Streams

The NYPD and "The Third Jihad"

Thursday, January 26, 2012

Elizabeth Goitein, co-director of the Liberty and National Security Program at the Brennan Center for Justice and Tom Robbins, investigative journalist in residence at the CUNY School of Journalism and former longtime columnist at the Village Voice, discuss the investigation into the NYPD's involvement in the controversial film "The Third Jihad."

Watch the full video below. Note: Ray Kelly appears at 55:45 in a section on "Nuclear Threat"

Guests:

Elizabeth Goitein and Tom Robbins
News, weather, Radiolab, Brian Lehrer and more.
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Comments [60]

These Muslim organizations and their allies call this film Anti-Muslim and racist propaganda. In this country of free speech, you can call it whatever you like. Propaganda is a combination of twisting some facts and adding lies to promote the results of the twists, a good example is the Nazi representations of Jews to garner support in Germany for the genocidal removal of the Jewish race among them and all that they would conquer.
This film documents through a collage of views from radical Muslims around the world with an agenda of domination not unlike the Nazis. If you look at what the 'actors' are saying in the movie, it looks more like an Anti-Western/American movie when you consider who is saying what. Since no lies were dubbed onto what these people were saying, then this documents the truth of what they are saying. To call it propaganda is a total lie and call it racist is the same since when are radical Muslims considered a race? And does this mean these complainers are sympathetic to the radical Muslim's cause if they think attacking radical Muslims are also attacks on them?

Feb. 01 2012 01:48 PM

Tom Robbins is no stranger to putting political correctness above accuracy. He embodies well the dishonesty of the current political left, having, while still at the Village Voice, mischaracterized Dutch politician Geert Wilders as a far right Islamophobic fanatic, and Wilders' followers and supporters as contemporary versions of pre-WWII fascists and Nazis. One has only to listen to any interview with, or speech by, Wilders to detect that it's Robbins who is the fanatic.

Jan. 29 2012 07:54 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSOWKdeuNA8

Jan. 27 2012 09:40 PM

No commentary - just the headlines:

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/south/Rushdie-India-Speech-Cancelled-Amid-Threats-137978338.html

Jan. 27 2012 08:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuZhcUdEUPA&context=C3078568ADOEgsToPDskKdDJ6fnBPSO6ap_cJaXzN2

Jan. 27 2012 08:44 PM
Everton from Deer Park, NY

After visiting several Chinese factories a few years ago, I will never put anything on or in my body that is made in china.

Jan. 27 2012 11:28 AM
Howard Tarplin from South Orange, NJ

Give him Hell, Brian.

Jan. 27 2012 10:22 AM

Hey Stuart!!!

Why should ANYONE read the bible??

The constant with ALL these religious NUTS; Jews, X-tains and Muslims is the Bible and COMPLETE INTOLERANCE.

Put the Bible through the damn shredder!!!

Maybe we'll be able to evolve into an actual CIVILization!!!

Jan. 27 2012 09:15 AM
Nusrat Rizvi from Rowayton, Connecticut

Islam is not a religion but a sickness. So says Winston Churchill and our own
John Quincy Adam.
Obama on the other hands calls Islam a great religion, leaving it entirely up to the reader to decide whom to believe.

Jan. 27 2012 05:46 AM
Steven

Brian Lehrer should invite Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, the Muslim director of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, who partially narrated the film, to speak about (i.e., in defense of) the film's content.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6rLQwV82Xs

A poster above, tmcmh, refers to the film's tapping "into an emotional fear of the other, the unknown." I'd say that what it taps into is hardly "unknown." Rather, it's well-established and well-known.

tmcmh also claims that the film resorts to "fearful kneejerk anti-Muslim thinking" rather than "rational thinking about the range of threats we face." He does not support this claim. How could he? With all that has happened to date, can any 'rational' person -- as opposed to a stork with its head happily in the sand -- take the position that 'radical Islam' is *not* a 'rational' threat?

It's probably more accurate that say that tmcmh appears to be a "kneejerk" liberal, always at the ready to come to the aid of those who cry "Islamophobia" at even the slightest criticism of Islam.

