116.html

Aug. 17 2010 11:02 AM
Charles E from Brooklyn

Mr. Gadiel has not read history. Virtually everything he says about Islam could be said about Christianity. What does he think the Crusades were all about? Or the slaughter of tens of thousands of Cathars? Or the "missionaries" who deliberately seek to destroy indigenous cultures? What an arrogant, conceited hypocrite. I could as well say that I don't want a church built in my neighborhood because Christians advocate the murder of abortion providers and homosexuals.

Aug. 17 2010 10:46 AM
Janet from Bronxville

Please stop using the term "Islamic terrorist"
They are Al Qaida or anti American terrorists
- don't paint a religious group of over a billion
people as terrorists.

Also, the term " pro-life" is wrong. Everyone is pro-life. The correct term is "anti choice or
anti abortion". Don't let the enemy frame the argument.

Aug. 17 2010 10:45 AM
Ann M from Putnam County, NY

As a Christian Brit who is now a US citizen, I cannot help wondering when people are going to move beyond this event. Although I am very sorry for the deaths of the 9/11 victims, (and I know that some Brits were killed) I hope that we can return to being the compassionate and free people we once were. Peter's hatred could be heard in his comments. The peaceful group will be far more successful in eventually finding peace and meaning in their loved ones' deaths. Hatred never solved anything. We need to be vigilant about religious freedom and we must allow the community center to go forth.

Aug. 17 2010 10:44 AM
gary krasner from queens

This is not about muslims. It's about Sharia! Sharia will be taught and espoused at the mosque at GZ, just like it does at most mosques elsewhere.

So stipulating that most Muslims are peaceful individuals would be as relevant as stipulating that most Germans in 1940 were peaceful individuals. What matters is the ideology which they follow, and in democracies, which they vote into power. Sharia is a beligerant and intolerant ideology in all of its integrated components---theological, economic, and political.

I describe it in this brief essay: http://americanewsjournal.com/index.php/more/1029

I challenge anyone on this board to refute it.

It is not just about symbolism and sensitivity. It’s about Sharia. Bloomberg would never permit a ku kux klan center at ground zero to indoctrinate American children and spread its influence. Yet he seems very willing to permit the abhorent Sharia ideology on hallowed American soil.

It may be about time that Brian do a show exploring Sharia's doctrines. I would imagine if it were 1940, he would do the same for the Nazi doctrines.

Aug. 17 2010 10:41 AM
Eli from Manhattan

I know that most NYers try to be Politically Correct. But changing the Constitution because we are worried about the "feelings" of the 9/11 families seems to be the PC police on steroids.

Many people think that "PC" is a bad word. I suspect that many of those people are now imitating the PC police.

Aug. 17 2010 10:40 AM
C.G. from Manhattan

Brian,

I'm so disappointed! Jerry Nadler's questioned whether 9/11 families should be allowed to INFLUENCE the process. You allowed both of your guests to reframe the question as whether they should be allowed to CONTROL the process, which is a ridiculous proposition and self-evidently deniable. The heart of the matter lies in whether the community board, the preservation board, the charities bureau, the attorney general, and the present and future governors should allow the families to INFLUENCE official decisions.

Aug. 17 2010 10:37 AM

peter
why not have faith in people?

Aug. 17 2010 10:35 AM

Please, " September 11th Peaceful Tomorrows" and other liberal organizations, send someone who is PREPARED to debate aggressively such extreme right-wing views! Peter Gadiel speaks with SUCH force and certainty; she sweetly replies that he "has a right to his opinion, but..."

People like Peter Gadiel got Bush re-elected. They scare voters. There needs to be a much more aggressive retort to his statements.

Aug. 17 2010 10:34 AM
Michael from Brooklyn

What about Republicans? Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to come close to ground zero.

It was a Republican administration that was at least negligent in preventing the attacks. Then the administration reaped huge profits through a war in Iraq that had nothing to do with national security--any detective would follow the money and ask certain questions before letting people who would have certain motives off the hook.

To this day, they have not answered certain questions about what they knew and when they knew it.

I have long suspected that the Bush administration had enough information to prevent the attacks, but did nothing because they knew it would fit in well with their desire to make a war with Iraq. They knew they could confuse the American public by shifting blame around, since Iraq is a Muslim country.

