Streams

Resignation Machination

Thursday, May 08, 2008

With Hillary Clinton on the ropes, we take a look at what the next few days and weeks have in store. Marie Cocco, columnist for the Washington Post Group offers her thoughts, as well as some historical perspective on how candidates have dropped out of past elections.

Guests:

Marie Cocco

Comments [114]

eva

David,
checking back in late - thanks for the umcor.org link! I will check it out.

May. 09 2008 03:13 AM
b ran from Upstate New York

I found the tenor and comments of the interviewee quite disturbing. First, though the Clinton campaign likes and seeks to divide, I should point out that I am white and male and I support Obama. I liked Hillary, but really did not like her campaign as it progressed. The experience issue (Hillary more experienced than Obama) is interesting, but wasn't George Senior more experienced than Bill, and L.B.J. more experienced than J.F.K.? I wanted a change candidate. Hillary and Bill, who became a part of her campaign around the time I stopped supporting her, are the establishment.
Many many women voted and are voting for Obama. The reason black people stopped voting for the Clintons is becasue they explicitly played the race card in NH and NC. That is what turned many many white voters off them too.
I want my candidate to have democratic values. I want an Obama administration full of experienced women who may go on to be President. I don't want a Rovian President. Irresponsible leaders exploit their personal attraction to supporters and radicalise them. This has been the HRC strategy. I am for a united Democratic party and will support the candidate who supports those values of unity.

May. 08 2008 08:54 PM
David! from NYC

mc,

do check UMCOR out. i think you can also get there by www.umcor.org . they've already got workers in arkansas helping with recovery efforts. it really is a great organization.

May. 08 2008 08:37 PM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
Oh, yes. I actually give HRC a lot of credit for this. People are always talking about how hard they think she is to work with but I think those people actually have never worked with her. She went into the Senate with all kinds of doubters wondering about her and went to work building bridges across the aisle, especially with upstate Republicans. Some of them actually went on the record saying they did not want to help anyone oppose her. I think that is the reason they couldn't find anyone. They actually like her.

May. 08 2008 05:53 PM
hjs from 11211

well the GOP has collapsed in the whole of the North east. and thanks to hill several gop reps were sent home in 2006. but i don't know if they didn't put up credible people or if she just won out right.

May. 08 2008 05:41 PM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
Thank you! I have been trying to think of that guy's name. Boy! the NYS Republicans had no stomach to send anyone credible to run against her.

May. 08 2008 05:34 PM
hjs from 11211

mc
don't forget her second run against John Spencer.

May. 08 2008 05:22 PM
mc from Brooklyn

David!
That sounds like a great organization. I'll have to check it out.

May. 08 2008 05:18 PM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
Obama had two opponents for the IL US Senate seat. The first was Jack Ryan whose estranged wife Jeri (of Star Trek Voyager fame) said he dragged her around to sex clubs when she did not want to go. He dropped out largely because of that scandal. Then the IL Republicans ran Alan Keyes against him, I suppose because they thought a black man, even one who lived in MD at the time could beat him. Almost no one took his candidacy seriously and Obama won handily.

It bears pointing out, I think, that this is the first race for either Obama or Clinton with a really strong opponent. Clinton ran against Giuliani who dropped out and then Rick Lazio, who was a stronger candidate than Keyes, but never really got up to the same level as her.

May. 08 2008 05:17 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Bob,
I think that it is important how the loser loses and the winner wins. If Obama really has the pop. votes, and the delegates in June and if the DNC et. al. have figured out how to do FL and MI and he still has the votes (he'll haev the delegates no matter what) then I think most people will be OK coming on board. Yes, there are always some who will be bitter, but I think that Obama will court them. The advice I would give to him is for him to acknowledge that many of his supporters made them (us) feel marginalized. I do not think that he is guilty of this, but some of them are.

May. 08 2008 05:12 PM
mc from Brooklyn

eva,
Agreed on the machine currently running things in Washington. It will take more than one presidential administration to clean it up I dare say. That's why it is important NOT to elect John McCain. We are outsourcing military functions in the middle east and elsewhere at an alarming rate. It needs to be far more transparent than it is now.

