Streams

DNC Coverage: Hour 1

Thursday, August 28, 2008

Clarence Page, syndicated columnist for the Chicago Tribune, reviews last night's speeches.

Then
Barack Obama's Senior Foreign Policy Advisor, Susan Rice, discusses Senator Obama's approach to the war on terror.

Then
Meet the Delegates: Tennessee's Sydney Chism

Guests:

Sydney Chism, Clarence Page and Susan Rice

Comments [124]

Joe Corrao from Brooklyn

John McCain has the POW thing...wtf does that mean?

Aug. 28 2008 09:50 PM
NPV from Sea Cliff , N.Y

JOB OFFER: President of the United States
No Experience necessary... The DNC/08 replete with rhetoric, smoke and mirrors,and briliantly packaged lies. An insult to every intelligent person who knows and understands American History !

Aug. 28 2008 09:43 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Cheers, all. Until next time.

Aug. 28 2008 03:46 PM
harmon michaels from jersey city, nj

mc (68)
on the outside chance you see this:
her original health care plan was a joke. so was her recent one. so is obama's. anything other than single-payer/universal is a joke. polls say nearly 2/3's of the public agree on this.
i don't think her record on the clean-up after 9/11 is any big deal. seems like an awful lot of people were allowed to toil away and get sick. if she'd been ahead of the curve on that, i'd say fine. she wasn't so i just see her as having done her job competently. nothing more.
and she's the one who criticized obama for having nothing but a speech to his credit so it ill behooves those who defend her non-existent record to bring up beijing.
to be honest, i don't much care for obama myself and may vote independent this year.

Aug. 28 2008 03:42 PM
hjs from 11211

happy b-day daughter of david!

Aug. 28 2008 03:27 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Signing off, now. I have a date with my boys to go to Coney Island. Ben, this has been fun. I hope you enjoyed the discourse as much as I did. I think that liberals can get very smug and full of themselves when their tenets are challenged and I hope that we were able to get past that today.

David! enjoy your daughter. hjs, BORED, later. Have a good weekend.

Aug. 28 2008 03:14 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Ben,
I have a hard time buying the 90-95% but I don't claim to really know.

It sounds like you are not really clear about justification, based on your last post and on an earlier comment about rape or incest. Like I said, the result is the same for the fetus.

I'm not that clear either. I believe a woman should have sovereignty over her body but I abhor the idea of using abortion as birth control or even as a selector of gender or some other attribute. I believe this is practiced in China. This murky ground is what makes it hard to craft responsible public policy.

Aug. 28 2008 03:02 PM
David! from NYC

@ Ben--"...I'm sure it wasn't Planned Parenthood, though." Now THAT was funny! :-)

Aug. 28 2008 02:52 PM
David! from NYC

mc, she is a delight and a wonder, and I often think of that song from "Sound of Music": "somewhere in my youth or childhood, I must have done something good".

Thank you

Aug. 28 2008 02:50 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

I don't think it's ever justified. People can reach decisions in good faith others disagree. (i.e. taking someone off of life support). I wish the oddball cases were the only ones we had to deal with.
I forget the source but it's 90-95%. Intuition and common sense tell you it's that high, as well. I'll have to look it up online to give you the source. I'm sure it wasn't planned parenthood, though.

Aug. 28 2008 02:50 PM
mc from Brooklyn

David!
Congrats on your daughter's first birthday. You are in for the ride of your life.

I have two boys, somewhat older. I love them more than anything. It gets better and better.

Aug. 28 2008 02:47 PM
BORED

@ Ben grief is a bad word. What kind of response do you get.

Aug. 28 2008 02:46 PM
BORED

Ben serious question, when you ask republicans what they believe do you get the same grief.

Aug. 28 2008 02:44 PM
David! from NYC

Ben, I just re-read your post 108.

Are you familiar with Bishop Reuben Job's booklet "3 Simple Rules"?

1 Do no harm
2 Do good
3 Stay in love with God

If you haven't read it, I think you might enjoy it.

Aug. 28 2008 02:42 PM
David! from NYC

Ben,

One set of real but not specific scenarios:

a condom breaks
anti-biotics or some other med reduces the efficacy of the pill

These lead to pregnancy despite the efforts to practice contraception. If that couple then goes through a lengthy, painful decision-making process and opts for an abortion, is that irresponsible? Is it worse than bearing a child who isn't wanted?

(by the way, I have a daughter who will be one on Sunday, and I am grateful for her. From an emotional standpoint, it isn't easy for me to defend the right to choose.)

Aug. 28 2008 02:38 PM
mc from Brooklyn

OK, Ben. I think that clarifies your position. So you think that access to abortion may be justified in some cases? I'm just asking because the result is the same for the fetus. If you feel that it is justified in some cases then you are probably closer to most people (myself included) than you sounded from the earlier posts. Just goes to show you cannot know what someone thinks unless you ask.

I agree about abortion as a contraceptive. Not good for anyone, including the woman. But the "bedding down" part may be more complicated. I cannot begin to guess what the dynamics are between all sexual partners, so this gets into dangerous ground. If someone makes a mistake like the one you allude to, should she then compound it by bringing into the world a baby she is not equipped to raise?

Where do you get your statistics on the reasons for most abortions?

I agree, women should maintain better control of their lives, I just cannot pretend to foresee every situation.

The case in Florida was a few years ago when Bush's brother was still gov. He ended up OK'ing the abortion.

