Streams

Resistance Formula

Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Can organic formula make your children crave sweets when they get older? The ingredients in organic may make you want to think twice about that high price. Nina Planck, author of the upcoming, Real Food for Mother and Baby, and New York University professor of food studies Marion Nestle weigh in.

Guests:

Marion Nestle and Nina Planck

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Comments [54]

hs

steve -- just cut (WAAAAY) back on the quantity if you wanna not be fat -- or sick in your last decades...

May. 20 2008 05:26 PM
chestinee from Midtown

superf88 the Weston price info (liver and raw milk) is based on the fascinating and scientific life's work of Weston Price, who found and studied 14 remote cultures where there were neither crime nor degenerative diseases, people were happy and perfectly made - he studied what they ate - the summarizing book is called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration and it is astounding. Copyright 1939. Another foundation guards his research results. It makes us look pretty inept as a "civilization," not nearly as smart as we think we are...

May. 20 2008 05:01 PM
Steve from New Haven CT

My wife breast fed. She didn't drink while pregnant with our 3 kids. We have no artificially sweetened drinks in the house. We drink lots of water. Nobody eats junk food except right after holloween. We eat diner together every night and try to stay active. WE ARE ALL FAT!!! I think it's because we are good cooks and like food. I'm thinking of writing a book titled The Lousy Tasting Food Diet Book. If your mother makes great birthday cakes and comfort food for those bleak New England homework filled winter evenings YOU ARE TOTALLY SCREWED. There are many roads that can lead to obesity that don't involve junk food, sugar and corporate greed. Prosperity is big factor. Our current government is fixing that problem. ENJOY LIFE!!

May. 20 2008 04:13 PM
Maxine from New Jersey

Some of us CAN'T breastfeed! Adoption, poor lactation, illness (read breast cancer!). What we want when we can't do it ourselves is the next VERY BEST thing that we can give a baby not judgement and scorn.

May. 20 2008 03:21 PM
chestinee from Midtown

I'm gladd, too, Bryony - it's pretty scary how polluted our food chain is, and how perverted by industry - we should should all research everything we eat or feed anybody, it is that bad.

May. 20 2008 02:57 PM
sds

David, Nicole & others, I suggest you compare enfamil w "parent's choice" by PBM Nutritionals of Georgia, VT (and house brand for various stores). 1/3 the price of enfamil -- ie $15 or $20 for 51 oz -- and also with lipids, dha, ara etc. (possibly from the exact same supplier). do your homework and save a couple hundred bucks a month if you are satisfied the products are the same -- as we did.

If Enfamil could offer any proof or any indication besides good ads that Enfamil was superior in some way of course I would never make this move.

May. 20 2008 12:35 PM
David! from NYC

#13--Nicole, my wife and I use Lipil, manufactured by Enfamil. We have been very pleased with it, and our baby has never rejected it.
We use the powder and reconstitute it with good ol' NYC tap water. 1. It's easier to store. 2. It's more economical. 3. The pre-mix stains.
Our only complaint was that when we were buying it in stores, it was often sold out. If you like (or more importantly, if your baby likes) Lipil, go to www.enfamil.com , and you can order it from the company. We have it set up on auto shipment, and the cost with shipping is slightly less than what we were paying in the stores.

Best to you and the little one!

May. 20 2008 12:20 PM
David! from NYC

#11---jjl, I'm with you on the Kosher for Passover Coca-Cola. This is one goyim who loves KFP Coke. It brings back good memories of childhood.

May. 20 2008 12:13 PM
David! from NYC

#13--Nicole, we use Lipil by Enfamil. We use the powder and mix it with good ol' NYC tap water. We have no complaints.

Actually, I take that back. When we were buying it from CVS, Duane Reade, etc., it was often sold out. We now get it directly from the company. You can set up an automatic delivery if you wish. The price with shipping is about the same as we were paying in the store. www.enfamil.com

All the best to you and the little one!

May. 20 2008 12:11 PM
Craig from Astoria

Thank you about the comment about the Writer in today's Times. I will Google that.

The author of the 10/17/06 Times article "Preschool Puberty and a Search for Causes" was DARSHAK M. SANGHAVI.

