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Tea Party Patriots

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

Mark Meckler and Jenny Beth Martin tell us how they started the Tea Party Patriots in 2009, one of the largest grassroots political organizations in America. In Tea Party Patriots: The Second American Revolution, they explain how the Tea Party was created, the party’s fundamental beliefs and goals, and they outline a strategy for the organization going forward.

Guests:

Jenny Beth Martin and Mark Meckler

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Comments [132]

Fintan McCarthy from Nashville

we made a video to energize the voting base - Please check it out and help us spread it to all the fence sitters and fellow conservatives
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IqDGmjXZk

Please follow us on our twitter account as well:
https://twitter.com/thenewpatriots
The (New) PATRIOTS - 'PRIDE FAITH and COURAGE'By couchhome123| 1 video
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The (New) PATRIOTS - 'PRIDE FAITH and COURAGE'By couchhome123| 1 video
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The (New) PATRIOTS - 'PRIDE FAITH and COURAGE'By couchhome123| 1 video
Watch
The (New) PATRIOTS - 'PRIDE FAITH and COURAGE'By couchhome123| 1 video
Watch

Aug. 05 2012 02:45 PM
vulturesign

'When surveying supporters or participants of the Tea Party movement, polls have shown that they are to a very great extent more likely to be registered Republican, have a favorable opinion of the Republican Party and an unfavorable opinion of the Democratic Party.[81][83][84] The Bloomberg National Poll of adults 18 and over showed that 40% of Tea Party supporters are 55 or older, compared with 32% of all poll respondents; 79% are white, 61% are men and 44% identify as "born-again Christians",[85] compared with 75%,[86] 48.5%,[87] and 34%[88] for the general population, respectively.
[edit]Canvass and polls
An October 2010 Washington Post canvass of local Tea Party organizers found 99% said "concern about the economy" was an "important factor".[23] Polls have also examined Tea Party supporters' views on race and racial politics. The University of Washington poll of registered voters in Washington State found that 74% of Tea Party supporters agreed with the statement "[w]hile equal opportunity for blacks and minorities to succeed is important, it's not really the government's job to guarantee it", while a CBS/New York Times poll found that 25% think that the administration favors blacks over whites, compared with just 11% of the general public, and that they are more likely to believe Obama was born outside the United States.[83][89][90] A seven state study conducted from the University of Washington found that Tea Party movement supporters within those states were "more likely to be racially resentful" than the population as a whole, even when controlling for partisanship and ideology.[91][92] Of white poll respondents who strongly approve of the Tea Party, only 35% believe that blacks are hard-working, compared to 55% of those strongly opposed to the Tea Party, and 40% of all respondents.[93][94] However, analysis done by ABC News' Polling Unit found that views on race "are not significant predictors of support for the Tea Party movement" because they are typical of whites who are very conservative.[95][96]' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Composition

Feb. 16 2012 05:05 PM
vulturesign

'Various polls have also probed Tea Party supporters for their views on a variety of political and controversial issues. A University of Washington poll of 1,695 registered voters in the state of Washington reported that 73% of Tea Party supporters disapprove of Obama's policy of engaging with Muslim countries, 88% approve of the controversial immigration law recently enacted in Arizona, 82% do not believe that gay and lesbian couples should have the legal right to marry, and that about 52% believed that "lesbians and gays have too much political power".[89][90]
More than half (52%) of Tea Party supporters told pollsters for CBS/New York Times that they think their own "income taxes this year are fair".[83] Additionally, a Bloomberg News poll found that Tea Partiers are not against increased government action in all cases. "The ideas that find nearly universal agreement among Tea Party supporters are rather vague," says J. Ann Selzer, the pollster who created the survey. "You would think any idea that involves more government action would be anathema, and that is just not the case."
In advance of a new edition of their book American Grace, David E. Campbell of Notre Dame and Robert D. Putnam of Harvard published in a The New York Times opinion the results of their research into political attitudes, finding that Tea Party supporters had been largely "highly partisan Republicans" (and not "nonpartisan political neophytes"). Additionally, according to Campbell and Putnam, their rank and file is more concerned about "putting God in government" than it is with trying to shrink government.[97]
The 2010 midterm elections demonstrated considerable skepticism within the Tea Party movement with respect to the dangers and the reality of global warming. A New York Times/CBS News Poll during the election revealed that only a small percentage of Tea Party supporters considered global warming a serious problem, much less than the portion of the general public that does. The Tea Party is strongly opposed to government-imposed limits on carbon dioxide emissions as part of emissions trading legislation to encourage use of fuels that emit less carbon dioxide.[98] An example is the movement's support of California Proposition 23, which would suspend AB32, the Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006.[99] The proposition failed to pass, with less than 40% voting in favor.[100]
Many of the movement's members also favor stricter measures against illegal immigration.[101]' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Views_of_supporters

Feb. 16 2012 04:57 PM
vulturesign


"In an August 30, 2010, article in The New Yorker, Jane Mayer said that the billionaire brothers David H. Koch and Charles G. Koch and Koch Industries are providing financial and organizational support to the Tea Party movement through Americans for Prosperity, which David founded.[130][131] The AFP's 'Hot Air Tour' was organized to fight against taxes on carbon use and the activation of a cap and trade program.[132] In 1984, David Koch also founded Citizens for a Sound Economy,[133] part of which became FreedomWorks in a 2004 split,[undue weight? – discuss] another group that organized and supports the movement.[134] Koch Industries issued a press release stating that the Kochs have 'no ties to and have never given money to FreedomWorks'.[135] Former ambassador Christopher Meyer writes in the Daily Mail that the Tea Party movement is a mix of "grassroots populism, professional conservative politics, and big money", the last supplied in part by Charles and David Koch.[136] Jane Mayer says that the Koch brothers' political involvement with the Tea Party has been so secretive that she labels it 'covert'.[137]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Influence_of_Koch_Industries

Feb. 16 2012 04:48 PM
Lou from New Jersey

If fiscal responsibility is so important then these two should love Clinton for balancing the budget and roundly condemn Bush for insisting that the surplus Clinton left be spent, and then some. Instead, they go off and explain how things have been going wrong for the past 100 years which,I suspect, begins when the federal reserve bank was established. They imply that we're becoming a fascist state because of the intersection of government, corporations and unions. That's just using the word for effect; we are not a fascist state. It just sounds like these two good people consider themselves to be enlightened historians or economists; but just aren't up to the task. I don't believe that they even have a rudimentary understanding of the Constitution they revere so much. The Constitution does limit the power of federal government, but I don't think that translates into a kind of colonial, small, local style government they seem to think is so nice which it probably is. But the Founders had slightly bigger things in mind. The Constitution gives the federal government the power to levy taxes and to regulate commerce between states and more. That's plenty of real power; that's big government. The idea was to create an empire and seems to have worked.

