Streams

Immigration in America

Thursday, June 20, 2013

Alvaro Vargas Llosa, senior fellow at the Independent Institute and author of the new book Global Crossings: Immigration, Civilization, and America (Independent Institute, 2013), discusses the book and how it relates to the current immigration debate. 

Guests:

Alvaro Vargas Llosa

Comments [32]

Ron Raphael from Chelsea New York

First, we are all immigrants or descended from same,"legally or illegally"
Take a look our family names> in many ways the will denote our nationality.

Second: what would these offials think if Mexico was the first to build this fence to keep out American immigrants that they don't want in their country?

Jun. 20 2013 03:12 PM
fuva from harlemworld

amalgam, thanks, on behalf of us all.
Hopefully there'll be a time for me to follow up in light of your literature.

Jun. 20 2013 01:00 PM
fuva from harlemworld

amalgam, thanks, on behalf of us all.
Hopefully there'll be a time for me to follow up in light of your literature.

Jun. 20 2013 01:00 PM
amalgam from NYC by day, NJ by night

@ fuva -
Below is just a tiny sampling of the huge amount of analyses, reports, studies, etc. that demonstrate that immigrants are a net benefit to the economy.

Simon Johnson, economist: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/how-immigration-reform-would-help-the-economy/

Carter and Sutch, economic historians: http://www.nber.org/papers/h0106

Charles Jones, economist: http://www.stanford.edu/~chadj/SourcesAER2002.pdf

Hinosa and Robinson, social scientists: http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/adding-it-accurately-gauging-economic-impact-immigration-reform

Greenstone and Looney, Brookings Inst.: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/jobs/posts/2012/05/04-jobs-greenstone-looney

European Commission-funded report (for both US and Europe): http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/economicintegration.pdf

Hanson, Cato Institute, right-wing perspective http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2012/1/cj32n1-3.pdf

Finally, this last analysis that takes a deep look at the pros and cons (of which there are both) to immigrants effect on native, low-wage workers from a strongly left-wing perspective.

Does Immigration Hurt U.S.-Born Workers?: http://newpol.org/content/does-immigration-hurt-us-born-workers

Jun. 20 2013 12:49 PM
fuva from harlemworld

amalgam, cite your sources.
Higher rates of business creation does not equal a high ENOUGH rate, at high ENOUGH wages, to address
this Gilded Age level of income/opportunity equality in which
profits from consumption still go disproportionately to the rich...
Given its current demographics, maxims about immigration don't always apply. Anatomization is in order here; the devil's in the details.

Jun. 20 2013 11:58 AM
The Truth from Becky

BONNIE? Mental block or huge slip of the tongue?

Jun. 20 2013 11:49 AM
sanych

john, it affects everybody, and I believe it will affect me in a bad way.

The lines are drawn - I am not Latino, I do not employ illegal workers and compete against foreign workers. So, I am against this reform.

And I am a registered Republican who now votes independent.

Third party anyone?

Jun. 20 2013 11:49 AM
Taher from Croton on Hudson

A few years ago I was visiting London, during the European Unions good times. The city of London was filled with Eastern Europeans. The locals were resentful and angry at the over supply of labor and immigrants.
In recent times these issues have become fuel for extreme right wing parties through out Europe.
Unchecked migration has huge consequence for all, which includes social discord and violence. This guests ideas are bogus, and not to be taken seriously.

Jun. 20 2013 11:48 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Don't know if your oversight is mistaken or convenient, Bonnie from Long Island, NY. But, of course, my ancestors did not choose.

Jun. 20 2013 11:46 AM
amalgam from NYC by day, NJ by night

@ fuva -

As the CBO, other economic analyses and history show, immigrants - at a rate greater than the general population - create businesses and expand the economy and workforce through those businesses. This, along with above-replacement demographics and the attendant increase in consumption, are the main reasons why there can be a net economic benefit to an economy.

