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Oscar Nominated Documentaries: "The Gatekeepers"

Wednesday, February 13, 2013

The annual series on the best documentary Oscar nominees continues with a conversation with Dror Moreh, director of "The Gatekeepers." 

Guests:

Dror Moreh

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Comments [35]

Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

As a non-Zionist Orthodox Jew, I cringe every time I hear the most intransigent, and even violent "religious Zionists" referred-to as "Ultra-Orthodox". This is a complete perversion; the overwhelming consensus of Torah authorities have always opposed Zionism, from its inception, in all of its forms.

(Additionally, "Ultra-Orthodox" is altogether a highly problematic, tendentious term but that goes beyond the scope of the topic.)

Mar. 18 2013 11:27 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Noach, You have a new friend - dyob.

Maybe you can invite him over for your Passover Seder.

Feb. 13 2013 01:07 PM

@ Noach ~

You seem like a bright, insightful person. Why do you bother to engage the idiotic ideologues?

Feb. 13 2013 01:05 PM

...just using the vernacular.

G_D, god, God, mythological phantasm... all the same to me.

Feb. 13 2013 01:03 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn,

You trot out your past evasive comments, never addressing the question as to how tolerant Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood would be of "Non-Zionist Orthodox Jews" such as yourself.

Are Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood tolerant of Jews, even anti-Zionist Jews such as yourself?

Does your being anti-Zionist trump your being an [Orthodox] Jew?

Could you safely live in Gaza or Ramallah, without being harassed or worse under an Islamist government?

If you feel you would be using a disproportionate share of the utilities of Gaza, perhaps you could pay a disproportionate amount to compensate?

Feb. 13 2013 12:47 PM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

@jg: If film maker Dror Moreh were only interested in ingratiating himself to the left and cashing-in, as you allege, how do you explain the following parts from his "Democracy Now!" interview?

Just an act?

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/1/29/the_gatekeepers_in_new_film_ex

________Begin Quoted Excerpts from Transcript________

DROR MOREH: Well, look, I—I have to say that I a little bit feel uncomfortable in the way that you present the things here, because you portray the things as if Israel is the brutal, aggressive all the time, with the Palestinians, that they are like doves. There is reason why the Shin Bet is doing what it’s doing there. And the fact of the matter is that you cannot say—in a way, portray Israel as the aggressive and the Palestinians are the innocent bystander who are always being killed by those aggressive forces. It’s not the case at all, and I think that this is misleading the people that are watching that.
......
What I felt is that when you portray that as the Palestinians are people that are sitting there, you know, and not doing anything, it’s not the reality on the ground. And by that, you have to show both sides, because I think that when you do that, you portray only one side. And I said that before. It’s—you have to be balanced. And this is something that I felt that is not so much here.

___________End Quoted Excerpts from Transcript_____________

Feb. 13 2013 12:43 PM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

@Edward of Wash./Hudson Hts.:

Copied and pasted from a compilation I had put together:
___________________
NOTE: I had already responded to this ridiculous non-sequitur red-herring from "Edward of Washington Heights" back when he first posted it on November 20th. He did not respond. In addition to trotting it out again in the above two posts of January 28th, this individual did so on December 7th as well.

Below is the aforementioned response of mine from November 20th
( http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/2012/nov/20/update-gaza/ )
........
Noah S. Rothstein ("Noach of Brooklyn")

@Edward of Washington Heights:

First of all, where did I even defend Hamas, much less claim that they are "tolerant" or "multi-cultural"?

Secondly, why would I even feel _entitled_ to live in Gaza in the first place?

How could there be any sense or justice in Jews further encroaching upon the Palestinians land and resources by settling in Gaza-- one of the most densely-populated and battered places in the world, where every bit of the already scarce and strained resources are desperately needed by the Palestinians?

Is there not already plenty of such encroachment in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, where the _expansion_ of Israeli settlements continues, while Palestinian homes are demolished, etc., etc.?

Your question is a complete non-sequitur.

Feb. 13 2013 12:29 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Menachem Begin was a great leader of Israel.

Anwar Sadat took a chance to end the state of war between Egypt and Israel.

Sadat paid for his peace with Israel by being assassinated by the Muslim Brotherhood, the same group behind Morsi today who also are trying to crush Democracy in Egypt.