Feb. 16 2012 05:48 AM
David K from CA

Meckler was involved in politics prior to the beginning of the movement. They act like they are the only ones who started the movement. There were 35 on that first phone call and over 50 cities who had the first Tea Parties on February 27, 2009. These two have some very selective memories. Might want to ask Martin what type of business she and her husband had which was a tempory employment service that specialized in supplying non English speaking workers.

These two are frauds who only work to maintain a salary for themselves without helping the local movement. Also, ask them who gave them the one million dollar donation in 2010 which no doubt they are not including in their $60 per person donation.

These two take your money and spend it on lawsuits to destroy people. A real fine bunch you had on your show. Might want to delouse the place before your next guests.

Feb. 15 2012 11:14 PM
David

Actually, Utter, what I am advocating—voluntaryism—is not at all the classic sense of anarchy. Anarchists are generally thought of as communists. Although there have been some simple examples of a voluntaryist society centuries ago, it has not yet been implemented in a modern economy. Though you and most people will probably not be interested in trying it, I and others are more than willing. (Certainly it won't happen in the United States of Big Corporation-controlled America.)

And Churchill was not necessarily correct. There are economic arguments to be made that a benevolent monarchy is much better than a democracy. (But I'm not going to get into a discussion of that here.)

To understand what I mean when I write that my type of voluntary society is not anarchy in the classic sense (i.e., a sort of "communal/communist" type that usually is implied), you can check out this website:

http://voluntaryist.com/fundamentals/introduction.html

And you might want to check out this book (one of a number written in recent decades on the alternative to a monopolistic government):

http://mises.org/books/economicsethics.pdf

P.S. If you haven't guessed already, Utter, I won't be sticking around much longer in the United States. I think its better days are over. This "democracy" we have here is basically a one-party system: The system of the big money interests (primarily the Banksters).

Feb. 15 2012 09:42 PM
dizzy5 from upstate manhattan

The tea was thrown in the harbor because the tea taxes were too LOW, putting the smugglers out of business. The Tea Party today apologized to the BRITISH Petroleum company for the President's fine against them. The lady's story about losing her home does NOT ring true- why not accept the loan from the govt. and then honorably pay it back? Isn't their bank protected by FDIC? So the money's good, guaranteed by the US taxpayer, to save in a bank, but not loan, borrow or pay back. And the final nonsense about what to teach regarding economics? In the 80's, the doors on the decrepit #1 train (doin' top speed) use to fly open between stations, dumping out the riders leaning on them. I was riding along with Lenny's guests for a while, trying to listen to these muddled dummies but MAN! When we got to 'teaching economics correctly", BOOM! (metaphorically speaking, natch) the doors popped open and out they went and their pathetic story/argument. Len! Where were you on this?

Feb. 15 2012 09:10 PM

David,

There is no reasonable alternative to democratic govt, or as Churchill put it, ""Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." All societies that have a weak, small or ineffective govt have failed, without exception. No successful society has ever arisen without a strong, effective central govt, no exception. TPers look to those societies that have been brought down by a strong, authoritarian govt and draw the wrong conclusions.

The danger of the Tea Party is that, whatever the individuals intentions, it is actually co-opted by big business and big politics. If the T party has any effect it'll be to tilt power from government to big business, from the weak to the powerful - behind a fig leaf of reducing govt interference.

What you seem to be advocating is most accurately defined as anarchy, in the classic sense. It has never succeeded. It is hopelessly naive to think that people in a anarchical group dynamic behave well, or as well as possible.

Feb. 15 2012 06:53 PM

And with regard to Ms Martin's comment about her going bankrupt and losing her house because she somehow 'refused the TARP'

That doesn't make sense. It bears no common sense. It lacks DETAILS. There are a lot of reasons someone can lose a home: Most of them involve BAD DECISIONS on the part of the Homeowner.

I suspect that she, like many others during the Boom, were making money by Flipping Houses. And while House Flipping was lucrative at the beginning, by the end of the boom, you were flat-out Gambling that you could unload the house before the price fell.

So when the proverbial Music Stopped, she was caught standing with her pants around her ankles when the Banks pulled all the chairs away.

But like a Lot of Angry Tea Partiers, like the ones who lost jobs or suffered unilateral Paycuts, she blamed the GOV'T and Unions for her OWN Misfortune and her solution is to make everyone else Pay.

Ms Martin and Mr Meckle aren't Leaders...They're modern day Know-Nothings.

Feb. 15 2012 06:38 PM
jennifer from princeton

listening to these people talk about handing the federal government over to the states, i picture poor ike eishenhower spinning in his grave. here was a guy who understood very well the importance of a strong federal government in promoting democracy and protecting us from outside influences. these tea partyiers are worried about communism and corporatism? what the heck do they think will happen if we hand over the federal govt to our states? our poor beleagured states can't afford to replace light bulbs, let alone pay for medicare and social security! so who's gonna step in? tune in in 100 years to see a country owned by halliburton and ge, which will be owned by the chinese government.

these people should have to live in liberia for 6 months before they open their mouths about government again.

and ps greece is a mess because they don't pay their taxes!

Feb. 15 2012 05:58 PM
Lonnie from Brooklyn!!!

I made myself put on the headphones and Listen-- really listen to these two. I'm glad that Leonard gave them a fair hearing without phonecalls.

And what I heard chilled me- Other Posters have hit it on the nail- Narrow-minded and Intolerant. One FIRM basis for Jenny Martin is her dislike of 'Compromise' 'Compromise was the Problem' she kind of said.

She and her companion envision a Perfectly Simple Governance system WITHOUT Politics. . .except HER's. Problem is our System is a REPRESENTATIVE System. That means competing views MUST BE ACCOMODATED. That means POLITICS. And POLITICS MEANS COMPROMISE.

This woman and this fellow feel themselves Intelligent-- yet they FAIL or WILLFULLY refuse to see that the Constitution they prize so is a Document FORGED FROM COMPROMISE!

Yet here they are, saying in so may words that if THEY get their way-- There will be NO MORE COMPROMISE. Everyone will Follow THEIR RULES and No Other. Can you say the word: 'Tyranny'?

