Streams

Monday Morning Politics: Snowden, Surveillance, and Border Security

Monday, June 24, 2013

NSA leaker Edward Snowden has left Hong Kong and is reportedly headed for asylum in Ecuador (via Cuba). Meanwhile, the conversation over the impact of the surveillance tactics employed by the US government continues, including a heated exchange over the role of journalists on Meet the Press yesterday (see video below). Plus: an immigration bill is expected to be voted on in the Senate this week, but the arguing over border security provisions may hold up its passage or stall it in the House. Molly Ball, political reporter for The Atlantic, discusses the latest news out of Washington.

Guests:

Molly Ball

Comments [91]

No more border patrol agents! Enough with the spending, this is NOT first priority for the government. I don't agree with people coming here illegally but increasing spending... no way José.

Jun. 24 2013 09:39 PM

@ "Nat from NYC, 10:28 a.m.:

"Obamacare is simply incapable of doing what it is supposed to do -- provide nearly universal care at an affordable and sustainable cost."- Marcia Angell, M.D.,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marcia-angell-md/roberts-romney-health-care_b_1637397.html

"Nick from UWS", wrote:

"I know that Greenwald is a journalist because he was instrumental in disseminating an intensely uncomfortable truth that needs looking at."

If only Glenn Greenwald would join such brave homosexual dissidents as Bill Weintraub ( man2manalliance.org ) Rob McGee ( funfrotfacts.blogspot.com , throbert.blogspot.com ) in "disseminating" /another/ "intensely uncomfortable truth that needs looking at": The dangerous, gruesome act of buggery and the culture that surrounds it.

@ "RUCB_Alum":

All contraceptives have considerable failure-rates. Thus, choosing to engage in any form of sexual contact that carries a risk of pregnancy, without being prepared to own-up to such should it occur, is irresponsible and selfish. Aborting a baby because it would be an inconvenience is nothing short of murderous.

Jun. 24 2013 02:56 PM

@ "john from office", 10:44 a.m.

"Noach, point taken."

Thank you, John. I really appreciate and respect you for that.

Jun. 24 2013 02:50 PM

"RUCB_Alum" wrote (10:36 a.m.):
"I would prefer that the decision to terminate be rare but when it is made, I need it to be done safely with as little trauma as possible to her body and her spirit."

Wait...

If you don't believe abortion to be taking of an innocent life, then why, exactly, would you prefer that abortion be "rare"?

And, if there's nothing at all /wrong/, at least morally or ethically, with the procedure, why would there even be any "trauma" to a woman's "spirit" whatsoever?

Jun. 24 2013 01:17 PM
Joe B from Brooklyn

Hilts: "Anyone who chooses to run and hide rather than face the consequences of his or her actions is a coward."

Does this include the men who fled to Canada rather than become baby killers in Vietnam?

Jun. 24 2013 12:16 PM
weird comments

more ward than salon

Jun. 24 2013 11:56 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Edward Snowden is on the run.

Send Navy Seal Team 6.

Jun. 24 2013 11:43 AM
Jim

@angry office guy

His dad bribed his way OUT of his country. The bribe was to be allowed to leave, not to be allowed to enter.

Jun. 24 2013 11:27 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

jgarbuz,

Parthenogenesis /ˌpɑrθənoʊˈdʒɛnəsɨs/ is a form of asexual reproduction in which growth and development of embryos occur without fertilization. In animals, parthenogenesis means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg cell and is a component process of apomixis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

Jun. 24 2013 11:11 AM
mgduke from hell's kitchen

How can anyone question Glenn Greenwald’s bona fides as a journalist--including David Gregory and Brian’s guest here and even Brian to a disappointing extent--and be blind to the reality that Greenwald is pushing forward the greatest tradition of American journalism continuing the work of Zenger, Garrison, Douglass, and Polk?

Imagine the stand up to Gregory and his ilk that would have come from Garrison or Douglass. That's America.

