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Post-VP Debate Analysis

Friday, October 12, 2012

Joe Biden and Paul Ryan debate in Danville, Kentucky (SAUL LOEB/AFP/Getty Images)

Last night's debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan saw testy exchanges over Medicare, foreign policy, and unemployment--and plenty of memorable lines. First,  Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor and publisher of The Nation, then Stephen Moore, editorial board member for The Wall Street Journal and author of Who's the Fairest of Them All?, break down the debate--plus listeners' calls.

Guests:

Stephen Moore and Katrina vanden Heuvel
News, weather, Radiolab, Brian Lehrer and more.
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Comments [98]

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I drop a leave a response whenever I especially enjoy a post on a website or if I have something
to valuable to contribute to the discussion.

It is a result of the passion displayed in the article I looked
at. And after this post The Brian Lehrer Show:
Post-VP Debate Analysis - WNYC. I was excited enough to post a comment ;) I do have
a couple of questions for you if it's okay. Could it be just me or do some of these comments come across as if they are left by brain dead individuals? :-P And, if you are writing on additional online social sites, I'd like to
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all your social sites like your Facebook page, twitter feed,
or linkedin profile?

Mar. 06 2013 10:48 PM
Jennifer Heintzman

I enjoyed the discussion until the forensic psychologist came on and announced that, using his well developed powers of forensic observation and analysis, he has concluded absolutely and professionally, that Joe Biden is mentally ill. Such unprofessionalism really gives the rest of us in the world of psychology a bad name.

Oct. 12 2012 09:53 PM
jawbone

I wish Brian had asked the woman who was so enthusiastic about how Ryan presented his 5, or was it 6, point plan to put into her own words just what was in that plan.

When I chart it, I get to a point where taxes are cut, government programs for the middle class, working class, and poor are cut, then...MAGIC HAPPENS! And suddenly all the corporations which won't hire people will hire them, all the workers without jobs will get one, and all the consumers will buy, buy, buy.

No explanation of what will be cut, how deeply, or what makes the Magic Happen.

I would really like to hear what the lady thinks the R/R plan actually is.

Oct. 12 2012 04:44 PM
amalgam from NYC by day, NJ by night

Substance over style...always.

As long as the debater and/or orator keeps his or her emotions and behavior in check - which Biden clearly did - then I'm most interested in their policy program and their past record. (i.e., what have you DONE, not what are you saying [mere rhetoric])

Certainly style and presentation matters, but in this short attention span, often superficial American culture, style is weighted FAR too heavily.

Oct. 12 2012 04:25 PM

I also think its funny that the whole country completely forgot about the days before Biden was POTUS' comedy relief! For people who thought of Biden as "Crazy Uncle Joe" severely underestimated the amount of smarts and grit ANYONE has to have with that much time in the senate.

He has forgotten more than Ryan can possibly talk about just based on his experience and he displayed it. I'd say that about anyone who's been in the senate that long. McCain spanked the heck out of his challenger in exactly the same way. You can't underestimate these guys.

Oct. 12 2012 03:15 PM

Would someone correct and or attack the next Romney apologist who says his 47% comments were "inartful" or "inarticulate?" They were very artful and articulate and they went on and on. It wasn't a flub, it was a lengthy indictment of those in need and he should be taken to task on it. Come on, people.

Oct. 12 2012 02:17 PM
Margaret from NJ

I am sorry, I owe an apology to the governor of NJ (I mentioned in my previous comment). I misspelled his name. Of course it is Cris Christie.

Oct. 12 2012 01:08 PM
Margaret from NJ

Our President was composed and polite during his debate. He delivered his message calmly in the convincing way. He was criticized as not being aggressive. Our vice- President was fiery and delivered his message in a very energetic, confident way. He is being criticized as aggressive and rude. Give me a break people. You are like republican congress: no matter what it is, coming from Democrats it is wrong . By the way, speaking rude it is Chris Christy of NJ.