Feb. 13 2013 12:24 PM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

@dboy:

That's the second time now I've seen you write "G_D" that way...Makes we wonder about your background...

Feb. 13 2013 12:21 PM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

Correction: Regarding Begin, I should have written "...after leaving office." rather than "after resigning".

(I _meant_ leaving office, and only realized after posting that "resigning" is used when someone leaves before completing their term.)

Feb. 13 2013 12:17 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

I'd like to see the anti-Zionist Neturi Karta move to Gaza or Ramallah or Egypt or Syria.

Let's see how that works out.

Feb. 13 2013 12:03 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

Stay in your ghetto Noach. Forever.

Feb. 13 2013 12:00 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

No Dboy

THANK GOD that despite the massive waves of bitter enemies, both external and internal, the Jewish state continues to survive and even thrive. All the traitors and external enemies will find out if God exists or not eventually. Perhaps to their dismay.

Feb. 13 2013 11:57 AM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

"The hard bitten socialist Left has controlled Israel since the 1920s, not the Jabotinskyites."

What did you think of Begin?

I heard Norman Finkelstein praise him for making torture illegal and for being sincere and living humbly after resigning.

Feb. 13 2013 11:57 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Noach

Any Jew who denies that the land west of the Jordan river is Jewish land - and that fact was confirmed by the COuncil of the League of Nations in 1922- is a self-hating traitor who accepts the idea that Israel is actually Arab land, instead of Israel being Jewish land. Anyone who denies that Judah and Samaria are not Jewish land is denying not only history but international law set down by the League of Nations in the Mandate of 1922.

Feb. 13 2013 11:54 AM

THANK G_D FOR SANE, INTELLIGENT, CRITICAL FILM MAKERS!!

Thank you, it sounds like a great and brave film. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Feb. 13 2013 11:48 AM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

It is quite perverse when the most rabid, violent "religious Zionists" are referred-to as "Ultra-Orthodox".

"Ultra-Orthodox" is a highly problematic and generally misleading term.

The media uses it quite indiscriminately, labeling everyone from the most fanatic and violent "religious-ZIONIST" settlers, to the most zealously ANTI-ZIONIST Orthodox Jews (such as Neturei Karta), under the same "Ultra-Orthodox" label.

The other problem with the term "Ultra-Orthodox" goes beyond the scope of the topic at hand but I will just summarize briefly.

"Ultra-Orthodox" is used (usually with at least a hint of pejorative intent) to label any Orthodox Jews who are to the right (theologically/ in terms of level of observance) of "Modern-Orthodox". This sets _"Modern-Orthodox"_ as the standard of normative halakhic Judaism, against which others are compared. Such an assertion is, at _best_, highly _subjective_ and contentious-- certainly not one that can be made by anyone claiming objectivity.

Feb. 13 2013 11:48 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

To Noach

Exactly. The hard bitten socialist Left has controlled Israel since the 1920s, not the Jabotinskyites. Israel's weakness was being to soft and kind and not driving the Arabs out of Judah and Samaria in 1949. Letting the Arabs stay and their demographic skyrocket to ten times the population they had in 1947 is due to the RABID, foaming at the mouth Left like this gold-digging Hollywood-style Leftist movie maker. And your group, Noach, too is one of Israel's self-hating enemies.

Feb. 13 2013 11:48 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

If only Muslim clerics would preach against war, against jihad on Infidels.

A war on Infidels that have killed people all over the world.

A war that kills Jews, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Bahais, Zoroastrians.

Feb. 13 2013 11:46 AM
Scott

Perhaps what's needed to engender civility in discussions about the Middle East is for everyone to recognize two things. One, as Moreh's subjects argue, is that in the long term the occupation is a threat to Israel's international legitimacy. The second is that the current Palestinian National Movement is not a viable peace partner and that giving that movement control of a full-fledged state would be just as much of a threat to the state of Israel.

All too often, people latch on to one of those and either ignore or deny the other. If people who focus on one of those issues could recognize the other issue and look for solutions to their issue that at a minimum do not exacerbate the other rather than attacking anyone who expresses any measure of concern about the other issue, we would be able to have a civil debate about how to proceed.

Feb. 13 2013 11:44 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklynm,

According to your self description,

could you openly live as an Orthodox Jew in Gaza or Ramallah?