Jun. 24 2013 11:09 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To jg8912

If they can have an "immaculate conception," that is make a baby without male sperm, be my guest. Meanwhile, men are unfortunately dependent on females to have children, and so no, I do not believe women can "do whatever they want" with their bodies. Yes, as long as they don't take anything from a man to do so. In any case, they are human beings. They have the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

Jun. 24 2013 11:06 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ jgarbuz from Queens

Yes, exactly, if they are "slave catchers" they are pretty bad at it. 99% of the people caught crossing the border illegally are back in Mexico within a week, ready to try again. I agree that the prison industrial complex is an important issue but not with regard to illegal immigration.

Jun. 24 2013 11:05 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

@ jf from REALITY

Oh, wow, someone from "REALITY" screaming about "dystopia". Get over yourself dude, when your two little pals drop and you get out into "reality" you will find many more things that are "dystopic".

Like when the government selectively enforces the law to promote politically divisive economic and political conditions i.e. you can always pay 1/2 the people to kill the other half. Borders are legal boundaries between sovereign states which are supposed to exist to protect citizens on both sides of the border.

These "FREE PEOPLE" are free to live at your house, free to take your job, and free to undermine your political process. Way to go, can I have your address next time I need something for free?

Jun. 24 2013 11:03 AM
jg8912 from unCT

I mean, who the hell wants to give foreigners rights anyway, or women for that matter. My very very close friend Ed and I asked a foreign woman to have a baby for us which we would pay a good market rate for. She said no. I mean, who said it's her body anyway. These women just don't understand that fertility is a male decision. Our magical seed gives life, they are just the vessels. My priest who has supported me from behind for years, told me so. Just look at the ancient Greeks - they knew that men make the babies and men get the votes. It's just traditional. Those old Greeks also had very forward lifestyle choices that me and Ed try to live by, but no one understands. Women just don't get it, especially the immigrant ones, or am I just craaaaazy? %^*^$#*&^%$#^&& aaahhhhhhh!!!

Jun. 24 2013 11:00 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Jf, you are FAR from reality! Calling border guards "slave catchers." That is pathetic.

Jun. 24 2013 10:55 AM
jf from REALITY

THE PURPOSE OF BORDER CONTROL IS TO CATCH SLAVES FOR PRIVATE PRISON CORPORATIONS TO USE TO EXTORT TAX DOLLARS! FREE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE ANYWHERE THEY WANT WHENEVER THEY WANT. ANYTHING ELSE IS DYSTOPIA.

Jun. 24 2013 10:44 AM
Nat from NYC

The GOP would rather spend time voting for anti-women laws than solving real problems. It's easier to put on these morality plays than tackle the actual difficult problems we have. Let's see them try to save the planet from frying to a crisp, or dealing with the fact that one in 7 Americans doesn't have enough FOOD.

Jun. 24 2013 10:44 AM
john from office

Noach, point taken.

As for Mr. Cruz. Mr. Rafael Edwardo Cruz, is birth name, should be ashamed for his stance on immigration. His dad bribed his way into the USA, from his own lips.

Jun. 24 2013 10:44 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

RUCB Alum,

You think that KGB Putins Russia doesn't snoop on communications IN Russia?

That's the problem with the Left. They have a BIG blindspot for certain totalitarian regimes, dictatorships, brotherhoods.

Jun. 24 2013 10:43 AM
James from Brooklyn

This bill is doomed to fail. Just look at the comments coming in here, a very Democratic audience. It is not popular as we are led to believe. I can tell you from the ground level it has hurt my community. This further marginalizes the African American.

Jun. 24 2013 10:43 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

TO RUCB_ALUM

Sure, if she can have it removed without killing it, that's fine. It is removed when it is born. But killing it is another matter. It's a human life. It is not a foreign parasite that is killing the mother, only causing her discomfort. However, if it is killing the mother, then it should be killed before it kills her. But otherwise, let it live and give it to someone who is willing to let it live.

