Streams

Inside Israel's Intelligence Services

Monday, July 09, 2012

CBS News correspondent Dan Raviv tells the history of Israel's intelligence services—led by the Mossad—from the country's independence in 1948 to the current regional crises. Spies Against Armageddon: Inside Israel's Secret Wars examines the challenges and innovative solutions of Israel's intelligence services.

Guests:

Dan Raviv

Comments [36]

Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

jason zenith from washington DCA,

FYI, Your side lost WW2 and signed papers of unconditional surrender.

It was in all the papers.

WW2 Victory in Europe Day: Beaten Nazis Sign Historic Surrender (1945)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFFEKPIB0J8

Jul. 17 2012 04:42 PM
jason zenith from washington DCA

Dan Raviv, Israeli agent of influence in the U.S. media, did the expected. He absurdly tried to deflect blame for Arafat's murder with polonium 210 (obtainable only from nuclear reactors) onto Russia! Russia isn't the one with the motive, or the one that hates Arafat. Watch the Aljazeera videos on this case. The Israelis (including Sharon and Olmert) were making thinly veiled death threats towards Arafat shortly before the hit. (And does the world need yet another propaganda tome glorifying the murderous secret police agency, Mossad?)
As for the attempt to sink the U.S.S. Liberty, insistently repeating a Big Lie (that it was an "accident") with a faux voice of authority doesn't make it true. To see what a big liar Raviv is, just read the book Assault on the Liberty, by James M. Ennes, Jr, who was an officer ON BOARD THE SHIP ON THE DAY OF THE BROAD DAYLIGHT ATTACK, which lasted several hours, was conducted by patrol boats and jets, and included attempts to kill the survivors. The U.S. Government, being a zombie-like slave to Israel, threatened the surviving sailors with long prison terms if they talked. (That's in the book too.)

Jul. 13 2012 03:31 PM
Peter Talbot from Harrison, NJ

A devotion to security as the primary raison d'etre of a state is echoed amongst all occupation powers in history: Israel shares this with apartheid. America has been headed in that direction since WWII. If Jews had not been so unfairly and systematically castigated for simply making a living throughout Europe since the crusades, the military occupation of the "new" Jerusalem might not have seemed so necessary to Herzl and his children. But the state of Israel exists as a fait accompli to everyone except the Palestinians, and carries the benefice of US alliance as proof of that shared view. The "two state solution", like the Balfour Declaration, seems to be drawing room policy more for political good will than reflective of any wide agreement as to future courses.

Israel takes pride in the Mossad and other highly secretive organs of hidden and proxy war, regardless of their theater of operations because security is paramount. And as long as security is paramount, criticism of means and ends will always be interpreted as aiding and abetting the ill-defined "enemy". And as long as security is paramount, the rights, dreams and freedoms of both Israeli citizens and every man, woman and child in the world may be proscribed for the good of the state. The fact that this may seem regrettable to the "just" is poor comfort to the dead, the disenfranchised and the duped. Understandibly, this is only collateral damage to wet ops personnel. There is no law that limits fear, and no international boundary respected by secret services in the employ of any country. I could pray for peace, but that seems almost childish in the age of Stuxnet. G-d bless us all.

Jul. 11 2012 02:13 PM

Words matter. A good place to start communicating well is to know commonly shared definitions, and their historical connotations. Apartheid refers to deliberate separation by race, in South Africa. If you know South African history, and you know the history of Israeli-Palestinian Arab relations, you know the difference. Yes, there is some discrimination against Arabs living in Israel, but they do have citizenship rights. Yes, Palestinian Arabs living in the West Bank do not have those rights, but their standard of living is much better than most Arabs. Someday, when they have leadership that Israel can negotiate with, and when secure and safe borders can be guaranteed for all, these people will have citizenship in their own state. Some people refer to the "apartheid wall" meaning the security wall that Israel has built. That's also incorrect. That wall has saved many lives. Its installation was not perfect, and the Israel Supreme Court has ruled against some of it.

Jul. 10 2012 04:24 PM
tom LI

To tigwil - So? Is there a due date for nationalism? Everyone who didn't seek it pre-19xx, cant ?

And are we really going to rely on definitions re; ghetto, etc...?

Its like art, you know if you're living in it!

Poverty is not something that can be defined many decades ago and considered moral and just to stick to it in the present under current conditions!

