Streams

Mississippi's Abortion Clinic Law

Wednesday, July 18, 2012

Lissy Moskowitz, general counsel for NARAL Pro-Choice America, explains developments in the Mississippi law, what it means for the state's only abortion clinic, and how it mirrors battles elsewhere in the US.

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Lissy Moskowitz
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Comments [30]

Ed from Larchmont

Inquisigal from Brooklyn - that was an interesting insight. It's not taking into account scientific knowledge, etc., but interesting. At eight weeks the fetus is far more developed than you imply.

Not interested in more babies per se, but against killing ones already conceived. And the onus for their welfare is first and foremost on the father, who owes the woman in justice support and safety, and is responsible too.

Jul. 20 2012 07:50 AM
John A.

Henry,
I'm suggesting that people who are ignorant to what is alive or dead will be willfully ignorant enough to support abortions in the third trimester, after all what's the problem? That would be a barbarity. BTW I also see these children getting confused as to when murder of a peer is permissible, possibly from the influence of the show "Dexter". There are other problems regarding the usefulness of drugs in everyday life and even how worshiping Satan somehow is not a religion and therefore cool.
But please don't label all prolifers as typical conservatives, some like me are liberals just looking out for a healthy society (and finding less and less it might seem).

Jul. 19 2012 10:57 AM
Henry from Manhattan

David from Fredericksburg, VA wrote:
“You mean my observation left you feeling unsettled?”
No, I told you that I was unfazed.

unfazed: to not disturb the composure of

David from Fredericksburg, VA wrote:
“An observation is "hysterics"? I also find it interesting you choose to introduce the term fanatical in this context.”

Yes. You are responding with hysterics. You sound fanatical. Your beliefs regarding “unborn babies” are uncanny.

hysteria : behavior exhibiting overwhelming or unmanageable fear or emotional excess

fanatic: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion

uncanny: seeming to have a supernatural character or origin

Definitions provided courtesy of Merriam Webster. The keywords above being “overwhelming fear,” “emotional excess,” “uncritical,” and “supernatural” (i.e. religious in nature).

If you do not want to hold a coherent discussion and rather chose to make glib allusions to Hitler, bear in mind his speechmaking relied on similar rhetorical practices that you have already demonstrated.

Jul. 18 2012 07:16 PM
Henry from Manhattan

John A. wrote:
“What I have seen in the blogs of children 15-25, is that the vocal majority no longer regard a fetus as even alive - the delicate arguments about personhood have gotten lost at that age. Something I regard as a disgrace to our culture.”

Sounds more like intelligent young adults, the kinds that would endeavor to blog, have applied critical thinking skills and are rejecting superstitions that facilitate “delicate arguments” about personhood. The phrasing “delicate arguments” is spot on, as they are easily damaged or broken with a trifle of evidence and reason.

This same young demographic is likely less racist, less misogynist, less homophobic, and less xenophobic, than previous generations as well. Something I regard as long overdue progress to our culture, but there is still plenty more work to be done.

I understand that quite a few conservatives reject such notions of progress as it’s antithetical to “the way things used to be” (a utopia that never was), so naturally, that’s where fundamental disagreement arises and actually has a lot less to do with caring about the alleged welfare of “unborn babies.”

Jul. 18 2012 07:10 PM
David from Fredericksburg, VA

@ Henry from Manhattan

An observation is "hysterics"? I also find it interesting you choose to introduce the term fanatical in this context.

"uncanny beliefs"?
You mean my observation left you feeling unsettled? That's probably a good thing. One should never be completely comfortable in their fanatical stands.

Jul. 18 2012 04:56 PM
Mitch Horn from Bedford NY

Just a brief Google search of Hospitals in the Jackson area shows that the majority of the facilities are either owned by the State, or are owned by religious organization, who, if I'm not mistaken, can deny admitting privileges based solely on Theology.
And then of course there is the Possibility of any Hospital that would grant the privileges having funds withheld by the State if indeed a doctor who performs the procedure actually had a complication and had to admit someone and finish the process on the Hospital grounds, thereby labeling the Hospital as an "Abortion Facility." And the difference again between "Christian Law" and "Sharia Law" is?