Jun. 24 2013 10:43 AM
steve from queens

As you attempt to justify immigration, and understand, I know a lot of immigrants and many of them are wonderful people, there are a lot of americans who suffer because of immigration. those of us who work with our hands feel downward pressure on our income as a result of competition from people who in most cases are willing to do a job for less and who in many cases cannot do that job as well because they lack the skill. I am a wood worker. I also do (or did) renovations. I cannot make a living as some men did a generation ago doing drywall work because I lose jobs to immigrants. So I work with wood. Many of the immigrants cannot do that work, but some stick their necks out and attempt to and they underbid me and others like me and get the jobs and then do shitty work; we always have to fight this and justify our prices and it is one thing when it is an american low balling and taking food off my table; it is another when it is someone who is not from here. it is about time americans took up for americans and we worry about getting all americans jobs on which they can live and we stopped worrying about equal opportunity for people in and from other countries. Immigration is something that robs food from my son's dinner plate.

Jun. 24 2013 10:43 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Well, thankfully the guest did not challenge the caller's contention that current immigrants exert negative economic pressure on the middle and working class. Because it is true. And I don't know why Brian is perpetuating falsehood about immigrant "job creation". They do not create more jobs than they take. Course, they're not taking Brian's job...BRIAN, PLEASE CITE A FEW OF THE STUDIES THAT YOU CLAIM SAY THAT IMMIGRANTS DO NOT EXERT NEGATIVE NET ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON THE MIDDLE AND WORKING CLASS, for our edification. WE CAN READ THEM, THEN HAVE A SEGMENT FLESHING THEM OUT. If this is about humanitarian concerns, fine. But don't lie about the economics.

Jun. 24 2013 10:42 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Well, thankfully the guest did not challenge the caller's contention that current immigrants exert negative economic pressure on the middle and working class. Because it is true. And I don't know why Brian is perpetuating falsehood about immigrant "job creation". They do not create more jobs than they take. Course, they're not taking Brian's job...BRIAN, PLEASE CITE A FEW OF THE STUDIES THAT YOU CLAIM SAY THAT IMMIGRANTS DO NOT EXERT NEGATIVE NET ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON THE MIDDLE AND WORKING CLASS, for our edification. WE CAN READ THEM, THEN HAVE A SEGMENT FLESHING THEM OUT. If this is about humanitarian concerns, fine. But don't lie about the economics.

Jun. 24 2013 10:42 AM
jawbone

jg8912 from CT @ 10:31am -- I agree with you, but Snowden is trying to keep things which should be private out of government data bases, sitting there waiting for some reason for them to be dug out in order to "get" someone for who knows what. Might be political action? Criticism of Powers That Be? Even reporting on things which the PTB's don't want revealed to the public?

Jun. 24 2013 10:42 AM
jawbone

john from office @ 8:50am -- I do hope your attitude does not prevail in our government.

I know that this nation has increasingly become inured to the effects of our violence against purported terrorists, bad guys, etc., and talk about acceptable numbers of collateral damage. War seems to coarsen both those fighting wars and many of those supporting such wars.

I do not think innocent people should be taken out to get one leaker of government secrets.

Please think again about your response and suggestions.

Jun. 24 2013 10:41 AM

Border crossings are on the decrease because no one is coming in any more!!

Mexicans are deciding to stay home of go home because the economy is so pitiful, here in the States!!

There is a reverse immigration!

Jun. 24 2013 10:40 AM
Nat from NYC

The truth is the Republican Party hates Latinos, and is holding its nose solely to go after Latino votes. If the immigration bill goes through, it would be a shame if Latinos forgot the disdain ("self-deportation", Arizona's racist law, etc) with which they're truly viewed by the GOP.

Jun. 24 2013 10:40 AM
Amy from Manhattan

I thought the current version of the bill had a path to legal residency rather than to citizenship?

Jun. 24 2013 10:40 AM
Mr. Bad from NYC

An influx of unskilled labor in the form of Mexican/South American immigrants will not boost growth. We no longer have a "growth" economy, no longer have factories to staff or high body count wars to wage - they will simply edge out American low skilled workers, mostly blacks and poor whites owing to the fact they will work for less, complain less and have little or no feeling for their personal "rights" as they come entirely from countries which have not liberal tradition per se. Corporate America is loving every second of this "human rights" debate, this is why the Democrats are no better than Republicans, twos sides of the same corporate coin.