Jan. 27 2012 01:25 AM
Tom LI

Duped...? Didnt anyone watch it before allowing its viewing...?

Saying they were duped is about the biggest political-lie I've heard in some time in NYC.

Jan. 26 2012 06:21 PM
Stuart from NYC

John A.
To me the original message of the Holy Land is to not fight for the Holy Land.

Jan. 26 2012 12:05 PM

- - -

That's true, if you're reading the Liberal Fantasy version of the Bible.

However, if you read the actual Bible, it's a bit different...

LOL...

Jan. 26 2012 04:51 PM

This is MONDOWEISS take on the film.

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/the-agenda-behind-the-anti-muslim-film-screened-to-nypd-protecting-greater-israel.html

Governments do not like it, when a slice of life in their countries, show
them in a negative light, regardless of how true to life the depiction might be.

Jan. 26 2012 01:46 PM


The Law In These Parts - Trailer
http://vimeo.com/34886369

5 Broken Cameras
http://vimeo.com/15843191

These videos, also depict a slice of life, that some may object to.

But they are a reality, they took place, they take place.

You cannot hide the Sun with your hand.

Jan. 26 2012 01:38 PM

I remember the incident in Beslan, Russia, where Muslims took over a school,
in which 186 children were slaughtered.
That took place, it happened.
In Iran, as in most Muslim/Sharia Law dominated countries, women are
told how to dress and are punished if they do not.
On MEMRI TV, there are plenty of shows depicting the
Islam - Wife Beating Etiquette, such as this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChnpaMK1oLQ.
There are plenty others.
In Muslim/Sharia Law dominated countries, women are routinely murdered
by their family members and the murderers, usually the husband, brother, etc.
are not locked up, not in prison. On the contrary, murder of a female
member of a family is to be expected in a Muslim/Sharia Law dominated country,
in order to save the family honor.
I don't see any episode in the entire video, that is an outright lie.
The problem is not the the video is lying, but that it is accurate and
it portrays Muslims in a negative light.
But it's all true.

Jan. 26 2012 01:14 PM
John A.

To me the original message of the Holy Land is to not fight for the Holy Land.

Jan. 26 2012 12:05 PM
Wolf from NYC

The one clear thing that this documentary reinforces is my belief that religion is a very personal thing, and that is should stay that way. ORGANIZED RELIGION OF ALL TYPES ARE AT THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL OF MAN AGAINST MAN.

Jan. 26 2012 12:03 PM
Calls'em from The Indian Ocean

Anyone who has read any history of Islam including very pro-muslim works by people like Karen Armstrong know that the entire history of Islam is based on violent, greedy and rapacious expansion via war, murder, rape, genocide (convert or die (yes that's free choice)), conquest and oppression. Islamic expansion was substantially unchallenged for 500 years of bloodshed until the 1st Crusade. The Muslims and their self hating apologists in the west continue to perpetuate an enlightenment canard that was aimed at the Catholic Church by those aligned with the Protestant reformation... that Christians (then Catholics) were violent, greedy and expansionists when it fact that were merely fighting to take back their holy land from the usurpers.

Jan. 26 2012 11:52 AM

The analogy to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is right. This movie (I don't care who made it and we have only his word for his alleged faith) stitches together lies, half-truths and non-sequiturs at a rapid pace that is obviously meant to dull critical thinking. The use of scary music and random images of people shouting, shooting and so on is not meant to build a rational case but to tap into an emotional fear of the other, the unknown. It's done in a slick way, consistent with what I see on The Clarion Fund website, but its method and its objective are unmistakable: replace rational thinking about the range of threats we face, and the allies we have, with fearful kneejerk anti-Muslim thinking.

Jan. 26 2012 11:27 AM
fuva from Harlemworld

Those of you expressing concern about radical Islam's threat to the West and the robustness of the anti-terrorism infrastructure don't seem to understand how damaging Browne and Kelly's handling of this episode could be to those very things.

