Flashpoint: A Tale of Two Police Forces

How New York City and Chicago fight gun violence, a two city call-in from WNYC and WBEZ

Friday, April 12, 2013

chicago police line (b_2/flickr)

(Update: Partial Transcript Below)

How are New York and Chicago trying to stop gun deaths? WNYC Brian Lehrer Show and WBEZ Chicago's Morning Shift co-host a special call-in - live in Chicago and New York - to discuss how the NYPD and CPD are trying to curb violence, and how communities are reacting to different policing strategies.

Guests include:

Callers in both cities, how should your communities be policed? Chicagoans, are the police failing to bring down crime? New Yorkers, are the police keeping crime low but at too high a price in civil liberties? Is there a unified approach that could serve both cities' needs?

New Yorkers, call 212-433-9692 | Chicagoans, call 312-923-9239


Highlights and Partial Transcript


On Policing

Yale criminologist Tracey Meares explains why Chicago has not adopted tactics similar to New York City's controversial "stop and frisk."

Because it’s geographically smaller, New York can try to make the claim that the stop, question, and frisk strategy is a good one to actually tamp down crime. I don’t think there are any empirics that show that that’s true, and it’s also the case that that kind of interaction with people leads to mistrust of the police, which in the long run is not gonna help keep crime down. It does mean in Chicago, though, that the kinds of strategies that Superintendent McCarthy is engaging in, very targeted and focused strategies, are the kinds of things you have to do. Because you’re not going to actually encounter the same amount of people in the same kind of space that you will in a city like New York.

Caller Preston, in Chicago, the son of a former beat cop, explains the nostalgia that many feel for that time.

There was a time when beat cops were really, really common in Chicago. Police officers were able to work in the same neighborhoods for years. You build a relationship, you knew who lived in the neighborhood, you knew what car didn’t belong in the neighborhood. If a crime was committed, you probably have a pretty good idea [who did it]. …That relationship is gone in Chicago right now. …Because of that, you’ve got people who can do things in sort of relative anonymity.

Caller Ralph from the Bronx, who grew up in public housing, agrees, and points out that in New York, officers usually don’t live in the neighborhoods they police.

The only thing that’s gonna change this problem is if the cops are familiar with community and the community is familiar with the police officers. …The cops that are coming in and out of the community are going home to different areas that have nothing to do with public housing.

In the meantime, there continues to be a lack of respect and trust between communities and police. WNYC reporter Kathleen Horan says that parents who have lost children to gun violence in New York feel that policing could improve.

[Parents] do wish their child was more valued or more respected by police when they were alive, and that there could be more collaboration. There’s this kind of talk in many neighborhoods about community policing, about collaborative law enforcement.


On the Role of Gangs in Gun Violence

Tracy Meares says that the gang structure in Chicago may be one reason why the murder rate is higher in Chicago than in New York.

It is true that for a long time, the gangs in Chicago were larger, more organized, more concentrated--and now, the gangs in Chicago are breaking up in particular ways, and when networks of people who are involved in violence break up, that causes more violence. Since the gangs in New York were never as big or as concentrated as the ones in Chicago, that particular problem is not present in New York.

But WBEZ reporter Natalie Moore points out that the term “gang” is usually inaccurate.

’Gang’ can be an easy short-cut in describing something, because people may have a mental picture in their head. [People think] ‘Oh, these are people who are deserving to die, they’re decided to join an organization, so, you know, that’s what it is.’ And in actuality, we’re seeing more street crews, neighborhood formations, people on their blocks getting together. And I think it’s important to note, because ‘gang’ is such a sweeping term. And yeah, Chicago does have gangs, but we have a lot of splintered organizations. The gangs today are nothing the way they were 20 years ago or even 30 years ago when it really was at its peak.


On the Culture of Violence

WBEZ's Natalie Moore says that in poor black communities, a desire to seem masculine and strong can cause a relatively minor altercation to quickly escalate into murder.