Aug. 28 2008 02:35 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

There are always thorny cases. I'm not familiar with the one you cite, but I always say first do no harm. Those cases, like rape and incest, are a miniscule portion of abortions.
The sad fact is that abortion is de facto post-conception birth control, which is what all of the advocates said it would never be, but now all staunchly defend.
The consent to the use of her body started when she bedded her man. That was her, and his, by the way, initial "choice." Don't take the man off the hook.
My advice is to be rather selective about whom you practice breeding with lest you end up preggers, all alone, and faced with poor options all the way around. If you do things the old fashioned way, sure you'll miss out on some fun, but you'll actually be in control of life instead of the other way around.

Aug. 28 2008 02:23 PM
David! from NYC

Ben, I would echo mc's question. As I stated earlier, these are complex issues.

Hopefully, if I have shown you anything, it's that adage, "We needn't be disagreeable to disagree." I don't know how frequently you've read these boards. hjs is among the most faithful. Although I've never met him in person, I'd hazard a guess from reading his words that he, too, is very generous and would do a lot to help you if you needed.

Neither do I doubt your generosity. Stats show that conservatives are very generous to charitable causes. Since I work for a non-profit, I am appreciative to all who give to charity.

Besides, let's face it. One can safely assume that most of us who read and post to these messages boards is better off financially than many, many others in our society.

Aug. 28 2008 02:19 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Ben Thompson:
Is there some way you can balance the civil rights of the unborn, which is not a small issue, with the civil rights and the implication of denying a woman the right to consent to the use of her body? I agree that using abortion as birth control is awful. But that is not the only reason it is used. How can you know all the reasons someone might make that choice? What about the 12-year-old ward of the state of Florida? Should they have forced her to carry and give birth?

Aug. 28 2008 01:57 PM
eva

HJS,
I'm a bigger fan! Because you had to win me over with your consistency! I have to sign off now, but, like a gladiator to Caesar, I salute you!

Aug. 28 2008 01:55 PM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
I must also chime in. These are the most wordy posts I have seen from you in a long time. As someone who has diarhea of the words I admire your conciseness. However, today it has been fun to read more.

I'm still a fan ;-)

Aug. 28 2008 01:52 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

David! Thanks for the kind words. Defending the wholesale slaughter of millions does that to some people.
Eva- I guess the "ha ha" I added didn't make it clear I was having fun with my response.
I'm as compassionate as you'll find. Looking out for the helpless qualifies, I think. Trying to steer others away from error is usually good, too.
It should be obvious, too, but I'll state that being anti-abortion is not being anti-poor.

Aug. 28 2008 01:51 PM
hjs from 11211

there's always 2016

Aug. 28 2008 01:45 PM
David! from NYC

Who's desserted you? I'm just amused at the intensity of your posts.

And it is true, I once announced my candidacy for president of the hjs fan club--but I lost in the caucuses!

nyuk, nyuk, nyuk

Aug. 28 2008 01:39 PM
hjs from 11211

david!
:(
u were once my biggest fan.
fair weather fan

Aug. 28 2008 01:35 PM
David! from NYC

Ben,

Congrats. I can't ever recall seeing hjs so fired up.

Aug. 28 2008 01:31 PM
hjs from 11211

Thompson
are u having fun!
one doesn't have to be omniscient to read the statistic. many, not all poor kids become poor adults in this country (no money for education) and some go to jail.
YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE POOR AFTER BIRTH. do u??
that must be hypocrisy if anything is.
you talk about the infant mortality rate. the USA has one of the highest. WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!
poor souls die in the womb because poor mothers have no health care or food.
being anti-choice is about keeping people poor. i wish we could lower the number of 'dead babies' also but the gop is antisex ed. is that hypocrisy?

Aug. 28 2008 01:04 PM
eva

ben thompson wrote:
Also- where does the debt rate / infant mortality rate correlation arise? That's a new one. As far as what I've done to reduce abortions, that's between me and my wife (and my kids!). Ha ha."
That's a new one? Not if you're paying attention, kid. With a $9.5 trillion federal deficit, we're not going to be able to afford the same level of health care for women or children. And, if you'd read my post (or pharma news), we've moved our vaccine production offshore. What do babies need? Not republican talking points, but vaccines. Not republican talking points, but infant care, not all of which can be provided by moms. Have you, uh, checked out the infant mortality rates in the US and how they compare to Europe and Japan? Why don't you check it and get back to me.
As for ESP - unless you work in the maternity ward or infant pediatrics, at least a few of us on this board have done a great deal more baby care than you have.
And brother, it is INTERESTING that you want to claim this issue of reducing abortions as being between yourself and your wife. That is, you are suddenly claiming it is a personal matter. Well, we are on the same page, then, aren't we? So why are you making the personal matters of women suddenly YOUR business? But seriously, if it's important enough for you to talk this much about, why don't you get involved with a common ground group that supplies birth control and abstinence education to young women?

Aug. 28 2008 12:56 PM
hjs from 11211

mc
honors system for taxes, or just pay what u want or just ask for volunteers to run jails, build roads and if u can't teach ur own kids to read then you should be poor! old people don't need healthcare they are just going to die of something anyway
the middle class just drives up wages anyway

i dream of the 1920's those were the good old days

Aug. 28 2008 12:47 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Eva,
Here we go again with the ESP/ omniscience I noted a couple hours ago.
Also- where does the debt rate / infant mortality rate correlation arise? That's a new one. As far as what I've done to reduce abortions, that's between me and my wife (and my kids!). Ha ha.
hjs: omniscience, again. You seem to know how everyone's lives will turn out. I guess you're right. Far better to snuff 'em out and not even give them a chance in the greatest, most prosperous country ever. Again, 35% of abortions are black children. Margaret Sanger would highly approve.