As you mention and as is shown throughout history, there can definitely be competition in lower wage jobs as immigrants come in. I think there can be public policy responses - from local to federal - that can address these major problems and which are currently missing since in this latest version of Neoliberal economic globalization that we are experiencing.

Jun. 20 2013 11:44 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Any country that cannot secure and control its borders is not going to be nation for very long.

Jun. 20 2013 11:44 AM
sanych

It is funny how everybody is talking about illegal immigrants, while the Gang of Eight wants to import unlimited number of "highly skilled" workers drastically increasing number of H-1B visas and granting any foreigner graduating from the US college a green card.

It is race to the bottom, pure and simple...

Jun. 20 2013 11:43 AM
john from office

sanych, the advocates are Latino because it affects them more. The are the largest group.

Cannot wait for the next presidental election, Republicans will get the heads handed to them, again. The party of no, the party of no science, the party hate.

And I am a republican.

Jun. 20 2013 11:43 AM
Bonnie from Long Island, NY

I believe in free movement of people as a human right. If you are an American Citizen, unless you are Native American, you are the result of your ancestors choosing to move to America. I do not think someone's life should be determined by where they were born, but by what choices they make. If people were able to move freely then perhaps countries / governments would attempt to make their countries more desirable places to live and work. Immigrants are only parasites on a community / society when they are blocked from being legitimate contributing members of that society. America is a huge country, we aren't running out of space for people to live any time soon.

Jun. 20 2013 11:42 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Yes, Europe is a very small continent compared to most others, and landlessness and a burgeoning population cause large emigration out and towards the US, Canada, Argentina, Africa, et al. But in a large country like the US, there is lots of room and ethnic conflicts are less likely, but it has happened.

Your last called spoke about Africa. But is and was a continent of MANY black nations that were in conflict with each other before the White Man came. African-Americans are the descendents of MANY black nations, or tribes as we call them. The only thing is, they lost contact with their original origins. Which is why, IMO, black Americans had less cohesivemess as a group, because in reality, they were brought out as many different nations as the Europeans who came voluntarily. Only they were cut off from their roots.

Jun. 20 2013 11:41 AM
foodaggro from Brooklyn

Hello?! The world has changed in the past 10,000 years - we have new rules to protect ourselves from being invaded and losing our quality of life.

Jun. 20 2013 11:40 AM
pliny from soho

it's not that they want to come here
but that they want to bring there here

Jun. 20 2013 11:40 AM
David from Fredericksburg, VA

People like this guest won't be happy until we're all serfs serving the Lords of Capital - the new feudalism.

Jun. 20 2013 11:40 AM
fuva from harlemworld

David from Fredericksburg -- aiight; good point. Meanwhile they either horde the resultant huge profits or use them to lobby against equity.

Thumb me down, but also answer the argument.

Jun. 20 2013 11:39 AM
Peg

Historically, when did national borders begin to limit human migration? When did humans need to have proper documentation to leave a nation they were born in to go to another nation where they were not. When did the whole world begin issuing birth certificates?

Jun. 20 2013 11:38 AM

Fascinating thought-experiment but you need to specify how concepts/institutions we're stuck with like the nation-state and citizenship will be altered to accommodate this. Also, I envision a world of ever more brutal competition.

Jun. 20 2013 11:37 AM
jf from the future

I love this guy! Of course it's a right to go wherever we want when ever we want without being searched or detained or killed. Slavery is illegal right? There needs to be interstate highways for bicycles. Bicycle only towns. I Should be able to live and go outside without being assaulted by cars exhaust and looming hulks of metal with grown doddlers driving them.

Jun. 20 2013 11:36 AM
sanych

Immigration as a human right?

To paraphrase the joke about Communism - they should try it on dogs first...

Also, it is kind of interesting how the advocates for illegal immigrants are universally Latinos - like the person being interviewed - or people who directly benefit from cheap labor.

Jun. 20 2013 11:35 AM
foodaggro from Brooklyn

The idea of an immigration free-for-all is extremely idealistic and naive and conjures images of an even messier, more complicated and disorganized world. Nightmare.

