Streams

Going to and Leaving the Catholic Church

Monday, March 18, 2013

The Vatican City (Jordi Corominas/flickr)

Catholics, call in and tell us about yesterday's services. Was there a message yesterday about Pope Francis? Has the new Pope brought you closer to the Church, or pushed you away? Call in to 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or leave a comment below.

Plus: Emma Gilbey Keller, columnist for the Guardian, discusses why she decided that once Pope Benedict XVI abruptly resigned last month, it had come time leave Catholicism behind in favor of the Episcopal Church.

 

Guests:

Emma Gilbey Keller

Comments [34]

Always an excellent question (or two) from Noach :-)

1-) I can only speak (without equivocation that is...) for Catholicism as that was the religion into which I was born.

Regarding William F. Buckley: The short answer is hell yes. Didn't he make a disparaging comment about Gore Vidal's sexual orientation?...Driven by religion I'm sure.

2- Levity can loosen the intellectual strings, so watching cats on Youtube probably has a some benefit so long as it's viewed in moderation. Moreover, The tenets of Catholicism reach beyond the time spent in Church. It permeates one's existence (if executed correctly) which is where the metastasis begins (in my humble opinion of course).

Before I make lots of enemies, I must state that I have no problem with someone else's religious affiliation. I just don't like religious dogma to be used as a justification or as evidence for the classical "I'm write and your wrong" type of argument.

Mar. 18 2013 10:28 PM
Sam from 10457

Benedict did not leave the Church, he made known that he would prefer to play a different role in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. What Emma did was leave the Church as a whole.It's a false comparison.The president can decide to leave the presidency but not give up being an American but that is not the same as leaving your citizenship for another one completely.

Citing gender issues, my guess would be the issues of women's ordination, contraception and abortion. I don't have time to discuss them all if one or more of these is true but in terms of ordination, I think most of us would feel cheated if on the last day (Fa/Mo)ther Joanne's mass was seen to be no mass at all because by the nature God made us, women were not made to be priestly just as men were not made to be the primary givers of physical life.You can look at the natural order and accept it because it's visible but because we cannot see the supernatural order we fight it as if it were common politic.

For abortion, no choice should ever result in the deliberate execution of an innocent person.

For contraceptive, it's a matter of self control because the conjugal embrace speaks a language that Christ spoke when He gavee himself completely to the Church. It is fraudulent to treat God's gift of fertility like a disease placing orgasm above the good of all.

I don't know if I hit key issues and if I did, I don't have time to get into much details but please ponder over this. If Christ founded a Chhurch and gave that Church His authority to speak for Him, would you prefer that Church conform to you(and your misunderstanding of her) or would you prefer to live up to the standard that the Bride has received from her divine groom?

Mar. 18 2013 07:01 PM
Noach (Independent) from Brooklyn

"This former altar boy and current agnostic thinks that church is NOT time well spent for those who are deep thinkers. Catholicism as an institution inhibits intellectual growth."

Regarding your first sentence:
1.) Did you mean time spent in _any_ house of worship, or only a Roman Catholic one, specifically?
2.) If the former, then it raises the question: What about watching sports, silly YouTube videos, etc.? Are you suggesting that a "deep thinker" should /only/ spend time in intellectual pursuits? Where would you draw the line?

Regarding the second sentence:

Do you think Catholicism inhibited the intellectual growth of, say, William F. Buckley? C.S. Lewis?

(For anyone who may not realize, I am not Catholic or even Christian but Jewish.)

Mar. 18 2013 02:33 PM
Noach (Independent) from Brooklyn

http://www.equaltimeforfreethought.org/2007/05/27/show-219-noam-chomsky-chomsky-on-humanism/
http://www.equaltimeforfreethought.org/2007/06/03/show-220-noam-chomsky-chomsky-on-humanism-ii/

"Bob from Brooklyn" and his fellow reflexively anti-religious posters would do well to listen to these interviews with Noam Chomsky. Chomsky, while no more a believer than Bob, Dboy, et al, nonetheless takes a far more intelligent, reasonable, nuanced view toward religion. And he certainly does not insult and demonize the many people-- /billions/ worldwide-- who affiliate themselves with a religion the way our esteemed posters do.

Mar. 18 2013 02:04 PM
Ed from Larchmont

I missed the start, I thought she is leaving over no women priests. She is leaving because Pope Benedict is 'running away from the church'? Not so, he resigned for the good of the church, because he felt he couldn't do the tasks required, but he is on the Vatican grounds and he will be praying for the good of the Church, a monastic life, it's like we have two popes.

There are Catholics who became Protestant, but there is also the Anglican Ordinariate for Anglicans who want to be in communion with the Catholic Church.

Mar. 18 2013 11:43 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Tony from Canarsie is #1

Mar. 18 2013 11:39 AM
Tony from Canarsie

"There is no heresy or no philosophy which is so abhorrent to the church as a human being." -- James Joyce

Mar. 18 2013 11:10 AM
Ed from Larchmont

I think it's a problem of orientation. Our task as Catholics is not to sit back and judge the Vatican or the pope or the bishops (of course to give input if one thinks it's needed). It's to be obedient to the pope and the Church, that's our task, and our salvation.