It’s hurt feelings, it can be over a girlfriend, it could be someone who just got out of prison is back on the block, it could be honking your horn too loudly on a block that you’re not familiar with, and then someone comes out, and then it gets into an altercation. …You can point to a couple of things: lack of mental health services, I think the stress of living under poverty takes its toll on some people. …and going back to masculinity, if you have access to a gun and you want to protect yourself, prove that you’re hard, not be punked, that’s how these little altercations blow up into major gun violence and murder.

At the same time, as a caller Gahan from New York's East Village says, it can be hard to tell which comes first: the desire to seem macho and tough, or the desire to protect oneself.

You’re talking about a chicken and an egg problem: ‘They’re coming after me; I’d better be armed.’ I don’t know how to end that.

Malek from Market Park in Chicago adds:

If you pull that gun out of the equation, [a dispute] becomes a fist fight, it becomes a rock fight, it might become a stabbing. But if you see video surveillance footage of a lot of the way these people shoot each other, they’re hundreds of feet away from each other because they’re terrified. …If you remove guns out of the equation, I think that’s where these [murder rates] will come down.

An NYC/Chicago Policing Primer


→ ReadWhy Chicago Bleeds (NYDN Opinion) | Why is Chicago Struggling with Gun Violence? New York May Have Answers (CSMonitor) | Tale of Two Cities (NBC) | 5 Must-Know Facts About Chicago's Gun Violence (Colorlines)


→ Interactive: A Stop and Frisk Timeline (WNYC Newsroom)


I believed we could drive down crime even lower, while at the same time improving police-community relations. Ray Kelly believed that too; that's why I hired him as Police Commissioner. Today, New York is the safest big city in America - by far. Boston and Chicago are nice towns, but you are about twice as likely to be murdered there as you are in New York City. -- New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg

→ Watch: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Talks about Crime and Policing at a Brownsville Church (June 2012) [Transcript]

Comments [53]


I also think the gang issue is a little misguided. Why? 20 to 40 years ago the homicide rates in both cities were fairly close. The change started in 1992 as both cities murder rates dropped (even today Chicago still has a much lower rate than it did back then). NYC got more gentrified - crime dropped even faster. Chicago hasn't been as gentrified.

Also in terms of gangs her philosophy is disjointed. As she said - disorganized gangs tend to be more violent. So now that gangs are more unorganized in Chicago - that wouldn't explain why it's safer now than when the gangs were more deeply entrenched.

Organized crime is another way to look at it... the real "godfather" Lucky Luciano once said that he didn't like visiting Chicago because it was too out of control (meaning "hits" didn't need to be approved in Chicago)... which makes sense when you realize Al Capone left NY because he was in too much trouble - but went on to rule Chicago.

Apr. 12 2013 08:31 PM

Your guest is very wrong... geographically NYC is 300 square miles and Chicago is about 240 square miles. So I doubt her gun confiscations is correct either.

Apr. 12 2013 08:10 PM

"If you get the lethal technology out of the hands of kids, then its going to make a difference - and that's absolutely right"

And that's never going to happen.

As long as "Nebraska et al", wants to hold on to their guns and bibles, violence will always be in fashion. Gun ownership goes hand in hand with the aggressive male mentality rampant throughout history, especially in America. Urban violence is the inevitable by-product of a society that loves war and its guns (Korean, Nuclear Arms Race, Vietnam War, Grenada, Lebanon, Persian Gulf War, Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Drone War). Stop kidding yourself. Expect your adversary to try and arm himself and not simply let you win. Until we remove guns from our entire culture, their will always be violence and suicide rates that soar.

Apr. 12 2013 01:45 PM
The Truth from Becky

Fuva...of course you are right, don't drop out of the discussion please, your level of input is needed. I agree with your last comment.

Apr. 12 2013 11:47 AM
fuva from harlemworld

...Someone has a grudge and nothing substantive to say...

Apr. 12 2013 11:29 AM
fuva from harlemworld

...Someone has a grudge and nothing substantive to say...

Apr. 12 2013 11:29 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Sheldon, yes. And those limited opportunities had myriad ripple effects -- socioeconomic, psychological, aspirational, cultural, etc. These are not understood, because passing a law against centuries of terror automatically wipes out its effects, right? This absolutely contradicts the current regard for therapy and intervention (PTSD, etc.)

