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Backstory: Drones and the History of Bombing

Thursday, December 01, 2011

Drones are a key component of U.S. military operations all over the world—in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen. But, a number of critics question their efficacy and their expanded use on the battlefield and off. Daniel Swift explores the nature of aerial warfare—both manned and pilotless—in his article "Conjectural Damage: A History of Bombing." It appears in the November issues of Harper’s magazine.

Guests:

Daniel Swift

Comments [13]

tony from bayside

@edward..

Well to answer your question I don't think it does.
Because, what I was doing was presenting a view to amy after her initial comment, because frankly it sounded kind of simplistic to think after a few lessons piloting a cessna it would totally apply to a large commercial jet. I feel when people think of 911, they naturally think of the of what was they mostly remember on that day. And you have to agree the clearest was the planes striking the wtc...The maneuvers listed above are accurate. And at least it is a fact that the air traffic controllers in washington believed the flight that hit the pentagon might have been a military plane by it's speed and maneuvers.... I myself don't know the answers and I think didn't misrepresent in earlier posts that i was a truther or something of that ilk, just wanted to pose a question or two..In the future you may hold off the ad hominem attacks, debating is more fun!

Dec. 05 2011 12:42 PM
tony from bayside

@edward..

Well to answer your question I don't think it does.
Because, what I was doing was presenting a view to amy after her initial comment, because frankly it sounded kind of simplistic to think after a few lessons piloting a cessna it would totally apply to a large commercial jet. I feel when people think of 911, they naturally think of the of what was they mostly remember on that day. And you have to agree the clearest was the planes striking the wtc...The maneuvers listed above are accurate. And at least it is a fact that the air traffic controllers in washington believed the flight that hit the pentagon might have been a military plane by it's speed and maneuvers.... I myself don't know the answers and I think didn't misrepresent in earlier posts that i was a truther or something of that ilk, just wanted to pose a question or two..In the future you may hold off the ad hominem attacks, debating is more fun!

Dec. 05 2011 12:42 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

>tony from bayside

>@edward...

>Hmmm, Not sure how to respond.

Simple. Show us the claimed ALIVE identified hijackers of 9/11 on VIDEO, Youtube, on TV for the World to see.

>But I understand...like amy you seem to have not brought any interesting point of view besides your smug, myopic perspective.

You think your comment applies to yourself and your fellow conspiracy nutcases too?

Dec. 03 2011 01:27 PM
tony from bayside

@edward...

Hmmm, Not sure how to respond.
But I understand...like amy you seem to have not brought any interesting point of view besides your smug, myopic perspective.

Dec. 02 2011 02:09 PM
Edward from Washington Heights AKA pretentious Hudson Heights

tony from BSside,

As a conspiracy drone you must have also heard the claims that the identified hijackers of 9/11 infamy are STILL ALIVE.

If the identified hijackers are STILL ALIVE wouldn't they be on TV since 9/11/01?

OBL was able to make dozens of videos yet for some strange reason the identified hijackers have NEVER been on TV or YouTube.

Why haven't they been on the Islamic Republic of Irans PressTV, which is certainly no friend of the US.

Wouldn't that be a great way to prove that Bush/Cheney and Obama/Biden are LYING?

BTW, tonight the NSA will be replacing the battery in the transmitter in your head - while you're sleeping. It won't hurt a bit.

Dec. 01 2011 07:14 PM
tony from bayside

amy: If it only it was that easy....

According to the official account, repeated by the media, “[c]ontrollers say the plane crossed the Pentagon at 7,000 feet and then made a sweeping circle to the right, during which time it dropped down tonear surface level”.1

One of the alleged hijacking pilots, Hani Hanjour, was credited with having mastered the most difficult maneuver of that day, namely plunging Flight AA77, a Boeing 757, horizontally into the ground floor of the Pentagon at approximately 500 mph. An experienced military pilot, Gary Eitel, told author Michael C. Ruppert that the maneuver performed by that aircraft, as described in official reports, was beyond the capabilities of 90 percent of even the best and most experienced pilots in the world.2

Commander Ted Muga, a retired Pan-Am commercial and military airline pilot with years of experience, stated in a media interview in 2007:

The maneuver at the Pentagon was just a tight spiral coming down out of 7,000 feet. And a commercial aircraft, while they can in fact structurally somewhat handle that maneuver, they are very, very, very difficult. And it would take considerable training. In other words, commercial aircraft are designed for a particular purpose and that is for comfort and for passengers and it's not for military maneuvers. And while they are structurally capable of doing them, it takes some very, very talented pilots to do that. (…) I just can't imagine an amateur even being able to come close to performing a maneuver of that nature.

The above evaluation is corroborated by Capt. Fred Fox, a retired commercial airline pilot with 33 years experience flying for American Airlines.

Dec. 01 2011 05:17 PM
Amy from Manhattan

tony: My thought is that the hijackers are known to have gone to flight school & that "those maneuvers" consisted of turning the planes off course & flying straight at large buildings. Doesn't sound that complicated.

jgarbuz: Many drone strikes have killed innocent civilians, either along with or instead of actual enemies. This has led to resentment on the part of those civilians' relatives and friends.

Dec. 01 2011 04:43 PM

FACT:

BO has killed more INNOCENTS with unmanned drones than George W. Bush.

Dec. 01 2011 02:20 PM
sami

Does your guest really think their is a continuity between carpet bombing of wwii and the 'targeting killings' through drone warfare?
How is this precision warfare then?
The bottom line is that precision warfare is anything but, because it provides the appearance of accuracy, which provides a carpet of excuses for mindless bombing.

Dec. 01 2011 01:57 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

Sami

It splatters their face all over the place, and that's why they hate drones. And what is a professor of literature doing pontificating over the morality of using drones versus...?

Dec. 01 2011 01:56 PM
sami

How does drone warfare change the face of 'the enemy'?

Dec. 01 2011 01:52 PM
jgarbuz from Queens

It was Israel that became the leader in UAV development from 1973 till relatively recently. It's use of an armada of small drones in the 1982 war over the Baqaa valley, to get the Syrians to turn on their radars, which were then put out of business by the Israeli F-16s that followed the drones in, is now a classic in the history of recent aerial warfare.The US actually borrowed drones from Israel in the first Gulf War, because it had neglected them. Today, the US has retaken the lead thanks to all of the experience it has gained in Afghanistan over the last few years.

Naturally, the enemy hates drones. They hate being defeated.

Dec. 01 2011 01:49 PM
tony from bayside

Conspiracy theorists believe that the highjacked planes on 911 were in effect drones, because the pilots could not have pulled off those maneuvers..thoughts?

Dec. 01 2011 01:48 PM

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