Oct. 12 2012 12:56 PM
RCT from NYC

I should have written, re the 10 baseballs in the tennis game: "While you're trying to figure out which ball to go after, and whether to catch it or hit it with your racket, your opponent tosses another baseball, interrupting your effort to respond. You look like a fool, rushing after flying objects, while he looks strong and confident. Obama did what many people do when confronted with the Gallop; he retreated and tried to hold his ground. Joe had the better strategy; he attacked"

Oct. 12 2012 12:09 PM
RCT from NYC

I was just on the air, talking about the Gish Gallop, and got a little tongue-tied and scrambled. I really hate being on the air, because I am better on paper, but I wanted people to understand that what Romney did, Ryan tried to do, and the Republicans do on cable news has a NAME. It's a real, live strategy that is taught to debaters by whoever prepares the Republican pundits for debates and TV appearances. Basically, it's like a tennis game in which the opponent tosses you, not merely a baseball, but rather 10 baseballs. You're trying to figure out whether to catch it or hit it with your racket; and the opponent tosses another baseball, interrupting your flow of thought.

If we call the Gallop by its name every time it's tried, we not only understand why Biden did what he did -- and why it worked -- but that the Republicans have an organized disinformation campaign going on that is not based merely on coordinated talking points, but on planned, systematic cheating. (Using the tactic described above will get you ejected from a high school debate.)

The wiki link is posted again, below. The technique is also called "spreading." I learned about its names by reading blog analyses of last week's debates; a couple of people apparently taught rhetoric and posted a few relevant links.

Oct. 12 2012 12:04 PM
Debra from North Central NJ

OMG.
The last guy - who was saying that Biden is mentally disturbed. Are you kidding me? Really, that was one of the lamest attempts at trying to sully someone's name. I'm incredulous. Those comments are offensive no matter what side you are on.

and - the small part that I did watch on both of the debates, Ryan did the same thing that Obama did - looked down and took notes. Why didn't that create the impression that Ryan was detatched and not paying attention. (didn't have a chance to read this whole thread, so if I'm repeating the point, I apologize).

Oct. 12 2012 11:51 AM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

A collection of sayings from chairman crazy uncle Joe Biden.

Joe Biden Gaffes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VAzOIT4Ef8

Oct. 12 2012 11:44 AM
Burt Kimmelman

Ryan, physically, especially on the TV screen in his closing statement, looked callow--he seemed, physically alone, too young and inexperienced to be president (should Romney not be able to govern were he elected).

Oct. 12 2012 11:43 AM
Jon from Northern NJ

The fact that so much time is spent, even on WNYC and NPR (both of which I love and support), on Biden's smirks and grimaces is indicative of how shallow the political debate is in this country. So he made faces. So what if Romney kept rolling up on his toes and had a fixed silly grin on his face? So what if Ryan looked this way or that to some people. Who cares? What counts is what they SAY. I heard from an historian years ago that Lincoln would have lost the presidency if there were televised debates in his day, given his oft-ridiculed appearance and high-pitched voice. Thank goodness voters read the speeches afterwards and based their opinion on that. Our discourse is off base.

Oct. 12 2012 11:43 AM
Henry from Katonah

Your screener should have nixed Brett from Monmouth County.

Oct. 12 2012 11:42 AM
VW from Brooklyn

Ryan serious? I thought he was cocky and disrespectful - beginning with his "rib" of Biden for gaffes early on, which was actually spoken as a taunt with the facial expression to match, all the way to the end, with yet another childish mocking tone and face about 10 minutes before the end.

Oct. 12 2012 11:38 AM

The Truth from Becky-

I agree. I didnt mean to single anyone out. I think all politicians are crossing bounds too much. I dont think that we have reached the point yet, but i see a trend where political fame and reality tv fame are intertwining. I think that politicians should not be entertaining, they should be running our country, protecting our people, and helping support our values.
Whether it be democrat or republican,there is a way to compromise wihtout limiting the freedoms and values that makes our country so great. Too many people are driven by money, democrats and republicans included.