Jun. 24 2013 10:38 AM
jg8912 from CT

Brian,

If what you say is true, wouldn't it be SELFISH for the United States to have the immigrants come here - to the wealthiest country in the world? If these immigrants are so beneficial to economies, we should be sending them to the POOREST countries in the world to HELP THEIR ECONOMIES!!!

Jun. 24 2013 10:37 AM
pliny from soho

The new immigrants are social conservatives
they are Democrats only because they see it is in their interest they will move the country to the right eventually

Jun. 24 2013 10:37 AM
Amy from Manhattan

"That's just a fact," says the previous caller. Oh, I see--it's true because he says so.

Jun. 24 2013 10:37 AM

I'd bet anything that caller Alex is Cuban

Jun. 24 2013 10:36 AM

@jgarbuz from Queens

So what? If that sperm wasn't "invited in" - rape or incest - why should there be a restriction on a woman's right to have it removed?

And even when it is consensual sex, the choice to let the baby develop to full term is still the mother's choice. I would prefer that the decision to terminate be rare but when it is made, I need it to be done safely with as little trauma as possible to her body and her spirit.

Jun. 24 2013 10:36 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

If Snowden was "spying for the American people" then he shouldn't hide in China, Russia or Ecuador, and explain in court how his spying for the American people has helped them in any way. Let his defense be that he was a spy for the American people, and see what the court has to say about that.

Jun. 24 2013 10:36 AM

@ "john from office", 9:40 a.m.:

I am only responsible for what _I_ post. Please do not confuse me with or hold me accountable for anything that "some on this board" may post or hold.

Let's be clear:

1.) I never used the phrase "sick in the head" or otherwise made comments about your mental state.

2.) Your insinuation concerning partiality to the State of Israel on my part is completely unfounded. A review of my posting history would clearly show that in addition to repeatedly disassociating myself from Zionism in any form and declaring that it actually /violates/ Judaism, I have also posted much criticism and even condemnation of the Zionist State.

( In the thread from April that I quoted you from just before, you attributed a statement to me that I never made.)

Wishing people dead, in the manner in which you did several times in this thread ("one car accident", etc.), is no subsititue for intelligent, reasoned argument. In fact, such antics are characteristic of, of all things, the very Islamofascism that you (rightfully) deplore.

And it's rather rich, considering your castigations of our esteemed poster Martin Chuzzlewit. (While Chuzzlewit's continued lowbrow, childish name-calling of the President speaks for itself, I have never seen him wish /death/ upon anyone in the manner that you have here.)

Jun. 24 2013 10:35 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Bob from Brooklyn,

While you're handing out "F"'s, please F the Palestinians (Assassination of RFK), Al Qada, Hamas, Hezbullah, Muslim Brotherhood, Syria, Egypt, Islamic Regime of Iran.

OK?

Jun. 24 2013 10:35 AM
jg8912 from CT

Immigration Reform. Here's the message: "Break the rules, get rewarded."

Jun. 24 2013 10:34 AM
Nick from UWS

I know that Greenwald is a journalist because he was instrumental in disseminating an intensely uncomfortable truth that needs looking at. Gregory says nothing on his show, exposes nothing, challenges nothing, digs up nothing, carries the torch for no human values.

Jun. 24 2013 10:33 AM
Jerome from Bronx

i love how somehow supply and demand does not work for labor in the eyes of "journalists" like brian... lets see, if we have millions more people seeking jobs, what happens when you go to the local construction site looking fora job, or that office position and there are thousands more seeking that position... guess what, you may not get that job and if you do it will be at a far lower wage since so many people showed up looking. This is sickening, both Democrats and Republicans outside of the beltway do not want this. It makes no economic sense. This is not an ethnic thing, it is cold economic reality.

I'll tell you this from experience, my father worked as a painter and raised our family. Try doing that today. Not possible.