Jul. 09 2012 06:18 PM

Jennifer:

Palestinian nationalism isn't evident until the 20th cent., possibly as early as the 1930s or 40s, but probably later, in the 1960s.
See this article, “The Growth of Palestinian Arab Identity”, at http://www.mideastweb.org/palrevolt.htm which ends:

“Curiously, it seems that there was no movement after 1948 to establish a state, until Yasser Arafat assumed leadership of the Palestine Liberation Organization after 1968. The Palestine Liberation Organization had been founded in 1964, but it was founded under the aegis of pan-Arabist Nasserite Egypt, and its goal was to "liberate" the country of Palestine originally, but not necessarily to establish an independent state there.”

Also, check the definitions of the words apartheid and ghetto. You'll see that they do not apply to the treatment by the Israeli government of the people living in the West Bank.

Jul. 09 2012 04:26 PM
sanych

To the "humanists" - Dylan said it best:

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He’s the neighborhood bully

...

Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He’s the neighborhood bully

Jul. 09 2012 04:24 PM
Elaine from Baltimore

To Hugh Sansom:Re - "The war mentality in Israel today is far worse than it was 50 or 60 years ago."
Yes, that is true Hugh, thanks to 200,000 missiles aimed at Israel of which 60,000 are Hezbollah rockets and missiles - 10 times what it had in the 2006 Second Lebanon War. Gee... I wonder why Israel is concerned there may be another confrontation?

Jul. 09 2012 02:02 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

oscar, And here she is! Leela is her name. She used to have a show on Fox called "Futurama".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_%28Futurama%29

Jul. 09 2012 01:29 PM
oscar from ny

*
Israel needs to be careful now who they trust...they say they are the master of their fate...but they are riding on the beast (antichrist djaal...the one with only one eye)..and they will be treated as the harlot..

Jul. 09 2012

Jul. 09 2012 01:21 PM
jim green from Brooklyn, NY

The greatest threat to Israel is Israel. and If you don't agree with Israel then your a anti-Semitism, you need only look at the real history. something Israel will never do. Israels idea of truth is pure bullshit.

Jul. 09 2012 01:14 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

It is worth noting that this past Saturday was the seventh anniversary of the London transport (bus and underground) attacks, by British born "Asians", which resulted in the death of 52 people, excluding the 4 dead jihadis).

Jul. 09 2012 01:03 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Jennifer, brutal occupier of "Brooklyn" said:

"My god - People are anti Israel because of the way the Israeli's behave, as if they have rights that no one else does. It is not anti semitism not to approve of Israel. Just humanism."

Then are people anti Islamic because of the way Islamists behave - as if they have rights that no one else does?

It is not Islamophobic to disapprove of the actions of al qada, osama bin laden, Hamass, Hezbullah, Muslim Brotherhood?

Jul. 09 2012 12:59 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

Jennifer from Brooklyn, If you are not descended from Native Americans, ie. if you are a European, an African, an Asian, you are an OCCUPIER.

And are Spanish and Portuguese languages spoken in the Americans, languages that sprang forth from the indigenous population, or are they the result of CULTURAL IMPERIALISM from Europe???

Jul. 09 2012 12:56 PM
qwert9

30 minuets of enthusiastic colonial propaganda that’s where Leonard Lopate really shines.

Jul. 09 2012 12:49 PM
Jennifer from Brooklyn

My god - People are anti Israel because of the way the Israeli's behave, as if they have rights that no one else does. It is not anti semitism not to approve of Israel. Just humanism.

Jul. 09 2012 12:41 PM
Amy from Manhattan

The fact that there are some people Israel can't talk to on the Palestinian side doesn't mean there's no one they *can* talk to.

Jul. 09 2012 12:41 PM
Tom from Toronto

I'm sorry, but Mr. Raviv's style of speaking is extremely annoying. Its like he is talking to pre-schoolers.

Jul. 09 2012 12:37 PM

Yes, let Iran get the nukes and then let Iran sell some of its missiles to Cuba, and then we'll see how Americans will react to that!

We know what happened when the Soviets tried to station some missiles and nukes in Cuba! We nearly went to WWIII.

Jul. 09 2012 12:36 PM
Hugh Sansom

Missed a big chunk of the broadcast. Has anyone mentioned the stunning Mossad success in forging British passports? How about Mossad torture regimes? Mossad copying of US techniques in Central America, passing agents off as "the enemy," committing crimes under the guise of being "the enemy," and then blaming "the enemy"?

Jul. 09 2012 12:34 PM

To John of Office

Pollard has served already TWICE AS MUCH time as any other spy spying for a friendly power. Believe it or not, a spy from Greece got 14 years. Jonathan Pollard's LIFE SENTENCE is a total miscarriage of justice. Nobody else excet those spying directly for the Soviet Union ever got as long a sentence as Pollard!

Jul. 09 2012 12:33 PM

Why doesn't the U.S. release Jonathan Pollard? Isn't he the longest held prisoner?

