Streams

Media Manipulator

Tuesday, July 24, 2012

Ryan Holiday, media strategist, director of marketing at American Apparel and the author of Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator, shares his insights on how to publicize and market using new media tools.

Guests:

Ryan Holiday
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Comments [15]

stan from queens

of sll the segments during which you DID NOT TAKE PHONE CALLS...this one cried out for challenge and discussion with an adversarial, experienced journalist.

Jul. 24 2012 11:39 PM
gary from queens

Dear Thatgirl,

thanks for reply. I think immunocal could say it cures this or that on its own website. they can provide the evidence as they see it. but they don't. why? because people or the FDA would sue them.

my point is that this chills free speech and we should oppose it. Obama can lie and no one sues him. immunocal can lie and they get sued. this is wrong. it should be protected speech and let the buyer beware. just like politics.

that's my point

Jul. 24 2012 09:41 PM
will

I've enjoyed this show a since I started listening a few months ago. I find to be a refreshing change of pace from most of the nonsense that passes for reportage in the main stream media. (so called liberal media) But I was really surprised by the reflexive false equivalency you handed out during the interview with Ryan Holiday. Its a theme I hear more and more when describing the nature of politics on the right. It can best be described as "both side do it." It came when you began talking about dishonesty in media for political reasons. You mention Breitbart.com which is rightly notorious for fabricating lies about liberals and the Democratic party. And then you compare it to a group called the "Yes Men." Which prior to this discussion I've never even heard of. I had to Google them just to find out what they were and I'm a political junkie. The idea that this is somehow the same as Breitbart is ridiculous. No one gets their political information the Yes Men. Powerful members of one our two political parties do not grant interviews the Yes Men(even after the lies have been exposed). The Yes Men did not smear the name of Shirley Sherrod or fabricate lies about ACORN or try to burglarize the office of a U.S. senator. The Yes Men are not part of what most Americans would consider the news media in this country. Breitbart feeds false political information to its willing readers which then gets picked up by Fox and other news outlets and it affects our political discourse. Badly.
The comparison sounded like a desperate attempt at seeming balanced for your conservative listeners. And thats the problem. It allows cover for the members of the GOP and its voters to hide behind when their confronted with how dishonest conservative media has become.
The truth is that there is no equivalent liberal media outlet that behaves this way or has the reach of right wing media or the acceptance and embrace of the Democratic party.
I'll continue to listen because I think this was the rare exception to what is other wise an excellent program.

Jul. 24 2012 07:14 PM
Mark Simchock from New Jersey

Respectfully, many of the comments here are missing the point. That point is, information - much like it's great grand parent, the financial markets - is subject to manipulation by anyone with the power and motivation to do so. Or as it was said in Dune, "He who controls the Spice controls the universe."

It seem to me there is a direct correlation between the increase in Orwell's genius and Moore's Law (as a barometer for technology's intrusion into the human condition).

Jul. 24 2012 02:34 PM
thatgirl from manhattan

gary - immunocal can advertise all they like; they just can't make unfounded claims about the supplement's performance. it's not a simple matter of the FDA--network television, print, and other media don't want the liability of running a promotion that makes unfounded health claims. even when clinical trials back up a product, the media can question the means by which a company communicates it on their "real estate." this isn't any "authority" but merely their right to avoid liability.

the FDA does not regulate supplements, so even a pharma company that makes a vitamin is restricted from making such claims. one could argue that pharma had lobbied them sufficiently over the years, but pharma produces plenty of non-Rx therapies, so imagine the benefits they'd reap if the FDA did regulate their products.

net: you actually benefit from this therapy being available for purchase and not subject to regulation. by the way "cure" is a loaded word. it usually implies complete and permanent eradication of a condition. if you notice, not even pharma can use the word any more in paid "speech."

Jul. 24 2012 12:31 PM
John A

BTW Hedges on this week's Moyers pins the rise of Self and fragmentation in America with the rise of Marketing (Madison Avenue) post-WWI. Don't know that I follow, yet, but could the two evils indeed be related? I'm still looking.

Jul. 24 2012 11:35 AM
Amy from Manhattan

I agree w/Priya. Could Mr. Holiday comment on the verging (& sometimes more than verging)-on-soft-core-porn ads for American Apparel?

Jul. 24 2012 10:58 AM
Misty

My female writer colleagues have noticed a seemingly new wave of outlandish hate speech in online publications, just to attract clicks--"link magnets."

Jul. 24 2012 10:57 AM
The Truth from Becky

...and people laughed when Michael Jackson said "you can't trust the media, they are liars"...interesting.

Jul. 24 2012 10:56 AM
kurt from Manhattan

I think he is overestimating his guerilla ad campaign for I Hope the Serve Beer in Hell. Th movie grossed $1,429,299 domestically.

Jul. 24 2012 10:55 AM

Ha! Asking the marketing director from American Apparel if something is sexist.....

Jul. 24 2012 10:52 AM
MichaelB from Morningside Heights

... and lots of people will go to see the Batman movie because of the notoriety of what happened in Aurora, CO....

The media is gullible (because they are always hyping the "new" and edgy stuff, to fulfill their own "gawkishness") and the public will slavishly follow whatever the media throws out there -- as new & edgy.

Jul. 24 2012 10:52 AM
Jeff Pappas from Dumbo

Any Doctor is supposed to be up on new medicines and they are supposed to ask you about any other medicines you take. To let Drug companies Advertise seems unnec. and even irresponsible due to stated facts above

And BTW Joeseph Goebles the Nazi was the founder of modern Advertising / Propaganda. The Truth is left in the shadows, waiting to be uncovered.
Using Fear , manipulation and " Keeping up with the Jones" has left our culture blinded by whats important, and this being a Presidential election year, well the mud has rocks in it this time....

Jul. 24 2012 10:24 AM
Priya from Brooklyn

American Apparel emphasizes that their clothes are made in fair labor circumstances, however Dov Charney's reputation of being sexually provocative (to put it mildly), a sexual predator (to put it more strongly) brings into question the company's ethics. Fair labor practice should also mean a workplace that is free of sexual harassment. Frankly it is this reputation that has kept me, a woman and consumer, away from your products. Of course sex sells, but American Apparel takes it a little too far in my view.

Also your store on Court Street in Brooklyn Heights keeps their front door open while blasting the AC, I believe this is against the law in NYC. You should do something about that!

Jul. 24 2012 10:19 AM
gary from queens

I'm sure there's no vital need for most products we buy. And the stuff that Ryan Holiday presented to the public may not be what courts would call "protected speech" (political speech). But it is important speech that should not be restricted by regulations that require "evidence." Because often what constitutes "evidence" as defined by the "authorities" (i.e. government) is subjective, or else it doesn't fit into the cookie cutter template established by "those who know best."

Last year, for example, after limping for 5 years and in constant pain from plantar faciitis---inflammation of the tendon at the bottom of the foot---I cured myself completely by taking Immunocal (a glutathion supplement) for 3 months.

This product apparently cures many ailments, if you believe the testimonials from googling the product name. Even medical studies. But the manufacturer of Immunocal itself cannot make such claims, because the "authorities" have medical requirements that are too rigorous and costly for any company (except big pharma) to justify.

If a Exxon now has as much free speech rights as the Sierra Club on political issues, why do we not extend those rights to products and services and let the buyer beware (i.e. investigate the product on their own and keep government censorship out of it).

Had Immunocal been able to advertise what many people knew about this product, maybe I would have not suffered from this ailment for so long.

Jul. 24 2012 09:44 AM

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