Oct. 12 2012 11:34 AM
Anita Samet from West Orange, NJ

Overall, I think Biden did what he needed to do last night to make up for last week's poor performance by the President. I do think, at times, he was a bit over the top, with the smiling & dismissiveness, however, let's not forget how aggressive and disrespectful Romney was to the President, not to mention how dishonest he was to the American people. Ryan did a fairly good job doing what he needed to do, but once again has no real substance. He only spews campaign rhetoric and bullet points with no real specifics. Yes, it's great to say they are going to add 12 million jobs but I want to know how. Yes, the President was a bit naive thinking this republican congress would work across the aisle after a directive by Mitch McConnell to do "everything in their power" to make Obama a one-term president, but I think the 99% will be so much better off with 4 more years of Obama than any Romney/Ryan presidency. Just the fact that various CEO's are threatening their employees' jobs if Obama gets re-elected should be a clue to the American people whose side Romney is really on. He will says anything to anyone that will get him elected.

Oct. 12 2012 11:32 AM
RCT from NYC

What Romney did to Obama last week is a dirty debate strategy called the "Gish Gallop" (see link to wiki, below), in which one debater piles into a two minutes statement as many lies, half-truths and straw men, leaving the opponent overwhelmed and knowing not to which one to respond. A second facet of the Gallop is to interrupt a competitor with a false statement, to throw the opponent off base, give the illusion that the speaker knows what he's talking about, and toss still another lie into the mix.

Obama dealt with this the way most debaters do the first time that they encounter this move; he retreated and merely repeated his points. Joe, on the other hand, was prepped to do what you need to do to counter the Gallop: interrupt the misstatements with facts (in Joe's case, also gestures), to signal to the audience that the statements are untrue. This means that the lies are not allowed to pile up -- pile on -- before the opponent has a chance to respond. You've already signaled the audience that the speaker is lying, and trying to fool the audience, when your turn begins. Then you can pick out one or two of the big lies and zing them.

Ryan was thrown totally off base by Joe's responses. The Gish Gallop faltered. Joe wasn't rude; he was executing a strategy. And it worked.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Oct. 12 2012 11:26 AM
The Truth from Becky

Southherseytraveler - you can direct that to ryan as well - I mean did we NEED to see the workout pictures yesterday?! and tell me what exactly is the republican stance? We hate the President OK, got that, what else?

Oct. 12 2012 11:16 AM

@SuzyS from Manhattan

Are you mad? SCOTUS; taxes; women's healthcare; Obamacare; Iran; education; green energy...This is not the election to throw a vote away!

Oct. 12 2012 11:15 AM

I am a true independent, i believe in seeing both sides and leaving choice to the people. Media gets tied up in all the Drama of the election and not the real issues. Media is there to entertain us and thats all. Last night was a great reinvigoration for both parties. Both candidates got their views out and let everyone know where they stand. It is not right for anyone to say either one lost just because you do not agree with thier views. What makes our country so great is that fact that we can have those opposing views and still function in society. It is a fact to say that a lot lies on this election for our country.
If people spent less time criticizing the other candidates demeanor and more time listening to their stance on what you care about, we will have a lot more effective election.
Prioritize the issues you believe in and check a box D or R for their stance in those issues. Evaluate your Top 10 and choose from there. Simple yet effective.
No matter who wins, we need to all stand by and support our Leaders. One thing i have to say though, if the Democratic Party wins again, please refrain from being a Reaility TV Star. You are the Leader of the greatest country in the world. If the Republican Party wins, ensure that business pays their fair share.

Oct. 12 2012 11:13 AM

Ann Britt
"WAIT!!! The WNYC announcement omitted VP Biden's response
Biden responded "Yes, but I MEAN what I say!" "

and you missed his second part
biden added "and so does mitt romney"

Oct. 12 2012 11:01 AM
SuzyS from Manhattan

Ryan is a cold scary mean BULLY with no alternatives to offer while Biden said a bunch of democratic old lines. Absent from the debate was adults able to face, let alone deal, with the global failure of Capitalism as we know it, let alone climate change. Vote Third Party or don't.