I was chilled-- because a history lesson from High School came back to Haunt me-- I have a Sense that THIS is how the Bolshevik Revolution Started. It started with 'Intellectuals' proposing a 'Perfect System'. And Look how THAT turned out!

And when she talked about how we should Teach the Children about 'The Constitution and the Capitalist System and, in essence, nothing else',The way she intoned it, I couldn't help but think of Chairman Mao and the Cultural Revolution.

The Republican Party doesn't know how dangerous this little 'fire' is. AndI say that As A Republican.

Feb. 15 2012 04:03 PM
David

Utter, I have to disagree with you. Football is a purely voluntary activity in which the people themselves agree on the rules, set the standards, and hire and fire the refs to be impartial judges. In business it is what is referred to as "setting industry standards."

The government is a monopolistic organization that claims the right to be the sole supplier of security (police, military), arbitration (the courts), and incarceration (the penal system). If there is something or some things that I don't want from the government as far as services or laws/regulations, I can't opt out (i.e., go my own way) as I can when dealing with a private business—whether that business be a sport or a producer of a product or service.

Think of anything that you are forced to pay taxes for that you are absolutely against. Does that make any sense to you that you still have to pay other human beings (i.e., the government) for something that you are against? Microsoft, Starbucks, Amazon, etc. can't come to your home and force you to buy one of their products or services whether you want it or not.

I can think of a number of government laws/actions that I am outraged that I am forced to pay for that I am 100% against: 1) The Bush/Obama wars/bombings of innocent civilians in Asia; 2) The corporate welfare bailouts of incompetent companies (e.g., the banks, the two auto companies); 3) the pursuit, prosecution, and imprisonment of people using substances that other people with guns (i.e., the government) deem are not "healthy" for those people (i.e., recreational drugs); 3) the arrest of women who choose to voluntarily engage in sex for a profit (i.e., prostitutes). (As the late, great George Carlin once quipped, "Selling is legal. Sex is legal. So how come selling sex is illegal?"); 4) the preventing of certain groups of people from entering into voluntary contracts with others (i.e., gay marriage).

If this current monopolistic system works for you, Utter, you're welcome to it. It sure doesn't work for me.

Feb. 15 2012 03:59 PM

TPers see the country & it's management as the field of football - imagine the govt regularly intervening to change refereeing decisions, rules of the game, wages etc. Clearly, football manages itself well enough without govt intervention, it can manage itself, govt intervention would be wasteful and vexatious, and clearly everyone who loves the football would resist such intervention.

There are several things wrong with this view, chiefly -

1) The referees,rules, & NFL etc are equivalent to govt & the game would fall apart rapidly without them.

2) Football, as with many business are popular & highly visible - major malfeasance would be quickly spotted and widely protested. Much of what goes on in the country, socially & economically at micro & macro levels is opaque and occurs far from public view - an active govt is particularly important.

Feb. 15 2012 03:29 PM
EastBayGrease

Jon Pope, you can easily turn your statement around and say the same thing about people with opposite views (than Tea Partiers). Calling someone ignorant, frauds or clowns is no way to get them to change their views, IMO, regardless of the issue.

I expect better from Lopate's listeners.......just sayin.

Feb. 15 2012 02:42 PM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

EastBayGrease from California, maybe there are so many negative comments about these folks because you NEVER EVER here anyone from the tea party talk about listening to other ideas except their own views. But you do hear from a lot of Tea party folks that if you don't believe what they do, you're not a true American or a true Patriot. What the hell is that all about? So why would you expect people to accept the tea party folks with open arms?

Feb. 15 2012 02:27 PM
EastBayGrease from California

The number of hateful comments directed at the TEA Party guests from so-called Progressives is astonishing. Contrary to some opinions, the guests seemed intelligent and made thoughtful comments - they just have a different view than many of Lopate's listerners. Why are some listeners so intolerant of different views that they attack people's motives and intelligence.

You don't have to be a TEA Party member (I'm not) to be concerned about the unsustainable level of federal debt. Another $1T plus deficit from Obama with spending a 24% of GDP. No matter what tax system we have had in U.S. for past 100 years, revenues do not exceed 20% (see Hauser's Law). This insanity has to stop.

Spending has to be cut!

Feb. 15 2012 02:17 PM
Roger from New York

Listening to these two Tea Party leaders brought the image of Robespierre and Madame Defarge at the guillotine to mind. That may be a bit extreme, but behind their conveniently packaged - and equally superficial - arguments, I sensed a very narrow, intolerant view of the world. Being obsessed with the financial woes of the country without embracing a vitally necessary rebalancing of the tax burden shoots holes in an otherwise earnest concern. The notion of a "communist-fascist-socialist continuum" is preposterous in many ways, and the fact that such a theory is put forward with conviction is all the more troubling. Some Americans obviously find this sort of thinking appealing, but, hopefully, the majority will never give the full reins of power to this crowd. They've done enough damage in Congress since 2010.

Feb. 15 2012 01:31 PM

Not sure about this but, I think the Kapitalists™ have killed FAR more commies than the other way around.

Feb. 15 2012 01:23 PM
BobinSanta Fe from Santa Fe, NM

These two weren't even very good 'slippery Republicans' ( which they and most Tea Party members seem to be). I was a little dissapointed that they weren't pushed a little harder and deeper on the 'corporation' aspects - only sighting green industries and ethanol as examples. What about all the horrendous tax advantages that major corps in this country have in their advantage - what about jobs to other countries?

I'm surprised that such a well considered publisher took them on.

Feb. 15 2012 01:21 PM

PINKO COMMIES!!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

HEAD FOR THE HILLS!!!!!

Feb. 15 2012 01:21 PM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

You learn something new everyday. I didn't know we were still fighting the cold war with those pinko commies...

Feb. 15 2012 01:15 PM

I love to hear the other side state their position in venues like this, because I need a good laugh from time to time. This pair has me rolling on the floor.

Feb. 15 2012 01:00 PM
Carolyn from Brooklyn

Not sure they have much of an actual vision on the long view for America if it were to follow their 3 ideals. They edged on nostalgia, and seemed particularly naive. That would have been a good question. It may have revealed why they think the Republican Party has taken them on. The Tea Party seems poised on the brink of inanity given its splinters.

Feb. 15 2012 12:58 PM
David

I wish to correct something that the guest said. He said that inflation is a hidden tax. It isn't. A tax is when the government takes money from you. Inflation is when the government prints up more money which, in consequence, lowers the value of the money you still have (because the money supply has increased). In other words, inflation is value destruction of your money by the government, not the taking of some of your money by the government.