Aug. 17 2010 10:33 AM
Mike from NYU

I don't know. Unless Brian stops calling it a Mosque and starts correcting the bigots he interviews I'm beginning to think that Brian secretly harbors some ill will towards this project as well.

Aug. 17 2010 10:33 AM
artista from greenpoint

so, the show gave us a chance to hear the grotesque hatred and even xenophobic mania of the right wing Mr. Gadiel (and I thought Deborah Burlingame was bad!).
But it was not OK for you, Brian, to allow that long breathless attack on your other guest without calling him out on it. She handled it gamely, but you did not do your job.
And please no more of this!

Aug. 17 2010 10:33 AM
C. Tennyson from Ridgewood, Queens

So Peter Gadial's argument seems to come down to, "I don't like Muslims." Wonderful. I can't believe that I'm writing this but even GEORGE W. BUSH spoke out in support of mainstream Islam, calling it a religion of peace. You know you're way of track if that horrible man is more reasonable than you. Shame on Gadial.

Aug. 17 2010 10:32 AM
Edward from NJ

@J. Joseph from New York, in their heyday the KKK hated the Catholic -- "Papist" -- church as much as they hated anyone.

Aug. 17 2010 10:32 AM
Mike from Inwood

Peter is a bitter person who has not moved past the events of 9/11 and the death within his family. He should stay indoors and deal with his feelings before he inflicts them on us.

Aug. 17 2010 10:31 AM
Norman from NYC

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Therefore he thinks he has a right to ignore the Constitution.

Un-American.

Aug. 17 2010 10:31 AM
Leah from Brooklyn

Mr. Gadiel, I lost a loved one to gang-related terrorism, so please know that my comment is rooted in a desire for your well-being. You need to get some better counseling and psychotherapy; your anger and grief drip from your every word, but you've allowed your feelings to calcify into hatred and paranoia. You will not find your peace by raging against a global religious system.

Aug. 17 2010 10:30 AM

Mr. Gadiel seems totally oblivious to the way his statements can be used by Bin Laden for recruiting.

He is the naive one. His lack of knowledge about Islam and terrorism makes him dangerous to his own "cause."

He conveniently forgets the past & current violent acts of various Christians.

His comments on Sharia law are funny. Does he also question the existence in the US of rabbinical law, Catholic or Episcopalian canon law, etc.? They all operate in the US in various forms.

Aug. 17 2010 10:30 AM
jgarbuz

The US and the West built up the Muslim world after WWI. After the defeat of the Ottoman empire, there were found only 22 million Arabs, all former subjects of the Sultan, living in abject poverty. Today there are 350 million Arabs, a 15-fold increase with leaders living in vast, ornate palaces rather than in tents. And all of this is due to one thing: the Western addiction to oil, which was discovered and developed by the West, and to which it addicted itself. Those Muslims who constantly criticize and lay their problems at the feet of the West should also learn that whatever wealth does exist in the Muslim world today is due to the massive wealth transfer from the West in exchange for their main product, petroleum which the West discovered and developed for them.

Aug. 17 2010 10:30 AM
Jack

As an American taxpayer and a Christian, I'm offended by the Right's purely ignoring facts: Christianity tramples many belief systems on its way to where we are today, we have had troops on Muslim holy ground for years - in illegal occupation, leaders of our country have been in bed w/ the Saudis and the bin Ladens in specific for years, and religious freedom extends to ALL religions. A tiny fraction of Muslims have expressed support for the war against American Imperialism, and the vast majority emphatically do not.

Aug. 17 2010 10:30 AM
Edward from NJ

Peter Gadiel is just a horrible person. I'm pretty sure his horribleness predates 9/11/2001.

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
J. Joseph from New York

No one ever opposed the building of a Catholic church, anywhere, though one could associate it with the KKK. Why? Because obviously the two are NOT mutually exclusive.

Building a Mosque is a real opportunity to educate people about what's what here. Most Muslims would agree that terrorism in the name of Allah is blasphemy. Get educated people!

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
Chrissy from Brooklyn

Ditto all complaints about Brian calling it the "Ground Zero mosque".

Also, can we stop saying "moslims"?

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
b

this guy is a hate monger

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
Eric from Manhattan

This guy is an idiot.

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
Matthew from Brooklyn

Do we ask where Catholic, Jewish, Protestant and Hindu organizations get their funding from? My god, this guy is absolutely appalling.

