Streams

On the Border in CA, AZ, NM, & TX

Friday, June 21, 2013

In this segment we discuss how a border security surge would change the dynamic along the border--both in terms of the flow of people and the flow of money. To do so, we have three guests who are intimately familiar with the territories along the border: Jude Joffe-Blocksenior field correspondent in Phoenix for Fronteras: The Changing America Desk, Amy Isackson, freelance reporter in San Diego and Tijuana and Mónica Ortiz Uribe, also a senior field correspondent for Fronteras in El Paso and Ciudad Juarez.

Guests:

Amy Isackson, Jude Joffe-Block and Monica Ortiz Uribe

Comments [23]

@ "M Ali from NJ" (Jun. 22 2013 02:54 PM):

If you want to quote passages that offend modern Western sensibilities and standards of political correctness, there are also plenty in the Koran, Christian Bible and any number of other religious texts that could be pointed-to.

Jun. 23 2013 12:38 PM
M Ali from NJ

Maybe the Israelis got what was coming to them.... and I qoute the Torah: Numbers 3:
3:17 they slaughtered the BABIES! like they were insects .... sure sounds like genocide to me .... just sayin ... it's your book

31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (31:14) "Moses was wroth with the officers"
(31:15) "And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?"

(31:17) "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

(31:18) "But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
What the Bible says about Pedophilia

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Jun. 22 2013 02:54 PM

"another hypocrite right wing republican"

Hypocrisy is not partial to political parties or ideologies. It's endemic to the human condition.

Jun. 21 2013 02:20 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

TO MC again

You say "Indians"stuck to their land, come what may? Yes, but how many were left, and where could they have gone to? SOme went to Canada; some to Mexico. Jews did stick to their land as long as possible, but after occupations by Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Christian Byzantine Romans, and finally Muslim Arabs, all of whom were robbing Jews of their land, or taxing them and marginalizing what else could Jews do? That's why only an impoverished, ultraorthodox handful remained living in horrible poverty. In fact, early English Missionaries who came in the 1820s and '30s were APPALLED by what they saw! In fact, it was English Christians who began the Zionist movement based on what they saw in "Palesitne," as they called it. Of course they wanted to convert the Jews too there, but the ultraorthox would refuse even medical help if they had to get baptized in order to get it. So don't talk to me about Jews have left their land "carefree." It's total ahistorical BS! The Jewish people were forced out by waves of non-Jewish occupiers unless they either converted or lived in total poverty hugging their stones and musky "holy" books.

Jun. 21 2013 11:59 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To MC

No YOUR logic is screwed up. While I fully agree that most of America is actually "Indian" tribal lands, you can go back to Asia from where your ancestors came from. And many Jews who did try to go back to Poland after the war were murdered for daring to ask for their homes and businesses back! You can look it up. As for land, Jews were never allowed to own land in Europe except maybe England and few western countries starting in the last 19th centuries. They could only lease land. They were not even citizens for centuries! Anyhow, Israel is not "holy land." No such thing as land being holy. Only God is holy. Israel is Jewish land, not "holy land" and the Arabs with their Arabic and imported religion called Islam are occupiers of Jewish land. At least Christianity was born in the Land of Israel, but ISlam is purely a foreign import. If anyone has to leave, it's the Arabs, not the Jews.

Jun. 21 2013 11:50 AM
MC from manhattan

jgarbuz.... the Hopi have been living on THEIR land for over 3000 years ... I dont find Hopi's "coming from Poland... passing thru their "ancestral homeland for a bit " and then coming to a third country and opining on shutting the door behind them... I am sorry bro but your whole logic is so screwed up!
Fact is you CAN go back to Poland (which is doing quite well economically) and if your ties to Israel before 1949 go back to some distant tribal traditions kept for thousands of years while your ancestors thought that white Christian, Europe despite the pogroms was a better deal than the "HOly Land" when there were other Jews living there and in Ethiopia all along I think your claims are done... especially if you went and left we native people we stick with the land we have left thru thick and thin..... we don't jet cause it's inconvenient or some other poor excuse. I am sorry but that's all your explanation as an armchair Israeli patriot is ... go back there if you are so vested in it.. I am vested in the Americas and that is why I am here DESPITE all the attempts to exterminate me
שלום

Jun. 21 2013 11:41 AM
chris

Sent Ted Cruz's father's legal immigration was predicated
upon a well placed bribe (in his own, proud words.)
This might be seen as similar to the resoursrs required to pay a smuggler.

Jun. 21 2013 11:37 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To native American MC

I came from a displaced person's camp in 1949 LEGALLY thanks to Truman special orders. Yes, I do agree that I thankfully living on "indian" soil, and if they want me to go "back," it can only mean Israel, since I have no other homeland to go back to. Not to Poland, for sure. I did live in Israel for ten years, so why am I back here in the US? Because the LEFTISTS there are giving back Jewish tribal lands to the Arabs, leaving no affordable room for Jewish immigrants to live in like human beings. If not for the LEFTIST Jews in Israel, I'd be living there, not here. But the Leftists here are going to make sure life becomes unlivable here as well.

Jun. 21 2013 11:33 AM
MC from Manhattan

To jgarbuz from Queens:

a person that claims that Israel has the right to exist based on a book from 5000 years ago that was written by the group it benefits"

I guess the same frustration that caused Shephardim to riot and protest in ISRAEL when the Askinazim treated them as second class citizens....