I just Googled him. Oh look – he's a Pediatric Cardiologist at the University of Massachusetts Medical School and Author with a ton of Google entries.

Looks like a fun read. So glad this subject peaked my interest.

May. 20 2008 11:45 AM
thatgirlinnewyork from manhattan

while it is illegal to offer the article as a reprint, i'll look to post a pdf of it via brian's blog. it's well worth reading, and quite discouraging that the issues therein are hardly resolved since its first appearance.

May. 20 2008 11:35 AM
adsf

ah, thank you sheryl. but in fairness the segment wasn't totally defined either -- started about babyfood and quickly turned into a backdoor, murky convo on "Organic."

May. 20 2008 11:28 AM
adsf

hjs-- yes but i do try. and i am much better than before (and more relaxed)

May. 20 2008 11:26 AM
hjs from 11211

i wonder how bad things will have to get before people wake up.

May. 20 2008 11:24 AM
sheryl from nyc

hmmmmmm why no mention of the writer of the NY TIMES article?????? Julia Moskin. And why invite Nina Planck to chatter endlessly on anything that is self promoting.....come on, there must be other more interesting guests on this subject, like maybe the author of the article?

May. 20 2008 11:23 AM
Craig from Astoria

Oh THANK YOU for the link.

I am very interested in this subject. I have the original article in a stack of newspapers. . .

Tried to talk about it once before on this show but I didn't get on.

I think the basic information that part of the liver's function is to convert cholesterol into other "sters" - i.e. testos-"ster"-ol and e-stro"-gen is key to understanding this very important bio chemistry.

I love The Science of The Times. . . I think I'll go out and get it right now.

May. 20 2008 11:22 AM
Amy from Manhattan

hjs, some babies are even born w/a few teeth. And for the rest, sugary formula (organic or not) starts the decay process as soon as the teeth come in!

And Jeremy, that's ridiculous. Organic cookies are worse for you than non-organic broccoli *because they're cookies*, not because they're organic. What's that saying about not comparing apples to oranges? You've taken it to the extreme. Plus, organic doesn't mean it can't have supplements, like vitamin D, which is also added to organic milk. If you want B vitamins in your bread, try whole-grain bread--white bread only need vitamins added because the refining process takes them out in the 1st place. But that's a completely separate issue from whether the bread's organic.

May. 20 2008 11:21 AM
thatgirlinnewyork from manhattan

if the link doesn't work, the nyt article is dated 10/17/06 with the headline: "Preschool Puberty and a Search for Causes"

May. 20 2008 11:14 AM
Gene

Newspapers, radio and TV run stories on China, Burma, Iraq, etc., AND run shoppers' tips and gossip columns. In media, and on WNYC, the weighty and the insubstantial are not mutually exclusive. (Although raising a generation of sugar-cravers is hardly insubstantial.)

Were I as ignorant and offended as many of these posters (this is unusual for WNYC's boards) I would have just changed the channel. If a segment doesn't interest me, I'll listen to a CD or other station. I won't caterwaul about it.

May. 20 2008 11:14 AM
hjs from 11211

adsf,
good point, but i bet there's a lot of judging parents at the playground

May. 20 2008 11:14 AM
Craig from Astoria

Oops – I had a typo.

In case you want to do this to someone's kid – The shampoo formula described in The New York Times was a combination of Tea Tree oil and Lavender.

Both of these ingredients can be obtained at an organic store near you – but I'm only joking. Don't try this at home – especially if you don't know what the combinations of ingredients are going to do.

It makes me wonder about the weird combinations of ingredients in cosmetics, food. I try to make my own meals from fresh veggies.

May. 20 2008 11:14 AM
thatgirlinnewyork from manhattan

craig & everyone--here's the link to the nyt article referenced by craig: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/science/17puberty.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=liver%20cholesterol%20hormones&st=cse&oref=slogin

May. 20 2008 11:12 AM
adsf

don't have a scientific study -- frankly it's based on the 100 or so moms that i've known for 10 yrs. ALL considered stopping or not being able to produce ENOUGH breast milk to be among the most saddest and disappointing moments of their lives.