Aug. 28 2008 12:46 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Hi Ben Thompson:

OK, so let's cut the Dept. of Ed and HUD. How much does that save? If you cut defense you are starting to talk real money. Next to entitlements it has the biggest share. What shall we cut from Defense? I'm listening.

As for Medicaid and Medicare - agreed. But in order to do this we need to rethink how we deliver and pay for all health care in the US. The VA is pretty cost-effective, partly because it IS part of Defense and not subject to congressional whim. What reforms would you like to see in health care delivery?

I am also no fan of NCLB. Unfunded mandates. Also no fan of the IRS. Who shall we have collect the taxes?

Aug. 28 2008 12:39 PM
hjs from 11211

thompson
loved for 80 years. i want what u are on.

how many unwanted children have u adopted.
u talk about cutting taxes. who will pay for these unwanted souls born to poor kids in the urban centers, is it OK with u if they starve death after birth/baptism?
you love to fetus but hate the child ( if not hate at least u want nothing to do with them, until they end up in the privatized prison system, u dream of profiting from)

Aug. 28 2008 12:35 PM
eva

Ben,
Given the amount of debt this country is running, there's no guarantee those kids would live to eight weeks. I don't think you understand the scope of the problem. Or how vulnerable we are, having moved all our manufacturing (even baby vaccines) offshore, meanwhile alienating our allies with a moronic foreign policy.
Ben, focus on the problem at hand (and answer the questions, please.) Roe v. Wade has been determined, and it's not being reversed, as far as we know. In the meantime, what are YOU doing to reduce the overall number of abortions? Because there are some great common ground groups you could work with... unless you just prefer yelling at women about defenseless babies. (BTW, I think several of us on this board have provided more care to babies than you ever will.)

Aug. 28 2008 12:35 PM
hjs from 11211

thompson
no, i looked, no hate today from me!

Aug. 28 2008 12:28 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Oh yeah. Medicaid / Medicare will get their budgets slashed and the audit of all audits. Look at how NY State administers them and you'll see they're rife with waste and abuse, in the billions of dollars.

hjs: I guess you mean me?

Aug. 28 2008 12:28 PM
seth from Long Island

Ben,

You should peruse this site at your convenience. You may find some useful information
http://www.governmentisgood.com

Aug. 28 2008 12:28 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Eva,
Ok, instead of souls, how about defenseless human life merely weeks away from being welcomed into the world they'll live in for over 80 years?
mc: How about the Dept of Education, HUD and Defense for starters? My way guts the IRS, too? Every teacher I know hates NCLB, Housing and Education are local matters, anyway. Defense will get a haircut but will retain enough to meet the country's needs, always.

Aug. 28 2008 12:23 PM
hjs from 11211

thompson
me??

Aug. 28 2008 12:21 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

hjs:
look back through the comments. Who are the ones promulgating hate?

Aug. 28 2008 12:14 PM
eva

Well, Ben, I am no fan of abortion. And I am a Democrat. Moreover, I know many Republicans who are pro-choice. So what?
I do want to refer you to the graph from the non-partisan Concord Coalition, which Walker tours with. It's a pretty harsh indictment of Republican spend-and-don't-tax. You can also see it in the film, "IOUSA", which is out now.
I recommend you, as well, to a few books:
"A Free Nation Deep in Debt" by MacDonald
and
"One Nation Under Debt" by Wright
Both brilliantly reviewed everywhere from the WSJ to the NY Review of Books. They really cover the symbiotic relationship between government debt and democracy. But that symbiosis depends on the debt being held by the citizens. Not debt sold to Saudi Arabia, Japan, and China.
As for abortion, I decry it, but if I were you I'd avoid referring to "souls." I'm a Christian, but using overheated religious imagery in a discussion of women's reproductive choice is frankly counterproductive. If you hate abortion, demand free birth control passed out in the schools. That's the only solution post Roe V. Wade; stare decisis means it's not being overturned. So if you're truly concerned (instead of just feeling unduly PIOUS) then do something constructive.

Aug. 28 2008 12:13 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Ben Thompson:
Can you say what you would cut from the government in order to make your proposed 15% flat tax work? Do you think that the government provides vital services at all?

Aug. 28 2008 12:11 PM
hjs from 11211

"limit for the size of government"
and limit the USA to 2nd world status. the reagan-bush ideology has failed and the 1950's are not going to be restored. the 21st century should be about science and progress, not hate and the dark ages

Aug. 28 2008 12:08 PM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Hi RosieNYC.
I "chipped in" over $30,000 last year alone in taxes. All for a middle class existence.
My tax rate would be 15%, for everyone. That would also be my limit for the size of government. I'm quite sure that would be sufficient.

Aug. 28 2008 12:01 PM
David! from NYC

Ben,

Thank you for your clarification.

Aug. 28 2008 11:58 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

David,
The we I refer to is all of us Americans.
For abortion, "we" all know it's nothing more than contraception after the fact. That's unconscionable.

Aug. 28 2008 11:50 AM
RosieNYC

Ben:
The reason why nobody is refuting your slogan is not because you are right. It is because when it comes to emotion-based thinking and complete lack of critical thinking, no matter how much time and effort you spend showing someone how reality and facts don't support what they want to believe, it doesn't matter. If by now you have not figured out that what you call "your word slogan" for Democrats is actually describing what the current republican administration has done: especially when it comes to government (check out the budgets for the last 8 years) ....

