Photo credit: @julesdwit.
A not-for-profit media organization supported by people like you.
Michael Mukasey, former U.S. Attorney General (2007-2009) and partner at Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, praises and defends the NYPD intelligence division against accusations of entrapment in a recent Daily News op-ed.
Gary from Queens stop putting @ in front of everyone's name
Mukasey is a frightful individual who represents much of what is wrong in America. He uses fear to suppress rights. I have not heard a Republican speak this week on NPR who has made any sense at all.
@Laila from New York:
You speak from ignorance and you don't hear too well. Mukasey said that Moroccans are "overly represented" among those who have been responsible for violent attacks or attempts. Not racist when the facts support that statement.
The FBI and indeed many people differ on the issue of EIT. I find that those who oppose it for moral reasons look for excuses of any kind to support their view----factual or not.
See my article: http://americandaily.com/article/10292
Marc A. Thiessen wrote in his book that there was a cultural-religious dynamic when using EIT on Jihadists. They're belief system gives them permission to confess and give up secrets after facing EIT----or as you call it, "torture." They gave up information that way. In addition, EIT is not used to elicit information. It's used as a baseline test to determine when the detainee is telling the truth. At that point, EIT is not used thereafter.
We should leave these matters to experts. The situation determines the efficacy.
Before the Normandy invasion, Winston Churchill rounded up all the known nazi spies in England and had pistols pointed at their heads, with the option to call their handlers and inform them that the D-Day landing would be on the beaches of Calais, or to remain silent and take a bullet in their skulls. They all made the calls.
There are times when torture works, and there are times when it must be used.
I am surprised that there was no call-in for Mr. Mukasey, and that Mr. Lehrer did not have a representative of the FBI on to refute the former's statements. He is a proponent of torture, and therefore his words should be taken with more than a grain of salt. His cavalier comment that somehow Moroccans in totality are prone to terrorism exposes his racism. I hope that Mr. Lehrer will now invite a spokesman from the FBI to explain their reasons for not participating in this case. I tend to give the FBI much more credibility than I give the NYPD in matters of "terrorism".
... did Rove even finish high school???
@John from Queens:
"Mr. Mukasey allowed corrections officers to beat up innocent detained Muslims."????
Prove that. What's your source?
"In the Justice Dept., he helped Karl Rove maliciously prosecute innocent Democratic candidates."???
Rove never worked in the Justice Dept. He's not even a lawyer!
Mukasey accurately describes waterboading and then baldly asserts it is not torture. The president, a former constitutional scholar, is apparently ready to abandon habeas corpus. I do not recognize my own country and I feel ill.
A graduate of the Torquemada School of Criminal Justice. What a loathsome human being.
May we never have to endure another Attorney General with such atrocious values.
please water board this joker.
He is an embarrassment to the US government.
Oh my god, this is just grotesque. These are the people that are dragging America into the muck.
"Waterboarding is not torture."
A sociopath. I think he actually needs to experience waterboarding, so he actually knows something about it.
Independent of this issue:
As a judge after 9/11, Mr. Mukasey allowed corrections officers to beat up innocent detained Muslims.
In the Justice Dept., he helped Karl Rove maliciously prosecute innocent Democratic candidates.
Posted at 10:44 AM ET, 11/15/2011On waterboarding: Let’s stick to the factsBy Marc A. Thiessen
QUOTE:The Post writes that waterboarding “has been considered torture since at least the Spanish Inquisition.” As I document meticulously in my book “Courting Disaster,” waterboarding as practiced by the CIA bears no resemblance whatsoever to the water torture employed during the Spanish Inquisition, or for that matter by Imperial Japan, the Khmer Rouge or Nazi Germany. I am certain The Post can make an effective case against waterboarding without comparing the men and women of our intelligence community to Medieval torturers.
The Post writes that supporters of enhanced interrogation “have asserted that waterboarding led to important intelligence gains. It is not clear this is true.” Yes it is. In response to a direct question about the role of enhanced interrogation in the bin Laden operation, then-CIA Director Leon Panetta confirmed that, “Obviously there was, there was some valuable intelligence that was derived through those kind of interrogations.” His immediate predecessor, Mike Hayden, was even more explicit, declaring, “Let the record show that when I was first briefed in 2007 about the brightening prospect of pursuing bin Laden through his courier network, a crucial component of the briefing was information provided by three CIA detainees, all of whom had been subjected to some form of enhanced interrogation.”
Mukasey has no credibility. He was a supporter of torture and human rights abuses as U.S. Attorney general. If the suspect was of limited abilities and could only have been able to obtain the knowledge and materials to build a bomb from a paid police informer, as the FBI has said, then the police should have paid attention to more credible and important threats.
I'm willing to bet that, given unlimited funding for sting operations, an unlimited number of mentally deficient people can be duped and convicted -- for just about any potential offense.
Is that MuCrazy speaking?
I love that guy, he is so funny and rude.
@Brian from Litchfield, CT
Troops are not permitted to use EIT, let alone torture. It's trained experts in CIA who employ it.
Marc A. Thieson, editorial writer at the Washington Post, has written extensively on torture vs. EIT, and how it has been used effectively. YUou can read his book or go into the Post archives to learn more. Your answers are there.
@Leo from Queens:
Your diatribe is wrong on so many grounds. Congress had a chance to define torture. It didn't. Mukasey discovered that the method of waterboarding (just 3 detainees!!) was nothing like the method used by Imperial Japan and numerous other treacherous regimes in history. The method used on our detainees was the same used to train our own troops----merely SIMULATING drowning.