That said, Ms. Planck is writing a book on baby formula and i'm guessing she has found or done the legwork.

On a personal note I believe that even a little breastmilk is vastly better than none at all. That said, being a parent very quickly taught me it's best not to judge other parents.

May. 20 2008 11:11 AM
Tony from Brooklyn

Thanks for your note adsf/29. If you could kindly post a link to the study or survey that says that 51% of mothers are incapable of nourishing their children adequately through lactation, I'd appreciate it. I've looked everywhere for it and haven't been able to find it.

May. 20 2008 11:06 AM
Craig from Astoria

Great to hear this on the show.

I love to learn about chemistry. The New York Times / Science of the Times had an article a year ago about how the Liver changes cholesterol into steroids such as testosterone and estrogen. Therefore, all organic fatty oils have potential hormonal effects. One example in the article was a shampoo that contained tea tree oil that caused a pre-pubescent boy to grow tits.

My doctor recently informed me that Soy has a detrimental effect on Thyroid function.

Last weekend I looked at possibly purchasing margarine instead of butter to save money. Looking at the labels, I found that almost all were made of soy. Only Fleishman's margarine was made of corn oil, and the price was comparable to that of butter.

So I didn't buy margarine.

May. 20 2008 11:04 AM
adsf

Tony -- lots of moms can't breastfeed Tony. Don't know the percentage but possibly most (at least not for a full year).

May. 20 2008 11:03 AM
adsf

hjs --

babies have teeth starting in around the third month inside the mom. they are covered by gums.

On that note toddlers have their adult teeth. also covered by gums.

May. 20 2008 11:01 AM
Tony from Brooklyn

Not to sound like some woman's place is in the kitchen/bordello Rush Limbaugh type, but whatever happened to breast feeding? When you source out essential parenting functions to nannies and international agribusiness conglomerates, you forfeit your license to be indignant when your kid is a fat pimply menstruating 7 year old in therapy. Unless you're a crack addict or medically unable to breast feed(duly noted Nicole/13), there are few legitimate reasons to not breast feed. Children are a sacrifice and when you try to limit that sacrifice so you can go back to work/shopping/on vacation...then you hurt the children.

May. 20 2008 11:01 AM
Gene

In discussing unhealthy "organic" products, don't forget RJR's American Spirit cigarettes ("100% additive-free natural tobacco"), which are heavily promoted in healthy and hip media outlets.

May. 20 2008 10:59 AM
hjs from 11211

steve,
people are starving in NYC, what have u done about that??

May. 20 2008 10:57 AM
caitlin masley from brooklyn

is there a list comparing all the different organic formulas

May. 20 2008 10:57 AM
Steve from Manhattan

People are starving in Burma, suffering from exposure in China, and being shot dead by our "administration" in Iraq ... and here's a segment on infant formula and other aspects of reproduction? How Park Slope mommy of you. Standards people, standards!

May. 20 2008 10:56 AM
hjs from 11211

babies come with teeth now?

May. 20 2008 10:55 AM
Robert from NYC

It's time to jump on the overpricing of organic foods. Here we're being sold organic baloney (yes like green baloney) and just being ripped off in many cases. It may be more costly to raise/produce but not as much as we're paying for it!!

May. 20 2008 10:54 AM
m from manhattan

Oh wake up out of your sugar induced fog and read the labels! Corporations are not looking out for you, but their bottom line.

May. 20 2008 10:54 AM
hjs from 11211

BORED or boring
when did caring about your kids become wacko

May. 20 2008 10:53 AM
annet b from Redding, CT

What about the impact of all this sugar on the baby's teeth?

May. 20 2008 10:52 AM
asb

jeremy/12 -- as you probably know a key problem is the FDA does not "do its work."

that of course gives organic (along with other premium food catagories -- even "Hallal") its market.

May. 20 2008 10:51 AM
World's Toughest Milkman from the_C_train

Is it possible that there are any GMOs in any of this formula?

May. 20 2008 10:51 AM
BORED

parents have gone wacko

May. 20 2008 10:51 AM
Jason from Brooklyn

The term "organic" has lost all of it meaning. So in making choices, people in general need to pay more attention to all of their purchases.