Jun. 20 2013 11:35 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Well, we saw what too much immigration of Visigoths did to the Roman Empire.

But the idea of borderless world is not going to happen, because ethnic states like Japan won't go along with that. Yes, there are no borders today to keep out capital, and I agree that as long as international capital has that advantage over international labor, the rich will continue to get much richer and the working class will stay suck, and suck it up. But the fact is, that most nation-states represent ethnic groups that created those original nation states. The US, Canada, Australia are exceptions because they are all settler states made up of settlers and immigrants. The fact is, that each ethnic group has its own culture and temperament, and in reality there are tensions between them. Look at what happened to Yugoslavia and the USSR. Or even Czechsolovakia. Or Lebanon. Multiethnic states more often than not tend to break up on ethnic grounds. Could that happen with America? Only time will tell.

Jun. 20 2013 11:35 AM
Jerry from nyc

if it was so simple, what about people who live there, established social services and institutions and pay for it?, illegals come and exploit the system, "we had nothing back home and here so are many freebies? why not move here and use it

Jun. 20 2013 11:34 AM
john from office

Marco Rubio and Rafael Edwardo Cruz, AKA Ted Cruz, should be ashamed of their positions.

The idea of open borders would not work, we would be swamped.

Jun. 20 2013 11:33 AM
David from Fredericksburg, VA

Why is our right over immigration superior to an employer's?

How about this - if you want to pay dirt wages, go to the dirt country you're gathering these people from and deal with the corruption and unusable infrastructure.

If you want to use the resources of our country, then you need to also you the human resources from here!

Jun. 20 2013 11:33 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Folks, 1+1=2. And it's that simple.
Immigration lowers job availability and working conditions for citizens.
How can its net economic effect in this current Gilded Age economy be positive? Please.
Yet another nuanced issue that we are not equipped to productively discuss...
Wanna talk human rights? Fine. But not based on lies and delusions.

Jun. 20 2013 11:28 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Folks, 1+1=2. And it's that simple.
Immigration lowers job availability and working conditions for citizens.
How can its net economic effect in this current Gilded Age economy be positive? Please.
Yet another nuanced issue that we are not equipped to productively discuss...
Wanna talk human rights? Fine. But not based on lies and delusions.

Jun. 20 2013 11:28 AM
gary from queens

Illegal immigrants are now linked to the IRS scandal. It begins with the loophole called the "Additional Child Tax Credit". It’s a fully-refundable credit of up to $1000 per child, and it’s meant to help working families who have children living at home. But 13 Investigates has found many undocumented workers are claiming the tax credit for kids who live in Mexico — lots of kids in Mexico.

Jeffrey Lords takes it from there, but my question is, and has always been, WHY does the media always showcase the hardships of the illegal immigrant, and not how the illegal immigrant is hardhipping people in this nation, and the nation as a whole?

The IRS Immigration Fraud Scandal
By Jeffrey Lord on 6.18.13 @ 6:09AM
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/06/18/the-irs-immigration-fraud-scan

Jun. 20 2013 11:04 AM
newyorkita from nyc

There is something a lot of people forget when they brag about how their parents were immigrants who came to America and "did it the right way." My mother also came to American "the right way." She didn't have to come. She wanted to come. Her family didn't have to come, before her. They planned to come, they also "did it the right way." They did it the right way because they could afford to. They were an upper middle class family, who knew how to do things, who had the wherewithal to do it the right way. They weren't desperate working class people who had to run across a desert in the middle of the night, they hadn't paid criminals to help them cross a border, they didn't suffer from a low level of education and social standing, not to mention a lack of self-confidence. I think there is a big difference between the people who "did it right" and the people who didn't. Sure, mixed among those people who "didn't do it right" are criminals, but that is what law enforcement and immigration investigation is for: to weed these people out. They are not all criminals. What people who say, "my parents did it right" are saying is that they only want a certain class of immigrant to come to the United States. They are just as bigoted as everyone else.

Jun. 20 2013 08:12 AM

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