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Guns at Home and Around the World

Wednesday, April 03, 2013

guns (barjack/flickr)

Connecticut now has a strong gun control bill to match New York's. Paul Barrett, editor at Bloomberg and author of Glock: The Rise of America's Gun, joins us as we compare and discuss the NRA's school safety proposal and other gun news, including yesterday's U.N. arms trade treaty that Republican senators oppose.

 

Guests:

Paul Barrett

Comments [34]

amalgam from NYC by day, NJ by night

@ jgarbuz -

The conditions in the United States and Israel are _completely_ different.

I think it's very inaccurate to claim that "America today is a country more concerned about living in large houses than in protecting their children." That is not the case.

Finally, where is the observable, peer-reviewed evidence supporting your assertion that "[a]dding two armed guards" to every school will necessarily "protect our children"? Many school districts around the country are extremely successful in maintaining school security, both with or without guns, and the terms of security will continue to be determined by those school districts.

Apr. 03 2013 01:55 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Illfg

If America today is a country more concerned about living in large houses than in protecting their children, it will be a society that soon will have neither. Neither big houses nor small children.
We should protect our children no less than we expect banks to defend our safety deposit boxes in banks. At least!

Apr. 03 2013 12:06 PM

@jarbuzz - um irrelevant argument. different country. Japan doesnt even have gun violence and they have the triad gangs. wake me up when you are willing to talk about solutions in AMERICA.

Apr. 03 2013 12:00 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

Illfg

I lived in Israel, in a tiny apartment, not in a spacious suburban house, and paid more in taxes than do most American suburbanites, but I was comforted knowing that there was always a secret armed guard, trained in the IDF, around my little 5 year old. But then, in Israel, children come first. Nobody there would ever utter the words "It's too expensive." And the top tax rate in Israel JUST came down recently to a mere 49%. When I lived there in the '80s, almost 60% of my gross income went to taxes. But to defend children, there is nothing more important. Not houses. Not suburbia. Not lattes.

Apr. 03 2013 11:57 AM

@jgarbuz - you dont get it do you? not everyone is comfortable having guns in schools. that may be your solution. 1 solution. but the PEOPLE make decisions, not you. I personally don't want my child in school with guards carrying guns walking around. to me there is no common sense in this. we already have police. they can pay more attention to schools and less to giving us tickets and locking up non violent drug offenders.

Apr. 03 2013 11:55 AM

mental illness and guns don't mix. you cant legislate against mental illness. logically, all you can do is make it harder for the mental ill to get guns. which means then making it harder for anyone to get a gun. how many more dead will convince you all that the RIGHT TO LIFE, is more important than the RIGHT TO CARRY SOMETHING THAT TAKES A LIFE?

Apr. 03 2013 11:51 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Illfg

Adding two armed guards would cost the same as adding two extra teachers. We pay for teachers, don't we? Maybe we need fewer Dem-Fem administrators and more well-trained and well paid armed guards? But only if we are serious about saving children, which Fem_Dems really aren't. They just like shedding those liberal phony crocodile tears, while drinking their lattes.

Apr. 03 2013 11:50 AM

@jgarbuz - yeah until that well trained armed guard has a bad day and loses it. i live by newark airport, where the people protecting us from terrorists getting on planes are low wage workers who dont care and just recently let a FAA official with a bomb on him board a plane. tell em again your plan to pay guards to stand around our schools with guns and how well that would work?

Apr. 03 2013 11:46 AM
Restore Sanity from Westchester

@ jgarbuz: Good points - except that they don't jibe with the facts. Both D.A.s in Texas were experienced and trained in the use of their weapons, and the 2nd one was well aware he was a potential target - he was leading the investigation of his colleague's shooting. Also, neither was particularly overweight, though I'm not sure why that makes a difference one way or the other -- one of the benefits of a firearm is that it levels the playing field between a physically strong assailant and a weaker victim.

Apr. 03 2013 11:46 AM

@jgarbuz - no, i dont want guns near my daughter. difference. with all the bitchin people do about how over taxed we are, where do we get the money to pay for armed guards in EVERY SCHOOL? why dont we charge gun owners a tax to pay for armed guards?

Apr. 03 2013 11:44 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Illfg

Don't send your kids to school. Home-school them and build walls around your house the way people do in the Middle East. In the Arab ME, everyone who owns a home has a wall around it and owns an AK-47 as well.
Guns don't kill people. Crazy people do. In well trained hands, guns protect people.

Apr. 03 2013 11:43 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Illfg does not want to pay the taxes to pay well-trained armed guards to protect our children, but is willing to pay to confiscate arms from the populace at large.

Apr. 03 2013 11:39 AM

@jgarbuzz- "CHILDREN COME FIRST" - yeah until we talk gun control

Apr. 03 2013 11:39 AM

@jgarvbuzz - "We demand armed guards in banks, and in gov't offices"

we do? i dont. who does? maybe we should tax gun owners to come up with the money? sound fair? by the way, i dont want my daughter in school with guns present. ever.