Jan. 26 2012 11:25 AM
Calls'em from The Indian Ocean

~~~ I hope you liberals will be happy under Sharia Law... with its clothing police, honor killings and mutilations of gays and women and genocide against Jews & Christians. That will be fun, won't it? Yep, that's one heck of a peaceful religion. Note: the hate exposed right in your own city. Radical Islam is here in America and it hates all Jews, Christians, atheists, all other religions and even hates the few liberal and the many moderate Muslims. Hundreds of millions of propagandized people supported by Islamic dictatorships are at war with the west and they are bound and determined to win. They are counting on the silence of moderate Muslims which to date has been deafening.

Jan. 26 2012 11:18 AM

Wait a minute! What about radical X-tains? Have you been to a "Mega" church? Have you listened to Rick Santorum, Rick Perry??? What about radical Jews? Have you walked through a Hasidic neighborhood, recently??

You could paste together equally scary footage of any of these nuts. They're ALL right here, in the USA.

What about theses radical Buddhists??? Or radical Confucianists??? Those dudes are REALLY scary!!

RELIGION: JUST SAY NO!

Jan. 26 2012 11:17 AM
Calls'em from The Indian Ocean

Islam is at war with the west. This is the WAR that you don't know about. The public is being denied the truth. It is a war about religion. Our cops and firefighters need to know what they are dealing with. There have been over 18,000 Islamic terrorist attacks in the past 10 years around the world. I would show this video to every every government employee and every school kid in America. The Islamic community in America has been suspiciously silent after 1993 and after 2001. Not, universally silent, but almost so. "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Jan. 26 2012 11:04 AM
Alan from NJ

I have one more comment to make about this. I've heard "moderate Muslims" criticized for not taking a stronger stand against radical Islam.

Isn't this ironic then, that when moderate Muslims DO take a stand, the liberals attack them?

Jan. 26 2012 10:58 AM
John A.

Robert from NYC,
I'm reading just now that it was a Publisher in Atlanta (Andrew Adler of the Atlanta Jewish Times) who got the dismissal for talk of coup detat(sp).

Jan. 26 2012 10:55 AM
Maggie from Brooklyn

This film and its placement with the NYPD is just a part of Sheldon Adelson's grand strategy to demonize Muslims, and particularly Palestinians, in support of right wing policies regarding Israel, both there and in the U.S. His propaganda is also evident when Newt Gingrich,the candidate he is bankrolling, stated that Palestinians are an "invented people".

Jan. 26 2012 10:44 AM
Henry from NJ

Tom Robbins referred to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as having been widely distributed at the beginning of the century. That vile canard can be found all over the Middle East to this day.

Jan. 26 2012 10:43 AM

Add "psychotic paranoia" to Martin's resume.

Jan. 26 2012 10:41 AM
Stuart from NYC

Ive seen the film, and I would recommend anybody interested in this story see it as well. Contrary to the news stories about it, I think the film was very clear that it was not targeting all Muslims. However, it does show that support for radical ideas is more widespread than we might think.

The wider issue here is this - why does ANY criticism of Islam automatically get branded as 'anti-Islam'? Are we that far gone into PC land that we can't talk about any real threat without being braded as bigoted?

The fact is that the film portrays a real threat that is often not talked about in the media. And if all we focus on is labeling any criticism as unjustified, it makes the threat that much more dangerous.

Jan. 26 2012 10:37 AM
Harry E. from NYC

I have watched the movie; have had many conversations about it with a variety of people including Muslims. The description of it as being inflammatory is correct.
It was meant to be inflammatory in that it was supposed to excite the senses; to warn us of an imminent threat and get a discussion started. Obviously it accomplished its goal; however I’m surprised that it took so long to get it discussed.

Having said the above, what is the big brouhaha all about? The only problem as I see it is that the NYPD handled this issue terribly. They should have admitted fully that they did show it and move on.

I hear a lot of criticism of the movie saying that it is inflammatory, it puts the Muslim community in a bad light, etc., etc. However, I have not heard anyone say that it is not factual. Where are the lies?