May. 08 2008 05:09 PM
David! from NYC

Actually, here's the direct link:

http://secure.gbgm-umc.org/donations/umcor/donate.cfm?code=3019674&id=3019674

May. 08 2008 03:59 PM
David! from NYC

Actually, here's a direct link to that project: http://secure.gbgm-umc.org/donations/umcor/donate.cfm?code=3019674&id=3019674

May. 08 2008 03:56 PM
David! from NYC

eva,

been away for awhile...I donate to Burma victims through the United Methodist Committee on Relief (UMCOR). What I like about UMCOR, which I use as my avenue for all disaster relief, is 1) 100% of my donation goes to relief. Admin costs are handled through other giving within the Methodist Church. 2) UMCOR doesn't prosletyze. It has partnerships with other faith organizations. 3) UMCOR has a good track record of staying well beyond other groups to provide the "after-the-intial-shock relief." Example: UMCOR only recently suspended its operations for Katrina victims.

www.givetomission.org

May. 08 2008 03:52 PM
hjs from 11211

bob
uhmmm, do u know who obama ran against to win the senate?

May. 08 2008 03:43 PM
Bob from New Haven CT

The reason the Democratic Party is not "united" around any single candidate at the moment is that we currently have two very compelling candidates, each representing "historic" candidacies. Who can blame the dems? I'm a BHO supporter but think that calls for HRC to leave the race are unfair. If BHO is annointed in..say..late June there is still plenty of time for run against McCain. If you think this dem nom campain is long, just try running liing through a 6 month national compain. It will be nausiating!! What will unite the party? That's easy... BHO will have to do it himself and he's quite capable. As for electability. BHO won a senate seat in Illinois. Believe me it takes a tremendous amount crossover capability / appeal for a black man to win a Senate seat in any other state, but Illinous is particularly tough. This election is galvavizing people. When HRC steps aside...yes...her supporters, particularly women, will be upset (dare I say "bitter"). Who can blame them? It's a natural reaction. BHO will have to win them back. They are entitled to to be wooed and not taken for granted. BHO is capable of doing this and he will. The dems will march to November looking very very strong and ready to make history.

May. 08 2008 03:35 PM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
YES. A lot of money is wasted on polling. But that is the only way the news media can keep having a story and keep us all salivating. so it works, in a twisted sort of way.

May. 08 2008 03:01 PM
hjs from 11211

well i know i'm a left winger

May. 08 2008 03:00 PM
eva

Morning mc,
I think you're right, there's no way to tell what's going to happen. My ultimate white southern male candidate (it was so easy!) dropped out, and maybe that's for the best, who knows? The thing is to move forward. I understand Jon P's concerns, but for me the big thing is to get the current group out of Washington. It was never clean, but the current level that the industrial military complex is working at now is leeching everything out of our country and burning it in the middle east. What a waste.

May. 08 2008 02:59 PM
hjs from 11211

mc,
i guess a lot of money is wasted on polling for no reason, then.

May. 08 2008 02:58 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Jon P,
Right you are.

hjs,
No you're not wrong. I just think none of us is right.

May. 08 2008 02:55 PM
Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ

MC,

As I said, stick with what you believe in. Sometimes that means making sacrifices. Yours is having to belong to a party you might not like but its for a greater cause you believe in. So keep up the good fight, even if its as frustrating as it is. Nothing good comes easy.

May. 08 2008 02:47 PM
hjs from 11211

i guess i'm wrong then about everything

May. 08 2008 02:45 PM
mc from Brooklyn

eva and hjs,
I really feel that trying to devine who is more electable is a useless excercise. we all see available evidence around us that people vote for all kinds of irrational reasons so it's really hard to project. I really think you have to decide what is important to you and decide who best represents that for you. That is why I do not ever slam anyone for his or her choice, even if it is not my choice. My brother has voted straight ticket Republican for years now. He was a McCarthy supporter in '68. I have never had a chance to ask him why he changed. But, bottom line, my relationship with him is more important to me than any of that.