Oct. 12 2012 10:56 AM
kikakiki26 from wall street/harlem

Did anybody else notice Ryan talked way more time than Biden, and in fact Ms. Moderator said at least 3 times to Biden quickly, Mr. Vice President, even Joe had to say to Ryan well stop taking the whole 4 minutes and YET Vice President Biden was the clear winner, talking and saying nothing, lying and obfuscating versus succinct, truthful and saying what is real and pertinent to the American people. Biden knew his business, his president and what the president has accomplished and the mood of his country and he put it all front and center.

Oct. 12 2012 10:55 AM

fuva from harlemworld
"OBiden still needs to better articulate an overarching anti-plutocracy theme ... why this is so apparently difficult for them."

me thinks it would be a very unpopular theme to carry

Oct. 12 2012 10:53 AM

I love Ryan attempting to discuss negotiations between Reagan and O'Neill!!

Biden was in the room...Ryan was in high school!!!

"Bibi?? He's been my friend for 39 years!" Does Ryan even know what country Bibi is from???

PATHETIC!!

SUPER WEENIE!!

Oct. 12 2012 10:53 AM
Jane McGuire from Florham Park, NJ

I find it surprising that so many people are focusing negatively on Biden's behavior during the debate. In the Presidential debate I felt that Romney interrupted both the President and especially Jim Leherer repeatedly and yet that behavior was considered "forceful" and "Presidential". Why is it when Biden acts in a similar manner it's considered "beneath the office of the Vice-President"? Is it because Romney's behavior was a surprise and Biden's was more true to his long seen personality? I find Romney's strange grin just as irritating as apparently some people find Biden's chuckle.

Oct. 12 2012 10:52 AM
MikeInBrklyn from Clinton Hill

On listener's comment on Ryan hypocrisy toward the stimulus -- it would seem the perfect example for political compromise. If Ryan is to represent his constituents, then should he not then support actions like the stimulus based on the benefits it will bring to his district, as oppose to opposing it publicly solely on ideological ground, while behind the scenes looking to benefit from it politically? Is this not the penultimate example of political hypocrisy?

Oct. 12 2012 10:52 AM
Michelle

Biden did what he needed to do- re energize the base. His facial expressions were great,at least I thought so because you could see his genuine reaction. Also all of Biden's personal stories came across as very natural whereas Ryan's seemed extremely forced in comparison. That definitely served to show who is a more relatable

Oct. 12 2012 10:50 AM
Janet from NYC

All this talk about Biden's demeanor is a Republican push-back and the media is mindlessly feeding it to make a story. Never mind that Biden had facts to counter Ryan's lies, that Biden was animated and feisty as was Mitt Romney who drew praises for it...When I listen to your callers who didn't like it, I hear in their comments that they were already committed Republican voters and they are just mad that their guy couldn't stand up to facts. I think the media needs to be more responsible about what it reports and blows up as a story, including this, and including you Brian Lehrer.

Oct. 12 2012 10:50 AM
Vanessa from Prospect Heights

No one remembers (except Gloria Steinem) that the Catholic Church not only supported but regulated abortions until Pope Gregory made a deal with Napoleon III who was running out of cannon fodder to make it a sin (in return for support for the doctrine of papal infallibility and all the teaching positions in France!)
Doesn't anyone remember that the church had no interest in infants who weren't baptized??? That is when 'ensoulment' occurred, without which they were trash, and couldn't be buried in a churchyard!
Expediency, & control, that is what it is all about.

Oct. 12 2012 10:50 AM
Bob from Westchester, NY

To Callers Terry, Joel, et l: Why is it OK for Romney to aggressively cut off President Obama in debate, but NOT for Biden to go after Ryan for questionable assertions? When did Republican leaders become such weaklings? They show no respect for the office of the President, but sound like kids whining to their mothers because they didn't get their way every time someone refuses to accept their world view.

Oct. 12 2012 10:50 AM
Jim from nj

To the caller that said Ryan was only doing his "job" in responding to a constituent's request for stimulus.
I live in N.J., Gov Chrisite is about to turn down funding under Obamacare that would give 245,000 people in NJ healthcare who don't have it now. AS ONE OF THE 245,000 I SAY, GOV CHRISTIE DO YOUR JOB and give so I and my fellow 245,000 citizens of N.J can be provided healthcare.

