Streams

Kill Khalid

Tuesday, March 31, 2009

In 1997 a team of Israeli secret agents tried and failed to kill Hamas leader Khalid Mishal. Paul McGeough chronicles the plot and argues the assassination attempt changed Palestinian politics for the next decade in his book Kill Khalid.

You can hear Paul McGeough read from Kill Khalid here

Event: Paul McGeough will be reading and speaking about his book
Tuesday, March 31, 7:00 pm
Alwan for the Arts
16 Beaver Street, 4th Floor
More information here.

Guests:

Paul McGeough
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Comments [28]

jgarbuz from Queens

To Dat

The over 1 million Israeli Arabs are full citizens, and every male and female Arab citizen of Israel has had the vote since 1948. I think there is confusion between the Arab citizens of Israel, and the ARabs living in the disputed territories regained as a result of the 1967 war. They can vote for Fatah, Hamas and other parties of their own, but they are not citizens of Israel. Except for those in East Jerusalem who chose to accept Israeli permanent residency.
Just as in Puerto Rico, where Puerto Ricans can vote for their own governor but cannot for US presidents or congressmen. Unless they immigrate to, and reside on the mainland. Puerto Rico has been occupied since 1900, and only gained the right to elect their governors after 54 years of occupation in 1954.

Apr. 01 2009 12:24 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

TO DAT of Natan Straus Projects

The Council of the League of Nations in 1920 and 1922 did not recognize any Arab nation called "Palestinians." It did recognize that some 700,000 non-Jews were inhabitants of the "Jewish National Home" and did provide that their civil and religious rights be protected. However, the League gave the Jewish nation-in-exile the right to return, resettle "wastelands" "state lands" and any private property lands that could be purchased from the non-Jewish population. Between 1920 and 1947, not one inch of private ARab-owned property was illegally expropriated. It was only due to the ARab aggression against the newly authorized Jewish state that caused TWO refugee problems to result: that of 711,000 Arabs from the Jewish part who moved a few miles to the Jordanian controlled part; and the 900,000 Jews from the Arab countries forced out after 1948, 600,000 of whom settled in Sderot, Beersheba, Ashkelon and other parts of Israel.

Apr. 01 2009 12:18 PM
TS from New York, NY

Seymour Hersh excerpt, in the New Yorker (4/9/09)

"[K]haled Meshal, the leader of Hamas, works in an office in a well-protected, tranquil residential area of Damascus. In recent years, he has met privately with Jewish leaders and Americans. Meshal is seen by Israel as a sponsor of suicide bombers and other terrorist activity. In 1997, he survived a botched assassination-by-poisoning attempt by Israeli intelligence which Netanyahu, then the Prime Minister, had ordered. Under pressure from Jordan and the U.S., the Israelis handed over the poison’s antidote, saving Meshal’s life."

www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/04/06/090406fa_fact_hersh

Mar. 31 2009 05:51 PM
DAT from Nathan Straus Projects

The problem has been the brutal occupation
of the Palestinian people, by the USA backed
Israeli Military.

From the beginning, this was handled wrong.
The fact that the Jewish people suffered
so horribly at the hands of the despicable
Nazis, did not entitled them or anybody else
to the land of the Palestinian people.

The Palestinian people were not the Nazis,
they had nothing to do with that, but they
have paid the price in blood over and over
again.

Why aren't Palestinian people, full fledged
citizens of Israel, with all the rights
and duties that implies in any country?

Jewish people would scream bloody murder
and they would be absolutely right,
if they were treated in the USA, the way
they treat Palestinians in Israel.

Mar. 31 2009 03:19 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Jon P. #23,
No, I am not saying the so-called "Palestinians" are in the same category as natives of North America for many reasons. For one thing, the "Indians" are truly indigenous, whereas the "Palestinian" Arabs are NOT. Even the Canaanites only arrived around 2400 BC. The "Indians" preceded the Canaanites by MANY millennium. Indians are far worse off, because they were truly subjects of genocide, which reduced their numbers from 5 or 15 million to less than 2.5 million today. By contrast, the number of "Palestinians" grew from less than a half million in the 1880s, when the first Zionist Jews began to resettle, to something like over 10 million today, more than half of whom still live west of the Jordan river. So the Jewish Return has immensely stimulated the growth of the Arab population. And actually, many American "INdians" are worse off than many Palestinians in the West Bank. But Jews and many Palestinians do share DNA indicating that Jews have genetic roots in the region.

