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Jane Eisner, editor of The Jewish Daily Forward, talks about yesterday's meeting between the U.S. president and the Israeli prime minister, and their positions vis a vis Iran's nuclear ambitions.
No one man should have all that POWER.....
Both dorkboy and Nick need their meds.
dboy -- meds
We can all only dream what life would have been without the holocaust.
Sane and rational folks would not have needed to suffer through the paranoid, absurdist reasoning and baseless accusations of the perpetually persecuted.
These circuitous discussions would never have become the nuisance they are.
Without the holocaust or the nazis; no holocaust "deniers" and no neo "nazis". Reason would have prevailed. The accusations fly when logic fails and fear takes over. The debate ceases to exist, when the argument loses ground.
Yet, another reason to rally against the genesis of the next.
I am not spending more time on discussing dboy and his friend, but I would give some information for others.I don't know of any antisemite in the world who declares himself antisemite.Both dboy (and most certainly Nick) are the Holocaust deniers. I have all the qualifications to call the antisemites ... well "antisemites."
... you forgot D_g's Chosen!
Then let their blood be on my head! I think I read that line in the New Testament. I happen to love the Persian people, and have been watching Iranian movies for many years now. A wonderful people. The last people on earth Jews should be at war with. Doesn't Satan work in mysterious ways?
But then, Germans and Russians weren't bad people either. People are people. But whenever a megalomaniac manages to gain power, the first ones they go after are the Jews. Why? Jews are free. Jews are not slaves. Jews are diverse. Jews believe in free thought, free speech, free will. Adam and Eve were given free will. They were not created slaves. Free will means the freedom to disobey. And disobedience leads to the exit gate from the Garden of Eden. It leads to Cain murdering his brother Abel. But freedom is our birthright nonetheless, as it allows us to think and discover and hopefully choose the right road to redemption and salvation.
Your true, bloodthirsty, racist revenge psychosis is showing.
Me and my children will not participate in your rage.
Have at it. Fortunately, you will not go far.
Honestly, my friend, us yelling back and forth at each other is not going to change the other's opinion or feelings. I will end with this, I am not a facisct or muslim, and I am not an Anti-Semite. I said it before, but it is crap when your side uses that half assed argument. If the US goes to war with Iran because of Israel, you will have blood on your hands. Every child killed, part of that bullet or bomb will be partly your fault. You war hawks should be the ones that clean up the dead. Also, I don't believe your crappy statistics either. Peace out.
There are 5 times as many ARabs living in West Bank Israel and Gaza as was the case in 1947! FIVE TIMES AS MANY! Those ARabs who rejected the Jewish State and refuse to be loyal citizens of it, are allowed to have their own governments, called Fatah and Hamas! THey have their own elected leaders. They choose to be at war with the Jewish state, and should have been destroyed decades ago, but are allowed to reproduce and attack Israel at will! The US would not tolerate rocket fire from even "indian" reservations, and they are truly indigenous, not like the ARabs who occupied Jewish soil some centuries back.
Nick and Dboy = Islamofascist + neo-Nazi fellow travelers. Calling ISrael an "apartheid state" while all Jews have been ethnically cleansed out of the Arab countries, and most Christians as well. Or on the way out. By contrast 5.5 million Arabs live on Jewish soil today, some 5 times as many as in 1947! 1.2 million Arabs have magically turned into 5.5 million, and yet they have the audacity, hubris, gall and "chutzpeh" to call Israel an "apartheid" state! This is why I say, the Father of Lies, Satan, is their sustenance.
Yea, I agree that you shouldn't pick up and move to Saudi Arabia, but I would argue that for anyone. I never said Arab Countries are beautiful dispensaries for Democracy or even religious tolerance, but you can't (and you didn't) argue that Israel is free and democratic to all. It isn't. It is, by definition, Aparteid. It holds the people of Gaza and the West Bank to be 2nd Class citizens and is using military force to control them.
LOL!Anna, well you fell for that one hook line and sinker. I wish absolutely no harm to any Jews anywhere. A Neo-Nazi or Nazi, or Anti-Semite, ARROGANTLY BRAGS ABOUT CAUSING VIOLENCE TO JEWS, BLACKS, OR anyone else they decide to hate. I am critizing the government of Israel, not as Jews, but as people. My one specific instruction to Zionists is exactly what you are doing, stop. Calling people Anti-Semitic that aren't is blatantly stupid and harmful to your side of the argument. See your buddy Joshua Block about that, it just simply is a poor position that doesn't hold water.