May. 08 2008 02:39 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Jon P,
I hear you about not wanting to give up independence. I hate party lines with a passion. The problem for me is that I really want to get rid of our corrupt City Councilman and the only way to do that in this heavily Democratic district is in a primary. So I sacrifice in order to be able to have a voice in the immediately local elections. I don't think you're wishy-washy. I am divided about whether primaries should be open. I would like not to register for a party but there is opportunity for such mischief when they are open.

May. 08 2008 02:35 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Good morning, eva,
I am hoping that the aid can finally penetrate Burma. The junta has been delaying it. I am also watching Beruit with alarm. That tinder box has now exploded again.

You are right about the point I'm making re: the nomination, but I knew you got it.

May. 08 2008 02:32 PM
eva

hjs,
I don't think polarizing is inside stuff. I well remember the beating the Clintons took in their first two years of office - and how crazy that time was - not just for them, but for us.
IMO, we have too many critical issues before us to put someone in office who alienates such a large percentage of the country. I used to joke, after being shocked by seeing her booed by four solid blocks of striking police/firemen in 2002, that it wasn't her fault, she must have been born doubly homozygous recessive for the allele that pisses off men. In New York, it's easier to ignore that. Cite whatever poll you favor, but if Clinton were stronger, we'd be seeing it in the primary results, and we're not.

May. 08 2008 02:24 PM
hjs from 11211

eva
1st will money going to burma help the people or the government.

2nd
i know i'm beating a dead horse and i'm ready to move on BUT... i use this website as a guide
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May08.html it picked bush as the winner in 2004 (maybe in 2000 also)
HRC is winning, Obama is in a tie with mcccain.
polarizing is inside stuff. most people (just a feeling) don't care about that polarizing stuff they just want to feed their kids and have money to retire some day. they are the ones who will suffer under mccain not me.

May. 08 2008 02:16 PM
Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ

MC,

I lived in NY for several years and never got to vote in any primaries. In fact, this year is the first time I have voted in any primary in my 22 years of voting because NJ lets you vote in primaries if you declare you’re self to one party or another. I felt dirty straying away from being an independent for so long. But that’s the down side of being an independent. Its tuff when no one cares about you and your vote unless it’s a close race. That being said, I can understand why states just don’t let everyone vote in primaries. It could be a total free for all gone bad….

But you got to stick with what you believe in, even if it means giving up some voting opportunities or everyone else thinks you’re wishy washy because you don’t want to be a donkey or an elephant.

May. 08 2008 02:15 PM
eva

third: hjs, I hear you, and I am terrified that Obama will lose because he's black. But really, I have always seen her negatives as higher than Obama's. She is eerily polarizing. I would have gone with Biden, Edwards or Richardson before Obama, but that's not how it shaked out (shook out?), and so I gotta throw in with the one I see as more electable, and Obama, I have to admit, has an impressive ability to pull in young and old voters, black and white. He has my support, and despite what David Brooks says, we're gonna have to work our asses off until November to win this.

May. 08 2008 02:02 PM
eva

ok,
first off: who's giving to Burma victims and how?
second: mc is being a gracious "loser" (I hate that word) and I think her point that we can't afford to alienate Hillary supporters (any more than this long campaign has alienated people on both sides) is REALLY CRITICAL.

May. 08 2008 02:00 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Jon P,
Do NJ residents get to vote in primaries if they are not registered in one of the two parties? Because NY has a closed system. If that were not the case I would not belong to the Democratic Party. That said, the only way to really have a say in local elections is to vote in the primary, at least in my district.

I am very critical of both parties and both parties are divided enough that they could almost form 2 more parties each. That probably won't happen so I will do what I can to allow Working Families to at least maintain their position on the NY ballet which is infamous for its exclusivity.

May. 08 2008 01:48 PM
Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ

As a life long independent I sadly laugh at both Republicans and Democrats. When are you people going to learn that it’s a 2 party system. That means both parties have to work together to get things done. You can blame each other about what’s wrong with each other until the cows come home and absolutely nothing will come out of it at the end of the day except more divide. Maybe you should all look at your own party with some constructive criticism and change the bought by corporate culture that exists equally on both sides of the isle and is what is truly destroying this country. I’m so tired of hearing how stupid Bush is. Tell me something I don’t know.... Instead, complain about how lobbyists completely rule both parties. Complain about how your vote means nothing after your favorite politician is elected into office. Your main concern of who should win should be who can bring this country back together. Otherwise, Clinton, Obama, McCain, it doesn’t really matter who wins, it will be business as usual.