Jun. 24 2013 10:32 AM
jawbone

If our government has determined that Snowden is guilty of espionage, it implies that he is spying FOR someone.

If he is a spy, it appears to me that Snowden decided to "spy" FOR the American people to ensure that they know what is being TO THEM in secret. How their government is taking unto itself powers not granted to it in law or the Constitution.

I'm for Snowden doing what he did and thank him heartily.

We would not be discussing what our government is doing in secret to SPY ON US without Snowden's leaks. Many have tried to get this conversation going, but nothing has quite gotten MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) attention as these leaks have done.

However, I do understand Obama's desire to keep secrets since some of his best decisions to assist his Corporatist sponsors have been worked out in secret.

I do not understand how this former Constitutional scholar/adjunct professor can so easily work to abrogate the clear meaning of parts of our Constitution.

I go with Upton Sinclair on this:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary [and/or power] depends upon his not understanding it." -

Jun. 24 2013 10:32 AM
jg8912 from CT

Why is it OK for reporters to disclose classified information? Would the guy who thinks Snowden is a hero, think the same if Snowden made his SS# and credit card information public? Some information is meant to be kept secret.

Jun. 24 2013 10:31 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

RUCB_Alum

It's attached to her body, and can only be there because MALE sperm activated the life force that turned it into a separate human being. It did not come about only from her own internal forces. It required a MAN's SPERM, produced in a male body, for it to come into existence.

Jun. 24 2013 10:29 AM
Nat from NYC

Heartening that Jeff Sessions supports people having health care and retirement security. So I guess he'll now be a strong supporter of Obamacare and Social Security.

Jun. 24 2013 10:28 AM
jane goldberg from Manhattan

I was surprised so few of the SUnday talk shows had any "adversaries" such as Greenwald to talk about the Snowden case, so it was good to hear this morning he was on Meet the Press. I don't find his ego on the line, although how can it not be when he is being attacked so often. I once saw him at a media conference stream from Boston a couple years ago, give a Washington D.C. journalist on the same panel trash Wikileaks. Greenwald was taking notes. Then with all his talking points, he disputed each of the D.C' speaker's points clearly. The D.C. journalist agreed, (reluctantly) but left the podium with self respect. I don't think Greenwald is an attacker as much as a defender of constitutional rights, which is , after all, his profession. Have been following him for three years. This is the first time he's been so in the spotlight. I think he's doing it out of truth to power/ not for egotistical reasons.

Jun. 24 2013 10:28 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Get a job with retirement benefits and health care benefits? LOL!!! Retirement 'benefits' have been outsourced to the gambling house and health care benefits have been outsourced to high-cost, profit driven corporations. All on top of the fact that most jobs are horrible and a bad deal for workers.

Jun. 24 2013 10:28 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To blacksocialist

As the name itself states, a "journalist" is a professional news-gatherer whose only profession is to go to the place where the event happened and report on casualities or events, and document them in his journal, and report, and not OPINE on them! That is the job of others, such as opinion writers and "talking heads" and such. Just as a doctor doesn't have to know why your are drinking and drugging, but only to try to save your organs when you come down with disease.

Jun. 24 2013 10:27 AM

@Ed -

Your logic fails...If it is NOT a part of her body, why would you be so upset if a woman has it removed? And what power of the state should compel her to let it remain in her body against her wish? It certainly IS a part of her body - created, nourished, protected and birthed - from HER body.

Jun. 24 2013 10:26 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Kerry just pointed out that the US turned over 7 people Russia wanted.

When it's time for Russia to do the same in kind - Nope.

The Obama is the dumbest administration in a long time. Anyone who trusts the world of KGB Putin is a fool.

Russia, the regime which poisoned Alexander Litvinenko with Polonium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

Jun. 24 2013 10:26 AM
RCT from NYC

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-345_l5gm.pdf

Here's the link to the Fisher (affirmative action) opinion. They sent it back for strict scrutiny. Kind of a punt, but preserved affirmative action for the time being at least.