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
jgarbuz

The US and the West built up the Muslim world after WWI. After the defeat of the Ottoman empire, there were found only 22 million Arabs, all former subjects of the Sultan, living in abject poverty. Today there are 350 million Arabs, a 15-fold increase with leaders living in vast, ornate palaces rather than in tents. And all of this is due to one thing: the Western addiction to oil, which was discovered and developed by the West, and to which it addicted itself. Those Muslims who constantly criticize and lay their problems at the feet of the West should also learn that whatever wealth does exist in the Muslim world today is due to the massive wealth transfer from the West in exchange for their main product, petroleum which the West discovered and developed for them.

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
dwight from Brooklyn

I want to know what Peter's trust of Muslims was like before 9/11.

Aug. 17 2010 10:29 AM
Zach from UWS

Peter Gadiel is a bald-faced racist. "The pattern established by Muslims around the world..." What does that mean? He's basically claiming that 1.5 Billion people around the world are all liars, based purely on their religious convictions.

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
Leo Ferguson

I don't know why someone having a tragedy in their past means we have to listen to blatant, unrepentant bigotry. I'm sorry that this guy lost someone on 9/11, I really am. But he's not an expert or an -- well, anything really. He's just an angry old racist guy on the radio.

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
Bowery Boy from the bowery

Wow - this guy hates america and has no faith in our system of government and way of life. You can hear the anger dripping from his voice. It's so sad.

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
Katherine Jackson from LES

Please ask Peter why he only objects to the locating of the Mosque near the 9/11 site. His comments suggest that he thinks Muslims are inherently dangerous and that a mosque, no matter where on our soil, would be invaded by fundamentalists, etc. Should we outlaw mosques in the US altogether?

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
matt from Brooklyn

This dude is a straight up racist, pure and simple. Christians have been conquering other cultures for 2000 years.

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
Jack from Astoria

Peter Gadiel, you are rude, ill-informed, untruthful, and hateful. If you are in such high dudgeon about Saudi Arabia, why don't you stop using all Saudi oil?

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
Calabria Gale from LES

As a woman, I can find deep and disturbing faults with Islam, but I can also find those faults with Catholicism. In this country, we not only allow for religious pluralism, but we allow religions to exist on a spectrum of extremity. If we do not step in when evangelical Christians bomb and terrorize abortion clinics and ban their cultural institutions from our neighborhoods, then we have no grounds to ban a Muslim cultural institution based on their violence abroad.

Aug. 17 2010 10:28 AM
Norman from NYC

Peter Gadiel says that moslems around the world have told lies, therefore Daisy can't be believed.

I think that crosses the border into racism.

Aug. 17 2010 10:27 AM
John from Midtown East

Peter Gadiel, I would like to let you know that I lost my wife who worked in 1 WTC and my co-worker in 1 WTC where I worked on Sept 11th, and it seems you and the likes of you have hijacked the horrible event and turned it out for personal gain.
I have never said anything nor made any public comments in regard to issue but today you just pushed the every wrong thing in me.
You and your ignorant co-hordes seem to forget that there are over 30,000 WTC survivors who are living a very traumatic lives everyday.
You are out for not helping in the healing of this situation.

Aug. 17 2010 10:27 AM
Tony from NJ

Peter Gadial is a right wing nut job. Read their website publications and the hate of anyone who is non-white, non native board is pervasive. nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are referred to as agents of un-americanism? Fruitcake.

Aug. 17 2010 10:27 AM
Len Maniace from Jackson Heights

This is why the First Amendment includes religion - all religions, not just my religion. It's so easy to demonize the others.

Aug. 17 2010 10:27 AM
michael from brooklyn

Peter, go beat up on a punching bag for a few days and maybe you can finally get rid of all this built up hate inside you sir.

Aug. 17 2010 10:27 AM
Patricia from Forest Hills

Peter's a bitter, rude, jerk. Sorry for his loss but that doens't give him the right to be such a jerk. And he obviously doesn't know his Christian history. I'm a Christian, but am quite aware of the atrocities people have done in the name of my religion.

He doesn't believe anyone, there's no way to work with him. No way of coming to an agreement with him.

Aug. 17 2010 10:26 AM
The Truth from Becky

Cultural Center.
Lower Manhattan.

Please use the correct terms.

Aug. 17 2010 10:25 AM

I meant a platform!

Aug. 17 2010 10:25 AM
Mom in NJ

I'm sorry, but why is Colleen being challenged for her positions?