Regarding taxation, when you live in a society, there are certain things that need to be done and needs to be financed by all of us.As much as you do not like taxation, I would like to see how much you would be willing to freely chip in next time our country needs to pay for the next tank or plane or street sweeper or land for a new national park or basic services such as education, health, roads, etc.
Regarding abortion: You have no more right than I do to expect the government to impose on others what should be a personal choice/belief.

Aug. 28 2008 11:46 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Eva,
I'm with you on debt. Throw in the $50 odd trillion in liabilities that aren't funded down the road, and it's a massive problem.
I was disappointed when David Walker resigned. He's about the only sane voice in DC when it comes to spending.
As for what independents stand for, I for one see no need to have turned our backs on the founding fathers and the constitution, as written. It seemed to work pretty well when it was tried. They'd be aghast at endless wars, massive govenrment and the amount of regulation/ red tape we all have to deal with.

Aug. 28 2008 11:44 AM
Bill from manhattan

Yeah yeah yeah Clinton's words were so powerful last night that he must return home today and rest up he cannot be seen on TV with reaction shots during obamas speech that's real integrity and support of the candidate for you, uhm, I'm sorry, no, did I say integrity? I mean fowl skanky two faced lying hypocrisy. That's it.

Aug. 28 2008 11:35 AM
BL Producer from WNYC

A few comments have already been removed for violating the WNYC posting policy. As we continue this discussion, please keep your comments civil relevant to the discussion on the air, and brief. Thank you.

Aug. 28 2008 11:22 AM
mc from Brooklyn

Ben Thompson Part 2

The bell curve is also a hard one. By far the largest majority of people in this country are middle class. That means they will always carry the lion's share of the burden. We cannot raise taxes on the "rich" enough to carry it on them.

Dependancy, I think this is a red herring. As far as welfare goes, it is a sliver of the federal budget. The states are far more challenged by this. See what I said about health care. It affects what we pay for everything, including infrastructure.

Aug. 28 2008 11:20 AM
mc from Brooklyn

Ben Thompson:
You raise some good points. The government is large in terms of percentage of GNP. The biggest slice of the pie is taken by entitlements such as Social Security and veterans' benefits. Much of that cost is eaten up by health care costs. Until we are willing to be serious about reforming the way health care is delivered and paid for in this country we will be plagued by this.

As to abortion, this is a hard one because the interests of the unborn baby are pitted against that of the mother. I have had an unwanted pregnancy. I was spared the decision to abort because I had an early miscarriage. But I think we need to be careful about dictating to women what the state of their bodies will be.

Aug. 28 2008 11:18 AM
hjs from 11211

Thompson
maybe u could enlighten us to what "independents" stand for these days

Aug. 28 2008 11:18 AM
eva

mc,
I'll drink to you as well!
ben,
still waiting for answers to the questions posed to you...
BORED:
how right you are to say that embarrassed Repubs are now calling themselves independents. I thought it was embarrassing enough to be a Democrat, but the Bush admin proves how much worse it would be to be a Republican.

Aug. 28 2008 11:17 AM
David! from NYC

Mr. Thompson, please accept my apology if I'm misunderstanding, but I see some disconnects in your posts.

First, you have stated that you're an Independent, yet many of your comments reflect the rhetoric of the GOP. Also, you used the pronoun "we" in your explanation about taxation. Who is the "we" to whom you refer?

Second, I see a big disconnect between the desire for less government and the desire for government intrusion into people's lives as they make a deeply personal, legal decision to carry pregnancy to term or to choose to have an abortion.

Yes, I know, moral decisions are complex. Life's decisions are complex. That's why short answers, like 6-word or 4-word summations, don't do them justice.

Aug. 28 2008 11:16 AM
mc from Brooklyn

chris o #68 and eva #72,
Cool. We will lift cool ones tonight.

Aug. 28 2008 11:13 AM
eva

#72,
Ben Thompson,
as long as you're talking about graphs, let me suggest you take a look at the graph that shows our federal deficit beginning with the founding fathers and continuing to the present - it may surprise you. The issue is not taxation and the size of government. The issue is DEBT. The ISSUE is whether you are making a contract with the American people to pay for what government spends.
In the last seven years, the Bush administration has obliterated this contract, which explains our present $9.5 trillion deficit, with most of that owned by foreign countries.
THAT is more worrisome than your concern about dependency, because that foreign owned debt DEFINES dependency.
If you can't grasp that, maybe you should go and talk to David M Walker, the former comptroller of the US. He is a conservative who leads a non-partisan effort to get Americans to recognize what a hole we're in.

Aug. 28 2008 11:13 AM
mc from Brooklyn

harmon michaels:

1. Working in the trenches with Carolyn Maloney to help sick workers from the 9-11 disaster obtain better health coverage.

2. Giving an amazing speech in Beijing during a worldwide gathering of women.

3. Coming up with a plan for access to health care, while flawed, comes closer than either nominee to solving the problems.

I'm voting for Obama, by the way.

Aug. 28 2008 11:05 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Government is at historic highs in terms of how much of GDP it consumes, yet to hear the Dems, it's nowhere near big enough. Universal this, comprehensive that. That's what I mean when I say the Dems are the party of government, though Bush and the neo-cons are sure giving them a run for their money.
Abortion: 1 million souls a year gone, 35% of them black, by the way. Not a word about this from the Dems, unless it's trying to twist catholic teaching into saying this is somehow ok, a la Pelosi.
Taxation: There will always be taxation, we understand that. But if you can visualize a bell curve, that middle part (the middle class) is who is always going to pay the freight. And those are the people who don't use welfare, medicaid, social security, etc, which leads me to...
Dependency. The helping hand theory had been tried for 40 plus years. How many trillions have been spent trying to eradicate poverty? Yet it persists. That is dependency, and the Dems are quite comfortable with that.