Mar. 31 2009 01:51 PM
Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ

jgarbuz from Queens,

Considering American Indians are the only decreasing minority population in America, are the most impoverished minority group in America, have the highest suicide rate and drug/alcohol rate in America and forced to live on tiny scraps of unusable land in the richest country in the world that has broke just about every treaty ever signed with the American Indians, maybe they should start shooting off missiles. Why not? Their race will soon disappear. They have nothing to loose. American Indians do make a good analogy for your argument. American Indians are America’s genocide. I don’t think you’re saying Palestinians are Israel’s genocide are you? Of course not. American Indians are in a completely different boat.

Mar. 31 2009 01:37 PM
abc

Stu, people don't care what the area was called, or what political structure was there, or what document a colonial power produced (do Africans, Asians, and Latinos not have a right to enfranchisement simply because they may not have had it before?).

People just care about who lived there.

Mar. 31 2009 01:31 PM
Stu Einbinder from New York

ABC

The Palestinians are making a claim based on nationality. There has never been a nation called Palestine. At best, pre-1948 the Jews were historically referred to as "Palestinians" while the Arabs were referred to as "Arabs." No pre-PLO Arab referred to himself as a "Palestinian." That was Arafat's greatest victory. He got the world and the Arabs themselves to beleive in this fiction of an Arab "Palestinian" who had a historical national rights in the historical Jewish homeland which already had seen 80% given away as an Arab state - Jordan, in violation of its mandate.

Mar. 31 2009 01:08 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

I wonder if the native "American Indians" whose lands have been occupied for over two centuries now, should have the right to fire rockets from fortified reservations onto American suburbs? Or teach their young braves to become suicide bombers? I wonder how many rockets and suicide bombs the US government would put up with before it sent in the USAF and marines?

Mar. 31 2009 01:04 PM
abc

Elizabeth Lipman,

Agreed, he seemed to conflate what he wished Hamas would do with the path Hamas has actually taken.

I wonder at his motivation, and found this added confusion and noise to the cultural discussion of this issue.

Mar. 31 2009 01:02 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

I don't think either war was a "mistake." Was Hiroshima and Nagasaki "mistakes?" In 2006, Israeli soldiers were kidnapped, years after the Israelis had withdrawn from Lebanon (except Shebaa farms, which used by Hezbollah as the excuse), and Israel punished them. Lebanon never signed a peace treaty with Israel as have Egypt and Jordan. Anyhow, two years later, Hamas decides to do the very same thing Hezbollah had done, and killed and kidnappped IDF soldiers, three years after Israel had evacuated from Gaza. And so they got the same result, and were punished the same way as Lebanon was. I don't understand what was wrong with it. Aggressive enemies, and those who harbor them, have to be punished. "Innocents" beware!

Mar. 31 2009 01:00 PM
Elizabeth Lipman from Brooklyn

Like one of the previous commenters, I have never heard of Hamas accepting a two-state soluton. Even though Leonard did quote from that email, McGeough never defended his claim, which he made more than once. I would like to know if anyone has ever heard that Hamas, or any of its members, did say they would accept a two-state solution, even temporarily. Perhaps the guest simply interpreted their acceptance of an extended cease fire as the equivalent, which it certainly would not be. And while McGeough deplored Hamas' constitution, I have never heard anyone suggest that they might be willing to eliminate the hateful language and ideas it contains.

Mar. 31 2009 12:52 PM
abc

Stu,

Do you even give any weight to your words?
There were no America or American Indians either prior Columbus.

Mar. 31 2009 12:51 PM
adam from Brooklyn

You made a mistake regarding the Israeli response to the War in Lebanon in 2006. 2 1/2 years after the war, Israelies realize it was a mistake. But during the war, up to 80 percent of the pubic vigorously supported the war. Children were drawing pictures on the bombs before they were dropped on Lebanon.

Mar. 31 2009 12:50 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

What's with all these Irish and Scots Irish and their fascination with the Jewish-Arab struggle over the Land of Israel, or "Palestine" as the non-Jews call it? Don't they have enough on their plate in Ireland, and have to meddle in the Israel/Palestine conflict? And usually with anti-Jewish slant, of course. What if the Irish had been forced out of Ireland, with only a small number left, and the country had been occupied by Arabs? And what if the Irish had been pushed and persecuted from country to country, would they not have not tried to regain their homeland? What's with their pro-Palestinian slant? THe Arabs have 21 Arab countries;the Jews barely have one. Why can't the "Palestinians" be absorbed into the other Arab countries. They have the same language, religion and culture. Why do they refuse to absorb and integrate the Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians?"