Feb. 15 2012 12:58 PM

Joe,

All those topics have already been covered on this radio station, WNYC. Perhaps you should listen to it more often?

Feb. 15 2012 12:55 PM
David

Antonio from bayside: Interesting point about the status of forces agreement over Iraq, except that that was an agreement that was basically imposed on Bush by the Iraqi government, i.e., the Iraqis would have been happier if the U.S. had gotten out way before the end of 2011. (And I'm glad you know about that agreement. I hope that you also realize then that Obama did NOT end the occupation—the agreement had already set that up for the end of 2011.) But that still avoids the main issues of Obama's escalating the Afghanistan invasion and his initiating of drone bomb attacks in other countries—which have murdered many innocent civilians (including the friend of a Pakistani neighbor of mine). Had Bush done this, or a Pres. McCain, many of the people on the left who are now deafeningly silent on these atrocities would have been screaming bloody murder—and, again, rightly so.

Feb. 15 2012 12:53 PM
John A.

I was ready to remark on the record number of comments for a Lenny show, and that was at 60 comments! THX LL for your aggressive push in the middle of the show - appreciated. These people needed to speak out on the wreckage that those elected as TEA party had done in 2011.

Feb. 15 2012 12:53 PM

Ron M. from JC:

I might ask the question:

Have these two "read" -period.

Feb. 15 2012 12:52 PM
Joe

Thank you for presenting people with a viewpoint other than liberal. Now how about something on Solyndra, Fast and Furious, coercing Catholic organizations to pay for abortion drugs, which violates their freedom of religion?

Feb. 15 2012 12:51 PM

Jean Marie Offenbacher from Chelsea:

RIGHT ON!!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:50 PM
Ron M. from JC

I wonder if those two have ever read Friedman or Von Hayek?

Feb. 15 2012 12:49 PM
Ernie

These people are living in thier own world- an extetion of false history learned from 1950's Television programs. There are too many things that they belive that are just not true. Without the social safty net and federal regulation the USA will fall apart. Billonare masters, each with a few states that they govern via lobbists and politanas for hire. The population will become several layers of wage slaves. fighting for the crumbs and scraps that fall from the tables.

Feb. 15 2012 12:47 PM
John from Fanwood

Leonard, you fulfilled your requirement for crazy guests, now we return to our regular programming. We’re like Greece, GM and Chrysler will succumb to the market, the states are better at caring for us than the Federal government? Yeeeesh!

Feb. 15 2012 12:47 PM
Henry from NJ

The general debate about our economic problem seems to have swung around to an issue like Social Security because it is easily identifiable by any fool, while wealth accumulation by the top 1% or even a tiny fraction of those is never examined.
Social Security has been funded by taxes most recipients paid, and if any reform is advisably this might be attended to in its own terms. It is harder to examine the sources of the huge wealth aggregation of the powerful, whether it is derived from pure inheritance without contribution to the common good or, as seems more and more significant, by manipulations of the stock market, which threatens the stability of the social and economic system.
This issue is avoided because it is hard and demands fresh thinking. WNYC is no less complicit in this oversight as anyone else.

Feb. 15 2012 12:45 PM
gene from NYC

>>Their words are straight out of corporate PR

Agreed. Their complaint that gov runs corporations is weak; gov can try to mitigate corporate practices for the good of the public and public health, but often, it's the huge corps that write our laws and run gov. If the cost of doing business includes cleaning up your waste before it enters the water system, but you can bribe legislators to offload that cost to the taxpayer, your profits rise.

This is where their argument would gain strength with normal people. And be consistent. That they ignore it betrays their true agenda.

Feb. 15 2012 12:45 PM
Edward from NJ

@ericf, I'm 100% certain that running afoul of New York City guns laws is a major point of pride for Meckler.

Feb. 15 2012 12:45 PM

Someone, PLEASE let these idiots know that the new ubiquitous, Orwellian "enemy" is the "evil" muslims, NOT the commies.

Muslims are the new Commies!!!

Commies are so 1959!

Man, this is scary!!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:44 PM
Bertil


Leonard, I am impressed by how you could keep your cool when talking to these people...scary to think that these people actually have an influence on the elections in the US. Sounds like a CIA black-ops..

Feb. 15 2012 12:43 PM

Where were these people when the Republicans turned a surplus into a big deficit from 2000-2008?

They concentrate on entitlements (and yes, we are entitled to Social Security and Medicare because we've paid into them, 35 years in my case), I hear nothing about reducing/eliminating military spending, oil and gas subsidies, agricultrural subsidies, intelligence/spying spending, etc., i.e., we will never have small government as these interestes will never let it happen.

While some reform is needed, the basic system we've had in the last 70 years did not prevent the the U.S. from becoming the most powerful and wealthy country in the history of the world - so what exactly is the disaster requiring the radical change they propose?

Feb. 15 2012 12:43 PM
C. E. Connelly from Manhattan

The problem with this kind of discussion is a common one nowadays. It's the downside of the democratization of the media. While a greater variety of voices often has salutary effects, offering oppressed groups a voice, facilitating the downfall of dictators, it also affords people like these two a following. They know nothing of substance about any topics they discuss. They simply make assertions and when pressed as to how they can be sure, they change the subject or make some further unsupported assertion. Leonard has tried to point out counterexamples but the format of the show doesn't really permit extended debate or fact checking. What needs to be grown to keep pace with the growth of utterly uninformed assertions(if not downright propaganda propagated by people who pretend represent the "average" person)is an effort by responsible institutions within the culture (like WNYC) to separate what people simply claim to be true with what is at least somewhat supported by evidence. Leonard and others do some of this sifting, but we need a lot more.

Feb. 15 2012 12:43 PM
Ellen from Brooklyn

No large-scale problems with food supplies in this country? I think the thousands sickened by the recent E.coli breakouts from tainted meats distributed to large swaths of the U.S. would want to differ.

The last processor responsible for a large disease outbreak had been oft-cited but not closed down. We need more oversight to make sure the increasingly larger processors are punished or closed if they do not meet federal regulations.

Feb. 15 2012 12:43 PM
Laura from UWS


Mr. Lopate did a valiant job. Worst guests ever?

Can we get some reality-based factual information first and then debate the issues on the merits?

Can we start with definition of terms?

It would be a good public service to untangle this mess.