Jul. 18 2012 04:21 PM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

John A,

There are anti abortion groups that also fight for the child's life after they are born? Where's the billboards? Where's the signs in the front yards? Where's the advertisements in the subway? Wheres the TV commercial Superbowl ads? Sorry, I don't see the movement publicly caring about the born child. I don't see them lobbying our government for more and better born children rights. I only see them caring about the unborn child. That includes outside the "liberal media". Try driving through the Midwest or deep south and you will quickly see what I mean.... You don't see "save our foster care kids" signs posted in peoples front yards. But you do see "save a unborn fetus" signs posted in peoples front yards..... What good do those signs do for the starving and abused foster care kid that we all to often hear about?

Jul. 18 2012 01:06 PM
John A.

Jon Pope,
There are organizations that collect and donate to the care of not aborted children. "make no effort to protect the child"? It's hardly that.
-
Other comments regarding personhood. What I have seen in the blogs of children 15-25, is that the vocal majority no longer regard a fetus as even alive - the delicate arguments about personhood have gotten lost at that age. Something I regard as a disgrace to our culture.

Jul. 18 2012 12:42 PM
Henry from Manhattan

@ David from Fredericksburg, VA

“Unborn babies are not people...why does this sound familiar?”
“Oh, yes, Hitler started out by classifying the Jews as less than human...hmm.”

Your hysterics leave me unfazed and you only serve to undermine your own position with such fanatical comparisons.

If you are attempting to persuade anyone to entertain your uncanny beliefs, you are going about it in a very poor fashion.

Jul. 18 2012 12:34 PM
Inquisigal from Brooklyn

Ed from Larchmont and jgarbuz....your hyper-dramatic language regarding abortions is simply uninformed and incorrect. Abortions are not, when done within a reasonable time frame - "killing a child" or "infanticide." I'm going to go out on a limb here and describe to you what an abortion looks like after the procedure is finished: the matter that is removed from a woman's body - if she gets an abortion at 6 weeks or under - looks like a particularly heavy period, with maybe a blood clot here and there. That's it.

If you want to know why many women do not have a problem having an abortion, it's because the matter that is removed during the procedure looks like what happens to us every month, for 40+ years of our lives. No amount of guilt talking and religious pressure could ever make me - and many other women - believe that some incredibly small, unformed cells and minor blood clots removed from our bodies is "killing." What's next, telling us our periods are "infanticide?"

I'm so tired of this illogical argument against abortion, and fetishizing children and giving birth. If you two want more babies in the world so badly, maybe you should instead direct your advocacy toward science that will allow men to get pregnant!

Jul. 18 2012 11:38 AM
Jon from Hempstead on the LI

Ms Moskowitz claimed that MS "overwhelmingly" voted down (or rejected) the State's proposed "personhood" amendment.

Is that correct? Did she provide any source or statistic to support her assertion?

I lived in MS as a child, and while I was impressed that the measure was defeated my recollection is that it was a pretty close outcome.

Jul. 18 2012 11:33 AM
David from Fredericksburg, VA

@ Henry from Manhattan

Unborn babies are not people...why does this sound familiar?

Oh, yes, Hitler started out by classifying the Jews as less than human...hmm.

Jul. 18 2012 11:31 AM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

How come I never see anti abortion folks demanding and marching for way overdue foster care reforms where 1000's of kids in the system are abused and outright neglected and in some cases even murdered by their care givers? How come I never here about them lobbying congress to reform and improve our adoption system where 1000's of babies and kids go un-adopted year after year? Why is it that they claim a child's unborn life is so important yet they make no effort to protect the child once its born? Where's all the billboards saying "We need to save abused foster kids from the foster care system"? I'm sure you've herd it before but it seems like a fetus has a million friends until its born.