Mr. Gadiel has an agenda, probably well before 9/ll. What is his religious belielf? Should he be personally held accountable for the actions of all believers of the same faith? What other muslims did or didn't do in other countries should have no bearing on this religious center.

Aug. 17 2010 10:25 AM
Mike from NYU

WHERE DOES THIS GUY GET THIS STUFF?

Have him cite which moderate mosques are "infiltrated."

Aug. 17 2010 10:25 AM
Hal

Brian, this guy is a "true believer". The truth is irrelevant to him.

Aug. 17 2010 10:25 AM

Brian, why are you giving this guy at platform for this "hate" talk?

Aug. 17 2010 10:24 AM
Matthew from Brooklyn

Wow, what an distinction: you have one voice of reason, Ms. Kelly, and one voice of anger and resentment, Mr. Gadiel. Unfortunately, it's the rage that is united, that votes for hate-mongers, fundamentalists, and cynical nihilists; the rage that is dismantling the Constitution and the pluralism that is so important to our multicultural nation.

Aug. 17 2010 10:24 AM
Leah from Brooklyn

Please stop calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque." It is in lower Manhattan, as close to Ground Zero as a strip club, a McDonalds, and a Vitamin Shoppe. Peter Gadiel has clearly perfected the rhetorical art of inflaming naive (to use his word) listeners - did he really just mention the atom bomb? Lashing out against other families who also lost children for dealing with their grief in their own ways - e.g., petitioning a government not to commit retributive violence in their son's name? Totally out of line. Would Mr. Gadiel have us suspend due process and freedom of religion to somehow assuage his grief?

Aug. 17 2010 10:24 AM
Keith from East Harlem

Mr Gadiel is typical of the right - pompous and rude and attacking on a personal level. This whole discussion is a sad reflection of our country - the left is to meek.

Aug. 17 2010 10:23 AM
Pipo

No mosque at ground zero. OK but then let's also make sure there are no Irish pubs in lower Manhattan. Did we forget about that terrorism too?

This guy is an idiot.

Aug. 17 2010 10:23 AM
Hal

Let's stop putting Catholic institutions near elementary schools.

Aug. 17 2010 10:23 AM
Mike In Brooklyn from Brooklyn

And what is untrue about that statement?

Aug. 17 2010 10:23 AM
RLewis from the bowery

How about asking your guests what the boundaries of their sacred ground are? Is it just the WTC footprint, or do they get to claim territory up to Canal St.???

Aug. 17 2010 10:21 AM
MK from rockaway

This whole topic has been done to death and I hope this is the last we hear of it on WNYC: nothing has changed here and nothing will. Everyone already knows these Islamaphobes are the exact same group of WASPS who promote hatred against gays, hatred against Hispanics and other racial minorities, hatred against the poor, and hatred against anyone who is not them. They are hateful people, period. Please stop giving them airtime, it's boring and ridiculous. This is the reason I do not listen to right wing AM talk radio.

Aug. 17 2010 10:21 AM
Michelle from Nyc

Why does Brian keep referring to the site as a mosque? I thought journalists were supposed to represent the facts. It's a cultural center.

Aug. 17 2010 10:21 AM
Jim

I'm with Susan. I don't see why the opinions of the 9/11 families should be given any additional weight here. It's NOT a mosque, it's NOT at Ground Zero, and both the Constitution and the zoning laws of the City Of New York clearly establish the right of the center to be built at its proposed location.

Aug. 17 2010 10:21 AM
Edward from NJ

Many bigots have experiences that they can point to as the source and justification of their bigotry. That doesn't excuse the bigotry. This isn't any different.

Aug. 17 2010 10:20 AM
Norman from NYC

Question for Peter Gadiel:

Do you agree that the government has no legal right to stop or hinder the Park51 center from being built, under the First Amendment?

Aug. 17 2010 10:18 AM
b

this guy is a crank

mass protests by muslims after 911?
a few Palestinians at most

Fear fear Fear!

enough with this nonsense

Aug. 17 2010 10:18 AM

Peter Gadiel, Founder of the 9/11 Families for a Secure America Foundation, is rude as well.

Aug. 17 2010 10:17 AM
michael from brooklyn

i'm sorry your son died that day, but that doesn't give you cause to become and evil hate monger throwing around crazy lies. geeeeez.