Oct. 12 2012 10:48 AM
metabolic from BK

Let's not forget that Biden wasn't simply making a point of hypocrisy regarding the stimulus; but also a lightning quick rebuttal against Ryan's claims of cronyism against the Obama administration.
Ill be dam the last time a congressman wrote the Vice President on my behalf requesting grant money!

Oct. 12 2012 10:48 AM
Tony from Brooklyn

Biden has every right to be derisive! Ryan wasn't just stating a different opinion in most cases, he was misleading the public by stretching the truth and lying

Oct. 12 2012 10:46 AM
Roger from New York

Those who say that Biden lost this debate because he smiled too much really need to examine their own ability to assess content vs. style. Is this why the voting public makes so many poor, uninformed choices? If Ryan was appealing because he was calm, then I suppose Obama, not Romney, was the obvious winner of his first debate! This sort of reaction runs counter to intelligent thinking.

Oct. 12 2012 10:46 AM

Biden was condescending??

My 5th grader would have been condescending with an "opponent" like Ryan!

PATHETIC!

Oct. 12 2012 10:45 AM
John Michael

This is rich. The people that are wired to think like the Right are complaining about Biden's interruptions. They are accusing Biden of the very same tactics they use consistently.

Oct. 12 2012 10:44 AM
Tom from UWS

Let's back up here: Ryan did not oppose the stimulus in 2008; he was a vocal proponent and was instrumental in getting the GOP votes needed to pass it.

Oct. 12 2012 10:44 AM
Amy from Manhattan

Brian, I appreciate your questioning that caller's generalizing about women & men as moderators!

Oct. 12 2012 10:43 AM
carolita from NYC

I enjoyed it when, after Ryan mentioned "Bibi," as if he had a right to nickname a head of state already, Biden proceeded to say "Bibi" about twenty times, as if to say, "Oh, you wanna say Bibi? Well, I can say "Bibi," too, whippersnapper!" That was very good, and subtle (in a not subtle way) of Biden. No one was expecting Biden to be a pillar of dignity and manners, you know. He was being himself, and no one wanted any less from him, except Republicans. Ryan had a nerve trying to slap him down with "I know you're under duress...," if you want to talk about disrespect. That's not how you talk to a VPOTUS.

Oct. 12 2012 10:43 AM

@gotnotruck Other news agencies (european, world) have been saying that the CIA has armed and trained "rebels" in Syria for months...

Oct. 12 2012 10:43 AM

Statesman vs. Weenie

Oct. 12 2012 10:41 AM

I didn't like Biden's style last night, but I liked his substance. The problem with Ryan is that too many people know about his "budget" and how harmful it would be to taxpayers. Interestingly, Newsweek had an editorial about how bad the Romney/Ryan would be for the "less rich" - people who make $100K-$300K. The Ryan budget would reduce and eliminate many of the deductions taken by that group of upper income earners, resulting in a huge increase in taxes for them. Again, the only group of people who benefit from a Romney/Ryan tax cut plan are people making above $300K.

Oct. 12 2012 10:40 AM
JMD from Westchester

Great cup of Joe this morning!

Oct. 12 2012 10:40 AM

I LOVE this caller Chris!!!

Oct. 12 2012 10:39 AM

Both Ryan and Biden said we will not allow Iran to get a weapon...both are saying war.
there is no differences between the 2 tickets.

Oct. 12 2012 10:39 AM

My post - Obama - debate disheartened self was thrilled with Biden's performance. But, did it accomplish anything in terms of gaining that absurd "independent" undecided votesr? I hope so, but I despair.

Oct. 12 2012 10:39 AM

The WEENIE had his pathetic equivocating ass handed to him with a bow on!!

Oct. 12 2012 10:38 AM

Did I hear Biden say we're already sending weapons to Syrian fighters?

Oct. 12 2012 10:38 AM
sanych

Carter - Iranian Revolution.

Obama - Arab Spring.

The parallels are obvious.