May. 08 2008 01:30 PM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,#80
I like that idea. Whenever I feel like I can't do anything as an individual I imagine myself as a small pin. Prick the bottom end and watch the air leak out. Or mimic the workers who threw their shoes (sabot) into the machinery causing "sabotage."

May. 08 2008 01:08 PM
hjs from 11211

mc
see that i also vote on the working families line. maybe we could meet in Nov plotting to overthrow the mccain government (peacefully of course)

May. 08 2008 12:58 PM
mc from Brooklyn

Oh dear, Roger - #68
The first person is I,me etc. The original hjs post made use of the second person "you." What's in the ...... that makes YOU think......"

May. 08 2008 12:58 PM
Barbara Lee from Rockaway Park, NY

On the other perhaps I should retract my criticism of the squabbling if everybody is talking about getting together for drinks.

If the Dems practice with each other now, we will be in good shape for working with Republicans next year!

May. 08 2008 12:57 PM
hjs from 11211

just for the record Rodger is rewriting history. I'm not sure what he is talking about. I'm voting for the dem nominee

ed 69, funny. but i don't think obama compares to the founding fathers, but if i was there in 1776 we'd live in a very different country today (assuming they didn't run me out of Philadelphia)

May. 08 2008 12:55 PM
mc from Brooklyn

David! hjs and Bored,
It is fun to imagine sitting around somewhere kicking this around in person. (David! your discription of yourself is inviting :-) I think we would be surprised at who we are if we actuall did. eva is probably not up yet, or at least not at the computer. She's in CA.

Layra,
Maybe you would do well to remember that your candidate is going to need most of us in Nov. or we will all be "bitter" losers. I will vote for the Democrat, likely I will vote for the Dem on the Working Families party line but the vote will count the same.

May. 08 2008 12:46 PM
Barbara Lee from Rockaway Park, NY

I'm really sorry to see this site devolve into divisive Dem squabbling. I have to say do think your guest Ms. Cocco had something to do with it (not that Dems aren't squabbling a lot these days).

Whereas I don't mind a journalist with a bias talking on your show, I did mind her message which towards the end took on a threatening tone - that there are going to be a lot of angry woman out there when Hillary doesn't get the nomination, and "don't be so sure that we are going to come around to backing him."

I am a 49 year old woman by the way.

May. 08 2008 12:30 PM
Unreasnable from Brooklyn

Of course the Democrats will loose if as pols indicate a quarter to half of all Hillary supporters will defect to the "REPUBLICANS" in November then we will have nobody to blame but those who decided so called Democrats who decided to vote John McCain.

You will be to blaim!

May. 08 2008 12:26 PM
hjs from 11211

lulu
what does MCCain offer to you?

May. 08 2008 12:24 PM
lulu from nyc

IF HILLARY IS NOT THE CANDIDATE. I WILL VOTE FOR McCAIN. THE Democrats have really screwed up. They will not win w/Obama.

May. 08 2008 12:13 PM
BL Producer from WNYC

[[Moderator Writes: Several comments have been deleted for being uncivil and unproductive. Please refrain from calling each other names, okay? Thanks!]]

May. 08 2008 12:07 PM
hjs from 11211

ed
guess we'll see.

May. 08 2008 11:56 AM
Edward from Manhattan

HJS posting circa 1775.

Dreamers,

How can the colonies ever break away from the British Empire and succeed? They will not allow it. Listen, I don't like King George III either but let's be realistic.
Also, 50% of the colonist still support the crown!

May. 08 2008 11:52 AM
Roger from Upper West Side, NY

hjs,

What you said are in your own words and now your are trying to disown them, nice try!!!

they were not stated in the context of those "other white" people in country, it was stated as the first person and throwing the PC card out their is but a canard!

May. 08 2008 11:51 AM
hjs from 11211

jason
am I now a racist because I know I live in a racist country. am I a racist because I know obama won't win in swing states like PA or Ohio, because most white people in those states and other states like that won't vote for someone who is black. I'm not sure I get your point. is this a PC alternate universe or what.