All your guests were critics of the movie and the decision by the NYPD to show it. A better format for discussing this issue would have been to have the most vocal critic (a spokesman for CAIR) and the director of the documentary on your show. CAIR would then be able to expose the lies they claim are in the movie and the director can either refute or admit to them.

The fact is that everything in the movie including Ray Kelly’s comments is true and factual. Enough of the irrational political correctness. I agree that not all Muslims are terrorists but most terrorists today are Muslim. Until the vast majority of the Muslim community speak out against the terrorists among them; stop their Imams and teachers from teaching hate, unfortunately they will be looked at suspiciously.

Jan. 26 2012 10:36 AM
Alan from NJ

It is shocking that the New York liberals are clamoring to APOLOGIZE for this film, and now everybody is back-pedaling. It documents the hate speech of a virulent strain of Islam that is all too real. This woman, Elizabith Goitein, is psychotic. This is FAR beyond mere denial.

The film makes it eminently clear it does not describe all of Islam, and has been produced by a Muslim. On the other hand, there are some very disturbing things going on around the nation and it is not being covered. In truth, it's being suppressed. Un-freaking believable that she can be taken in the least bit seriously, or these so-called Muslim groups that want to suppress the truth!

Jan. 26 2012 10:29 AM
yourgo from Astoria

I am a diehard NYC liberal but it is times like these when I can understand why conservatives question the sensitivity levels of liberals.

If anyone needs to be examining and be trained in the extremist elements of our society it is the NYPD. It is training within their organization and not meant for public consumption.

Ray Kelly should definitly not resign!
Dont even think about it Mr Kellly.

Jan. 26 2012 10:28 AM
Robert from NYC

Elizabeth is correct, we should be readying for a "terrorist" attach not a muslim terrorist attack but a terrorist attack. Just this morning I heard a story that a journalist who was fired at a California Jewish newspaper had called for the assassination of President Obama because of his Israel policy. So there are threats coming from all sides not just Muslim terrorists. There are Arian terrorist groups here in our own country and we all know about those for decades. Dump Kelly, never did like him. He's a thug and I've said that right here many times.

Jan. 26 2012 10:28 AM
Susan from nyc

The NYPD need to be completely overhauled and retrained to be human beings and not mindless stick swinging, gun shooting robots who criminalize everyone.

Jan. 26 2012 10:28 AM
Vanessa Merton from Hastings-on-Hudson NY

Is it such a radical notion to suggest that maybe for such complex and subtle subjects as alleged risk from ethnic/religious/cultural groups, NYPD ask officers to READ articles, books, and other print material that is less inherently inflammatory and would provide much more actual information per hour of training time? All this money is spent on movies that can't be easily edited, changed, and adapted as conditions change, and that reinforce an illiterate, technology-dependent approach to acquisition of information.

Jan. 26 2012 10:27 AM
Stuart Waldman from Manhattan

Why is anyone surprised? Ray Kelly is a uniformed thug. He proved it during the Republican Convention, during the Occupy eviction, stop and frisk, and this issue among others. H

Jan. 26 2012 10:27 AM

Among those clamoring for investigations into "radical Islam" are full-fledged supporters of radical IRA (like Peter King) or the Irgun or the Stern Gang (like Pamela Geller). But we can be absolutely certain that NO videos will be tolerated demonizing _across the board_ all of the Irish or all Jews. Such moves would be racist bigoted and reprehensible. That so many have no problem demonizing all Arabs and all Muslims (and conflating Muslims and Arabs in the process) tells more about the American racists than it does about any Muslim or any Arab.

Adelson, by the way, is a violent supporter of Israeli atrocities in the West Bank and Gaza. But that will get no mention on the air of WNYC.

Jan. 26 2012 10:26 AM
Dubya from Soho

This guest clearly did not watch the film. It was NOT about the mainstream Muslim community, it was clearly stated the movie was about radical Islam. Big difference and completely legitimate.