Apr. 03 2013 11:37 AM

@Calls- It is you sir that must read a book. try history first. Amendments ARENT written in stone. we made an amendment that BANNED alcohol and then repealed it. We can repeal ANY amendment. None of them are safe from that. Yes, including Civil rights. "Rights" are only as safe as the public allows them to be. An uneducated public will not value progress. "The history of all weapons control is the history of racial and religious oppression." - thats hysterical. I know, taking your stupid guns is what Hitler did. But 20 dead children in a school, thats an isolated incident, until it happens again and again. This idea that the second amendment is the only thing "protecting" people from tyranny is beyond ridiculous. The checks and balances of our political process prevents tyranny and oppression. not your precious point, shoot, kill machines. Stop crying about tyranny and oppression. the only people oppressed in america since its inception has been Slaves (not allowed to have guns which of course PREVENTED an uprising), women, gays, and other minorities. Maybe allowing guns is what has kept "undesirables" down? now it makes sense why you wouldn't want your precious right to own a musket to go away.

Apr. 03 2013 11:35 AM
amalgam from NYC by day, NJ by night

@ Calls'em -

That's why your fear-based views about the "imposition of rules from outsiders," in this case, the UN, fall into the category of baseless, unsubstantiated conspiracy theory held by a significant minority of Americans, most often coming from right wing ideology.

First of all, the UN treaty you're referring to is called the "Arms Trade Treaty," not the Small Arms Treaty, which makes it seem like small arms - which are included in the treaty - are the focus rather than tanks, RPGs, etc. The treaty is up to the US to administer and promulgated solely to restrict terrorist and illegal arm sales.

Or as the rightist news outlet Fox News states:

"It covers battle tanks, armored combat vehicles, large-caliber artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships, missiles and missile launchers, and small arms and light weapons...The treaty will not control the domestic use of weapons in any country, but it will require countries that ratify it to establish national regulations to control the transfer of conventional arms and components and to regulate arms brokers.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/02/senators-vow-to-oppose-un-arms-trade-treaty/#ixzz2PPlLi5GR

Apr. 03 2013 11:31 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Illfg

Who wrote:

" thats hysterical. we are broke, in debt and no one wants to raise taxes. where do we get the money for this? In NJ, some towns, 50% of property taxes ALREADY go to the local school systems."

So when it comes down to defending our money, or our children, we will defend our money and to hell with the children! We demand armed guards in banks, and in gov't offices, but not in the very place where our most precious and important assets are sitting defenseless all day, our CHILDREN???? If you can't afford the taxes, sell your home and go live in the housing projects! CHILDREN COME FIRST UBER ALLES! Protecting children is the most important function of society! Everything else can be sacrificed, but not our children!

Apr. 03 2013 11:31 AM
Calls'em from Today, in NYC.

@ Illfg - Read a book or two - As goes the 2nd - so goes all our other rights. If Amendments aren't written in stone then Blacks, gays & women have no rights - so "assume the position." The 2nd Amendment wasn't even questioned as an inalienable right until the Blacks started rioting in the 1960s. The history of all weapons control is the history of racial and religious oppression. BTW - If you and other people who are against civil rights get together and pass a new Amendment to get rid of the 2nd Amend, you can have your way with us. Lol.

Apr. 03 2013 11:26 AM
Truth & Beauty from Brooklyn

Ed from Larchmont: We all know that you are Catholic, but we were hoping you could stay on topic - in this case, we are discussing gun control, NOT abortion. Stay awake, please!

Apr. 03 2013 11:25 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Restore Sanity

If you are going to own a gun, you had better make sure you have been trained to use it. Same with a car. I don't know if these overweight DA's had had any recent gun training, or perhaps thought they were immune just because they were prosecutors :) If anything,if I were a DA prosecutor, knowing that there will always be some that I prosecuted who will be coming after me, I'd make sure not only to have a gun, but to definitely make sure I continue to get training in how to use it in a timely manner.

Apr. 03 2013 11:24 AM

Restore Sanity from Westchester - exactly.. too many vigilante movies from the 70's and 80's have tainted the public's mind. guns make it super easy to kill someone, even with them owning guns.

Apr. 03 2013 11:24 AM
Truth & Beauty from Brooklyn

I believe in gun ownership: 1 man, 1 musket

I also believe in the right to arm bears.

Tell your guest to check out this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

This gun problem has been going on for FAR too long, and the NRA is responsible for putting pressure on our legislators, who seem to forget that they are elected to do the will of their constituents, NOT that of lobbyists. Nevertheless, there is no reason anyone can give for NOT having enacted serious gun legislation as a result of the 1966 (!!!) shooting, yet here we are, nearly 50 years later, still playing legislative games with this. WHY?!?

Apr. 03 2013 11:23 AM
RUCB_Alum from Central New Jersey

Americans are too often confused about precisely what comes out of the barrel of a gun. Some think it is liberty, others think it is justice. It is neither. Bullets come out the barrel of a gun and when these bullets hit flesh and bone, they break spilling blood all over the place.

Stop romanticising gun-ownership. If the 'keep and bear' language of the Second Amendment were followed literally, we'd all be packing. Which I suppose would lead to a rebirth in politeness...after the initial tidal wave of blood, of course.