Feb. 15 2012 12:42 PM
mike pappas from ny

best comedy show ever

Feb. 15 2012 12:42 PM
Tony from Downtown Brooklyn

They're so earnest. It would be cute if they weren't so ignorant and dangerous. The white underclass who continues to vote against their own best interests will be the downfall of both the white underclass and the country at large.

Feb. 15 2012 12:42 PM

Tea Party Inc®... INC...??? INKORPORATED™????

REALLY??!??!?!?!?

Oh, man this is precious!!!

PRECIOUS!!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:40 PM
Peter C from New Jersey

I may not agree with what they say and stand for completely, but I have a better understanding of it. This is why I love WNYC. You couldn't get this on FOX or MSMBC.

Feb. 15 2012 12:40 PM
Edward from NJ

So we don't have to worry about food safety because there haven't been major problems with it recently, but we do have to worry about soviet-style communism even though we haven't had major problems with it recently. Okay. Got it.

Feb. 15 2012 12:40 PM
J

Go, Leonard! These selfish boneheads have no sense, and no sense of the common good, for us or the planet.

Feb. 15 2012 12:40 PM
Otto Cosmopolis from LIC

Food safety equals a loss of liberty?

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM
ericf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_Patriots

from the article (for what it's worth):

In September 2010 the group announced it had received a $1,000,000 donation from an anonymous donor.[11] The money will be distributed to its affiliated groups and must be spent by Election Day on November 2, though it cannot be used to directly support any candidate.[11]

A 2011 investigation by the magazine Mother Jones found that the Tea Party Patriots organization was using its 501(c)(4) status to avoid disclosing its expenditures both to the IRS and to local contributors. The magazine reported that when local Tea Party groups pressed for more details on the group's expenses, they were removed from the umbrella organization and threatened with legal action.[12]

On December 15, 2011 the group's co-founder Mark Meckler was arrested at New York's LaGuardia Airport and charged with criminal possession of a weapon, a felony.[13] While checking baggage for a flight to Detroit, Meckler presented a Delta airlines agent with a locked case containing ammunition and an unloaded pistol, which he is not licensed by New York City to possess. He was released following arraignment.[14] [15]

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM
Herb SAmuels from New York

That me amend my previous post, these people are loony!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM
Juan from Yonkers

More people have died due to religion!

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM
Ohboy from NYC

The statement "Youth is wasted on the young" has never been more apt then hearing these two very misinformed youth ramble about a subject that although reading the back of a book cover does not mean you read the book-
Let me ask these two this- Do they own an Ipod? Do they Own an Ipad? Then they are the root of the issue- For the middle class to survive- You need to build in America for America- They talk about the federal reserve but do not realize it was created in the last century and is in fact against what the "founding fathers" wanted- They keep saying "we don't have time" Then start- give up ALL your worldly possessions- Lead by EXAMPLE - and also donate every penny from your book- to people over 70- as you say you wish to help......

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM
Jean Marie Offenbacher from Chelsea

Hi "Larry",

Jenny mentioned that she chose bankruptcy over TARP. Does she have a clue about the mechanism that allows her that choice to leave her debtors high and dry?
Where does she live since she gave up her home?

Mark so vociferous on government support for environmental initiatives and companies, policy and companies that will benefit the whole community; yet he fails to discuss the government support of oil industry - airlines paying no tax of fuel, invading Iraq and opening their fuel lines to American bank accounts.

Many died in the name of communism...yes, the U.S. was busy killing popularly elected governments and their supporters from Iran to Chile, because we regarded them as "communist".

Please excuse the messiness of this note.

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM

Communism?!?!?!?!

It's NOW 2012!!! The 21st century!!!

If you're afraid of the corporate in fascism controlling your life why would you be against the regulation of THOSE VERY SAME CORPORATIONS?!?!?!?

Huh?

Geeeeeeeezus!!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:39 PM
Patrick from Brooklyn

I'm hearing a whole lot of sweeping generalizations about overspending, and brushing aside the details and consequences of said sending cuts. Where are the solutions? Where is YOUR accountability exactly?

Feb. 15 2012 12:38 PM
EHA from Brooklyn

Lenny, you're getting rolled by this guy? It's a canard that our govt controls business (except in the weakest unfunded ways!). It's BUSINESS that's taken over the levers of power at pretty much all levels of government, by means of the flood of money they've been spending on lobbying...!

Feb. 15 2012 12:38 PM
PHILIOR from BROOKLYN

I am writing to praise Jenny Beth Martin for not answering Leonard's question whether she is liberal or conservative or libertarian; as "liberals" have nothing to do with liberty and "conservatives" are more progressive than so-called "progressives".
We need to teach ourselves to think about and resist a contemporary trend to pervert the meaning of the words, most notably, the meaning of the word marriage, which was well defined.
It is possible to satisfy the homosexuals' wish to be recognized as couple without destroying the common sense.

People need to analyze what they hear against the proper meaning of the words. Just start counting every "you-know" that you hear, or, perhaps, say; and you will be surprised how you do not "hear" what has been said.
As an example, listen to upcoming SoundCheck and notice all "you-know"s littering your ears.

Cheers!

Feb. 15 2012 12:38 PM

What's this distinction between the government and the people? The government is there to serve and protect the people; to be there in our time of need and protect our rights. It is big business that is a that to the people.

Feb. 15 2012 12:38 PM

Your guest just commented that it was easier to hold their state governments accountable. Evidently, they've forgotten that the same groups that spend billions lobbying in DC are also spending blllions to lobby state governments and legislatures.

The judge buying case in West Virginia is but one "poster child" for better state anti-corruption laws and enforcement.

Feb. 15 2012 12:38 PM
Rok Johnson from NYC

The Fascism that we are experiencing today is where the corporations run the government, as opposed to governments running corporations.

Feb. 15 2012 12:37 PM
sophia

It's much easier to bribe a state rep

And every economic indicator shows that SS is doing fine, the problem is Medicare and Medicaid and the problem with them is that the for profit insurance companies are relieved of the burden of the oldest and sickest and are reaping profits from those least in need.

Feb. 15 2012 12:37 PM
pina

Ask them where were they were Bush was spending all the money?

Feb. 15 2012 12:37 PM
Robin from Queens

That's not true -- he just said more people have died in the interest of communism than any other cause in history, and that's just not true at all. Why is LL letting this guy get away with disseminating misinformation?

Feb. 15 2012 12:37 PM
dustin

The claim that more people have died from communism than any other cause is absolutely deplorable. What about Christianity?