Oct. 12 2012 10:37 AM
Larry from Brooklyn

While I was not too happy about the obvious exasperation shown by Biden, I can understand it. He is asking them what would they do in Iran or Syria... Romney/Ryan sure do sound like they want war but Ryan kept trying to deflect it. I thought the line about Ryan asking for stimulus dollars was perfect as was the point that R/R's statements about the Obama/Netanyahu relationship are unfounded.

Oct. 12 2012 10:37 AM
MikeInBrklyn from Clinton Hill

I the viewer assess the debate on substance instead trivialities like laughter and smirks, then the choice should be quite clear.

Obama better not drop the ball Biden passed to him last night and show up acting light a boy scout and presidential at the next debate. It is time to put these jokers away by constantly punching them in the nose with the big lies they are peddling.

Oct. 12 2012 10:37 AM
John A.

Yeah, Joe's a Slugger, called shot and all.
I do feel that the lies go fast and loose in these debates, but if Joe is up to his waist in them, Ryan and company are in over their neck.

Oct. 12 2012 10:37 AM

I got IT!!

Biden / Warren for 2012!!

Oct. 12 2012 10:36 AM
Walter

Why is Beian having this right-wing shill on his show? The WSJ edit page lies every day! The rich are riding higher than ever, that's clear as day, there's no argument! Brian is just not up to the job of countering the lies of these right wing tools.

Oct. 12 2012 10:35 AM

LOVE THE JOE!!

Oct. 12 2012 10:34 AM
Randi from Brooklyn

Mr. Moore makes the same incorrect analysis. Its true that the rich pay most of the taxes, BUT they are increasingly paying a small percentage of their income on taxes. The increasingly amount of people who are recording income as "capital gains" are paying only 15% of their income on taxes. Yet the majority of people that record income as "wages" are paying 20%-35%. This is the big problem.

Oct. 12 2012 10:33 AM
Leo from Queens

NO COMPANY pays the 35% tax rate. your guests comments are nothing but Malerky!.

President Obama has a proposal (Which Republicans wont approve) to lower that Corporate tax rate while removing some of the loop holes currently being abused by these corporations - including the tax incentives to ship jobs overseas.

Oct. 12 2012 10:33 AM
MikeInBrklyn from Clinton Hill

This guest from the WSJ, like other Republicans have a bad case of amnesia. One that allows them to erase the devastating contributing effect of Republican policies toward the great recession. How can anyone take these people seriously?

And BTW, I like that Biden showed emotional reaction to the malarkey that Ryan was trying to peddle.

Oct. 12 2012 10:30 AM
raphael from brooklyn

Re Steven Bohr: the thing is those companies he says pay 35%, most of them don't pay 35%! They find loopholes.

Oct. 12 2012 10:29 AM
Truth & Beauty from Brooklyn

This Stephen Moore is SO full of crap! How does he include corporate tax in someone's individual income tax? Income is income and capital gains should be taxed as regular income, not a 15% gift from the poorest Americans to the richest Americans. I earned less than $30,000 last year and paid a higher income tax rate than Mitt Romney. I find Mr. Moore's inability to understand how that is unfair completely insane.

Oct. 12 2012 10:29 AM
RLewis

These guests are supposed to be helpful??? This is the worst of msnbc and fox in one segment. I listen to wnyc because I expect them to be better than this. Brain, this is one of your worst days ever.

Oct. 12 2012 10:29 AM

Please explain to your WSJ speaker that Romney does not pay a 35% CHQ Tax. Bain Capital is a "pass-thru" organization, which means they pay NO TAX and PASS THROUGH their gains/losses to their investors (partners) who are taxed at their personal rate, which in Romney's case turned out to be 14%. He is distorting the truth.

Oct. 12 2012 10:29 AM
JMD from Westchester

Biden did a great job of preventing Ryan from adding the Republican "spin" on the issues, even if he did have to interrupt to accomplish it. Ryan sounded like he was reading from a handbook for politicians while Biden seemed to be speaking from the heart.

Oct. 12 2012 10:29 AM
April from Manhattan

Was I hallucinating or did Biden say we, America, are already giving weapons to Syrian freedom fighters?