Apr. 03 2013 11:23 AM

jgarbuz - " Those who are SERIOUS about protecting children would support well-trained armed guards, who could work undercover and such. "

thats hysterical. we are broke, in debt and no one wants to raise taxes. where do we get the money for this? In NJ, some towns, 50% of property taxes ALREADY go to the local school systems.

Maybe the NRA should pay for it?

Apr. 03 2013 11:21 AM
Restore Sanity from Westchester

The two district attorneys killed down in Texas were "good guys with guns" -- didn't work so well for them when a bad guy with an illegal gun showed up at their doors.

Apr. 03 2013 11:20 AM

Calls Em - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

only Jamaica, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Swaziland, Brazil, South Africa, Colombia, Mexico, Panama are worse than us, Congrats!

By the way Japan, a 1st world country and until recently second biggest economy basically has no gun violence. they have freedom and capitalism.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Stop being a paranoid gun nut.

Apr. 03 2013 11:17 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Laws mean NOTHING to outlaws. You can pass all the domestic laws, and international treaties your heart desires, and they are utterly worthless, because outlaws could care less. In fact drug laws and restrictive arms laws only make the smuggling of drugs and arms more lucrative. As long as there is a demand for guns and drugs, both will keep flowing through the hands of outlaws.

Apr. 03 2013 11:14 AM

Amendments arent written in stone. We have made amendments and then repealed them. The 2nd amendment is antiquated. It was written at a time when we were barely a country, states didnt trust one another and we lacked an army and other policing authorities. it's 2013. We have all the law enforcement we need. Had guns been hard to get before the civil war, we may have even had one. We have the right to LIFE< LIBERTY and the pursuit of HAPPINESS. your "right" to have a gun, doesnt trump the vast majority of americans to have their "right" to LIFE. Besides, the 2nd amendment referred to creating a well regulated militia which then used muskets, not automatic and semi automatic assault weapons.

Apr. 03 2013 11:12 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

The Dems and Fems are not for saving children. They are for aborting children. And for their own political aggrandizement and power, of course.I'm not a big supporter of the NRA, but when they do make sense, they should be heard out. Those who are SERIOUS about protecting children would support well-trained armed guards, who could work undercover and such. The NRA has made a very common sense and serious proposal as to how to protect children in schools, whereas the Dems and Fems are only interested in passing more and more laws that will never be enforced, while crying their usual crocodile tears on behalf of "saving the children." The last thing they really care about is children.

Apr. 03 2013 11:08 AM
Calls'em from Today, in NYC.

Brian - Passing more gun control is like taking cars away from sober drivers to try and stop drunk driving. Gun violence in the US is down to record lows and despite the fact that Americans own at least 300,000,000 guns, America is one of the less violent countries in the world when it comes to overall crime. Let's stop going after the civil rights of law abiding citizens and start going after violent criminals and let's end liberal revolving door justice and keep the bad guys in jail. Let's also help the mentally ill and stop causing more mentally ill by over medicating our children to be zombies.

Apr. 03 2013 11:08 AM
Amy from Manhattan

The NRA's Wayne LaPierre says the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Aside from the fact that this isn't true (unarmed people have talked shooters into putting down their guns in some cases), Mr. LaPierre seems to oppose all measures that have been proposed to keep "bad guys" from getting guns in the 1st place.

Apr. 03 2013 11:03 AM
Calls'em from Today, in NYC

Most Americans support basic human rights like the right to be able to defend one's self against violent criminal attack and political tyranny. They are afraid that 0bama will once again do an end run around the US Constitution using the UN Treaty on Small Arms as an excuse to impose more "gun control" on the law abiding citizens of America. If ratified by the Senate, the Prez could reduce our civil rights as codified in the Bill of Rights & the 2nd Amendment. Most Americans view the UN with disdain as it is made up of corrupt dictatorships, quasi-dictatorships and oppressive clerical states. There is no place in our way of life for the imposition of rules from outsiders.

Apr. 03 2013 10:53 AM

Ed- one doesnt have anything to do with the other. Abortion is a much different thing than 20 dead kindergarteners. Gun rights advocates are soo illogical they cant have a normal conversation on the subject. we have a violent gun culture here in the US. The numbers of deaths dont lie. Guns unlike cars (the favorite argument of gun advocates) are not made for ANYTHING OTHER THAN SHOOTING SOMETHING. They are meant to KILL. Mental illness and guns do not mix. The largest segment of gun deaths are related to suicide. That's gun owners or their family killing themselves. Maybe periodic mental illness screening of gun owners is the way to go. And stop quoting the 2nd amendment. It relates to the people organizing a militia. In 2013, with all the police, state police, national guard, coast guard, army, navy air force and marines, we don't need average citizens running around playing army.

Apr. 03 2013 10:42 AM
Ed from Larchmont

4,000 plus human being are killed in abortion every day in the U.S., do you think this violence will not surface from time to time in massacres with guns? The attempts at gun restrictions won't solve this problem at all, even if they do get enacted.

Apr. 03 2013 05:48 AM

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