Feb. 15 2012 12:37 PM

Who runs into their state rep??

Feb. 15 2012 12:35 PM
anonyme

These people are hard to believe because they speak so generally and don't strike me as being very well informed. How are they qualified to be on this show?

Feb. 15 2012 12:35 PM
gene from NYC


"It pits us one American against the other. And that's bad."

You mean, like claiming that politically, _you_ are "an American" -- implying that anyone who doesn't agree with your political agenda is not??

Feb. 15 2012 12:35 PM
Oy from escaping to Canada

If he describes another progressive policy as a "fraud being perpetrated on the American people" I'm gonna smash my radio.

Feb. 15 2012 12:34 PM
Jon from Manhattan

Sadly, this couple are hysterics and like Chicken Little, they are blinded by the banality of their half-baked ideas.

Feb. 15 2012 12:34 PM
Jon Pope from Ridge, NY

Imagine that, 30+ years of waste and they are just getting mad now... Why should I care about what they say? To little to late and get to the back of the line please...

Feb. 15 2012 12:34 PM
kay from Brooklyn

I relish that these two ingnorami claim to represent the tea party. Nothing but platitudes, cut & clutter. Brava!

Feb. 15 2012 12:34 PM

Wow!

ANYONE can write a book!

Feb. 15 2012 12:34 PM
Rebecca from brooklyn

Yes- we have a safer nuclear program than japan because the department of Energy regulates it.
Hope these hypocrites didn't drive on public roads, use public transportation, breathe the regulated air while on their way to hock their book on publicly funded radio. If these poeple sell one book out of today they owe it to the social contract- the "Big" government.

Feb. 15 2012 12:34 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

The whole country, both the government AND definitely the people have consumed more than they produce and hence live on debt. It is cheaper to produce elsewhere, and so that's where industry goes. The people will have to reduce the standard of living by 50% before a new equilibrium is reached. OTherwise we will continue to drift, maybe further downwards.

Feb. 15 2012 12:33 PM
sophia

"stifled the nuclear industry"? LOLOLOL

The nuclear industry refuses to do anything without ENORMOUS govt subsidies.

And the biggest reason we haven't increased energy efficiency since the 70's is because Reagan destroyed all the Carter admins efforts in that area.

Feb. 15 2012 12:33 PM
aaron from harlem

so are issuing bonds to pay for infrastructure - water treatment, roads etc bad? by extension, are home mortages bad? they are very similar...

also, the fed's quantitative easing has had no effect on inflation - I suspect these issues are not as simple as your guests might think...

Feb. 15 2012 12:33 PM
Edward from NJ

DOE "stifles" nuclear energy? Seriously? Without significant government support, nuclear power would not be cost effective.

Feb. 15 2012 12:33 PM

You are absolutely correct about the need for nuclear power - the new safe type, of course. Finally, something I can agree with you about!

Feb. 15 2012 12:32 PM
Foxessa from NCY

Why are you giving these clowns all this air time?

Feb. 15 2012 12:32 PM
ba

Well done for staying calm Lennie!

Feb. 15 2012 12:32 PM
Observer from NYC

Where were these know-nothings when GW. Bush was creating the problems they are howling about... Why are you even engaging them, giving them a forum and calling them "Patriots."

Feb. 15 2012 12:31 PM
Patrick from Brooklyn

Does greed play any role in the Tea Party's views about future economic policies? Down-sizing the regulatory system has proven to be allow large companies to get away with so much

Feb. 15 2012 12:31 PM
Laura from UWS

Please go back over the transcript of this show and correct all the guests' mistakes and confusing conflations. For example, Greece. They completely missed key factors like rampant tax evasion, government failure to solve that problem, and also the need to investigate and reform the Greek Church's tax situation.

The amount of ignorance in this segment is alarming.
Are the guests shills or just victims of decades of powerful propaganda?
I'm hearing them spout talking points from right wing think tanks from decades ago!

For example: Role of government vs. corporations. Their words are straight out of corporate PR:
Google search terms: "friendly giants" "silver chains" will get you to Google Books, "PR!: A Social History of Spin" By Stuart Ewen

Feb. 15 2012 12:30 PM
Mark from Qns.

Thanks for pushing back a bit Leonard. I agree with other listeners that most of their theories are not well thought out.

Feb. 15 2012 12:30 PM
The Truth from Becky

Still focusing on "overspending" - we can talk about this until we are all blue in the face but the bottom line is, there is NO WAY the 99% should be paying more than the 1% in taxes!!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:30 PM

Lenny-

You're making a HEROIC attempt to make sense of these two.

Bravo.

Feb. 15 2012 12:30 PM
Justin from The East Village

I 2nd the comment from Eric from Brooklyn: Why the outrage about government overreach now??? We were in a profound financial crisis, unseen in our time. It would be remiss if the government didn't try to do something to address the collapse of the world economy. But during the 8 years of the Bush presidency, the government launched very expensive, deadly, orphan-producing, non-necessary wars of agression. Where was the outrage then? Or when the Bush team slapped the biggest FCC fine ever on a broadcaster because janet jackson let a little tittie slip out on TV? Was that not government overreach? And as a gay man, I very aware of how conservatives have tried over several years to control how I live and who I love...can government overreach be anymore offensive when it reaches directly into your bedroom? Where was all that outrage at the government when we really needed it?

Also...please inform your guests that at this point in time, the war in Iraq has been of a longer duration, and more expensive for the U.S., then WWII.

Feb. 15 2012 12:30 PM
vlad from Central New Jersey

You said the Debt Ratio vs GDP is at it's highest..

1) Do you mean Personal Debt or Govt. Debt?

2) In the Personal Debt arena, Student Loan Debt exceeded Credit Card Debt for the first time.

3) The Federal Tax that is collected today is at it's LOWEST rate vs. GDP in history... Ya think that's the reason our Debt is so high? If we PAYED for our services with adequate taxes (Bush Tax Cuts), then our debt would be much lower.

Feb. 15 2012 12:30 PM
gkoeppel

every now and then a humor segment is ok...

Feb. 15 2012 12:29 PM
Rebecca from NYC

It seems that The Tea Party doesn't seem to see reality and wants to live in an ideologically pure universe, hence no compromises, no government support of things such as basic scientific research, Clean Air Act, Social Security, etc.

How do they explain a better economy and no deficit under the Clinton taxes, and a worse economy leading to a terrible recession and massive increase in deficit and debt under Bush 2?

They don't make any sense.