Jan. 26 2012 10:25 AM
H. Judith from Sunnyside

It seems like they are trying to scapegoat someone in the NYPD - I don't know how they select and vent training material, but if the police commissioner is interviewed for a movie one can imagine why someone thought that this something that Kelly had signed off on - as he appeared in the film!

Jan. 26 2012 10:23 AM
Amy from Manhattan

It took over a year for the public to find out about this? Is that usual for the NYC govt.? Or for the police dept.?

Jan. 26 2012 10:21 AM
Woody from NYC

I had no idea Brian Lehrer had so many undercover cops as fans :)

It isn't just that Kelly was in the film but Kelly and Paul Browne have repeatedly lied about this and numerous other NYPD offenses:
http://gothamist.com/2012/01/25/10_more_whopping_lies_told_by_the_n.php

"Bloomberg's army" is a publicly accountable government agency and needs to operate transparently, not repeatedly lying about quotas, racist policing, stop-and-frisk policies, drug planting, arrests of journalists, etc. etc. etc.

Jan. 26 2012 10:18 AM
James from nyc

You guys better watch what you say.

NYPD can start frisking reporters like yourselves, the way they do colored folks.

Jan. 26 2012 10:18 AM

How many times must it be noted that if this film had targeted ANY other ethnic group, Kelly would already have been forced to resign. Instead, the NYPD responds with its standard stonewalling. Meanwhile, conservatives on this site and elsewhere rush to defend the most vile, racist garbage. Sobering.

Michael from Manhattan is absolutely right in noting the obvious flag on the White House as a reference to lies about Obama's religious affiliation. It is deeply revolting that the _same_ conservatives who would go ballistic over any similar attack on one of their darlings are so eager to defend this kind of hate speech.

Jan. 26 2012 10:18 AM
Frank from NYC

I'm with others here - Our police department needs to be exposed to a variety of items, including this. A broad spectrum of material can only make for better cops!

Jan. 26 2012 10:17 AM
Robert from NYC

I think the continuous loop is where a video is played over and over again either as the full presentation or part of a varied presentation. Many companies show these on screens throughout their companies with messages about the company's progress or work ethic etc.

Jan. 26 2012 10:17 AM
William from Manhattan

How did The Clarion Fund get access to the Commissioner for the interview in the first place?

Jan. 26 2012 10:16 AM
MP from Brooklyn

Am I the only one who thinks this is a tempest in a teapot?

Jan. 26 2012 10:16 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

Brian....You haven't seen the film ???!!!

How can you describe it as broadly blaming Muslims ??!!

Jan. 26 2012 10:16 AM
Tracey

I saw the movie "the third jihad" and it was not racist. It said that poverty and despair are the breeding grounds for radical islam - poverty and despair like you find in ghettos all around the world, and in jails in the US where minorities are disproportionately incarcerated. When Peter King has hearings on Terroism, he would do well to investigate the poverty and despair in American jails and American ghettos. It isn't mosques or Islam that are breeding terrorism - it's poverty and despair.

This movie makes a distinction between Islam & radical Islam.

Jan. 26 2012 10:14 AM
Michael from Manhattan

Mr. Lehrer, surely the placement of some sort of Muslim flag on top of the White House wasn't just about Islamic domination of the United States but a clear perpetuation of the ridiculous canard that our president is a Muslim.

Jan. 26 2012 10:13 AM
fuva from Harlemworld

True, I have not yet watched the video.
But Kelly and Browne have, and they are distancing themselves from this video that they participated in and allowed to be screened for many officers. On top of that, they bold-faced LIED about all of this. The blow to credibility is major, and around a very sensitive national security-related issue, no less.

Jan. 26 2012 10:08 AM
Jim

While I do not usually find myself agreeing with Chuzzlewit, he is correct that you should watch the movie before expressing an opinion on the Kelly issue.

Jan. 26 2012 10:04 AM
Calls'em from The Indian Ocean