Could you dress as an Orthodox Jew and go to synagogue, shop in markets selling Kosher food in Gaza?

Feb. 13 2013 11:43 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Joseph's brothers sold Joseph into slavery to the Ishmaelites,and this guy and his leftist brothers are exactly the same. The biggest of the Jews has always been Jews. Since Biblical days. Nothing new here.

Feb. 13 2013 11:42 AM
Elaine from Baltimore

Dror: RE: Israeli communities over the armistice lines from 1967, "What should be the Palestinian state."

Isn't that up to the negotiations, not a film director?

Feb. 13 2013 11:41 AM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

@jgarbuz:

So you dismiss all five of these former heads of Shin Bet as nothing more than, "self-hating", and "self-bashing"?

Feb. 13 2013 11:41 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Just as the US is afflicted by wacko leftists, Israel also suffers the same problem.

Note that there are sanctimonious groups calling themselves "Jewish Voice for Peace", there is no sister group calling themselves "Muslim Voice for Peace" because they would be killed by Islamist groups like Hamass, Hezbullah or the Muslim Brotherhood.

60,000+ people have been killed in Syria, Arabs killing Arabs, and you don't see rallies across the street from Syrian embassies, consulates, mission.

Feb. 13 2013 11:39 AM
Allan from New Jersey

There is what looks like a political reaction to this film reflected in the imdb film ratings: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2309788/ratings. Without the abnormal "1" ratings,
this would be rated as a high, almost 8.4

Feb. 13 2013 11:39 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

Ask your guest if he would favor a population swap? Let's swap 1.6 million Arabs living inside the Green Line, for the 500,000 Jews living on the other side of the Green Line. If no Jews can live in Judah and Samaria, why should Arabs be living in Nazareth, Haifa, Beersheba, et al.?

Feb. 13 2013 11:39 AM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

Is the first caller, by any chance, the Israeli woman who was "On Being" a while back with a Palestinian man whom she formed a relationship and works with to promote dialogue and understanding between the two peoples?
............
Follow-up to my previous post, in which I wrote:

"I plead with my all of my fellow Jews to start opening their eyes to the Palestinian perspective."

Actually, not just the Palestinian perspective but also perspectives such as those of Mr. Moreh and the former Shin Bet leaders he interviewed in the film.

Feb. 13 2013 11:38 AM

How many of the ignorant detractors of this film who are posting here HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN THE FILM?!?!

Pathetic.

Feb. 13 2013 11:38 AM
Lynda from Manhattan

Incredibly well done documentary. A must-see for all who want a deeper understanding of Israeli history going forward from the six-day war to the present. A mind-boggling complicated situation. There will always be extreme POVs but I found the film to be very fair.

<a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIH4QVbdTRg >youtube to mp3</a>

Feb. 13 2013 11:37 AM
jgarbuz from Queens

The Shin Bet is Israel's FBI and yes it also operates inside Israel and in all the territories as well.

Once again, a big rabid leftist movie director strikes Hollywood gold with a self-hating Israeli self bashing film. Only in a democracy like Israel can this happen. I'd like to see Iran put out a similar documentary on the Revolutionary Guards.

Feb. 13 2013 11:34 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Remember US Senator and Presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy - assassinated by a "palestinian" in 1968.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy

Feb. 13 2013 11:32 AM
Noach (Non-Zionist, Independent Orthodox Jew) from Brooklyn

I enjoyed hearing Dror Moreh on Democracy Now!-- esp. the way he asserted himself and challenged the hosts.

(I missed him on Lopate and haven't listened to the mp3 yet.)

If only I had the power, I would make material the likes of this film and "Five Broken Cameras" mandatory parts of the curriculum in every yeshiva.

I plead with my all of my fellow Jews to start opening their eyes to the Palestinian perspective.

Feb. 13 2013 11:30 AM
Tom from Toronto

Please spend the time talking about Prisoner X, Ben Zygier, who was evidently an Israeli Mossad agent who died in jail.

Please speculate on what damaging info he may have known about what Israel did?

Thank you.

Feb. 13 2013 11:28 AM
Tom Palasits from Fanwood, NJ

Where can this and the rest of the nominated documentaries be seen?

Feb. 13 2013 11:28 AM

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