Oct. 12 2012 10:29 AM
oscar from ny

Race shouldnt be a factor, i think our differences shouldve been settled this century. What does bother me is this discussion about taxes and how presidential hopeful romney singles 47% of americans out. Why doesnt somebody do something about this, in school when were little they teach us sex education they gives us day after pills, condoms, hitler, if taxes are a mojor contribution to this society than they should start teaching us all the basics how to manuver the taxes, taxes should be personilized so ppl wont acuse us of beign bums.

Oct. 12 2012 10:28 AM
sanych

@john from office

Ryan is a fitness freak - he is all muscle. If he and Biden ended up in one jail cell, old Joe would be sleeping near a toilet.

Oct. 12 2012 10:28 AM
Robert from NYC

No, incomes have come down since and because of Ronald Reagan's administration. Incomes have decreased over the past 30 years not just within the past 4 years. Call him on this Brian.

Oct. 12 2012 10:28 AM
Rich Perez

If your guest moves any more to the right, the Earth wilt tilt more. He thinks the working poor should pay some income tax even if they can't make ends meet? The income gap is somehow the fault of Obama and not a larger trend that's been occurring since since the 60's? This guy has little credibility with me, but as a liberal it's comforting to see how tenuous his arguments are.

Oct. 12 2012 10:28 AM
ethan from bk

your guest claims that the top 1% pays 40% of taxes? doesn't look that way to me...

http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2012/04/who_pays_taxes_in_america.php

Oct. 12 2012 10:27 AM
meesh

included are the richest people that pay NOT TAXES!!!

Oct. 12 2012 10:26 AM
dorothy from croton-on-hudson

Why are so many people condemning Biden for being condescending and too aggressive? Consider Romney's behavior during the Presidential debate; Romney was a bully and condescending to Lerher, e.g., "I even like you, Jim." Nobody condemned him for his behavior, which was even worse in my opinion!

Oct. 12 2012 10:26 AM

He forgets who said it? What bs!
Income is taxed twice through out the system. What cheese!

Oct. 12 2012 10:26 AM
Thomas Pinch

Stephen, keep plugging your book. You could care less about Ryan or Romney, the debate or the election. What a shill!

Oct. 12 2012 10:25 AM
Ann Britt from Tuckahoe NY

WAIT!!! The WNYC announcement omitted VP Biden's response to Paul Ryan's "zinger". Biden responded "Yes, but I MEAN what I say!" meaning he doesn't always artfully say something, but he is certainly not discounting 47% of the citizens of this country.

Oct. 12 2012 10:25 AM
Rick Firstman

Brian, you just said the CBS post-debate poll had Ryan winning the debate by 20 points. It was actually BIDEN on top by that margin! (For what it's worth.)

Oct. 12 2012 10:24 AM
Seth Pickenstiff

Stephen, "50 or 100 dollars" - yes, that'll fix everything. weak! very weak.

Oct. 12 2012 10:24 AM
Amy from Manhattan

The way Rep. Ryan characterized "unelected judges" made me wonder what he thinks *is* the role of the courts. It sounded as if he thought judges should never overturn "the will of the people," as expressed through legislatures & referenda, so, what, they're not supposed to decide if those laws are consistent w/the federal or state constitutions or w/conflicting laws?

Oct. 12 2012 10:24 AM
Leo from queens

The Republicans CUT funding for the State Department security. So the Republicans are partially to blame. THough again, this was a mistake and it was not a result of malice on the part of the administration.

Also, we need to take into account that Republicans were complaining about our involvement in Libya and having US military personnel protecting our diplomats (Despite Republican cuts) would have caused Republicans to complain as well

Oct. 12 2012 10:23 AM
Jean Simeon from FiDi

The CBS poll has Biden winning by almost 20%.

Oct. 12 2012 10:19 AM

I really loved how Martha framed the economic crisis as a "National Security Issue." I have been wondering why I never hear that from anyone. I loved her! She won the Debate in my mind...