Aug. 28 2008 11:04 AM
eva

Ben Thompson,
I and several others have provided you with some answers - and some questions. I look forward to your answers.
hjs,
thanks for the definition of what the Dems stand for. That spoke volumes.
mc,
thanks to you, I WILL lift a glass tonight.
Salud,
eva

Aug. 28 2008 11:04 AM
David! from NYC

mc--it was the answer to the poster who couldn't recall the name of the host of "Family Feud", who was known for kissing everyone.

Aug. 28 2008 11:01 AM
hjs from 11211

no one believes in abortion, it's a medical procedure. would anyone say I believe in appendicitis, sounds silly right??
my 2 cents:
Government - katrina
Taxation - war without end, I-35W Mississippi River bridge failing down
Dependency - corporate welfare, bridges to no where
gop wants government to fail so government can be sold to the highest bidder.

Aug. 28 2008 11:01 AM
BORED

Republicans are so ashamed of being republican thwey claim to be independent to sound cool. The problem they have is that the points they make or still failed republican thinking. When you have nothing to offer you attack.

Aug. 28 2008 11:00 AM
mc from Brooklyn

David!

Enlighten me. Who is Richard Dawson? Green Party?

Aug. 28 2008 10:59 AM
mc from Brooklyn

We should raise a glass (or do whatever you do to celebrate) tonight. There is a confluence of significant dates. 100 years ago in Denver the Dem Party refused to condemn lynching. LBJ is 100 years old. MLK's landmark speech was 45 years ago today. Women's suffrage reached a significant anniversary also, maybe someone can help me with the number of years. And tonight we will hear the first black major party presidential nominee accept his nomination.

I think it's a big deal.

Aug. 28 2008 10:58 AM
mc from Brooklyn

Hi Ben Thompson:
I will not even try to speak for the Dem party because they do not speak for me. However, I would like to take on your buzz words with some of my own.

Government: If allowed it may be a better distributer of essential services e.g. police protection, fire protection, health care (the VA is very effective at delivering urgent care at low cost)

Abortion: Access to family planning services including abortion. We cannot know all of the reasons a woman might want an abortion. Government may be better off steering clear.

Taxation: The principal way that government funds the services it delivers. I would be open to an alternative.

Dependancy: Not sure what you mean by this. If everyone has an equal shot on a level playing field this should not be a large problem.

Could you give us some buzz words for the Republicans?

Aug. 28 2008 10:55 AM
hjs from 11211

"yes i am" 56

invade- To enter by force in order to conquer or pillage

no one is talking about invading pakistan,

Aug. 28 2008 10:53 AM
Scott Smith from Manhattan

Two questions for Dr. Rice. 1) In Afghanistan/Pakistan, what steps would win over the tribes in northern Pakistan to support us? 2) How would you rate the relative contributions of killing today's active terrorists, like al Qaeda, vs. providing a tangible demonstration to the residents of the Arab world, whose loyalties to the West or al Qaeda are up for grabs, of what western style democracy can do for them as we are trying to do in Iraq?

Aug. 28 2008 10:52 AM
Believer from nyc

i wish fellow christians would talk about the fact that the republican party is a party of FAKE christians! jesus washed the feet of the less fortunate, not lined the pocket of the most well off. they focus on abortion, yet people like mccain have withdrawn from the sacrament of marriage! i agree w/ obama, christianity is more than just being against abortion. it is about caring for the least of us, feeding the least of us, loving all of us. i'm voting for the only true person of faith in this election - OBAMA.

Aug. 28 2008 10:51 AM
seth from Long Island

RC #49 - Ground Rules for Criticizing McCain

BROKAW RULES
Tom Brokaw has established ground rules for attacking John McCain
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/210890.php

Aug. 28 2008 10:51 AM
hjs from 11211


dems = human rights, education, aid to those in need, global cooperation

Aug. 28 2008 10:50 AM
harmon michaels from jersey city, nj

to mr. thompson:
independent or not, you play the same game conservatives play. your point presumably is that dems/liberals don't even know what they stand for. consider what cons claim to stand for and what they've actually done in the last 14 years. why not go find a site where conservatives congregate and ask them this questions?

Aug. 28 2008 10:50 AM
Yes I Am from Manhattan

Well Sen. Obama's 'foreign policy expert' is advocating invading Pakistan to 'go after' B in Laden.

Barack Hussein Obama says invading the sovereign country, Iraq, was a huge mistake.

His 'foreign policy expert' is advocating invading Pakistan.

How's that moral equivalence for you?

Aug. 28 2008 10:49 AM
RosieNYC

I'd rather take someone with an experience issue but smart enough to know who to listen to, and with enough intelligence to be able to analyze the arguments and to make a decision than someone whose role in the presidency has been nothing more than a front to shield the ones that have been actually running the show for the last few years.

Aug. 28 2008 10:44 AM
David! from NYC

PART 2

Taxation: Benjamin Franklin is the one credited with the line about the certainty of death and taxes. George H.W. Bush learned the hard way that sometimes taxes are necessary. The Democratic Party platform supports services that improve the quality of life in this nation. Those services must be paid for. If that means taxes, then okay. Are you able to offer a different, viable solution?

Dependency: I'm afraid to offer you a fair response, I need clarification. Dependent upon what? Or whom?