Mar. 31 2009 12:47 PM
Amy from Manhattan

Interesting that Abbas made that "just wait till we win the elections" statement. There were actually more votes cast in Gaza for Fatah than Hamas candidates, but Fatah split its own vote by running more than 1 candidate for the same post in many races, & even running some candidates on the Hamas line, so Hamas ended up winning the majority. If Fatah hadn't done that, they might well have won in both Gaza & the West Bank, & things might be very different.

Too bad that this didn't come up until almost the end of the interview--I'd have like to hear Mr. McGeough's comment on this.

Mar. 31 2009 12:46 PM
Stu Einbinder from New York

The British Mandate was given by the League of Nations with the express purpose of establishing a Jewish state in all of the territory of the mandate (Currently Israel & Jordan).

As for a historical "Palestinian" state, that is a fiction. As anyone to name the last King, Emir, Dictator, or Leader of a soverign country called Palestine. They can't because there has never been a sovereign state called Palestine.

Mar. 31 2009 12:45 PM
hjs from 11211

Domenick
but we all know who the palestinians are today, NOW.

Mar. 31 2009 12:45 PM
Elaine from Baltimore MD

Re: your comment about Gaza still controlled by Israel after their departure:
I do believe that if Hamas showed good will after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, for example, instead of burning down the greenhouses that were left for them (which incidentally provided work for approx. 10,000 Gazans), Hamas replaced them with rockets. I think Israel would have been more than happy to ease the restraint around the borders had good will been shown on the part of the Gazans.

Why were the greenhouses burned & replaced with rockets?

Mar. 31 2009 12:42 PM
Domenick from Manhattan

The only historical entity of Palestine other than the Roman political name-change of Israel was the British Mandate. The Brits took two-thirds to create Jordan for the Arabs, who originate in the Arabian Peninsula, the royal family was from Mecca. "Palestinian" was only used by JEWS before '48 (The Jerusalem Post was the The Palestinian Post) and Arabs after '67, it is a contrivance to serve a political agenda. "Half of Hussein's population are Palestinian refugees" was a ridiculous statement in historical context.

Mar. 31 2009 12:41 PM
abc

He just hit the nail on the head,
the settlement has to be imposed.

But by who?

Mar. 31 2009 12:40 PM
ed

Is there any faction in Hamas arguing for a peaceful approach?

Mar. 31 2009 12:35 PM
Stu Einbinder from New York

1) Hamas has NEVER recognized a 2 state solution!!! Where is your guests' proof of this statement!!! As a journalist you have a responsibiluty to press your guest for proof of this statement! All HAMAS have offered is a long term cease-fire, which will give them time to build a bigger terror state.

2) From 1967 until the intifada the Arabs did not have any security issues with the Israelis and they revolted against the Israeli, courtesy of Mr. Arafat.

3) After 30 years of "peace" with Egypt, the "peace" is very cold. Professional Egyptians are removed from their professions if they speak positively about Israel. AND THESE ARE THE EDUCATED PEOPLE!! Egypt wouldn't even attend a celebration in honor of the 30 year anniversary of the peace accords. What do you think the children of Hamas will do in 20 years?

4) Any comparison to Northern Ireland is bogus. No one is trying to destroy Britain! That can not be said of the Arab terror groups!

Mar. 31 2009 12:27 PM
Susan from Kingston, New York

Until the Israeli give up its occupation of Palestine, there will be no peace. I don't think that we will see that in my life time. Tragic.

Mar. 31 2009 12:23 PM
John-Paul from Elizabeth, NJ

Poison in the ear? How Shakespearean.

Mar. 31 2009 12:22 PM
abc

Northern Ireland is not surrounded by a league of nations that just voted its support for a leader (Bashir of Sudan) with an arrest warrant for genocide, and with some members carrying out terrorist acts in each others lands.

Mar. 31 2009 12:21 PM
Herb E from NJ


Your noble attempts at balancing the news results in making excuses for Islamic murderers, suicide bombers & the like. please be carefull because they act upon your acceptance. Beheading stopped because you did not draw equivalents; you did not make excuses.

Mar. 31 2009 12:14 PM
Gabrielle from NYC

can your author discuss assassination attempts made by israeli forces (IDF, Mossad) during times when ceasefires are in place and how this goes unreported in mainstream media.

Mar. 31 2009 09:33 AM

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