Well, these are your friends, Sheldon, join the club of hard core neo-Nazi antisemitism.Sorry, dboy and Nick, antisemitism is my area of expertise.
Pedantic history "lessons" will never make us human.
Book your tickets to the front, there's killing to be done!
"Apartheid" Israel, you say? How about this deal. If I were prime minister of Israel, I would allow TWICE as many Muslims to live in Israel as there are Jews and Christians allowed to live in Saudi Arabia! There are 5.5 million Arabs living on Jewish soil today! How many Jews live on ARab soil today? While Churches are being burned down in Muslim countries on an almost daily basis, Churches are increasing in numbers in Israel!
How many Christians are still allowed to live peacefully in the Arab countries today? I know all the Jews are gone, so how many Christians are left? The Fact is, that Israel is the most decent and tolerant country in the Middle East by far!
Well, predictably dboy entered the Holocaust denial zone - it doesn't take much.
Sorry, I meant America's got Israel's "front" while Israel's got America's "back." Israel has been on the front lines long before America got directly involved.
DBoy, I gotta come help you out. You are being pulled into the same arguement Aparteid Israelis always use. First, it is Holocaust Guilt. They want you to take sympathy for them having an Aparteid government in Israel because they were victims to one of the gravest crimes in history. Of course, the Holocaust was one of the worst crimes in all of recorded history, but does that give them the right to attack countries on the presumption that they "may" attack them? Does it give them the right to occupy the Palestinian areas of the country? And when I say Occupy, I mean, tanks and guns and bulldozers.Their other tactic is to point to Palestinian aggression in the past. They will constantly point to suicide bombings and murders of families as acts of constant Palestinian aggression that they must always live in fear of. They won't talk about how they lob rockets into Gaza and the West Bank, or how children are often killed by the Bedoiun Guns for Hire. My favorite tactic, though, has got to be the "If you aren't Pro-Israel, you're Anti-Semitic!" What a load of crap. That doesn't even make sense. I don't like Obama or the Republican Party, does that mean I am Anti-American? No! That is such crap, with absolutely no basis of reason, that it actually becomes difficult to argue against. Honestly, seeing Obama grovel to AIPAC made me sick to my stomach. I know he hates Netanyahu because Netanyahu is a liar and a butcher, and furthermore, an upstart. Netanyahu is aligned with the American Right, and would love nothing more than to see Obama lose. Honestly, I hope to see Netanyahu gone. I hope the Israeli people get smart and bounce him and the Likud butchers out of power before these scumbags get us all involved in another War of Aggression that never ends. Go ahead, call me Anti-Semitic, I know you are going to do it, even though I already have exposed it as being a short cut to reason and thinking. Do it!
If I had been prime minister of Israel ten years ago, there already would be no IRanian nuclear program, nor any city called "Qom" anymore either. I never believed for one second that America would put its skin on the line for Israel. Maybe for the SOuth Koreans, or for the South Vietnames, or for the oil in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, but not directly for Israel. Even Obama said "Israel's got America's back." America's back is all ISrael is going to get. Israel has always been "point." It knocked out Saddam's nuclear reactor before Americans went to fight Saddam. Israel knocked out Syria's incipient nuclear reactor. ISrael's got America's "front." Israel's got America's "back." The butt end.
dboy, if you care so much about "innocent civilians" why aren't you on some Homs forum/phone or personally in Syria and other charming places - protecting, defending, etc.
Anna - I'm still scratching my head as you instructed. If as you said - there are no good Iranians, lets wipe them off the face of the earth, put them ALL in concentration camps, take the gold out of their mouths, use their hair in pillows and carry out grotesque experiments on others - God is on our side.
No different than their own opressors.
Incapable of reason.
Bring on the bloodbath.
Proves my point:
Like I said:
If you're determined to kill; get to work.
Leave the rest of us out of it.
Wrong, dboy, wrong. I am here because both my parents (mother as a hospital nurse) marched into Germany to save humanity.