Jun. 21 2013 11:32 AM
fuva from harlemworld

The borders need to be controlled. Especially if the immigration bill passes in its current iteration.
Immigration absolutely does exert negative net economic pressure on the middle and working class.
amalgam provided links to a healthy mix of immigration articles/studies yesterday. I've read a few so far and NONE of them deny this negative economic pressure. They may quibble with how much. They may distinguish "high skill" and "low skill" immigration. But, so far, they don't deny pressure on the middle and working class.
As Congress "deliberates" over immigration bills, there is, as usual, inadequate substantive discourse about it amongst citizens.
Humanitarian concerns should be primary. But, in this economy, we must also consider how much negative economic pressure we can withstand. Let's be grown-up here and actually confront the complexity of the issue.

Jun. 21 2013 11:29 AM
MC from Manhattan

I am Native American and the majority of Mexicans in this city look like me because they are Native people.
Who were here long before the "wretched refuse of Europe was tossed upon these teaming shores"
Who are you people to tell my people that they cannot move across the lands we have moved back and forth upon for centuries?

GET LOST! GO Back where YOU came from if you don't have an ancestor that was here before the 1600's
BTW Natives can move back and forth between Canada and The US freely due to the Jay treaty

Jun. 21 2013 11:29 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To MC

Sweden’s immigration consensus is in peril

Margaret Wente
The Globe and Mail
Published Saturday, Jun. 01 2013, 6:00 AM EDT

"As the fires die out in the troubled suburbs surrounding Stockholm, arguments about the root causes of last week’s riots are running rampant. Sweden prides itself on being the most tolerant, inclusive country in the world. So what impelled hundreds of angry young men to run amok, torching cars and setting fire to police stations and even their own schools?"

Jun. 21 2013 11:26 AM
john from office

Marco Rubio and Rafael Edwardo Cruz, AKA Ted Cruz, will pay for this with the loss of their seats. Just like Mr. West. Tea party will reduce the Republican party to a 4th rate party. The party of no, the party of hate the party of racism, the anti science and intellect party.

Guys the wets will remember, we are not stupid.

Jun. 21 2013 11:24 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

The Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall was intended to keep people INSIDE the vast communist prison. Nobody was climbing the Berlin Wall to get into the "worker's paradise."

Jun. 21 2013 11:23 AM
Amy from Manhattan

"Mexicans know" how to get over the border/past the barriers? Many Mexicans come into the US legally every year & stay legally. Many more Mexicans stay in Mexico their whole lives. They don't know how to get past the barriers. Not even all the Mexicans who do enter illegally know how, but the "coyotes" who exploit them do. So please don't make it sound as if Mexicans in general know how to get past the barriers illegally.

Jun. 21 2013 11:22 AM
Larry from Brooklyn

What's going on in New Mexico?

Jun. 21 2013 11:22 AM
MC from Manhattan

" A country that cannot control it's borders is a crumbling entity" blah blah blah so China which tried a wall thousands of years ago and does not build one now is crumbing? How about Sweden? Do THEY have a wall?... let's go down the lists of countries that do not have complete and utter control over their borders .... well I guess that sums up that line of thinking ... it's idiotic!

Jun. 21 2013 11:22 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

I LOVE walls! What's wrong with walls? If I didn't have walls around my apartment, I'd be broke and dead! Now she's blaming the walls for the illegals who died going through the deserts! What a looney! Maybe criminals should blame me for being broke because my locks and walls help keep them out.

But a wall around the WHOLE COUNTRY, as the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

Jun. 21 2013 11:21 AM
JH from Queens

20 BILLION? well let's see .... 1 billion = 1000 million .. that means you can give 1 million people $1000. so lets extend the math 20 BIllion means you can give TWENTY MILLION PEOPLE $1000.00 What is the annual income of poor migrants in Mexico.. What industry could be invested in on the borders to employ people and could use and grow on a 20 billion capitol injection? OH I forgot THAT sort of economic aid is reserved for Germans and the Axis powers that tried to destroy us in WW2!

Racism is sometimes subtle but here it is soooooo obvious. Rubio is evil.... Latino Americans remember the onerous " path " to be legal that you are being made to go thru. When these others just jumped off a boat and were welcome because they were needed to immerse Native American peoples in a sea of Europeans and take THEIR land away from them.

" Mr Gorbachov, tear this wall down" said another hypocrite right wing republican.... America in general... so they want to divert resources from the space programe (while the Chinese host a press conference from their space station) because they want to delay the inevitable latinization of a country that has only been "English" for about 100 years?
Fools ....

Jun. 21 2013 11:19 AM
Sunshar

Of course the border means with Mexico not CANADA, because the people from Mexico are brown and the people from Canada are generally not brown.

Oh, and would the "tea party" in the Congress allow the great expenditures to continue???

Jun. 21 2013 11:17 AM
john from office

Maybe we can send some of the Ramapo Hasidim down there. They will stop the mexicans in their tracks. They would create such a hostile environment that no one will want to be their.

Jun. 21 2013 11:16 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

First of all, doubling the number of border police could help some veterans get jobs. Second, a country that cannot control its borders, e.g., Afghanistan, the US, et al., is not a true nation. It's crumbling entity. If the US cannot hermetically seal or control its borders, it's doom is inevitable, if it hasn't been envious. Why should anyone succeed in getting across? The only way in must be the legal way in. How many illegals does Mexico tolerate on its own soil?

Jun. 21 2013 11:13 AM
Nat from NYC

The billions Republicans demand we spend on border security is going straight into the pockets of their rich security industry pals. No mystery.

Jun. 21 2013 11:11 AM

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