May. 08 2008 11:44 AM
Jason from Staten Island

hjs, #55

You don't read graphic novels but you have taken in hook line and sinker the historical narative that human beings are not equal which has been perpetuated as a social construct of this country, as you have stated...

"what's in obama's koolaid that makes you think a biracial man can win in Nov?"

May. 08 2008 11:40 AM
Bryony from Scarsdale

[[WNYC Moderator Comment: Please keep posts relevant to the discussion taking place on the air. That said, there's nothing wrong with a little due diligence when it comes to grammar and spelling!]]

The grammar and spelling errors on these postings are atrocious.

When pluralizing a noun, you add S. Just an S. Not an apostrophe and S. Apostrophe-S indicates the possessive. I believe we learn this in third grade.

YOUR is the possessive of the second person. YOU'RE is a contraction of "you" and "are". Again, third grade stuff.

I'd go on but at the risk of being called an elitist showing off my post-third-grade education.

May. 08 2008 11:37 AM
hjs from 11211

those of us old enough to remember the gore-bush election know how this game is played. there's going to be a lot of shocked youngsters this Fall.

May. 08 2008 11:36 AM
BORED

hahahaha Ok you are not bitter just a little tart.

May. 08 2008 11:36 AM
Jason from Staten Island

hjs, #55

You don't read graphic novels but you have taken in hook line and sinker the historical narative that human beings are not equal which has been perpetuated as a social construct of this country, as you have stated...

"what's in obama's koolaid that makes you think a biracial man can win in Nov?"

May. 08 2008 11:35 AM
hjs from 11211

I"M NOT BITTER

May. 08 2008 11:34 AM
BORED

hjs you might be bitter but you haven't loss your sense of humor. LOL

May. 08 2008 11:30 AM
David! from NYC

hjs, i enjoy it too. i'd say that it's the humor of the intelligent, but i might be accused of being elitist.

May. 08 2008 11:30 AM
hjs from 11211

i love good sarcasm

May. 08 2008 11:28 AM
David! from NYC

am I the pot or the kettle?

May. 08 2008 11:27 AM
hjs from 11211

Layra
i'm not a loser until nov.
you sound bitter also. good thing obama isn't anything like you.

May. 08 2008 11:27 AM
hjs from 11211

dreamers,
listen few people will be happier then I if obama won (but he won't) if he gets nothing else done in his first 4 years it would send such a positive message to the world that Unitedstarters would elect a son of an African Muslim to the highest office. and the message to our nation, we are ready to end 300 years of racism and that we are ready to move forward into the 21st century and leave everything else (ie superstition, fears of gays, fear of science ) behind. but I've read more than one history book and it wasn't a graphic novel either.

May. 08 2008 11:24 AM
Layra from Brooklyn


More sarcasm (David)very mature!

May. 08 2008 11:22 AM
David! from NYC

spoken like a gracious winner

I'm so glad we're uniting the country.

May. 08 2008 11:19 AM
Layra from Brooklyn

hjs and David, Your candidate lost so grow up and stop being

"Poor losers".

May. 08 2008 11:16 AM
David! from NYC

Layra,

I guess we'll just have to cling to our guns and our religion. ;-)

May. 08 2008 11:12 AM
hjs from 11211

Layra
here's another word realist

May. 08 2008 11:12 AM
David! from NYC

hjs,

good point, so just keep imagining me as 6-3, big chest, slim waist, and a head full of hair

:-)

May. 08 2008 11:12 AM
Layra from Brooklyn

hjs,

just one word, BITTER!

May. 08 2008 11:09 AM
hjs from 11211

d,
yes, but then the magic would be gone

May. 08 2008 11:04 AM
hjs from 11211

mc
the number might be 28 today but it i'm sure that it will drop. many clinton supporters will vote dem. i have a feeling from some of the venom i've heard these past months obama supporters would stay home or vote nader.

BORED
people don't always vote for want they want. often they vote out of fear. too bad

May. 08 2008 11:03 AM
David! from NYC

BORED, hjs, mc, eva--doesn't seem to be here today, and others: is it just me, or have any of you ever thought that it'd be pretty cool to get together for a drink after work some day and actually meet one another and discuss some of these things in person?