May. 20 2008 10:49 AM
Nicole from Forest Hills

Question - If a mother can not breast feed because of cancer or another health issue, which formula would you recommend?

May. 20 2008 10:48 AM
Jeremy Kareken from Sunnyside

Organic =snake oil. Some organic products taste better because of the breed of plant, but organic cookies are far worse for you than genetically modified, artificially fortified broccoli.

And if you start throwing out your non-organic bread, get ready for Pallagra. Get rid of that non-organic milk? Hello Rickets. Let the FDA do its work.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

May. 20 2008 10:48 AM
jjl

Sucrose is what makes Passover Coke so sublime! (Normal Coke is made with corn sugar/hfcs).

May. 20 2008 10:48 AM
Kevin from Charlotte, NC

Being a single man, I don't know much about the organic formula issue. However, having recently been on a healthy kick to lose weight, Organic does not necessarily mean healthy. Sometimes organic is "worse" for you that non-organic food. (Calories, Carbs, Fat Content, Sugar content, etc)

Organic does not necessarily equal healthy.

May. 20 2008 10:45 AM
David! from NYC

#3--Sue, thank you! My wife and I have a beautiful, healthy 8.5 month old girl. My wife nursed her for a time, but she stopped lactating. We use formula and Gerbers, and our daughter is great!

Will we make some mistakes? Yeah, we will. Will we do a lot of things right? Yeah, we will. Do we love our baby? Absolutely!

May. 20 2008 10:42 AM
Baby from Forest Hills

You are also not supposed to give soy milk or honey to infants!

May. 20 2008 10:27 AM
hjs from 11211

competition? of course it's a competition.
1 billion chinese and indian babies are coming to take over the playground while your kids will be playing videogames and getting fatter.

May. 20 2008 10:26 AM
superf88

Can your guests comment on baby formula made from whey and frozen liver shavings...

or raw milk?

http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html

May. 20 2008 10:25 AM
superf88

BTW folks -- take a guess where most of those ingredients in your baby formula come from??

If you are curious, call them and ask.

I did last month in the context of comparing house brand "Parent's Choice" of Vermont to the more famous brands "made" in Illinois, which cost 300 percent more per container.

Another scoop from superf88 to you, thanks to the BL Show.

May. 20 2008 10:21 AM
superf88

Now who says "Organic" is somehow supposed to be "good for you"?

Certainly not the FDA.

Horizon (biggest eastern distributor of organic milk) vanilla milk packs, for instance, have more sugar per ounce than Coca Cola.

No, organic just means that Similac called one 800 number instead of another for their 18 wheeler shipment of white powder...Santa's little helpers were not involved in creating that formula, unfortunately.

(In fact this industry is undergoing some exercised international takeover drama at the moment).

May. 20 2008 10:17 AM
Sue from North Salem

I nursed my kids for a little while then did formula. I fed them Gerber food and milk from the grocery store. They're both healthy, fit doing fine in school and eat a lot of veggies and fruits.

Bottom line, moms: there's a million ways to parent. Just do your best and don't worry, don't obsess. It's not a competition.

May. 20 2008 09:57 AM
RJ from NJ

unless there is a real need for formula, there are various ways to avoid. i bought up both my kids with out any processed food for the first 3 years. only home made food, buffalo's milk(highter fat content) lightly sweetened with sugar. and no Gerber or other ready made food. both my kids are healthy, eat a lot of veggies and fruits. of course it is a little more work, but since we choose to have fewer and fewer kids, it is well worth the time and effort. sugar is almost always better than high fructose corn syrup.

May. 20 2008 09:40 AM
Bryony from Scarsdale

Ahhh....more senseless blather to scare new mothers out of their wits. More guilt for not being pregnant "the right way". More fear of permanently damaging their baby by having a hospital birth. More shame if they have an epidural. More of don't do this, don't do that, don't eat this, don't drink that, don't disturb the precious baaaaaaaaaaaaaaby.

I am so glad I'm done having children. It seems every year the load of information to process becomes bigger and more threatening.

May. 20 2008 08:57 AM

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