Jun. 24 2013 10:25 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Border Fence = Another Private Sector Scam

Jun. 24 2013 10:25 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

And why is it "EcuadorIan rather than Ecuadoran?" Can someone explain that to me? I'm an American, not an AmericIan. Mexicans or not MexicIans. So why are are Ecudorans really EcuadorIans?

Jun. 24 2013 10:23 AM
blacksocialist from BKbaby

jgarbuz -true journalists don't take sides? what childlike world do you live in? journalists aren't robots, everyone has sides. the problem with the mainstream DC set is that they have taken the side of the gov't above all else. you see that in how they go after certain individuals that bring light to the misdeeds of the gov't..... just pathetic

Jun. 24 2013 10:22 AM
Nick from UWS

Bravo Molly Ball...the day an American journalist is required by the US government to have a license and pass a licensing exam is the day we truly will know that we have become a police state. We are half way there, but I hope Snowden's actions will have a positive domino effect throughout all the filthy little corners of the government/corporate machine.

Jun. 24 2013 10:22 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

If SNowden comes in, he will get a fair trial. He should face the music and pay for his crime. He should also try to prove the case that the government uses the information it sweeps up to investigate totally innocent people, or people not suspected of possible ties to terrorism.

Jun. 24 2013 10:20 AM
The Truth from Becky

Incredible. I can't believe some of the hate filled comments that are allowed to remain on here. smh.

Jun. 24 2013 10:20 AM
Neil

Please discuss the suspicious death of Michael Hastings (another WikiLeaks related person of note this week). Apparently he emailed WikiLeaks within an hour of dying in a supposed car crash. I was told that he declared to WikiLeaks in his email that their was an FBI probe aimed at him that was alarming him.

His car engine was found quite some distance from the crash leading some to wonder if the car exploded prior to his crash rather than catching fire after crashing. He may have been ready to release another leak that could have embarrassed the government.

Jun. 24 2013 10:20 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Snowden wouldn't get a fair trial in the US.

Jun. 24 2013 10:19 AM
Kate from NYC

I didn't take issue with David Gregory for two reasons. First the question about Greenwald's role had been raised by others who hadn't the opportunity to ask Greenwald directly.

Second, Greenwald is a blogger and columnist with an ax to grind. I don't equate that with being a journalist who must be non-biased. I thought Greenwald's prickly response showed Gregory hit a sensitive spot.

Jun. 24 2013 10:19 AM
blacksocialist from BKbaby

you mor*ns suggesting that snowden should came to the US and face the music, and that if he doesn't he is a coward, are pathetic. why would he subject himself to the Obama witchhunt against leakers/whistleblowers. look at Hammond, manning, assange, etc. he, snowden, has done a service to the people of this country and the world. you jingoist f**ls are just too dumb to realize it.... just pathetic

Jun. 24 2013 10:18 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

True "journalists" are not supposed to take sides on any issue, but only REPORT events as they happen, not comment on them. Prime example is the AP, the Associated Press. They are supposed to report FACTS and only the facts, and not take sides or express opinions.

Jun. 24 2013 10:18 AM
Peter from Wash Hts from Washington Heights

Brian: Here's Greenwald's bio from TheNation.com:

Glenn Greenwald
Glenn Greenwald is a former constitutional and civil rights litigator and a current contributing writer at Salon.com. He is the author of two New York Times bestselling books on the Bush administration's executive power and foreign policy abuses. His just-released book, With Liberty and Justice for Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful, is a scathing indictment of America's two-tiered system of justice. He is the recipient of the first annual I.F. Stone Award for Independent Journalism.

Read more: Glenn Greenwald | The Nation http://www.thenation.com/authors/glenn-greenwald#ixzz2X8wYU8tM
Follow us: @thenation on Twitter | TheNationMagazine on Facebook

Jun. 24 2013 10:18 AM
allen2saint from NYC

Querey: Is there a moral/ethical difference between a reporter like Woodward, who had a long and respected career as an independent professional as opposed to Greenwald, who makes a name, reputation and living off of operating out of a clear bias and operates clearly as activist?