May. 08 2008 11:01 AM
David! from NYC

BORED,

Grazie!

May. 08 2008 10:58 AM
hjs from 11211

dreamers
HRC is not right wing
McGovern 1972, (ted) kennedy 1980, Dukakis 1984, kerry 2004, obama 2008 ALL too liberal for the American people. nightmares followed for american and the world.

enjoy

May. 08 2008 10:56 AM
mc from Brooklyn

Bored,
I think that either candidate will struggle. That is why the nominee should truly be the one that most Democrats want. By the way, the percentage of HRC's supporters who say they will cross over is closer to 28%. Not good, but not 50%. Anyone who is serious about progressive causes, health care, federal courts, reproductive choice etc., should be repelled by McCain. He gets worse and worse.

May. 08 2008 10:56 AM
BORED

Ok if you are telling the truth then complain away because the rules are kind of silly and lead to people being suspicious of the process.

May. 08 2008 10:56 AM
mc from Brooklyn

David!
I agree wholeheartedly with you about the nominating process. What a mess. Every time the rules are changed to make it better it seems to get worse. We need to do a thorough reform and it needs to not be a reaction to the current situation. That is how we made trouble for ourselves before.

May. 08 2008 10:53 AM
David! from NYC

Besides, the argument of the lack of DNC uniformity has more elements. Caucuses vs. primaries? Proportional division of delegates?

(The DNC fought hard against a measure in California that would have divided that state's general election electoral votes based on congressional district outcome; yet, that's how Democratic primaries/caucuses have been handled.)

I'm beginning to believe--sadly--that we really are the party that knows how to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

May. 08 2008 10:53 AM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
I hear you and it is really hard not to be pesimistic about the electoral college and race. But I think that is not a reason not to support someone if you really think that person is the best candidate. I did not choose Obama in this particular contest, but unlike many posters on this page, I respect others' reasons for disagreeing with me.

May. 08 2008 10:52 AM
holly from manhattan, ny

Your guest, Marie Cocco, offers a thinly veiled, badly argued apology for Clinton--so thinly veiled to the point of transparency. She sounds desperate to make a poorly supported point, like Hilary Clinton sounds when she's defending her clearly sinking, hypocritical and below-the-belt campaign.

Brian, I can't recall the last time you had as unabashed a 'journalist' in support of Obama on your show.

May. 08 2008 10:50 AM
David! from NYC

BORED,

Yes.

May. 08 2008 10:49 AM
BORED

David!
You wait till now to complain about this. This is sad. Did you raise these concerns at anytime prior to Hillary's campaign falling apart?

May. 08 2008 10:49 AM
BORED

HJS
This is a democracy if thats what peoplev want then thats how they will vote. If HRC was the candidate do you really believe she would do better. Ask the 50% HRC supporters who plan on voting for McCain those questions. Ask them if thats what they want. Hell email HRC and ask her if thats what she wants. I know thats not what i want but you seem to be ok with it.

May. 08 2008 10:46 AM
David! from NYC

Antonio,

Until the DNC sets a uniform system of holding primaries, those questions are questionable, if you'll excuse the play on words.

Sen. Clinton won more votes in both Nevada and Texas, yet Sen. Obama "won" more delegates. Where's the fairness in that?

Beyond a Clinton / Obama contest, my complaint for several elections is that the nominating process is broken. Not flawed. Broken. Two small states, Iowa and New Hampshire, have way too much influence over the rest of the nation. Even the voters of NY and NJ who voted relatively early in the process, still didn't have a complete slate to choose from, because some candidates had already dropped out of the race because of early results. How is that not a form of disenfranchisement?

While my interest in Democrat, the same holds true for the GOP.

May. 08 2008 10:46 AM
Edward from Manhattan

hjs

The dem party almost did shoot itself in the foot again by nominating another "stiff" in the same league with Gore or Kerry. Her name is Hillary "permanent high negatives" Clinton.