Jul. 18 2012 11:29 AM
Hanry from Manhattan

“I tend to think that, in privileged communities around Mississippi, there are doctors offices and clinics where people with the right amount of money can quietly get an abortion.”

I think you are right Edward from NJ.

Again, conservative/religious-right motivations leave the less privileged out in the cold.

Jul. 18 2012 11:11 AM
Henry from Manhattan

Abortion does not equal infanticide. For those making such comments, please refrain from such hyperbole.

You are welcome to your religious, faiths-based convictions, but realize that not everyone is required to share your belief in your flavor of metaphysics.

Jul. 18 2012 11:08 AM
Edward from NJ

I tend to think that, in privileged communities around Mississippi, there are doctors offices and clinics where people with the right amount of money can quietly get an abortion.

Jul. 18 2012 11:04 AM
David from Fredericksburg, VA

Re the final comment as to why the hospital has not given admitting privileges to the doctors.

Come on, if you're going to intimate the hospital is playing games, know what you're talking about. The doctors without admitting privileges don't even reside in the state. Most hospitals require doctors to take ER call in order to have privileges there. This is hardly a secret - and the NARAL clown in obviously either incredibly ignorant or just plain lying.

Jul. 18 2012 11:03 AM
Gwen from Tribeca

The preamble for the Constitution reads:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I'd say a woman being able to protect her health be it physical, mental and make family choices for herself would be "Promoting the general Welfare".

Jul. 18 2012 11:00 AM

Anything that lessens or eliminates abortion entirely gets my wholehearted support. It's time to end this infanticidal bloodshed once and for all.

Jul. 18 2012 10:59 AM
Henry from Manhattan

Back-alley abortions will return to Mississippi if it isn’t happening already.

Jul. 18 2012 10:59 AM
BK from NJ

Just because a doctor doesn't have admitting privileges has no effect whatsoever on whether a patient in need of emergency care could be admitted. It just means that a different doctor would be caring for the woman in a hospital in case of complications.
Many doctors choose not to see patients in the hospital, as instead leave their care to hospitalists (doctors on ful time staff at hospital). This law is obviously an end run around Roe v Wade. Maybe officials in MS should worry about other things- like being at te bottom of many lists like education quality, health quality, racism, etc before they force women to have children (and then deny those same women prenatal care they might receive at a place like Planned Parenthood).

Jul. 18 2012 10:57 AM
MrD from Nyc

What does Admitting Privledge mean. Why doesn't a hospital provide this to the clinic?

Jul. 18 2012 10:57 AM
John A

I'm sorry, what's keeping the abortion clinincs from reaching back to an admissions compliance? Are they able to step up to the standard or are those standards created to be impossible to meet?

Jul. 18 2012 10:56 AM
Alex from NJ from NJ

I'm confused when people say this clinic is the only place in the state for abortions. Can't women get abortion care AT hospitals?

Jul. 18 2012 10:56 AM
Ed from Larchmont

Where a woman can kill her child.

Jul. 18 2012 10:55 AM
Hugh Sansom

Seems like there's a clear parallel with GOP-driven voter ID laws that, as NPR reported this morning, may leave voters unable to get ID because they can't afford the fees, can't take time off from work to visit, can't travel the distance to visit, or just can't schedule (because the government ID facility is only open once per month).

Jul. 18 2012 10:54 AM
fuva from harlemworld

It's the sponsor of the law who explicitly said this would end abortions in Miss.

Jul. 18 2012 10:53 AM
Ed from Larchmont

Many of the clinics around the country that have been closed - forget complications - are unsanitary and disgusting. One wouldn't have one's hair cut there. What about a clinic like that?

Jul. 18 2012 10:53 AM
Nancy

Brian, why can't the Mississippi abortion clinic get a doctor WITH admitting privileges?

Jul. 18 2012 10:53 AM
Ed from Larchmont

The Mississippi clinic is being shut down because it's badly run and in terrible shape first, as I understand. (It's Doe v. Bolton that made it accessible. Roe didn't make it legal, it made it non-criminal.)

Jul. 18 2012 10:50 AM

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