Jun. 24 2013 10:17 AM
Jean from Midtown

Wow, I am shocked by Brian's obvious non-partisan tone in this conversation. If he wants to engage in advocacy journalism for Greenwald, he should go ahead and do so. But this silly coyness about his stance is insulting. He clearly supports Greenwald's stance in this debate.

Jun. 24 2013 10:17 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

Brian -

YOU (!) labeling Greenwald an advocacy journalist!!

LOL, that's rich.

Jun. 24 2013 10:16 AM
carolita from nyc

I'm half-Ecuadorian (it's Ecuadorian, not Ecuadoran), and from what I gather from my family, Ecuador has got to be the most conservative country in South America. So it's surprising to me that anyone would want to seek asylum there. It's not exactly a breeding ground of firebrands. This is just one of the few times Ecuador has a chance to be in the news, and perhaps they're embracing it because nothing much else is going on there. As far as Snowden, he must think that TWO refugees united in the same cause in Ecuador makes for a stronger case than just one. And there's already a treadmill in the embassy for the two of them to share.

Jun. 24 2013 10:15 AM

@MartinC -

Your dementia is making you personalize the issue. You really should seek help. The countries through which Snowden is transiting are thumbing their noses at US policy, not Obama. IF Snowden were a murder suspect or an indicted felon, do you think HK, Moscow or the Ecuadoreans would be harboring him? Do you really?

It is the nature of his offense and the US culpability for electronic snooping that cause the non-compliance, not Obama.

Jun. 24 2013 10:14 AM

Greenwald is about 5 levels of journalism above Gregory. Gregory is mouthpiece for the gvt. Please don't join him.

Jun. 24 2013 10:14 AM
peter

Gregory's question is *exactly* the thing that Chomsky wrote about in Manufacturing Consent. There is a self-selection among the media that results in craven groveling before the powers that be.

Jun. 24 2013 10:12 AM
allen2saint from NYC

Greenwald is a bullet point machine. I have no respect for him. If the law protects him, great. If not...I don't care.

Jun. 24 2013 10:11 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Gergory is craven. What a jerk.

Jun. 24 2013 10:10 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Independend Noach

Doesn't the Torah say somewhere that the sins of the fathers will be visited upon the children? So doesn't the Torah teach that children are often "collateral damage" because of the sins of their parents?

Jun. 24 2013 10:09 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

On a slow news day, like today, the media should give the people a total vacation from "news" and close down their news departments, and give their people unpaid days off. When there is no important "news," all they do is rehash old news and make stuff up. No news is good news.

Jun. 24 2013 10:06 AM
BL Producer

[[We haven't removed any comments, but please remember to keep your comments on topic to the conversation taking place on air, and civil -- and refrain from personal attacks.

-BL Moderator-]]

Jun. 24 2013 10:01 AM
Ex Lax from NY

Word to the wise Brian: I think the Heritage Foundation might be paying a few dementos to haunt your comment pages. My guess is they put an ad in Maxim.

Jun. 24 2013 09:58 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

F the Israelis too, John. And F the Russians and Chinese governments and F the UK and USA. Happy now? Stop changing the subject.

Jun. 24 2013 09:44 AM
john from office

To Independent_Noach and others, no not sick in the head, just practical and don't believe my best interest, nor of the USA, are being met by the Snowdens, Mannings and Greenwalds of the world.

Funny, when Israel kills women and children, in a just military actions, Some on this board are silent. But if the USA, we are animals.

And yes, sometimes a world power has to send a message. Like we did with Hastings. No tears are shed here.

Jun. 24 2013 09:40 AM
superf88

If Obama loses Snowden in Russia...that will be used as proof of his utter incompetence.

And if Putin fails to (at least) copy Snowden's hard drives before letting him leave Moscow, that will be evidence of his.

Jun. 24 2013 09:36 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

You are sick in the head, John from the Office.