May. 08 2008 10:46 AM
Patrick from Brooklyn

hjs, #29

I rather be a dreamer than give up on life, "Get use to it" if this is what Hillary inspires no wonder she has lost this race.

May. 08 2008 10:45 AM
hjs from 11211

mc 25
guess i have no faith in my country men. and with our track record i can't see why anyone else would. i know he won't win because didn't win the swing state primaries. it's SO clear.

May. 08 2008 10:43 AM
hjs from 11211

BORED and other dreamers
see you in NOV. the dem party as always will shoot itself in the foot. McCain will be next president. courts to move FURTHER to the right, 4 more years of unending war, NO investments for Education and no prep for retiring boomers.
JUST GET USE to IT!

May. 08 2008 10:39 AM
mc from Brooklyn

Bored,
Nice, "Bitter." "Cling." This is a great way to strengthen your candidate. Marginalize half the Democratic electorate. Does it make sense to you to lump a huge group together like that and to see them as all thinking the same way?

May. 08 2008 10:38 AM
Reason from Brooklyn

mc, #25

Thank You!

Reality is created by those who can see a different world from the one they live in!

May. 08 2008 10:38 AM
Robbie from New York

'Who has more delegates' and 'who is more electable' are interesting questions. But what about issues? Obama and Clinton are largely in agreement on core issues. After that, electing the proverbial first of a gender or race is splendid. But clearly that's not enough to put bread on the table or float everyone's boat. Then there's leadership? By my sites, both Obama and Clinton hugely reflect leader-like qualities although my sense is Obama represents the classic "great leader" archetype we recognize. And lastly, there's the detail of campaign performance, a key indicator of how a Presidency will function. Obama's presidential campaign has been perhaps the best run of any we've ever seen. Thus, Obama has garnered more wins in states, popular vote, delegates, and money. And when you contrast those accomplishments to the simple fact that "Clinton" is the biggest brand in the Democratic Party and who ever heard of Obama before three years ago ---I'd say, we'd be wise to hold on to this guy Obama before he changes his mind!!

May. 08 2008 10:36 AM
mc from Brooklyn

hjs,
I am a Clinton supporter. That said, I truly hope that a biracial candidate CAN win in November. The idea that people vote against him for that reason is repugnant to me.

May. 08 2008 10:33 AM
BORED

It doesn't make sense to talk to HRC supporters. They are bitter so they cling to fairytales like "winning big states" and "Working class voters" (This means white voters because the HRC camp doesn't believe that blacks can also be working class). They cling to hope that HRC will win. What else can be said. If you rather Mccain then Obama thats your choice. If you feminist love Alito and Roberts as supreme court justices vote McCain.

May. 08 2008 10:31 AM
Edward from Manhattan

The real math:

Electable = White

Working Class, under 50K, White, No college = Archie Bunkers

May. 08 2008 10:30 AM
mc from Brooklyn

p,
I agree with #2 and #3, but one of the reasons that Obama may be having trouble getting unity is his rather weak domestic policy.

May. 08 2008 10:29 AM
Reason from Brooklyn

The reality is that most of the post on this medium has analyzed both candidates short comings and more often than not the analysis reflected the poor job Hillary has done on this campaign. This is not an opinion but a reflection on the actions of individual candidates. Hence the perceived imbalance of the comments!

May. 08 2008 10:29 AM
hjs from 11211

what's in obama's koolaid that makes you think a biracial man can win in Nov?

May. 08 2008 10:27 AM
p from Manhattan

Cocco appears to be an exception to this show's normal practice of not allowing politcal spinsters on for commentary. Here, however, the level of analysis is on par with that of the cable news stations.

A couple of comments:
1.) the reason the democratic party has not "united" around Obama is that Clinton has been waging a scorched earth campaign agianst him playing on the fears and prejudices of certain parts of the electorate.

2.)If the democrats had the republican format, it is not at all clear Clinton would be the nominee, as Obama would obviously have allocated his resources differently.

3.)To suggest that Clinton has won "all the big-states" and include Florida and Michigan forgets that Obama did not campaign in either state.

May. 08 2008 10:25 AM
Mike from Brooklyn

Is "electable" the same as "white"?