You say jihadists may:
be "troubled, isolated individuals who should have been given urgent help to address their emotional and mental problems"?!!]
If so, then all hate groups----like the kkk----should be so treated. The Jihadist you wish to give psych counseling read in his holy koran:
"The Last Day shall not come until the rocks and trees cry out, "There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him".
The religion of peace. You want to cure him of his religion?!
The remainder of your polemic lacks facts to support it. If anything, Bloomberg was far to solicitous of OWS. Too politically correct to tell them that they were violating fair use of the public commons for months on end. No other group would have been allowed to do that. Certainly not the KKK. Certainly not tea party groups, who paid for their use and clean up following their rallies, and obtained legal permits to hold a rally on public property.
Read my post articles for the facts about Kelly's legal survaillence and investigation methods. Start with the facts.
What perfect timing to talk to Michael Mukasey (who argues that water boarding was necessary) AND a veterans advocate in the same day.
First of all, I haven't seen ANY verifiable, corroborated information that shows that torture produced actionable intelligence that thwarted a terrorist attack -- and led to bin Laden. Mukasey and former Bush officials have made that argument, but there's been a real dearth of proof. Even military intel and CIA officials haven't repudiated that claim.
Moreover, none of these advocates for torture ever acknowledge the costs of torture. But consider how damaging torture has been for our very own US soldiers. I just read about this in the book, "None of Us Were Like This Before." That book, along with other accounts, has shown how troops who engaged in torture - sometimes for the same motives for trying to stop attacks against US forces - were totally emotionally destroyed by the experience. Some even took their lives. And in the end, there were more costs to collecting intelligence, than actually making any real gains from using torture for interrogation.
That's an appalling legacy, and one that I'd like you to address to Mr. Mukasey since he's been a vociferous advocate of torture.
Mr. Mukasey has no credibility as a supporter and enabler of torture and human rights abuses as U.S. Attorney general. I find his defense of the tactics of the NYPD and the fact that he is being given air time offensive and an arrogant slap to democracy and our system of justice and law. though I think that some of the individuals arrested by the NYPD paramilitary intelligence unit are dangerous, others, like the one recently arrested were troubled, isolated individuals who should have been given urgent help to address their emotional and mental problems instead of entrapping them by providing them with materials, drugs and other hate information to further isolate them from society. The informant is an individual seeking favor from the NYPD and his motives should be questioned.
Strongman Bloomberg and his deputy Kelly have setup an extra judicial paramilitary intelligence unit within the NYPD which receives NO OVERSIGHT whatsoever. It conducts intelligence surveillance and entrapment of peaceful organizations and individuals who question goverment policy either at the City or federal level OUTSIDE of the restrictions imposed on the CIA and FBI. It then provides this illegaly obtained information to the CIA and FBI. Aside from the obvious gaps in checks and balances and abuses that have trickled out, this paramilitary force is being used a a political and private force to intimidate the population and to suppress peaceful protests or free speech of disapproval against government policies. Cases in point are: (1) the suppresion of protests in NYC leading up to the Iraq war(2) suppresion of protests against Bush policies during the Republican convention in 2004 including illegal surveillance and infiltration of anti-war groups; massive, indiscriminate sweeps and arrests of people right off the street; illegal detention without charges for the duration of the convention;(3) False accusations by Strongman Bloomberg and Kelly days before the Republican convention that anarchists were behind protests and that those arrested would be processed quickly. When in fact it later came out that there they knew there were no anarchists as they had infiltrated the anti-war groups and intentionally did preemptive mass arrests and kept people in holding pens for the duration of the convention. (4) though there are many other instances of abuse, the last arrest of the troubled individual was an obviously politically timed arrest to blunt criticism of the NYPDs heavy handed and military tactics used against the OWS protesters. It's dangerous to have an individual with his own 'private army' with no accountability and it's more shameful that Mr. Mulkasy is coming out to further undermine democracy and the rule of law and due process. Mukasey is UnAmerican and a threat to our democracy.
This article compares Ray Kelly's program with President Obama's. Obama's outreach program reaches out to the wrong people, and his stupid and naive program called, “Empowering Local Partners to Prevent Violent Extremism in the United States,” gives our enemies control over our own police and federal agents.
McCarthy once compared this insanity to suggesting that mafia hoods be brought into the US Attorney's office to collaborate with prosecutors. He said that had he suggested that to his former boss, AG Rudy Guiliani (under Reagan), he would have been fired on the spot.
Of Mafiosi and Mullahs Intelligence is how you take down organized crime and organized terror.
Andrew C. McCarthy September 10, 2011 4:00 A.M.
Commissioner Kelly's methods are legal and proper:
Andrew C. McCarthy September 3, 2011 4:00 A.M.
How the NYPD Gets Jihad Right In a world of wishful thinkers, Commissioner Kelly is a realist.
QUOTEIt was Ray Kelly, one of the great police commissioners in American history, who finally arranged to place the blind sheikh in handcuffs. This was during the summer of 1993, when Kelly was in his first go-round as NYPD commissioner.UNQUOTE
Email addresses are required but never displayed.
Brian Lehrer leads the conversation about what matters most now in local and national politics, our own communities and our lives.
Subscribe on iTunes
Brian Lehrer Weekend: Gay Talese; Nobel Peace Prize Winner Leymah Gbowee; Anne Lamott
WNYC 93.9 FM and AM 820 are New York's flagship public radio
stations, broadcasting the finest programs from NPR and PRI, as well as a wide range of award-winning local
programming. WNYC is a division of
New York Public Radio.