Your family "marched and died in Germany" to save us Jews? Sorry, but my mother was only able to come out after nearly 2 years from her pit in the ground when the Red Army finally came. And a bit later she met my father in the DP camp in Bavaria where I was later born in late 1946. General Patton, who was made governor of Bavaria, kept barbed wire around us "commie Jews" which is why he was sent home, and accidentally died on the way. But my father was in Leningrad eating dog meat, and ended his war in the taking of Berlin, after which he defected from the Red Army to the west. So, YOUR family marched and died in Germany to liberate us? The first US troops did not hit French soil until mid-1944. You've got your history and timetable all mixed up! Ha! You badly need a WWII history course.
FIRE UP THE MEAT GRINDER!!!
D_G SAVE US!!
Sheldon, and your knowledge of good Iranians comes from where? Are you sure that the Flotilla organizer and member of one of the most antisemitic groups in the West (Chris Hedges) a good source of information, for example? Even if all the young are wonderful (they are not and they can't be - there is no monolith there and they were brainwashed), there many more others ...Don't buy (and repeat and repeat) all these dogmas from people like Hedges.
is garbage you hear from Hedges and the like ..
btw, anna the ideological:
You're here because my family marched and died in Germany to save your family's collective asses.
Pathetic and totally self-absorbed.
Please, try to get a clue.
get your guns out.
see you when you get back...maybe.
When does it stop? It stops when Satan is locked up back in Hell! If that means another 6 million, or 600 million, or 6 billion dead, so be it! It stops when Satan is stopped! Oh, I know you don't believe in God or Satan. My apologies. But I do. Love is fleeting; Hate is eternal. That's why the Christian message of Love is so endearing, but the Messenger of Hate is loose and war will not stop until He is stopped.
My mother was saved ONLY because one peasant Polish family of TRUE Christians, prepared to lay down their lives at the hands of the most cruel people on earth, just to save a handful of hapless Jews! We Jews call them "Righteous Gentiles" but in fact they were truly of faith prepared to die a cruel and merciless death to save a small bunch of raggedy Jews. That is TRUE LOVE of the highest order!
dboy,His and countless other families perished when people like you marched protecting the rights of "innocent Germans."
REALLY great question!
Frankly, it's depressing. How can a country with a unlimited access to knowledge produce so many absolute morons - no knowledge of history, no understanding of societies, no knowledge of human nature - only "pseudo-liberal" idiotic babbling about "fairness" of monsters, "sanity" of loonies, loving hugging of scoundrels, etc.Truly, when there is no conscience, everything is possible, including irresponsible babbling of morons.
JG - Most of Iran's poplutaion are under 25 and can't stand their regime. The crippling sanctions are making their failed economy even worse, even the revolutionary guards are getting restless, as their sizable economic holdings are being harmed. There is nothing the Mullahs would want more than an attack by the US to distract their failings.
jgarbuz from Queens
I am shocked and horrified by your family's experience. Horrified!!!
My absolute sincerity.
However, killing another 100,000 innocent Iranians in addition to the hundreds of thousands or innocents killed in Iraq (for no apparent reason) is NOT going to correct the unfathomable evil that was foisted on your family.
It's NOT going to fix it for you.
Where does it stop?? When you've killed as many as Hitler killed???
March 05, 2012Military.com|by Bryant JordanSeveral former high-ranking military, intelligence and State Department officials took out an ad in the Washington Post today urging President Obama to stand fast against political and lobbying pressure to attack Iran over claims it is trying to develop nuclear weapons.The letter, signed by five retired generals, two senior intelligence analysts and a senior State Department official, is accompanied by a photo and quotes from other current military and defense officials warning against such an attack."There is a national reflex on the conservative part [of the] political spectrum to reach for the military option first and others second," said retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, commander of the Coalition Military Assistance Training Team in Iraq from 2003 to 2004, when he developed and oversaw the training of the Iraqi military and security forces.
Yes, Scott, there is not difference between Israel and the land of Ajmadinejad, as it was no difference between Roosevelt's land and that of Hitler (or Stalin).Life is simple. Yes, all these neighbors of Israel (Assad, Ahmadenijad, etc. etc. etc. - all of them) are such promoters of justice and peace.It's time for me to vomit.
To Scot from Red Bank
Why should things be "fair?" Were the Germans "fair" when they murdered my defenseless grandmother, baby brother, and the rest of my family in 1942? I don't want things to be "fair." I don't want my enemy to have the means to destroy me. Jews invented the atomic bomb, which helped the US destroy two Japanese cities and end WWII with fewer US casualties. Was that fair? Should we have given the Japanese a bomb or two to even up the odds?