Yes, not an excuse, but an explanation, that must be the basis for any effective address. Socializing this understanding is fundamental to "taking personal responsibility" and for solutioning in the ways outlined in my first post.

Thanks for the exchange.

Apr. 12 2013 11:26 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Sheldon, yes. And those limited opportunities had myriad ripple effects -- socioeconomic, psychological, aspirational, cultural, etc. These are not understood, because passing a law against centuries of terror automatically wipes out its effects, right? This absolutely contradicts the current regard for therapy and intervention (PTSD, etc.)

Yes, not an excuse, but an explanation, that must be the basis for any effective address. Socializing this understanding is fundamental to "taking personal responsibility" and for solutioning in the ways outlined in my first post.

Thanks for the exchange.

Apr. 12 2013 11:26 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Becky, it's not about "retitling" poverty; it's about understanding that, here, it's about more than just poverty. jgarbuz -- presumably a white man -- was apparently poor too, with a critically different experience. You don't understand that, you don't begin to stop the "vicious cycle", the "feedback loop", etc.

I'm tempted to stop participating in the same fruitless discussion here...

Apr. 12 2013 11:14 AM

FANTASTIC segment!!

Thank you, Brian!!

Apr. 12 2013 11:09 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

Well Fuva, as much as hate to agree with John, and I was going to admonish for not focusing real solutions , with his abortion quip.

I do agree with you, we have to address the root causes (for urban violence,) that goes all the way back to slavery - not an excuse, but an explanation.

Today - a movie opens, celebrating a black man getting finally getting a chance to play baseball, yes baseball in America, less than 60 years ago.

If some people - regardless of how talented, couldn't get to play integrated baseball until a few decades ago, just think about their limited opportunities acquiring a decent education, connections, or capital - things that are crucial to lift oneself out of poverty.

I believe in taking personal responsibility, regardless of what hands you are dealt in life. However, that is easier said than done when you start from the bottom.

Apr. 12 2013 11:06 AM
The Truth from Becky

Fuva, I do see your comment however, you offer no solution that I can subscribe to, I still disagree. Poverty, no matter what we title it, is not the catalyst for teen violence.

Apr. 12 2013 11:06 AM
james from nyc

Policing is a very lucrative business.

It provides many americans with good salaries and benefits.

But for this business to work, you need criminals.

We have over 2 million criminals in jail, but like any growth business policing needs more criminals all the time.

So departments creat quotas and quotas creat friction between the police and the public and in term it creates more criminals. That's a good working business as far as the police is concerned.

your show seems to be looking at policing as a public good service, it's not, its a business that creates jobs and opportunites for people in that business.

Apr. 12 2013 11:03 AM
jgarbuz from Queens


I grew up in the housing projects with gangs swirling all around me. I never got a gun, never committed a crime, and never got into trouble with the police except one time when hanging out with a bunch of kids later in my teens, who were starting to get frisky on the streets, and ended up getting slightly manhandled by a cop. The problem is when kids get together on the streets. Officer Krumpke, we will never solve all the world's socioeconomic problems. We can control the streets and housing projects if we work with police to do so.

Apr. 12 2013 11:02 AM
The Truth from Becky

A teenage girl under 18 of ANY race, CANNOT raise a boy to be a productive man nor a girl to be a confident, secure woman.

Their Future, stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty, drug addiction, illiteracy, child abuse, making them, unemployable, insecure, non compassionate human beings easy targets to join a gang.

Apr. 12 2013 11:02 AM
oscar from ny

The two major gang members I know in the city of Chicago and New York are Mr Bloomberg and Mr Emmanuel

Apr. 12 2013 10:59 AM
MichaelB from Morningside Heights

There are many causes, many branches to this problem (or should we say "these problems"?)

It's culture, guns, poverty, the celebration in media of gansta behavior ... all in a continuous, closed-feedback loop, an echo chamber that often reinforces and perpetuates the worst.