Aug. 28 2008 10:44 AM
David! from NYC

Mr. Thompson, with respect I cannot and do not speak for the Democratic Party; therefore, there will be some Democrats who disagree with this. Nevertheless, you have asked for a response. With courtesy, I offer the following:

Government: Our nation is a republic, and government "of the people..." is a fundamental, foundational building block of this land. Government was established by our Constitution. Government is not the panacea for all of society's problems, nor is it the cause of all the problems. Unlike the GOP, which loves to bash government while simultaneousy building bigger agencies, the Democratic Party recognizes government as one avenue for improvement.

Abortion: The Democratic Party's platform supports upholding the decision of the US Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade. That decision, a watershed in American jurisprudence, gives Americans the opportunity to make informed, difficult decisions whether to carry a pregnancy to term or end it. As a political party, the Democrats' stand is that it will not encroach on a deeply personal decision. (To do so...would that not to build an intrusive government that you seem to disdain)

Aug. 28 2008 10:44 AM
harmon michaels from jersey city, nj

i'm sure clarence page is a nice guy, but he managed to say absolutely nothing of interest for nearly 40 minutes. that's almost impressive in a weird way.
where's matt taibbi or ANYBODY with some kind of a perspective other than the most boring and obvious one?

Aug. 28 2008 10:43 AM
eva

Ben Thompson,
Hey, guess what? The founding fathers? They taxed the population. Taxation was part of the whole argument between Hamilton and Jefferson. So, yeah, taxation is necessary, it's part of our history, and both parties do it.
What's MORE important is FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY. And we haven't seen that from the GOP, starting with Reagan, whose supply-side economics (GHW Bush rightly called it voodoo economics) really got our debt rolling.
How, Mr. Thompson, are we going to pay down the $9.5 trillion deficit that the Bush admin has left us WITHOUT taxation? Are we to win the lottery? There IS NO $9.5 trillion lottery. If we owned all of Iraq, it wouldn't pay off our debt (in fact, it would probably just build on our debt.)
As for abortion, as everyone knows, I'm a Democrat and could care less about abortion rights. As for dependency, the GOP owns that, with all its FOREIGN DEBT OWNED BY CHINA! And yes, we'll need a strong government to rescue what's left of this economy after 7 years of Bush.
CONGRATULATIONS!

Aug. 28 2008 10:42 AM
RC

I agree with the comments of Pat Buchanan on MSNBC who is amazed at the lack of crticism towards John McCain. Rush Limbaugh and the rightwing have been far more vicious towards McCain than any of the Democratic speakers.

The speakers that precede Obama needed to make McCain so unacceptable. They needed to tee him up as the worst thing in the world. And, then Obama comes in as the shinning knight and says why "he is just like you" and why does he should be president.

He guaranteed that next week there will not be one nice thing said about Obama next week. No one will say he is a good man. They will make a future with Barack Obama out to be earth when the machines take over in Terminator, or Mad Max.

Aug. 28 2008 10:42 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Still waiting for a succint description of what Democrats stand for. Lots of effort trying to define the Republicans, though.
(As noted yesterday, I'm an independent.)

Aug. 28 2008 10:40 AM
NYC listner from nyc

Democrats = Government?
have you been paying attention to the rapid expansion of government under REPUBLICANS?! look at government spending (debt spending) in the last 8 years?

Taxation?
we will see inflation based on the economics of the last 8 years and YES inflation is a hidden tax!!

here's my republican list

Republicans = BIG government, lower living standards, poor infrastructure, government waste, decreased civil liberties, elitism

Aug. 28 2008 10:37 AM
RosieNYC

THANK YOU, caller!

About time the term "bi-racial", "of mixed ancestry" enter the American vocabulary! It is the 21st century and people of different ethnicities have been mating and having children in this country for a looooong tiime therefore it is time we acknowledge that. If anything, I feel that calling someone only by one race it is an attempt to pigeon-hole someone which is at the core of this racism so ever present in our country.

And no, it is not "tradition". It is ignorance and it is not letting go of what keeps racism alive: us versus them mentality.

Aug. 28 2008 10:37 AM
seth from Long Island

The best running mate for John McCain is Rudy Giuliani. They complement each other perfectly.

Giuliani has 9/11 Tourette's Syndrome and McCain has POW Tourette's Syndrome.

McCain/Giuliani also offers better joke potential for Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher, Jay Leno, and David Letterman than McCain/Romney, McCain/Pawlenty, or McCain/Lieberman.

Aug. 28 2008 10:36 AM
Rob from Bronx

Since you are speculating about McCain VP, I think that you have the wrong Whitman, look to your neighboring state. McCain will pick a woman to try to rub salt in the wound, try to pick off the disaffected Hillary voters and put NJ in play.

Aug. 28 2008 10:35 AM
eva

why do the conservatives care what Karl Rove says? He's built them up only to ruin them.
BORED is totally right.
Bill was totally right last night.
The Bush admin is the apex of what's become of the GOP. It's a double tragedy, because it's ruined them, and it's killing the rest of the country, regardless of affiliation.
Was that "republican" caller whose wife can't warm up to voting to Obama for real? Is the guy now saying Biden has no foreign policy experience for real?

Aug. 28 2008 10:35 AM
hjs from 11211

david!
i've heard that also (first to run in two different parties)

Aug. 28 2008 10:34 AM
Daniel from Manhattan

I'm tired of the press taking up the straw man of the GOP and calling Obama a "celebrity." It isn't the Democrats who have elected B-List hollywood actors time and time again based on their celebrity. Give me a Constitutional law professor whose oratory has lit up the country's imagination over a man playing the role of president, or a beer drinking buddy, any day.