Oct. 12 2012 10:18 AM
Roger from New York

I was stunned to see this morning that some polls indicate Ryan "won" the debate - not the debate I watched! This was a stark contrast between a man and a boy: experience and savvy vs. simple, shallow thinking. Biden was confident and extremely well-informed. Ryan was uneasy and lacking in facts. He was on shaky ground on Afghanistan and Iran and failed to substantiate the Romney tax plan. Last week, Obama clearly flunked his first debate while Romney won on style and assertion. Biden's victory was convincing for anyone who has a degree of objectivity and knowledge of the issues.

Oct. 12 2012 10:18 AM
Christine from Westchester

Wait: now we're blaming the embassy attack in Libya on the Republicans too? Never mind the big cover up by the president and company and attempt to blame it all on the video. Now we're saying it's the Republicans fault? Pathetic.

Oct. 12 2012 10:17 AM
john from office

Biden treated Ryan like the jail house punk that he is. Joe took the top bunk!, if you know what I mean. Tore Ryan a new one!!!!

Hope Ryan and Adelson end up in the same jail cell, should be interesting.

Oct. 12 2012 10:14 AM
RLewis

Katrina, you make me so sad to be a democrat. Is it not possible for you to analzye something without being so partisan?? "War on Women" - you sound like the anti-Bill O'Reilly. Unfortunate. Bad choice of guest for this, Brian.

Oct. 12 2012 10:12 AM
sanych

Throughout the debate Biden behaved like a bully.

He continuously interrupted Ryan and would not let him talk.

As far as I am concerned, the debate was over when he started to ask voters to "trust" him and Obama.

Oct. 12 2012 10:10 AM
Hugh Sansom

"Somnambulent President Obama" -- best one-word characterization I've heard.

Oct. 12 2012 10:08 AM
The Truth from Becky

Paul Ryan needs to get checked for diabetes...was sipping waaaay too much water! or that was his way to cover up lies.

Oct. 12 2012 10:08 AM
Seth Pickenstiff

Biden just knows too much for Ryan to be competitive. If something bad happended, I could see Joe in the #1 slot, and just hope he doesn't say too much. But the idea of lil' Ryan being thrust into the presidency would be really scarey. I can't vote for that.

Oct. 12 2012 10:06 AM
The Truth from Becky

Way to go Joe! Flawless execution!

Paul Ryan - still no details.

Oct. 12 2012 10:04 AM
fuva from harlemworld

Seems to me that OBiden still needs to better articulate an overarching anti-plutocracy theme and vision for the way forward. I'm wondering why this is so apparently difficult for them.

Oct. 12 2012 10:02 AM
Rich P from Long Island

I almost felt sorry for Ryan, but gave him credit for going into the lion's den. It wasn't so much that that Ryan was that bad as much as Biden was that good.

Oct. 12 2012 09:46 AM
Truth & Beauty from Brooklyn

Unfortunately, I had a class last night, so I missed the debate. I hope you'll provide a condensed recap. Thanks.

Oct. 12 2012 09:38 AM
Sheldon from Brooklyn

I thought Ryan held serve but Biden got some punches in.

Oct. 12 2012 09:30 AM
RCT from NYC

Great job, Joe. Biden had to show that Democrats could not be pushed around and that he and President Obama, not Romney and Ryan, could be trusted to protect Medicare and the economic interests of the middle-class. His demeanor was perfect for what needed to be achieved. He had the facts; he was in the room when policy had been made; and he made sure that Ryan and everyone else knew that.

The voters who needed to be convinced, or at least stopped from settling on Romney, heard what they needed to hear. Joe did his job last night; no voters in Ohio were lost as the result of last night's debate, and some may have been reassured.

Two saves for Obama, from two older men: Clinton gave him his September bounce, and Joe stopped his October slide. The ball is now in Obama's hands. We'll find out if he can run with it. He's done a great job, but needs to let everyone know that he cannot be run down -- particularly by a vulture capitalists intent on closing a deal.

Oct. 12 2012 08:29 AM
Ed from Larchmont

They're both Catholic so they had some trouble being really hard on each other, which is OK.

Oct. 12 2012 05:56 AM

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