Children grow up with a lack of values -- they are not properly socialized to live in a civil, non-violent society, meaning they don't have the skills to cope with the smallest disappointments or bumps in life. And they are angry -- an anger often fueled by opportunistic politicians, who aren't doing the youngsters any good by fanning those flames.

I am astounded to see young black & Hispanic males lined up around the block at sneaker stores in Harlem (on 125th St) or recently near Grand Central (on 42nd St) early in the morning. I am guessing that a sneaker maker is hawking the latest $300 (or is it $900 or more now?) offering to young men. If poverty is so deep, how can they afford to buy these?

When I was growing up in Brooklyn, my immigrant parents scrimped and saved -- I can't tell you how many times my mom sewed patches on the knees of my jeans. We not only lived within our means, we lived BELOW our means, so my folks could save some money for a rainy day. noNowadays? Got to be brand new and the latest bling & swag.

Think this difference in culture and values don't matter?

Apr. 12 2013 10:59 AM
fuva from harlemworld


Apr. 12 2013 10:56 AM
Steven from Queens NY

Yes I would like to agree with Marcus in NY about the police acts like they are in an occupied country. I lived in 75th prescient most of my young life. When the Whites moved out to the suburbs, the banks move out the supermarket moved out and even the police move to places like SI and LI, the 75th became an occupied neighborhood. We lived with gun violence in the 75th since the early 70s. When the gun violence move into “good neighborhoods” there is an immediate need to do something, why didn’t the law try to fix the problem back in those days? Take a look at this neighborhood then and now. If this area was gentrified then the bank, supermarket and better policing would be the norm. Now take a look at Clinton Hill area, I went to Pratt in the 70s and that area was as tough as East NY. Now the neighborhood is mostly Whites and I can guarantee that gun crimes are very low. I am not saying gentrification is the answer but it can help if they can develop these areas with people that currently live there now and not just build expensive high rise they can’t afford. BTW the way they don’t want to put cops back on the beat because they are afraid there would be more cop killing. Cops driving around in a car is not a good way of policing.

Apr. 12 2013 10:56 AM
paul from bk ny

I live in prospect lefferts/crown heights this neighborhood was UNLIVEABLE 7-8 years ago, gun shots 5 nights a week, murders on my block monthly, now it is so safe you can walk home from the train at 3 am and not worry much at all (although 2 people were shot in the head in my corner 2 weeks ago it is not like it used to be) and families and businesses can now contemplate moving here. STOP and FRISK WORKS for EVERYONE. I have been stopped and frisked, I'm white, nothing to hide, nothing to worry about.
And I see parents (black) sorry to say this... who beat the crap out of their children here daily, in my building, on my block, as they take them to school, it is so sad. If your 6 year-old is crying, threatening to punch them in the mouth *and then doing it in public) is probably not the best way to get the to stop. I see this every week too and at 7 am it ruins my whole day, but I'm white, so I have no right to speak up..., right?

Apr. 12 2013 10:55 AM
MikeInBrklyn from Clinton Hill

One of the biggest problem with policing in NYC is that it lacks a wholesome approach. Call the police to address noise or other minor nuisance crimes that erode quality of life in city, and the police's respond makes it clear that it priority is much more about hard crime. It is not uncommon for precinct to indicate that it lacks man power to send one car to enforce a noise complaint, but magically can find 20 cars to respond to reports of a shooting.

The uneven quality of policy in the US probably contributes more to the entrench levels of hard crimes in city. Petty crimes go unchecked, sending a mixed message to the population, but the police then come down like a ton of of bricks to prevent the gates from bursting and flooding neighborhoods with hard crimes.

Maybe if they policed with the intent to enforce lawfulness at all levels, abiding lawfully would become a social norm deeply ingrained in the conscience of the society.

Apr. 12 2013 10:55 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Beacy, see my comment about the necessity but insufficiency of a focus on poverty here.

Apr. 12 2013 10:55 AM
Bill from New Rochelle

We also have seen our gun crimes in southern Westchester County, NY, increase from 1 or 2 a decade to one or two a year. I had a guy jump out of a car and train a gun on me becaue he cut me off in traffic and I blew my horn.