Jun. 24 2013 09:24 AM

"john from office"s cavalier attitude about "collateral damage" extends even to children. Commenting-on the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki's sixteen-year-old son, a U.S. citizen, by a U.S. drone strike, john wrote,

"We sent a message with the killing of that "child", it was not a mistake. Traitors and their families will not be safe."
(Apr. 25 2013 01:04 PM)

As I replied then:

Kids these days. They don't even know how to choose the right parents.

Jun. 24 2013 09:23 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Snowden continues to prove he is a concerned citizen. He is holding the American Government responsible for its secret and illegal actions. Americans should not be distracted by the Hollywood chase scene now playing out in the media. America is a hypocritically and dangerous country, and the sooner the citizens wake up to this reality, the sooner we all can move forward with better and more humane policies. This US vs THEM mentality is one of a barbarian culture.

Jun. 24 2013 09:23 AM
john from office

Greenwald needs to have a one car accident. Ala Michael Hastings.

Jun. 24 2013 09:20 AM
Jim

The latest apparatchik talking points lean heavily on the "a true patriot would surrender and demand a public trial" meme. The fact that his surrender would likely not lead to a speedy and public trial is the elephant in the room.

Jun. 24 2013 09:14 AM
hilts

If Glenn "Holier Than Thou" Greenwald truly believed in upholding the rule of law, he'd urge Snowden to turn himself in to US authorities instead of trying to evade justice.

Jun. 24 2013 09:12 AM

"I mean, give Cheney at least some minimal credit that he’s being consistent, horribly—consistently horrible, but at least consistent, in contrast to these Democrats who, under Bush, were very ardent critics of the surveillance state, of secrecy, of the idea that journalists are criminals or leakers are criminals, who now have completely done a 180 reversal now that it’s a Democrat in office. And I can tell you that, by far, the most vehement and vicious attacks on our reporting and the stories that we’ve been writing come not from Republicans, but from Democratic partisans, both in politics and in the media."

- Glenn Greenwald, Democracy Now!, June 18 http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/18/glenn_greenwald_as_obama_makes_false
______________
"The language of the war lobby and the abortion lobby is from the same glossary of evasions..."
- http://no-violence.info/

Jun. 24 2013 09:00 AM
hilts

Anyone who chooses to run and hide rather than face the consequences of his or her actions is a coward. Anyone who asserts moral equivalence between the US and Chinese govts is a lunatic.

The US must do all it can to apprehend this narcissistic, malevolent, lowlife, punk and bring him to justice. Snowden is a dangerous, amoral miscreant with a messiah complex and it will be a great day for the nation once he’s been tried and convicted and starts serving a long sentence at the federal supermax prison in Florence, Colorado.

Jun. 24 2013 09:00 AM
john from office

I meant rendition and Obama in my earlier comment. Mr. Greenwald is so smug, I cannot wait till he also has a one car accident.

Jun. 24 2013 08:58 AM
john from office

Martin, maybe the world sees Obamab differently because of people like you and the disrespect you show to the president of the USA.

Ed, URGHGHGGH, one trick pony.

To the Snowden fans, can you call this human turd, anything but a traitor, now. I think like Mr. sensative, Manning, Snowden is in over his head. I vote for a missle strike on any plane he is on, or redition. For anyone who is foolish enough to be on the same plane as he is, too bad.

Jun. 24 2013 08:50 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

Re: the joint international "THUMB-YOUR-NOSE-AT-OBAMA-TOUR" by offering Snowden safe transit (the biggest topic in Washington right now)-

LOL, the nations that Bush supposedly alienated ... China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela ...(or so the liberal media promised us) would have better relations with us under Barry Obama because of his brown skin, his kindred leftist leanings and his shared hatred for a strong America.

Gosh, what happened, Brian?
Putin appears to hold the same opinion of Obama that I do.

Jun. 24 2013 07:39 AM
Ed from Larchmont

Governor Cuomo's women's equality bill failed, and Governor Cuomo refused to accept the first nine parts without the abortion part, which shows what he was really interested in. (He made a fool of himself when he kept saying 'Because it's part of her body', that's just the point, it's not part of her body, though it is in her body. He missed that day in biology class.)

Jun. 24 2013 05:37 AM

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