Aug. 17 2010 10:17 AM
Daniel from Brooklyn

Do the two guests feel that their personal connection to the 9/11 attacks gives them a distinctive right to determine what happens near ground zero?

Aug. 17 2010 10:17 AM
Jennifer Hickey from Flushing

Is he kidding? So does Christianity. Does he forget the Crusades and colonialism? What about the psycho Christians that justify the murder of doctors that perform abortions. He is blaming an entire population for the actions of a few.

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM
Matthew from Brooklyn

Two blocks away and unseen from the site of the WTC. What are the boundaries of "ground zero"?

Hard questions perhaps, but the boundaries of bigots, nativists, ethnic cleansers, and exploiters like Palin and Gringrich are much clearer.

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM
Empka from Brooklyn

to your guest, Christians historically also built churches on top of mosques

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM
michael from brooklyn

i'm sorry your son died that day, but that doesn't give you cause to become and evil hate monger throwing around crazy lies. geeeeez.

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM

Peter Gadiel, Founder of the 9/11 Families for a Secure America Foundation, is way of line. He seems incredibly bitter.

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM
RLewis from bowery

How do your guests feel about the military base that the US built in the Mecca area that pissed off BinLaden and start all of this???

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM
Jesse

what dude? christianity has no history of conquest? this whole thing makes me so sad.

Aug. 17 2010 10:16 AM
Mike from NYU

It is irrelevant what the "9/11 families" think on this matter. Its not a mosque. And its not at ground zero. Its not sacred ground. There are no bodies there. No one died there. Its just a normal, run-down old building on Park Place that will be fixed up into a nice cultural center that will have all sorts of events for the religious, intellectual, and cultural community in all of New York.

And this guest is a moron. Every religion conquers others in their past.

Aug. 17 2010 10:15 AM
Jennifer

I am sorry, but why do the 9/11 families seem to carry so much weight in society? People lose loved ones to various tragedies all the time and while some of them go on to lobby for laws, none of them have gained the insane power these folks seem to have over any policy even tangetially related to them. Why do they have any say over foreign policy, security policy, or what happens to downtown NYC? Its sad that they lost loved ones, but that doesn't give them extra rights or power over everyone else.

Aug. 17 2010 10:15 AM
Concerned Citizen

I think that the cultural center should be built because this about freedom of religion.

Perhaps I have missed something, but I haven't heard from 9/11 families that are Muslim that lost loved ones. The media has not given them a voice in this discussion.

Aug. 17 2010 10:14 AM

4000 died, how do we honor them? REBUILD; freedom tower? chnia says no. do we honor them?

Aug. 17 2010 10:11 AM

I am tired of hearing about the 9/11 families and what they want. Even so, many of them support freedom of religion and I think that having a Islamic Cultural Center will be a good thing.

Aug. 17 2010 10:10 AM
JP from NJ

Please remind everyone that it’s completely irrelevant what these people or anyone thinks because the 1st amendment is very clear on freedom of religion and trumps all. If this was a Christian church or a Jewish temple, 99% of these people would have no problem with this. Sorry, you can’t pick and choose who the 1st amendment applies to. Remember that the pilgrims who founded this country where trying to escape religious persecution….

Aug. 17 2010 10:08 AM
R Moore from Tribeca, New York NY

Please can we conduct this discussion on the basis of facts. This is not a mosque. It is a cultural center with a prayer room. A hospital, old people's home, airport or other facility with a small chapel or prayer area does not automatically become a church. If the 92St Y had a room that could be used for religious observances, it would not become a synangogue. So let us call it what it is. A cultural center.

Aug. 17 2010 10:07 AM

I wish brian would stop saying ground zero mosque. it's in lower manhattan.

Aug. 17 2010 10:06 AM
John P. MacKqenzie from Long Island City

Obama was correct in both statements, about rights and wisdom. His unfortunate mistake was not to put them together, to the same audience, for they belong together. Very likely we should know more about the Mosque sponsors and their financing. But the victim community, however defined --- near relatives, neighbors, other New Yorkers --- and however polled, have no license to veto the project. Similarly, the community, large or small and however defined, of victims of a murder must not dictate the sentence.

Aug. 17 2010 09:58 AM
S. Kelly from Astoria

I suddenly wondered if the proposed Islamic Cultural Center will include both Sunni and Shiite (sp?) Muslims? It just occurred to me - can you guest help? Thank you.

Aug. 17 2010 09:42 AM

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