But I have a simple solution: Real Gun Owner responsibility.

Every gun used in a gun crime ought be traced back to the last legal owner; (it came from somewhere) and that owner ought be arrested as a co-conspirator to the gun crime; be it simple armed assault, or mass murder.

Let that gun owner go through the arrest proceedure, and sometimes extradition; to appear before a judge in a felony trial, to prove his innocence.
If the gun was stolen, as so many claim, the police report of that theft should serve to prove the last legal gun owner not guilty.
If the same gun owner is arrested 7 or 8 times for 'stolen guns used in a gun crime' we see a pattern arise which may make the gun owner subject to civil suit by victims, or their families.

Fear of extradition, arrest, and conviction will serve to dry up the gun supply at the source; the supplier of first resort.

This won't happen overnight, will a decade will show that only real professional criminals, and not casual chldren, will still have acces to handguns.

Apr. 12 2013 10:53 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Yes, we must better understand the ripple effects of poverty. But really, it's more than poverty. We need to replace that word with something like "socioeconmic exclusion"...

Apr. 12 2013 10:51 AM
opinion from BK

One of the best strategies for lowering violent crime is Bloomberg's giving out free birth control/morning after pills to teens. Teen pregnancy continues the cycle of poverty, poverty leads to violence. A lot of these kids are being raised by their grandparents and great-grandparents, which means they're really being raised by the streets. Schools and police will make no difference when dealing with that equation. Most of these kids are doomed from the start, no hope, no future. If teens get an education instead of getting pregnant, then there can be some fundamental changes.

Apr. 12 2013 10:51 AM
Susan from North Salem, NY

YES, jgarbuz, exactly my point: keep GUNS out of the hands of MEN. Yes women murder and when they do, they tend to use knives and go after a singular target. When was the last time you heard of a woman going on a public rampage with a gun? Do you ever hear of a mass stabbing spree? (Yes, the one in China, I know, but nobody died and that was a man). Do we have automatic knives that spray hundreds of smaller knives? Gun control is the issue on the table, not sword control. A gun is and always has been a phallic symbol. This is not a difficult issue to get to the (cough) root of.

Apr. 12 2013 10:48 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Sheldon calls broken families "root causes"; he doesn't consider the CAUSE of broken famuilies because he's been conditioned to regard these broken families as a natural state.

This conflation of causes and effects will get us nowhere.

Apr. 12 2013 10:48 AM
brooklynmom78 from Park Slope, Brooklyn

I can't help remembering an incident that happened in North Hollywood before I left LA. Two bank robbers were walking around with AK47s and the entire neighborhood was in lockdown because even the police were outgunned (I was driving through in my car). OUt of curiosity, I looked up the rate of gun ownership of different countries, and was able to ascertain that the highest rates of gun ownership occurred in highly industrialized countries, and that ironically, the poorest countries had the lowest rates of gun ownership. These same poor countries had the highest rates of violent crime (of all types, including non gun crimes). Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, sweden, France, and Saudi Arabia are all in the top 15, most of which have very low rates of gun crime. I think problems with gun crime in this country is cultural.

Apr. 12 2013 10:48 AM
Marco from New York

Urban hip-hop gangsta culture has been a disaster, no question about it.

Apr. 12 2013 10:47 AM
The Truth from Becky

Yes Fuva, I believe poverty affects parenting but not in the way that causes children to grow up to be violent teens. Even if you don't have a morsel to put in your mouth, you can learn how to behave, to respect yourself and others...this is NOT the stone ages, there are services to assist unemployed and under employed persons...the first line influence over children is the parents. It is the parent who is responsible for the behaviour of the children bottom line. Not everyone should be a parent.

Apr. 12 2013 10:46 AM
fuva from harlemworld

So, 'what IS it about black people'...?
('Irresponsible' parents? Why?
'Single family homes'? Why?
'Macho culture'? Why?)
Be clear: Brian and Tony have ducked this question. Why? Continuing to do so will disqualify them for productive moderation of this critical discourse. We'll see...