Israel has them because Israel is the only country in the world being formally threatened with annihilation. Why does the US, Russia, China, the UK, France, Pakistan or India still have them? IS someone threatening to wipe them off the map? I don't believe in "fairness." I believe in survival and destroying those who seek to wipe others off the map.
Lets make things fair and force Israel and Iran to be part of a "nuke free zone" middle east. Why does Israel get to have Weapons of Mass Destruction and others can not? No justice No peace. www.bush-it-usa.com
If I didn't think Iran was as serious a threat as Germany, Japan or even the USSR, and possibly more so, I wouldn't be advocating for war. Nobody knows the horrors of war more than does an Israeli or a Holocaust survivor.
Anna, you're 100% right, so I would do exactly that.
... not to mention, extremely limited capacity for rational, complex thought.
Sheldon, it's hopeless - cheap and stupid. Continue scratching your head.
Ideological psychosis, that's what we've got here.
Let's give ol' "Netty" what he wants and launch "anna bananas", jaggerbuttzz, and CheezleWhiz into Iran!!
Exhausting and pathetic.
Dear beloved dboy,Yours is the sanity of American German Bund marching in support of rational and sane ... you can guess ... whom.Once again, we hear praising of the rationality of ... monsters.
Hmm, Anna - how many times has Netanyahu been prime minister? Perhaps his lovely wife can hire you as a maid, then use & abuse you.
A modicum of sanity is not to be confused with "full blown" anti semitism!!!!
"Anna, I'm scratching my head..."Good, Sheldon, good. You have one .. Now, start using it. Fill it with some basic knowledge and stop babbling idiotically about Netanyahu.
Jg - your fair points on WWII aside. War is a serious thing - if Israel feels it has no choice but to bomb Iran, then they should go right ahead, they did so to Iraq and Syria - and the world did not end. The US bombing Iran, with Isreal's security as a pretext, is another story altogeter.
CorrectionIn my first comment I meant of course "As I get older .."When you see a full blown antisemitic fest ...
"Let's start another war for another country."
You mean like WWII, where we fought to save the Jews? Ohh, I forgot, we waited until Japan attacked us and sunk most of our Pacific fleet, and even then it took 4 days for Germany to declare war on us! And by the time US troops reached the shores of Normandy in mid 1944, my family was long dead and NOT buried, but smoke!
Yes, let's wait until Iranian missiles can hit a neighborhood near you. Remember the Cuban missile crisis, and how Kennedy was prepared to risk nuclear war with the USSR to get those missiles removed? Is that what it's going to take for Americans to take this thing seriously? War is coming. The only question is, will it be with a non-nuclear or a nuclear armed Iran.
"Psychotic"dboy seems to be well trained - it is firmly in the stalinist tradition to offer occasionally self-criticism. Yes, dboy, you're.
Anna, I'm scratching my head....
"Yes JG, lets start yet another war on behalf of another country - why not."I am guessing that Sheldon is somehow "Jewish" - one of those "liberal" idiotic American Jews, overprivileged, overfed and overprimitive, functioning on the level of platitudes, slogans and demagoguery, deprived of knowledge of history, coscience and... anything else, full of complexes, serving all sorts of sickos what they want.dr anna
"The complexeties of the jewish state would never allow peace in earth."As I can older I am less and less tolerant of idiocy and ignorance. I have no tolerance for illiterate bigots.
Yes JG, lets start yet another war on behalf of another country - why not.
Instead of Netanyahu rattling his sabre at the U.S. why doesn't he look Russia and China in the eye and tell them they better get on board with sanctions and squeeze Iran. When he threatens Iran it is the U.S. that will suffer terrorism threats so what he does/says at home certainly affects what will happen to us. Go threaten Putin
Iran will not swerve by one iota unless the president and the US Congress declare war on Iran. THen Iran might take US words seriously. Not before.
Pedantic historical musing do NOTHING to address ANY of the current issues!
If it was for the Brits, part of Iran would have become a Soviet satellite state back in 1945. The Brits forced Stalin to withdraw his forces from norther Iran. But that story seems not have been told, for whatever reasons.Iran was neutral in WWII, and it was feared that the Germans would get a pro-German IRanian gov't, with its oil, which is why both the Brits and the Russians occupied parts of Iran during WWII.