Feb. 15 2012 12:29 PM

The solution to make Social Security solvent forever is to just raise the limit that one pays into it from $107K to closer to $200K. And anyone making that much money can easily afford to keep paying into FICA. This is one of the most important government programs ever! And despite what you say now, you youngsters, you'll be really happy it's there when you get there.

Feb. 15 2012 12:29 PM
The Truth from Becky

Yeah right, any excuse NOT to raise taxes on the rich...we know there is overspending now why shouldn't the Gov't raise taxes on the wealth to reduce the deficit again?

Feb. 15 2012 12:29 PM
art525 from Park Slope

In response to Michael D Robbins- the Koch brothers have pledged to spend 100 million dollars to defeat Obama in 2012. Their motivation is to advance their own interests which are not the intersts of the American public. They have surrepticiously supported anti environment legislation that would threaten their oil, gas and chemical businesses. The Koch brothers have been the major donors behind many Republican candidates, the Tea Party movement and efforts to discredit the science around man-made global warming. ANd Scott Walker is only the most obvious example of a politician bought and paid for by the Kochs.
There are a number of products that I avoid buying so as not to add to their coffers. Those include Brawny paper towels, QUilted Northern, Dixie cups and plates, Vanity Fiar paper products or anything else made by Georgia Pacific.

Feb. 15 2012 12:27 PM
JT from LI

They seem to think the Tea Party stands for something and that the perception of them is wrong but the perception is based on the public face of the party. The signs at all the rallies said a lot of things that these two don't seem to like but few, if any, Tea Party representatives spoke against the signs. As long as it got people motivated the party seemed to be all for it. Now that's what the party is seen to represent. They should have spoken up sooner.

Feb. 15 2012 12:27 PM
antonio from bayside

Leonard, please ask about taxes!
Income tax should be restructured...

Feb. 15 2012 12:27 PM
Bo from Granville, NY

What are the qualifications these people supposedly have to support their radical economic ideas? They sound completely naive and self-absorbed to me. Doomsaying and fearmongering.

Feb. 15 2012 12:27 PM
RAI from Manhattan

The Tea Party is smoking "tea", not drinking it.

Feb. 15 2012 12:27 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

One tough choice that people will have to make, is to move from 3000 square foot McMansion to a 1000 square apartment or condominium. They have to walk more and drive less. The country will have to downsize the whole standard living down to European or Japanese levels of living.

Feb. 15 2012 12:26 PM
Angela from Brooklyn

"The fundamental reason we're broke" includes two unfunded wars.

Feb. 15 2012 12:26 PM

Lenny - thanks very much for having these nuts on.

VERY interesting.

...scary, but very informative.

Feb. 15 2012 12:26 PM
Herb Samuels from New York

The only positive thing I can say about your guest is that they live in a different world than I.

Feb. 15 2012 12:25 PM
Mike Robbins from NYC

Meckler and Martin are correct -- the only issue is fiscal and financial soundness. Why do you think gold has gone from $250 per ounce to $1,750 per ounce in the last ten years? Mr. Lopate, we are like Greece. The compounding of our debt will bury the Nation. You ask your questions in your typically arching, cocked eye brow way. Wake up.

Feb. 15 2012 12:25 PM
lennief from Rochester, NY

I love you Leonard, and you are a great interviewer, but why are you wasting time with people who won't answer any substantive questions. They just say that they are sure most people agree with them. I, too, believe in the constitution and am at least as American as they are, but I am no tea party member in no small measure because I think none of their positions is thought through, and the proximity of its founding to President Obama's inauguration, cannot but make me wonder.

Maybe you might quote from their book and ask them what that phrase means.

Yeah! You finally got a real answer to a question on business subsidies. Well done.
Oops, spoke too soon. He's back to saying nothing.

Feb. 15 2012 12:25 PM
Emma from Westchester, NY

Leonard -- could you assk the guests what their view of the Times article this weekend that indicates how many middle class families are dependent on the government programs that the Tea Party would like to do away with?
Thanks.

Feb. 15 2012 12:25 PM
jeffrey from NYC

Are Mark and Jenny Noble Laureates in Economics?

the GDP % was higher during WW2
and this entire economic depression is a result of the Bush era? where were they then?
Their revolution is just that a Tempest in a Teacup.

Feb. 15 2012 12:25 PM

"This seems to be exactly what the Fed and the US Gov't are doing and exactly what the Tea Party is against. Why?"

Because the Tea Party is infused with faith in folk wisdom, 'common sense', i.e. suffused with amateur, unnuanced views - national policies extrapolated from half-baked observations at the personal/family/neighborhood level.

Feb. 15 2012 12:25 PM
Justin from The East Village

I 2nd the comment from Eric from Brooklyn: Why the outrage about government overreach now??? We were in a profound financial crisis, unseen in our time. It would be remiss if the government didn't try to do something to address the collapse of the world economy. But during the 8 years of the Bush presidency, the government launched very expensive, deadly, orphan-producing, non-necessary wars of agression. Where was the outrage then? Or when the Bush team slapped the biggest FCC fine ever on a broadcaster because janet jackson let a little tittie slip out on TV? Was that not government overreach? And as a gay man, I very aware of how conservatives have tried over several years to control how I live and who I love...can government overreach be anymore offensive when it reaches directly into your bedroom? Where was all that outrage at the government when we really needed it?

Feb. 15 2012 12:24 PM
Adam from Boston

Your guests care more about the smooth functioning of the system, and about adherence to pure principle, than they do about the people being crushed by that system. Their talk of equality of opportunity is garbage - there is a hereditary, monied class in our country, and that is the group that benefits from your guests' advocacy, whether they are knowing shills or unwitting pawns.

Feb. 15 2012 12:24 PM
jonathan from NYC

please point out that a) most of the federal govt's debt is owed to....the federal government. adn B) unlike greece we control our own currency, which happens to be the world's reserve currency.

we are NOT like Greece in any way, shape or form.

Feb. 15 2012 12:23 PM
Chuck Nice

Your guests are taking an overly simplistic stance on the severity of America's debt crisis. We are not at all like Greece; our current debt ratio is a direct result of a dramatically reduced economy. Spending is a problem, but a long term one. Our goal should be growth.

Feb. 15 2012 12:23 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

The people went into debt by moving from the inner cities to the suburbs starting after WWII, based on cheap gasoline, and build oversized homes, bought oversized cars, and lots of foreign made TV's and other gadgets, and wonder why the US is in debt? Any person or any organization that lives on debt will drown in debt. That's why there used to be debtor's prisons. Maybe we shouldn't have done away with them.