Apr. 12 2013 10:45 AM
Caitlin from Brooklyn

The root of so many of these problems is education. If people have access to better educational opportunities, they won't feel as disenfranchised, in turn relying on violence to solve problems. If you're worried about single-parent homes, by which you all really mean single mothers, make sure you educate women; if women have future prospects, they will do more to avoid getting pregnant at a young age.

Apr. 12 2013 10:43 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Susan

No, women, due to their smaller size and generally being weaker, have traditionally not used knives, swords, or guns to murder. Usually they have used poison, or in many cases used OTHER men to do it for them. It's not that women are any less violent or murderous than men, but only their preferred tactics are necessarily different.

Apr. 12 2013 10:42 AM
Susan from North Salem, NY

Very simple solution: get guns out of the hands of MEN and keep them out. For the most, women do not go on shooting sprees, women do not shoot each other because they feel they were disrespected, women do not kill each other to preserve their egos. I'm very sorry if you don't like this but the evidence backs it up: KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF MEN.

Apr. 12 2013 10:38 AM
Sheldon from Sheldon

John from of office, I agree with your thesis of the root causes.

You put young men from broken families, without father-figures, getting their masculine guidance on music and culture that celebrates the gun, you are going to have a lot of shootings.

Apr. 12 2013 10:37 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

No matter how "good" or "bad" the parenting is or was, kids on the street are highly affected by peer pressures, and being impressionable and having to prove themselves to their peers, can easily be sucked up into anti-social activities and actual crime itself. There has to be a HEALTHY but reasonable fear of the police. There has to be a fear of "getting caught" and the negative consequences. Without it, kids run wild. They're kids.

Apr. 12 2013 10:33 AM
Tom from Brooklyn

Is there any consideration of employing the strategy of "crime forecasting," and "predictive policing?" I recently saw a BBC documentary on a trial program of the strategy using the data of LA police, collected over the past 80 years, apparently it proved successful.

Apr. 12 2013 10:32 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Yeah, Jim, this is not an encouraging development...

Apr. 12 2013 10:32 AM

Fuva, Becky and john are in agreement? A first. BL producer please take note -- perhaps you should run a few segments about gang culture that are not focused on guns or police.

Apr. 12 2013 10:30 AM
fuva from harlemworld

So, Becky, poverty doesn't affect parenting?

Apr. 12 2013 10:29 AM
The Truth from Becky

Caller? "I am a white Puerto Rican"?? opinion is we need to attack the problem BEFORE the teen hits the streets..hold some of these parents accountable for their spawn! Start penalizing them and they will start monitoring their children. Kids have to taught certain things when they are YOUNG and impressionable...this has NOTHING to do with poverty, it has EVERYTHING to do with PARENTING!!

Apr. 12 2013 10:20 AM
MichaelB from Morningside Heights

As distasteful or dispiriting as Stop & Frisk is, over time, our society can correct it, adjust it, refine it and society will recover and heal.

The same cannot be said for the permanent damage done by the extreme, unacceptable violence -- the means young people and gangs have used for several decades. Those levels of violence become self-perpetuating and death is permanent. No recovery, no healing.

And the effect on entire neighborhoods and the cities overall is devastating. For generations.

So maybe society has to swallow the bitter medicine -- and abuses -- of Stop & Frisk, until we get to a point where it becomes more of a priority than saving hundreds of lives.

Apr. 12 2013 10:19 AM
fuva from harlemworld

A problem cannot be solved if it is not understood.
Understanding the forces -- current and historical -- driving the problem will
make community members less susceptible to them,
make cops/media/etc. less inclined to exacerbate the problem by dehumanizing the community,
make the community and cops/media/etc. more cooperative in addressing the problem.
This informational component is dismissed because maybe it seems obvious, maybe it's too un-sexy and probably because we're afraid to confront elephants in the room via comprehensive discourse.
But if the current approaches continue to ignore fundamental causes -- even when moderated by the current liberal media types -- we'll continue to get nowhere.
(I'm SURE this discussion will ignore this aspect, as usual.)