I'd like to hear every American beating the drum for going to war against Iran publicly state that they will force their children and grandchildren to withdraw from undergraduate and graduate schools and jobs/professions and immediately enlist for combat duty in the United States Armed Forces.
The US will do NOTHING unless and until nuclear armed Iranian missiles are on Cuban or Venezuelan soil some 6 minutes flying time to Miami or Dallas. As long as missiles are not DIRECTLY threatening US lives en masse, America will talk the talk, but do nothing serious.
What should be done is put a declaration of war on Iran before Congress, so that Iran understand that if it doesn't surrender its nuclear program, it faces total war and destruction.
Isn't it strange that the orthodox Jews would try to diminish the role of women around the time of Purim when the hero of Purim is a woman, Esther?
So the last caller's point (Dan) is that the ultra-orthodox Isrealies wouldn't be so awful if everyone else would stop disagreeing with them? In other words, they're garden variety reactionaries? Good to know.
LESS RELIGION: MORE BRAINS!!!
"I am no friend of the Iranian regime, which helped create and arm Hezbollah, is certainly meddling in Iraq, has persecuted human rights activists, gays, women and religious and ethnic minorities, embraces racism and intolerance, and uses its power to deny popular will. And yes, it is a regime that appears determined to build a nuclear weapon, although I would stress that no one has offered any proof this is occurring. I have spent time in Iranian jails. I was once deported from Tehran in handcuffs. But I do not remember Iran orchestrating a coup in the United States to replace an elected government with a brutal dictator who for decades persecuted, assassinated and imprisoned democracy activists. I do not remember Iran arming and funding a neighboring state to wage war against our country. Iran never shot down one of our passenger jets, as did the USS Vincennes—nicknamed Robocruiser by the crews of other American vessels—when in June 1988 it fired missiles at an Airbus filled with Iranian civilians, killing everyone on board. Iran is not sponsoring terrorist strikes within the United States, as our intelligence services and the Israeli intelligence services currently do in Iran. We have not seen five of our top nuclear scientists since 2007 murdered on American soil. The attacks in Iran include suicide bombings, kidnappings, beheadings, sabotage and “targeted assassinations” of government officials and other Iranian leaders. What would we do if the situation were reversed? How would we react if Iran carried out similar acts of terrorism against us?"
Same Hedges piece.
Would Iran really attack Israel when the most important monuments to Islam are in Jerusalem?
Israel, like any country, has the right negate any existential treats as she sees fit. And based on history, she will probably do so regarding Iran, without asking or telling her so-called ally - the US. Good for her.
However, I'm sick and tired of Nentanyahu and his American based pro-likud propagandists, beating war drums and dangling the prize of the Jewish vote in front of politicians by demanding Americans to fight yet another war whether they want to or not.
"What is being done in Gaza, the world’s largest open-air prison, is a pale reflection of what is slowly happening to the rest of us. It is a window into the rise of the global security state, our new governing system that the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls “inverted totalitarianism.” It is a reflection of a world where the powerful are not bound by law, either on Wall Street or in the shattered remains of the countries we invade and occupy, including Iraq with its hundreds of thousands of dead. And one of the greatest purveyors of this demented ideology of violence for the sake of violence, this flagrant disregard for the rule of domestic and international law, is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC."
Recent Chris Hedges
Meanwhile, the settlements issue has to be pushed down off the list of total problems that can be dealt with today.
The complexeties of the jewish state would never allow peace in earth.
Brian-When Jane Eisner (predictably) swoons over Obama’s staunch expressions of support and of “having Israel’s back”, please ask her if Netanyahu also didn’t himself make a sincere effort to meet halfway. It takes two people to shake hands, so let’s also acknowledge Netanyahu’s patience when the consequences are much more imminent.
Even the NYT wrote today-
“Both leaders agreed to try to tamp down the heated debate about Iran in their countries, officials said. Mr. Netanyahu also did not push Mr. Obama to lay down sharper “red lines” that would prompt American action. The two men did not close the gap on this issue, the official said, though he added that Mr. Netanyahu did not press Mr. Obama on it. Indeed, in his speech to Aipac, Mr. Netanyahu did not speak of preventing Iran from achieving nuclear weapons capability, only a nuclear weapon itself.”
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