Aug. 28 2008 10:34 AM
Jenn G. from Manhattan

#33 Kristin Anderson:

Not every woman lives a lifestyle where the need for the right to choose is their singular defining issue.

Aug. 28 2008 10:34 AM
David! from NYC

hjs (or anyone), IF Leiberman is McCain's vp, would he not be the first in American history to be the second on the ticket in two different parties? I recall from my US History classes that in the early days of our republic, the VP was the runner-up in the national election; but since candidates/parties have been selecting vp's, I can't think of anyone who's held it in more than one party.

Aug. 28 2008 10:32 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

hjs: All I'm trying to do is see if anyone disputes my description of what Democrats stand for. It's becoming apparent that no does.
I'm also learning, to my surprise, that some people (Susan) have ESP.

Aug. 28 2008 10:31 AM
eva

we can only pray that McCain picks Lieberman
but I doubt it

Aug. 28 2008 10:31 AM
harmon michaels from jersey city, nj

there is nothing funnier to me than hillary clinton supporters like the fellow who phoned in and cited obama's lack of experience as his reason for not supporting obama.
other than riding into the senate on her husband's coat-tails, screwing up our last chance at healthcare and casting the wrong vote on the iraq resolution what has she done? really? wake up.
and why more people don't point out that john mccain's longest stretch as a supposed maverick came after losing the nomination to bush. then he petulantly voted against his own party whenever he could. once jim jeffords bolted form the party, mccain's little personal revolt ended. what a joke he is. and what a joke it is that such a phony gets a free ride in the media. has anybody ever counted the amount of times "mr. maverick" has brought up his viet nam experience without prompting? yuck.

Aug. 28 2008 10:30 AM
chris o from new york city

it is up to the media whether McCain steps on Obama's night. So far, it is working since you are now talking about it.

Aug. 28 2008 10:30 AM
Kristin Anderson from Brooklyn, NY

I am struggling with the women and 'supposed' democrats that are pulling support from the democratic party and voting for John McCain because Hillary is not on the ticket. As a woman and a feminist, I am deeply conflicted and perplexed.
How can these folks support a republican ticket that will be a anti-choice, pro-life agenda, that will be appointing the next supreme courts justices? Or support a republican ticket that supports continuing war?
Are they aware of the problems that may come of this?!?!

Aug. 28 2008 10:29 AM
seth from Long Island

Brian,
Don't waste time talking about the sincerity of Michelle Obama crying or whether Obama committed a mistake by appearing on stage last night. This is trivial fluff teritory better left to cable news talking heads.

Aug. 28 2008 10:28 AM
eva

[21] BORED
August 28, 2008 - 10:20AM
Republicans can call names and make other personal attacks but it doesn't hide the fact that the Bush Administration was thir ideology manifested which is why the cant seperate themselves from him.

Who could say it better?

Aug. 28 2008 10:28 AM
hjs from 11211

leiberman's true colors are showing...
he will turn off the last southern whites who were going to show up on election day.
I thank him for running, it's only fair he was one factor in gore's loss.

Aug. 28 2008 10:27 AM
betty from NYC

I noticed the kiss on the mouth as well. i also noticed the face and arched eyebrow on Michelle Obama's face. Still not happy?
The Clintons have redeemed themselves with their party and with the American people. They are our elder statesmen. Can't say that about many in the democratic party leadership.

Aug. 28 2008 10:25 AM
kevin from nyc

why are we talking about the clintons AGAIN!! no wonder people seem to think Obama has no substantive policy, even good media like WNYC like to talk about the celebrity of Hillary and Bill.

TALK ABOUT THE STORIES PEOPLE SHARED!!! TALK ABOUT BIDEN's LIFE STORY! TALK ABOUT KERRY'S STATEMENT ABOUT PATRIOTISM!!

Aug. 28 2008 10:24 AM
anonyme from manhattan

To the Republican caller: I am not totally sold on Barack, but I wasn't totally sold on Bill Clinton, either - both great orators and really cocky- and look what Bill Clinton was able to do - I can't see why McCain the Bushist, misogynist and hothead.

Aug. 28 2008 10:24 AM
Clark Starr from Maplewood

The caller from Brooklyn who says he and his wife are voting for McCain has said nothing about issues. He is poster child for the inanity of the American electorate. This guy would, apparently, rather ignore policy stances and base his vote upon some set of nebulous, un-quantifiable criteria. This is what depresses me the most about the US these days.

Aug. 28 2008 10:23 AM
Randy Paul from Jackson Heights, NY

Rudy Giuliani's comments about Obama's comments about Iran are an absolute lie.

Aug. 28 2008 10:23 AM
Susan from Kingston, New York

hjs: From growing up in Greenwich, Connecticut, then living in Brooklyn, New York for more than forty years! That's how I can identify with which the voice that Mr. Thompson speaks. Self-righteous, self-centered and frankly naive and uninterested in how the rest of the world gets by.

Aug. 28 2008 10:22 AM
hjs from 11211

Thompson
are you supporting the incompetence of the last 8 years in exchange for your tax cuts?

Aug. 28 2008 10:22 AM
jane from hudson valley, NY

I agree with Chris O and Jordan. The speeches were worth hurrying home for! Everyone kisses..I think the build-up this week has been wonderful.
Hillary and Bill were just grand.
Thank you WNYC! But go on to the great idea of inviting everyone to the last night tonight!

Aug. 28 2008 10:21 AM
BORED

Republicans can call names and make other personal attacks but it doesn't hide the fact that the Bush Administration was thir ideology manifested which is why the cant seperate themselves from him.