Feb. 15 2012 12:23 PM
john from Atlanta

Hi Leonard,

I have a question for your tea party guests:

Though I can sympathize w/ some of the concerns the tea party voices (gov't corruption, fiscal irresponsibility), I don't share their across-the-board suspicion of all gov't activities. In fact, the Georgia Tea Party is opposing a transportation referrendum to be held in metro Atlanta this summer; aren't there some projects that private enterprise can't accomplish alone (e.g. major infrastructure improvements, etc.)? The referrendum (aka TSPLOST) would impose a 1 cent sales tax to pay for road, transit, and airport improvements over the next 10 years – work Atlanta desperately needs to remain competitive and attractive to the private sector. How would your guests reconcile these competing interests?

Thank you,
John

Feb. 15 2012 12:23 PM
The Truth from Becky

Tea Party members are Republicans, there is no separation there. My problem is with the "take our country back" and "real Americans" statements that they often make. What are the rest of us if they are the real Americans?

Feb. 15 2012 12:21 PM
Rok Johnson from NYC

By all appearances, most of the Tea Party initiatives go against basic economic theory. Basic economic principles point to the idea that in the face of deflation and general productivity contraction, the government should indeed run deficits large enough to prevent the contraction and hopefully spur growth. This seems to be exactly what the Fed and the US Gov't are doing and exactly what the Tea Party is against. Why?

Feb. 15 2012 12:19 PM

Koo-Koo...

...ka choo!!

Feb. 15 2012 12:18 PM
Edward from NJ

Prior to declining government support and losing her home, did Ms. Martin deduct her mortgage interest on her tax return? Because that was a handout too.

Feb. 15 2012 12:18 PM
Joe

If your guests want to stick to the original Constitution, then they must agree that Air Force is unconstitutional- there weren't any planes back then.
What's their position on corporate welfare, offshoring our jobs, and virtually unlimited funding for military industrial complex? Or do they just want to get rid of social programs they don't like?

Feb. 15 2012 12:18 PM
dan k from chelsea

so if health care costs spiraled out of control and forced the closing of nearly all hospitals, would they be deemed by your guests as "not to big or important to fail"?

Feb. 15 2012 12:17 PM
Matt

Precisely how is "government so intrusive in [their] lives"? They weren't forced to take TARP money and turned it down?

Feb. 15 2012 12:17 PM
Antonio from bayside

David, one thing I think we'll both agree on is the Presidents power is limited ..President Obama could have tried to end the Iraq war sooner, but because of the "status of forces agreement over iraq" he couldn't. Maybe that's politics...

Feb. 15 2012 12:17 PM
BC from Hell's Kitchen

Wow, they sound so sensible-- they aren't screaming and if they are wearing goofy hats, we can't see them.

But for these writers to say politicians shouldn't compromise in DC is to say that the Tea Party Patriots' policies must be absolutely certifiably correct and that all other beliefs are incorrect. This is pure free market dogmatism... it's virtually religion, not to be trusted. Most Americans believe in moderation to appeal to the majority, through a sort of Hegelian dialectic of compromise.

Feb. 15 2012 12:16 PM
nyce from nyc

CNBC was at the time owned by GE which received billions as part of the GE Financial services that tanked and threatened the whole corp.
Rick Santelli on CNBC was getting gov' funds as he was ranting.

Feb. 15 2012 12:16 PM
David C

Hi Leonard,

Can you please ask your guests how their beliefs in small government, individual responsibility, etc would be substantially different from the US in 1900. For example, in 1900 the federal government was much smaller, the 16th Amendment wasn't yet ratified, the was no Social Security, FDA, etc. Was life much better then?

Thanks,
D

Feb. 15 2012 12:15 PM
Laura from UWS

CORRECTION: Original Boston Tea Party was not about 'taxation without representation' but rather against preferential treatment given to the big multinational corporation of the day.

See:
"Historian Benjamin Carp’s latest project is a book on the Boston Tea Party, and he’s taking a global perspective"
http://tuftsjournal.tufts.edu/2009/01_1/features/02/
The British East India Company was the main purveyor of tea to Europe and to the American colonies. The company did business in Bengal, where it was blamed for making a devastating famine worse by hoarding rice, resulting in price increases.
“The company was getting rich off Bengal and behaving poorly,” Carp says. “Americans knew about this and worried they would be next.”

Feb. 15 2012 12:13 PM

<click>

Feb. 15 2012 12:10 PM
David

Eric from Brooklyn, you wrote: "Were these two people as outraged by President Bush as they are by President Obama in terms of what compelled them to organize this movement? Would they have done everything they've done since Obama took office if there had been a theoretical third Bush administration in which these policies that anger them started?"

I agree 100% with you. But you can turn that question around and ask that of the people who were against the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions of Bush (and rightly so, I might add) yet are now deafeningly silent when Nobel "Peace" Price winner Obama not only did not immediately end those two criminal actions by Bush, but actually escalated the war in Afghanistan and started drone bombings in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia.

And both presidents supported the corporate welfare bailouts of the banks. (Then-Senator Obama voted for them.)

Feb. 15 2012 11:06 AM
John A.

Saying "Taxed Enough Already" is a lie for large numbers of Americans, millions really, while the National unpaid debt is so huge. The rich are hiding behind the poor on this one, cheap stuff.

Feb. 15 2012 10:59 AM
Eric from Brooklyn

Were these two people as outraged by President Bush as they are by President Obama in terms of what compelled them to organize this movement? Would they have done everything they've done since Obama took office if there had been a theoretical third Bush administration in which these policies that anger them started?

What do they think of the kind of person who would shout out "yes!" to the question of whether someone without health insurance should just die? What did that moment signify to them about their own beliefs and rhetoric?

Feb. 15 2012 09:40 AM
Michael D. Robbins from New York

All I ever hear from the left is "KOCH BROTHERS! KOCH BROTHERS! KOCH BROTHERS!". I do not subscribe to their views in lock-step. They are, however, United States citizens and are entitled to foster and support any legal views they have. Here's to the KOCH BOTHERS!

Feb. 14 2012 06:59 PM
Hans L from NJ

By describing the Tea Party movement as "grass roots" you perpetuate a myth. The Tea Party is skillfully guided and financially backed by the Koch brothers and other of the "one percent" looking out for their own interests. It may have started out as grass roots, but that is a misleading characterization now.

Feb. 14 2012 05:59 PM

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