Photo credit: @julesdwit.
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WNYC senior reporter Bob Hennelly and Heidi Boghosian, executive director of the National Lawyers Guild, discuss the legal standing of the Occupy Wall Street protesters here in New York City as well as around the country.
Uh, Martin Chuzzletwit, because there are no jobs and that's part of the protest?
Uhh Robert, they used firehoses and German Shepherds in the 60's!
Right on, jgarbuz...on that last point.Discourse needs to move beyond "income/wealth-inequality is bad", to why.
Robert, move to china please. You are too delicate to be here. Cops are mean and they looked at me funny mommy.
Reporters get in the way, how are the police to DO THEIR JOB, whne you have a camera crew between you and the target.
Again, it's the police who have added the element of violence to this. Just look at the force they use on people who don't even resist and the expressions often on their faces as they use that force. They have expressions of hatred on their faces many of them. Thugs. There needs be a rethinking and retraining of how police operate in many cities in this country. They provoke violence so they can come in swinging. Check it out, I'm not wrong. We ignore it... uh, you all ignore it.
Last year, Warren Buffet, third wealthiest man in America, made $64 million in income from his investments. That's the income of 1,000 average American families, but I don't begrudge him one penny. He did it honestly. So it is not the income disparity in of itself that is relevant. It is how that income is earned that matters. And how those with great wealth can skew the system in their favor.
Whatever the pretext being used to suppress the OWS is beside the point. I'm sure the unlawful incidents are much less at Zucotti Park than in the general population surely less the your average sport event or parade. And the heavy handed provocative tactics of the NYPD is inexcusable. They make up the rules as events develop and dare you to defy them. I was awaken by helicopters the night of the eviction and rode by bicycledown there only to see phalanxes of police nastily telling me where i can & cannot go. Even at one point standing on a SIDEWALK on Broadway became illegal.
Unfortunately Heidi Boghosian seems to have no idea what is going on in Zuccoti Park. It is wall to wall people and surrounded by police barricades and a steady stream of tourists. It's very difficult to enter the park if you wanted to. It's a real concrete jungle in that neighborhood and Zuccoti was one of the few places in those blocks where workers could eat lunch outside. Also, some local businesses are really being hurt. Perhaps if the demonstrations seemed more organized and focused and not like a scrappy encampment full of squatters who look like pigpen, it would be easier to be supportive. If the "demonstrators" really want jobs, better jobs, and or better pay, then they should get their act together a la Martin Luther King and his organization. Right now it looks like a bunch of disorganized, whining, spoiled, bottom feeders.
Brenden for mayor!
Mayor Bloomberg is a multibillionaire and is supporting his Wall St buddies and doesn't give a hoot about people who are out of work and losing their homes. I don't understand why the cops allow themselves to be turned into storm troupers beating up on peaceful protesters who are fighter for their rights as well as all the other 99 % ers. Put a uniform on a guy and give him a gun and he turns into a bully.
this caller from OWS(security guy) is the most rational representative from the movement that i've heard so far. in other words, he doesn't sounds like a rich white guy w/ dreads
Re notice: The New York Times this morning reported that not even the police officers involved in the raid knew what was going to happen until the last minute. So there seems to have been a deliberate decision NOT to give notice.
why don't they just move to Tompkins Square?
I was there for the first attempt to clean the park, because of the notice, it built up to a near riot. Would a riot, because of the notice, have been better?.
De escalation is nonsense when you are dealing with a violent person.
The cops did what they were told to do. They are not thugs; they are working people.
That's what they're doing now Chuzzlewit! Get it?
Would it have been preferable to remove them at rush hour?
The vicious way the police went in and handled the situation was plain wrong and I would BET it was illegal. They were violent and provocative, provocative intentionally to get the ows folks to strike back. Talk about THAT Brian. They acted as just what they are. The NYPD is loaded with thugs with a license to kill and that includes the biggest thug of them all Ray Kelly. The mayor is nothing but a little sissy-boy who hides behind these thugs. Not all cops are thugs, many are and would probably be on the other side of the law were they not cops. They give a bad name to the organization.
This caller/guest is deluded. No one could go in and use the park while the tents were set up! It was wall-to-wall tents and tarps, and in no way pleasant to use for non-OWS activities.
Why can't we dispell with a right and left party, and have a LOGIC party? I'm all for the sentiments expressed by OWS, and would contribute if it moved forward toward tangiable goals, but please! Lobbying for a tent city in the middle of a puny park in the middle of one of the most congested neighborhoods in the city? It defies logic.
Logic would also dictate that Bloomberg would actually have to spread the word to remove the tents with reasonable notice, and not rouse people at 1AM in the morning. That tactic was abhorrent, and has caused a riff over the wrong issues.
Obviously, OWS can never admit this, but this is great for them. They get the "outrage" of being evicted, and an excellent excuse not to camp out 24/7 all Winter long.
We really need to have a serious discussion about what the right to "peaceably assemble" really means. It seems most cities have decided that you have the right to assemble only as long as you don't inconvenience them. The right to assemble seems to be pretty worthless if you don't have anywhere to do it legally.
I heartily support OWS. Getting the basic facts of pervasive income inequality into mainstream US consciousness is a major achievement, and so much more needs to be done.
However - if OWS allows the narrative to morph into "are tents legal or not", etc.? they will have lost their way. These issues may be important, but, they are not as important as the overall issues that OWS is trying to highlight. It's strategy - OWS needs to find many different ways to advance the publicizing of the facts and issues, and not become mired in this particular form of action
The vast majority of the country, who *do* resonate with the basic issues of OWS, will quickly lose interest if this becomes about legal procedures around tents and sleeping bags.
The mayor speaks with forked tongue. He pays lip service to freedom of speech, but then sets up a system clearly designed to have a chilling effect on those very rights.
He is the municipal equivalent of Bashar al-Assad.
Ordinances issued after the fact? And exactly what notice was given? And did Bloomberg ignore the initial injuction allowing OWS to return to the park and then go shop for another ruling?
Ask how do you remove someone, who is unwilling to move, without force??
Reporters had more freedom to report with bullets flying over their head in Libya than they did last night - trying to cover the raid.
Places to sit?! Get real!
The place was a sewer...
"They did give notice, but . . ." - please.
Farrish's comment is the most coherent I have read yet from a participant.
Brian, why not someone on the otherside of this legal argument.
I saw alot of druged out people and people who were not there for the protest, but for the food, shelter and vibe. Maybe this will focus the protest into a real movement, not a campground.
Judge Stallman is a great Justice, funny how case was not heard before Judge Billings, a very liberal Judge.
OWS = Woodstock 2011 minus Jimmy Hendrix and company :)
Why don't the "activists" partying in these OWS delayed adolescence sleepover camps go out and help invigorate job creation.....or better yet, get jobs themselves?
"Do we need a centrist party?" asked Brian of William Cohen. Brian, what are you asking about?
We have an extreme right-wing party and a center-right party at this time in our history. Why shoe-horn in a right-center-right party between the two? What we need is a LEFT party that stands up for the 99%!
I, along with my boyfriend, have been involved with OWS on a daily basis since day three. I think the rise of the tent city aspect of OWS made our lovely park a mess, housing opportunists who were sometimes violent, sometimes dealing drugs and frequently doing them. Some of my fellow activists loved the tents but many of us came to find them abhorrent. I hope/pray that Bloomberg comes to rue his clean-up, as he eliminated the element that was gradually alienating true activists and attracting the worst aspects of society. This new phase is clean, not as attractive to hangers-on and more focused than before. Let's work shifts through the winter and bring a new spring, as well as a Spring, to the the park and this nation.
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