Aug. 28 2008 10:20 AM
Yes I Am from Manhattan

The Dem's current policy shift in the attempt to repaint Iraq/Afghanistan as a successful Obaman judgement call apart from Senator McCain's is astounding.

The only people that will fall into that trap are the people currently predisposed to blindly believe anything their cult of personality leader says.

If I may quote Mr. Shakespeare:
"O wonder!
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is!
O brave new world
That hath such people in't!"

Aug. 28 2008 10:20 AM
kevin from nyc

kissing smacks of elitism? what?! are you mad?! i would wager there are more people in the US who come from 'kissing' traditions.

plus, i thought obama was "cool" and "aloof". soo "cool" and "aloof" he hugs and kisses. riiiiight!

let's forget kissing and just get back to the fact that the bush administration is agreeing to a time line. a massive FLIP FLOP as they underline Obama's policy from the start.

Aug. 28 2008 10:19 AM
BORED

Bill Clinton was right in calling out not only the failure of Bush but the failure of the Republican ideology.Look at their convention platform, Drilling and Abortion. Look at Mccains positions on his website. They Have no ideas.

Aug. 28 2008 10:17 AM
TW from manhattan

In '68 and '72 conventions were divided over the issue of the war in Vietnam so it took time and effort to bring people around to the nominee, but since Hillary and Barrack are so close in their ideologies why is it so tough to come together? Could it be race?

Aug. 28 2008 10:17 AM
hjs from 11211

susan
how do u know he is white??

Aug. 28 2008 10:17 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Good morning, Susan. I guess I could add "race obsessed" and make it a 6 word definition.
Again, please show me where I'm wrong in my original 4 word definition. I know what I stand for and can easily define it.

Aug. 28 2008 10:16 AM
Marc from Brooklyn

Harry Reid was great talking about wars for oil and Bush delegating his job to Cheney.

Aug. 28 2008 10:15 AM
Susan from Kingston, New York

Mr. Thompson:

Perhaps your white male, self-righteous words don't dignify a reply from us. We are not so easily defined.

Aug. 28 2008 10:13 AM
Voter from Brooklyn

And so begins Day Four of WNYC Clinton Convention Coverage. Thanks WNYC!

Aug. 28 2008 10:12 AM
Robert from NYC

Oh god Clarence Page, how much blander can it get. Truly the center of center. Oh well, to each his/her own.

Aug. 28 2008 10:11 AM
chris o from new york city

It seems improper to talk about McCain's running mate. Wait until tomorrow please.

Aug. 28 2008 10:07 AM
David! from NYC

Derek--Richard Dawson

Aug. 28 2008 10:06 AM
chris o from new york city

Kissing smacks of elitism, you say (what!?). Not kissing smacks of elitism, too. But that is Obama's dillemma. He is damned if he does, and damned if he does not. If he visits the troops in the hospital, he is exploiting them for his campaign. If he does not visit them, he is putting them down...

If he was white, the kisses would not even be mentioned.

Aug. 28 2008 10:05 AM
Robert from NYC

Bravo Dennis Kucinich I'm writing in your name at the ballot box--even though that's not what you asked us to do. I'd be a hypocrite if I did otherwise.
And great coverage on Democracy Now folks. Two hours during the conventions and you'll get all the stuff you don't get anywhere else. Bravi Amy a crew!
Bye, just stopped by for a second to see what's here. May be back for Kucinich.

Aug. 28 2008 10:04 AM
Derek from Brooklyn

Obama really needs to stop kissing women on the cheek. He almost hit Biden's wife's mouth. Not good.

It

1. Smacks of Elitism
2. Isn't very hygenic
3. Is sorta slezy/gross

Remember that Family Feud host that kissed all the women on the mouth? Can't remember his name...

Aug. 28 2008 10:01 AM
Ben Thompson from NYC area

Still waiting for someone to refute the my word slogan for the Democrat party:
Government
Abortion
Taxation
Dependency

Got a couple of odd replies yesterday trying to define what conservatives believe, but nothing contradicting my definition of the Democrats.

Aug. 28 2008 09:46 AM
chris o from new york city

I also watched the festivities last night and had a great time. Bill Clinton is the Usain Bolt of politics, leaving his rivals far behind and doing it with uncanny style. Joe Biden was great as well. I always liked him and he gets a bum rap for talking too much. He is down to earth and blunt. And Eva, Obama's cameo appearance should remove any worries of high expectations. In just a few words, you could see the Master of these Ceremonies is ready to close out the show in a proper manner.

Aug. 28 2008 09:30 AM
eva

This is the first night I tuned in and all three major speakers - Bill, Kerry, Biden - were GREAT. Still, it was nerve-wracking when Obama stepped out onto the stage. How do you follow Biden and Bill?
I have a lot of confidence in Obama's leadership ability. But the polls seem freaky. All I could think when he kissed Mrs. Biden was: oh, god, are white Americans going to hold it against him that he kissed her? Was it a millimeter too close to her mouth? Aaargh.
Having Bill offer a total vote of confidence in Obama was, I suspect, really emotional for a lot of us. To me, it felt like having an old friend come through for you when you needed it. It was just so beautifully done. And, also, until he spoke, no one was really sure what the hell he was going to say.

Aug. 28 2008 02:15 AM
Jordan McLean from Manhattan

Bill Clinton's speech last night should remove any obstacles Hillary Clinton supporters might still have in the way of voting for Obama. Please, if you still can't or won't vote for Obama, go listen again!

Aug. 28 2008 01:35 AM

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