Two Against TARP II

Monday, January 26, 2009

We speak with Harry Moroz, Drum Major Institute research associate, and Nicole Gelinas, fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor to its City Journal. Both argue against TARP II, but from different perspectives.


Nicole Gelinas and Harry Moroz

Comments [18]

mijosc from brooklyn

I listened to Nicole Gelinas say that the failure of the banking system vindicated the free market, that the free market had exposed the problems. I think she needs to justify this remark; the credit market seemed to be functioning in a very free, unregulated fashion for years and the results were disastrous. That's not something the free market exposed, it was the result.

Jan. 28 2009 12:48 PM
TS from Manhattan

The subprime mortgage scheme involved two fundamental problems rarely discussed by government or media (corporate or public): China and the Credit Default Swap (CDS) insurance market, which was tied to the subprime mortgage scam. Derivatives--complex financial contracts formulated by physicists and mathematician--structurally tied to the CDS scam only totaled $60 Trillion. However, the unregulated derivatives market has an estimated "nominal value" of approximately $600 Trillion; although we don't know for sure, since it's unregulated!? To give you an idea of this incomprehensible value: The total value of all real estate in the entire world is $75 Trillion. All the stocks and bonds in the world are valued at $100 Trillion.

Bernie Madoff's pyramid scheme is a teeny weeny $50 Billion. Too bad no one's talking about Over The Counter Derivatives; since the financial services industry has screwed everyone--except themselves--perhaps 10,000 times worse.

Jan. 26 2009 12:02 PM
Steve from NY, NY

Economic populists might be able to agree on a voting pattern similar to how new Senator Gillibrand, and just 26 House Democrats from left and right (aka Bush Dogs) voted:

1. Vote against TARP in October.

2. Vote in favor of the auto bailout in December

3. Vote in favor of Barney Frank's oversight bill last Wednesday.

4. Vote against the release of the second half of the funds Thursday.


The 26 Dems, least 5 of whom are conservative Dems, voted that Populist pattern:

Davis (TN)
Green, Gene
Johnson (GA)
Sanchez, Loretta
Sánchez, Linda T.
Scott (VA)

Jan. 26 2009 11:31 AM
Josh from Brooklyn

Brian at #8. While I laud your proposal, I have one problem. Feasibility. I would love to try your idea (I could use a new job too). Who would be creating this dream? The people who would create the banks, distribute the money, issue the IPOs are exactly the ones we want to put into jail. Who's going to do it? Chuck Schumer (millions of $$ from wall street lobbysts, so no)? Obama (Larry Summers leading this mess, so no)?. That leaves us Henry Waxman, who nobody takes seriously and Arnold who has no pull outside of Cali.

Jan. 26 2009 11:27 AM
Joe Corrao from Brooklyn

Wow, Nicole Gelinas is talking sense! How did she get on?

Jan. 26 2009 11:20 AM
Joe Corrao from Brooklyn

so Larry Summers says get credit flowing, but Obama makes speeches about sacarfice and thinks they are making it up as they go along and are saying what ever is politically prudent at the time. People need to do what they need to do to survive and not rely on Big Gubmit to help/save us...listen to Peter Schiff.

Jan. 26 2009 11:19 AM
alex from Brooklyn

What's funny is that no one listened to Nicole's view 4 months ago. All we heard was slander against the free market.

Jan. 26 2009 11:18 AM
Susan from Kingston, New York

Over and over and over again, the money goes to the same rich white men who have bankrupted this economy....with their reckless management of the banks and excessive executive compensation. There needs to strict controls on the financial system and executive compensation so that the money does not disappear into the same pockets. The more the government tries to rein these guys in, the louder these fat pigs squeal!

Jan. 26 2009 11:18 AM

Why don't the 2 guests apply for jobs in the Obama Adminstration or in Congress? They seem so much smarter than the people who are there now. Have any of them ever managed large scale projects?

Checking there bios they have not ever managed anything.

Jan. 26 2009 11:17 AM
Josh from Brooklyn

Here's your TARP results. John Thain.

Jan. 26 2009 11:16 AM
brian from NYC

"JAIL the fraudsters, including those in Congress, Treasury and on Wall Street. Bluntly - if we can find a predicate felony to nail you with in this mess, off you go.
REMOVE all of the overseers. This includes The Fed. Set up a new agency that is charged with enforcing all of the laws related to the financial system including The Federal Reserve Act, and empower them with subpoenas. Direct that they must act and operate "in the sunshine", with everything published on The Web. You do an evil thing, the public sees it. They try to hide it, the public sees it.
DEFAULT all the bad debt. Yes, this "booms" a lot of banks. Tough.
SET UP new banks. Take the remaining $350 billion and capitalize ten banks with $35 billion each. IPO them to the public. By law no officer, current or former, of an existing public bank may serve on these firm's boards. Now we've got the means to replace the credit creation the boomed banks can't do any more."

Jan. 26 2009 11:16 AM
Josh from Brooklyn

here's oversight for you. John Thain.

Jan. 26 2009 11:15 AM
Josh from Brooklyn

What is Larry Summers even doing here? He started this mess when he deregulated these banks when he worked for Clinton. He allowed commercial banks to merge with investment banks with insurance companies. Credit Default swaps were illegal before he got he hands on them. Mortgage regulations were loosened allowing for the sub-prime crisis. Why is the person (or lead person) who caused this trying to figure out the solution? I don't see Dick Cheney involved in closing Gitmo.

Jan. 26 2009 11:07 AM
fyjdfhf from

great comment kc/4... first the media missed the boat on the crisis itself, which i consider to have really started in 04 or so (once banks began suspending credit checks and lending to anyone) the so called media doesn't understand its singular role in watchdogging TARP. When citizens point this out for some reason the media --- which ordinarily rationalizes questionable stories as "news" because "it happened", belittles protesters who are doing so against the status quo. Those antiwar nyc protests in 02-04 were massive -- and eerily unreported.

Jan. 26 2009 10:52 AM
KC from NYC

I went to a protest on Wall Street during the passage of TARP I; there were easily over 1,000 people there, libertarians, communists, and everything in-between. According to the organizers, there were similar protests in cities across the US. No one in the mainstream media seemed to cover it (including Public Radio), despite the fact that the New York financial district was essentially shut down by it. (In fairness, NY1 gave it a couple seconds--and called all the protesters "Marxists.")

And now it turns out, as with the Iraq War, where protesters were similarly under-reported or mislabeled as a bunch of same-thinking radicals, the protesters were right. Aren't these people owed an apology, and shouldn't the media start doing its job?

Jan. 26 2009 10:34 AM

Not to mention all those marginal businesses that NEED to evaporate already. And houses that NEED to sell for half of what the suckers bought them for in the middle of the bubble they themselves created. and the $2-$3 billion a year in US taxpayer funds that since 1980 has propped up Egypt's " government." Yes, I agree with Shahin Khalisdar/1. Eat less, want less.

Jan. 26 2009 08:39 AM
Shahin Khalisdar from NYC

I am sick and tired of hearing the non-sense. It seems that the duty upon politicians to please lobbyist. If the lobbyist is not happy than politicians are not going to get power. What's a disgrace. People are losing job and going to be homeless and American politicians are getting mad to spend more money in Israeli war, Iraqi War, Afganistani War, War on Terror, Abortion, Drug addiction programs, all the disgraceful and non-sense programs and so on. Country is bankrupt and they are dreaming to spend *** money. bunch of criminals.

Jan. 24 2009 07:53 PM
Jeof from Astoria!

Show ME the MONEY!!!!

Jan. 24 2009 02:06 AM

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