Apr. 12 2013 10:19 AM
Sandra H Gleich

I think every gun manufactured in the US or imported legally into the US should be test fired and the identifying marks on bullets stored in a file accessible to every law enforcement agency. Gun manufacturers should bear the financial burden for this. Every crime using bullets should make the last registered owner liable criminally and civilly. I think guns reported as "stolen" should be included because gun owners should be held completely responsible for secure storage.

Apr. 12 2013 10:15 AM
Orin from Queens

The role of immigrants in the lower crime in New york is under-appreciated. Chicago only has 18% immigrants, while 2/3rds of New Yorkers are first and second generation immigrants, greater that all the other big cities in the US that also all have higher crime rates. Despite the racist right wing propaganda to the contrary, the facts are that communities of immigrants have significantly lower crime rates than non-immigrant communities in the USA, for a variety of reasons.

Apr. 12 2013 10:15 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Teenagers should have a healthy fear and respect of the police, as well as their parents. I too was frisked and angered by police as a teen when I was running around with a bunch of kids and hanging around on corners. And I too was angered and humiliated. Well, suck it up. Teens are wolves. They are not mentally mature and highly impressionable and can get sucked up into bad things very quickly if they don't have a healthy fear of the consequences.

Apr. 12 2013 10:14 AM
Steve from Brooklyn

Cities seem to have a wide mandate for regulation behavior in their borders. In NYC we have the local bans on smoking, parking and noise regulations, etc. Why can't cities pass their own gun laws for similar reasons? Would that not circumvent some of the cultural divides between rural and urban populations with respect to the 2nd amendment? Does it come down to the DC failed handgun ban? Why not try it again?

Apr. 12 2013 10:14 AM
John from Staten Island

I was born in Chicago at mid-century and have lived in New York since 1974. As a teenager in 1965 I was stopped and frisked by a Chicago policeman. It was humiliating. The result is that I have never since trusted a policeman. I can't serve on juries because when lawyers ask me whether I would credit an officer's testimony, I have to reply: Not in in the slightest. If a policeman tells me the sun will rise tomorrow, I'll say: Oh, really?

Apr. 12 2013 10:10 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

The simple fact, as urbanization world wide rapidly proceeds, and not just in the US, more people are living VERTICALLY, that is on top of each other in tall buildings. So policing has to become more vertical as well. Police should patrol buildings and not just streets outside. One of the first things Giuliani did to bring down crime, was to assault the drug dealers in the Housing Projects. Also, juveniles have no right under the 2nd Amendment to carry guns, hence frisking suspicious teenagers for guns should be fine.

Apr. 12 2013 10:06 AM
Robert from NYC

Yes the police in NYC are almost as corrupt as the police in Chicago!

Apr. 12 2013 10:03 AM
john from office

Elephant in the room. Both cities have an underclass that refuses to parent their children, educate their children and their children are having children. All the police are are those who are tasked with dealing with the end result of the above.

So, wnyc spends time and energy speaking about policing, rather than those being policed. Thank god for Roe v. Wade.

Apr. 12 2013 07:53 AM
Lisa from Forest Hills, NY

I am all for the restriction of guns, registering gun owners and making the high capacity magazines extremely limited in distribution. My father was a conscientious objector in Vietnam, while my mother was home in the US giving birth to me. Much of his philosophy on guns is my own. However, I believe the problem is clouded. The incidents in CO and Sandy Hook are about guns, yes. But more about madness. The Brooklyn man who went on a stabbing spree, would not have been stopped by any gun legislation. Why is the country not more focused on this?

Apr. 11 2013 10:08 AM
MWnyc from Astoria

So the e-mail promotional blurb for this segment began like this:

"Last year, 500 people were killed in Chicago and 414 were murdered in New York City."

I just checked the population figures (est.) for 2012: New York - 8.4 million; Chicago - 2.8 million.

So, on a per capita basis, the murder rate in Chicago is roughly triple that of New York City. Yikes!

Apr. 09 2013 08:22 PM

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