Mar. 18 2013 10:52 AM

This former altar boy and current agnostic thinks that church is NOT time well spent for those who are deep thinkers. Catholicism as an institution inhibits intellectual growth.

Mar. 18 2013 10:52 AM

This former altar boy and current agnostic thinks that church is NOT time well spent for those who are deep thinkers. Catholicism as an institution inhibits intellectual growth.

Mar. 18 2013 10:52 AM

Ed how do u love someone you dont know?
it kind of means you can believe without thinking

Mar. 18 2013 10:49 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

Bob - that's my point. Having them pay taxes changes that.

Mar. 18 2013 10:48 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Ed from Larchmont - You are a crazy person.

Mar. 18 2013 10:48 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Sheldon, the Church is tax-exmpt. 'nuff said.

Mar. 18 2013 10:47 AM
Robert from NYC

Benedict was a failure from the very start. He was aware of his fragility and inability to take on such a huge endeavor as a vatican insider and he should have declined on the vote. He should have at his conclave spoken to his co-conspirators and convinced them not to vote for him. Benedict's was a politically selfish and egotistical move to push himself into history on the list of Popes. I'd like to hear all this praise he's receiving from his brethren to stop, as he is a failure and has, as the caller said, like JP II reversed every good thing about Vatican II started by John XXIII.

Mar. 18 2013 10:46 AM
Ed from Larchmont

As a Catholic, we love the new pope. We loved the old pope. We love the Church. It's our task to work on our souls, and trust the pope can do his work, though we pray for him.

Mar. 18 2013 10:46 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

Bob - how do we subsidize the church? We do have (theoretical)separation of church and state you know.

Mar. 18 2013 10:44 AM

Ed from Larchmont
Open your eyes, the pews are empty
And the church IS a corporation!

Mar. 18 2013 10:43 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

You're free to practice your religion, just don't ask us to pay for it. And stop raping kids. Thank you

Mar. 18 2013 10:43 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Why the hell are we still subsidizing the church? These are superstitious people and we shouldn't be allowing much needed money go to their nutty practices in the 21st century.

Mar. 18 2013 10:41 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

Instead of "leaving", why don't Emma and other disillusioned Catholics, form their own sect of reform Catholicism?

Mar. 18 2013 10:40 AM
Ed from Larchmont

Save a letter from the bishop? Do you know how seldom one gets a letter read from the bishop?

The priests have a lot to do at Mass, they can't stop and comment about things. What would they say? - we don't know this pope yet. Usually when a letter from the bishop is read, that covers the topic.

Mar. 18 2013 10:40 AM

Waiting for change? DON’T HOLD YOUR BREATH

Mar. 18 2013 10:39 AM
Robert from NYC

LOL I don't see many catholics writing here, LOL.

Mar. 18 2013 10:39 AM
Ed from Larchmont

If someone feels that it's a fault that the Catholic Church doesn't ordain women, it shows a lack of understanding of Catholic theology, and a placing of external norms, like those of a corporation, onto the Church, which is foreign to the Church.

Mar. 18 2013 10:38 AM
Andrew from New York, NY

At my church, I heard about the importance of reconciliation. Pope Francis was able to reconcile his differences with the priests who were abducted during the war. They sat together and were able to leave behind their differences. This is just what the church needs: thinking about the future.

Mar. 18 2013 10:38 AM
Ed from Larchmont

One doesn't leave the Catholic Church for good, one can always come back, until death.

Mar. 18 2013 10:37 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

Use asset seizure laws to take all these churches, sell them off and use the money to pay down the debt.

Mar. 18 2013 10:34 AM
Adrienne from NYC

So sick of hearing about the Pope. Who cares? Let's hear about some important issues for a change.

Mar. 18 2013 10:33 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

When are we going to get serious in this country and stop allowing tax advantages to these bigoted, sexist, racist, anti-science religions?

Seriously, if you are still a practicing Catholic that gives money and support to the Church, then you clearly hate children and women and the ideas of the enlightenment.

Mar. 18 2013 10:33 AM
Bob from Brooklyn

The Catholic Church is a pathetic 14th century punchline. And there is no god.

Mar. 18 2013 10:29 AM

Next Sunday if u happen to be in a catholic church (do catholics still go to church?)
count how many families have more than 4 children
The catholic church is a myth, so is god.

Mar. 18 2013 10:20 AM
Robert from NYC

Ah, Sant'Andrea della Valle, Tosca, Act I.

Mar. 18 2013 09:56 AM
Ed from Larchmont

Did you run out of atheists to interview that now you're interviewing an apostate from the Church? It does show that the concern is about the Catholic Church specifically. Nice show to run days after the new pope is elected, even before his installation.

On the other hand, why is she leaving? Pope Francis is dedicated to the poor, while at the same time not being a departure from what Pope Benedict worked on. What would lead her to leave? (By the way, she didn't leave Catholicism behind, she stepped off the boat.)

The installation of Pope Francis is Tuesday, his sermon is very important. Of course he was prayed for and spoken of at Mass this weekend.

Mar. 18 2013 05:53 AM

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