Jul. 09 2012 12:32 PM

The US has sold and given Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries THREE TIMES as much arms as it has given or sold to Israel! The Egyptian army has been built by the US. The Palestinian police force was built by the United States. The Saudis and the UAE have sold nearly $100 billion worth of arms, and neither recognizes Israel. So you ask why ISrael spied on the United States??? And the US does not spy on Israel?? Ha!

And those ABM missiles were designed by Israelis even if 2/3rds of the funding came from the US. And the US gets to use those same Israeli products because they are the financial partners.

Yes, the USS Liberty was a SPY SHIP spying on Israeli troops while Israel was fighting all alone against 3 Arab armies!

Jul. 09 2012 12:31 PM
Jennifer from Brooklyn

The land that the "Israelis" are defending is land that belonged to Palestinian people. Truth - they have no claim to the land other than that it was obtained and occupied by force. And continues to be occupied by the oppression of Palestinians who live in apartheid ghettos . If I tell you that I will give you back a piece of something that I stole from you, would you be grateful and cooperative? Or would you be indignant and insulted?

Jul. 09 2012 12:30 PM
Amy from Manhattan

1. Does the 50-50 disagreement Leonard mentioned not count as an "internal split" on the Israeli side by Mr. Raviv?

2. Yes, Israel pulled out of the Gaza Strip, but it did so without any negotiation w/Fatah (in charge there at the time). Some people think that if they had coordinated w/them, Hamas might not have been able to take over.

3. Many Israelis live in the settlements for economic rather than ideological reasons. If the Israeli gov't. stopped making it cheaper to live there than within the Green Line, there could be fewer people in the settlements. (Then again, the ones who remained would be mostly the real hardliners.)

Jul. 09 2012 12:30 PM
john from office

But, Pollard belongs in Jail, he was a traitor. You cannot serve two nations.

Jul. 09 2012 12:29 PM

I hope war does not come, but if it has to come,better for ISrael NOW than AFTER Iran gets the bombs! Now, Israel could lose tens of thousands in a war. In a few years, it could lost millions and the whole little country.

Jul. 09 2012 12:25 PM
john from office

jgarbuz
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I have always been pro Israel and am sicken to see American Jews protest against Israel, because it is cool, hip, Or INTELLECTUAL!!

Jul. 09 2012 12:23 PM
oscar from ny

Israel needs to be careful now who they trust...they say they are the master of their fate...but they are riding on the harlot...thats us :)

Jul. 09 2012 12:21 PM

To John from Office

Wow, we agree! Definitely, liberal Jews in both Israel and America are the enemies not only of the Jewish nation, but others as well.

Jul. 09 2012 12:21 PM
john from office

The greatest threat to Israel is Liberal American Jews.

Jul. 09 2012 12:18 PM

Oh,here we go again! Israel had to "make peace." Israel has to "give" the Palestinians a state! In other words, it is ISRAEL WHO IS THE PROBLEM and the hangup to peace! This is the mentality of all of these scribblers!

The Jews were prepared to share the land as far back as 1947! The CORE of the problem is the refusal of the Muslims to recognize even ONE INCH of Israel as JEWISH SOIL! They do not and will not recognize Jewish NATiONAL rights in that land. No more today then they did 70 years ago! The core of the problem is the REFUSAL to accept and respect a JEWISH STATE! That is the core of this ongoing conflict.

Jul. 09 2012 12:16 PM
Sarah from UES

Why is this important to any American?

Why wont you talk about a 1 State solution?

Jul. 09 2012 12:14 PM
Neil from Austin

Please, please, it's Persian not Farsi. The language spoken in Iran is Persian not "farsi", just as the language spoken in Germany is German, not "deutsch".

Jul. 09 2012 12:11 PM
Hugh Sansom

"Go into enemy countries" — that is, "enemies" as defined (these days) by Likudniks, which means anybody vaguely critical of Israel.

Contrary to what Hyman Roth notes, Mossad may be perceived as flawless, but it now has some great disasters to its credit just as the CIA or MI6 do in the US and Britain.

The war mentality in Israel today is far worse than it was 50 or 60 years ago. Just last week, some high-ranking official was talking very confidently of the "next war" in Lebanon. (That's in addition to the next war in Iran.)

Jul. 09 2012 12:10 PM
Hyman Roth from Tampa, FL

To what extent is the perception that Mossad can do <em>anything</em> in fact <em>encouraged</em> by the agency, essentially as a force-multiplier...and how much is just endemic Middle Eastern paranoia?

Jul. 09 2012 11:48 AM

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