May. 08 2008 10:23 AM
antonio from park slope

David,
The super-delegates are gathering together, and will come out in due time.
My questions for you are the following,
who one more states
who one more delegates
and is winning the popular vote (eve with florida or michigan)

May. 08 2008 10:22 AM
Zack from Manhattan

What's most annoying about all this is the way that people equate Obama losing Democratic primaries in certain states with him losing a general election in those states. When you look at the Democrat voter turnout and compare it to the Republican turnout, it appears that more Democratic voters are showing up and, unless large amounts of them defect to McCain or stay home, whoever is the Democratic nominee is looking pretty good.

May. 08 2008 10:21 AM
Jill from Croton Falls

Marie Coco thinks all women support HRC. I would have liked to but can't.

I've been a BHO supporter for some time. I am a feminist, 42-year-old who believes in Obama's promise to stay positive and move forward.

HRC has tried to belittle, out-macho, etc. and YES, it'd be great if Obama were a female, but I won't hold it against him that he's not.

How about Janet Napolitano as VP? or Patti Murray? or some other woman? or Wesley Clark and get on with getting out of Iraq...

May. 08 2008 10:21 AM
mc from Brooklyn

This needs to be resolved in a way that does not marginalize the supporters of either candidate. Some of the posters here would do well to recognize that neither candidate can win without the supporters of the other. While there has been nastiness on both sides, in this forum most, but not all of the nastiness has come from Obama supporters.

May. 08 2008 10:21 AM
Edward from Manhattan

Marie Coco is a shill for Hillary. I guess now that Coco has lost an inside political connection (and I hate to use this term) but she's probably "bitter".

May. 08 2008 10:20 AM
Josh from Brooklyn

This guest is an obfuscating the issue, so we should vote Hillary because she is a women, but should not vote for Obama because he is Black.

May. 08 2008 10:17 AM
Edward from Manhattan

It's all Jesse Jackson's fault.

Let's blame everyone except Hillary and her campaign "strategy".

May. 08 2008 10:16 AM
mc from Brooklyn

Democracy: according to MW Webser: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation, usually involving periodically held free election. In other words "voting."

May. 08 2008 10:16 AM
Steve from Brooklyn

This is all so ridiculous at this point. There were rules agreed upon by all candidates before the primaries started. Obama has played by the rules and done very well. Clinton is trying to change the rules now that she is losing. Why is the media legitimizing her false argument about Michigan and Florida?

As Hillary has said many times -- Let's get real!!
She can't win without stealing the nomination from someone who will win more states, more popular votes and more delegates....and raised more money for the party and brought in many new voters.

Why do we have to hear the b.s. over and over again?!

May. 08 2008 10:15 AM
Leonardo Andres

I agree, the delegate count needed to obtain the nomination has not been reached by both candidates. Why is Hilary being asked to step down? The media keeps pushing this idea that obama is the nominee. While yes it seems that he will be the likely nominee, there are still a couple of states left, and until obama reaches the magic number, clinton should stay in the race.

May. 08 2008 10:13 AM
Marry from NJ

Unbelievable people are still drinking the coolaid, and think she can still win the nomination!

May. 08 2008 10:12 AM
kathy from nyc

[[This comment removed for violating the WNYC posting policy. Please keep comments civil, productive, and relevant to the discussion on the air.]]

May. 08 2008 10:11 AM
pat from NYC

i don't understand the way Florida and Michigan are being positioned in terms of "democracy". Democracy doesn't simply mean voting. It means following the rules set in place for the voting mechanism as well. Changing the status of Florida and Michigan at this point would be expos factos and thus undemocratic.

May. 08 2008 10:11 AM
BORED

Sen Clinton has one last card to play. Its the race card. The question is will she play it.

May. 08 2008 10:11 AM
Cynthia from Baffalo

Which we knew three month's ago!

May. 08 2008 10:06 AM
David! from NYC

While Sen. Clinton is trailing in the delegate count, Sen. Obama will likely NOT receive enough delegates to secure the nomination either by the end of the primaries.

Where's the call for HIM to step down?

Here, for one.

May. 08 2008 10:06 AM
William from Westchester

What is their to say, it is over for her!

May. 08 2008 10:01 AM

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