Our cops and firefighters need to know what they are dealing with. There have been over 18,000 Islamic terrorist attacks in the past 10 years around the world. I would show this video to every city employee and every school kid. The Islamic community in America has been suspiciously silent after 1993 and after 2001. Not, universally silent, but almost so. "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Jan. 26 2012 10:01 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

WNYC listeners should NOT just skip to Kelly's "appearance" in the film....they should be required to watch EVERYTHING before it. (Obviously, "Fuva from Harlemworld" didn't.)

Then, yes, please watch the Commissioner...at no point does he mention Islam or Muslims...it's a short clip of one of the many generic interviews he has given about his fears of a dirty bomb in NYC.

Can there be a more egregious rhetorical self-contradiction than “National Security” and “Brennan Center for Justice” mentioned in the same sentence?

Jan. 26 2012 09:59 AM
fuva from Harlemworld

Chuzzlewit, you're conflating here. Surprise, surprise...See if you can appreciate this nuance:
At issue is not whether there exists "radical Islamists" set on blowing up America, but whether the video suggests that these types are representative of all Muslims, painting them with a broad, negative brush and treating them as a monolith.

Jan. 26 2012 09:57 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

WOW....just watched the video now posted....and it's GREAT !!!!!
This video is about RADICAL Islam....what's the problem??!!!
(There is no overall condemnation of Muslims.) The video's depiction of the call for widespread disparagement of gays, women's rights, Christians across the Islamic world.....duh!!!

Dr. Jasser, a devout Muslim, is a courageous hero ....may Allah (or whomever) keep him safe from the threats on his life.

I dare the cowardly Lefties here to watch the whole thing....it's brutal. They might need to abandon their self-righteous talking points.

The contretemps over this video is another sign of the suicide of liberal Western Civilization.

There will be no Brian Lehrer Show in a world governed by these guys in the video

Jan. 26 2012 09:39 AM
fuva from Harlemworld

Kelly's "anti-terrorist" effectiveness depends on his ability to be balanced and measured around the very sensitive issue of the treatment of Muslims. If this film is as incindiary and bigoted as it's described, Kelly's participation in it's production is a major failure. That it was screened, and that Kelly and Paul Browne straight up LIED about these things (once again), is dead azz wrong, seriously compromising their credibility and warranting dramatic redress.

Jan. 26 2012 09:21 AM
Martin Chuzzlewit from Manhattan

While the overwhelming majority of Muslims aren’t terrorists, the overwhelming majority of terrorists are now Muslim. Whether it is murderous mayhem in Lahore, Karachi, Kabul, Baghdad, Mumbai, Jordan, Tel Aviv, Moscow, London, Ft. Hood, Madrid or Bali …. a belief in Islam’s dictates has been behind it.
(What would the apologetic Liberal Left do without Tim McVeigh’s single act over 25 years ago to use as a pathetic counterargument? And there has been no anti-abortion related murder in NYC….ever...…another bogus argument hyped the anti-western Left.)

Mary Kissel of the Asia Wall Street Journal reported (on 3-10-11) that there have been 51(!) known terrorist plots/attacks in the U.S. since 9-11 which involved a total of 130 people. All but 2 of these 130 people were Muslim. OK, so only 98.5% of terrorists in the last decade were Muslims. Shame on you, Mr. Kelly

Jan. 26 2012 08:23 AM
Ed from Larchmont

And Daniel Pearl was killed on January 23rd, 2002. Day after the anniversary, pointing to a connection between abortion and national security.

Jan. 26 2012 08:10 AM
john from office

Go on line and look at the beheading of Daniel Pearl, that is the greatest teaching film of all time. Lets you know that you too can be beheaded for being an American and god forbid a Jew. Sorry, Kelly is all that stands between us and the beheading nuts, that do exist.

Who else are we to monitor? Jews in Westchester?? We monitor those that have shown themselves to be disloyal and a threat. While not all muslims, enough to create a serious threat. Try policing yourselves.

Brian and his followers will not be happy till we are once again naked before a serious threat. Leading him to have more programs about why were we not prepared.

Kelly is a hero, who has kept this city and nation safe for 11 years and we are at war with radical islam, which has appeared on our shores.

Jan. 26 2012 07:19 AM

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