On Demand
Debating Bad Behavior
How relaxed is too relaxed when it comes to standards of audience etiquette in theaters? Joining us to debate this question is David Cote, theater critic of Time Out New York, and Limor Tomer, WNYC’s executive producer of music programming.
Weigh in: Do you think standards of behavior are getting worse in theaters and concert halls? Or do you welcome a more casual, friendlier air?
Soundcheck blog: John Schaefer on standards of etiquette in theaters
- About this program
- Staff Bios »
- Contact Us »
- Latest Episode
- Internship
- Tapes and Transcripts
- Show Archive »
Features & Series
Podcast
Stay up to date.
Subscribe to the Podcast
See Tori Amos Live!
Join us Tuesday, Dec. 9 at The Greene Space
Singer and pianist Tori Amos joins us to talk about reworking and reinventing seasonal carols on her new holiday album. And, she performs for a live audience in The Greene Space! Click the link for ticket info.
More
Comments
Refresh
How casual is too casual, when it comes to theaters and concert halls? Have a horror story to share? Ever been shushed or shamed? Share it with us!
There must be a line between behavior that inhibits fellow audience members' enjoyment and behavior that is merely outside antiquated mores of behavior in the theatre.
If it's noisy or smelly, it's NOT ok. I'm distracted by random sound. I'm sure many people are, as well.
Comfortable doesn't mean taking off their shoes and leaving their shopping bags full of stuff in the aisles!!! Forget the cameras that may have stunned the performers. I was at the Metropolitan Opera last month when the shoes and the multiple shopping bags happened--and the people were sitting in the front row of the orchestra! The camera flash went off during a quartet at Caspary Hall at Rockefeller University. I admit--I've forgotten to turn off my cell phone once and it vibrated. But I don't want to smell fried chicken or popcorn at the theater. Maybe we should keep food only at the movies where it is allowed and encouraged, and not at the theater where people are performing live. There is no respect for the performers!!!
who is this woman? some of us, many of us, in fact, are actually very considerate, and DON"T check our devices, talk to anyone, or bring outside food or drink in.
and no, we don't need to hydrate. idiot. (that's something the water companies have tricked us into believing. when i was younger, and went to the theatre constantly with my parents, we never ate or drank in the theatre.)
if you can't make it 45 minutes without a drink of water or something in your mouth, there is something wrong with you, and you should go to the doctor.
timor, you lighten up, and stay in the multiplex.
No one seems willing to come straight out and say it: we're talking about class. All this talk about etiquette and proper theater-going behavior is based on upper class social customs. The underlying idea here being that the theater is for the upper classes.
Apart from the economy and discounted ticket prices, which allows in a "lower" class clientele, perhaps we should consider how Broadway has increasingly marketed itself to broader, pop culture audiences with countless theatrical adaptions of movies (e.g. "Spamalot," "Hairspray") and plays based on pop music (e.g. "Mama Mia," "Jersey Boys"). It should be no surprise then that supposedly less "educated" or cultured audiences are flocking to the theater.
LADY!
I Can NOT IGNORE THE SMELL OF FRIED CHICKEN!!!!!
This notion that there is some sort of acceptable relativism or exceptionalism associated with what are plainly bad manners is disturbing, to say the least. Limor Tomer's comments, especially, are astonishing. And there is nothing "classsist" about inconsiderate and vulgar behavior.
By the way, I think this is another example of the decreasing quality of the show. Please try to rein in the producers who are responsible for this nonsensical programming. I find myself turning it off more and more lately.
What do you all think about Andrew's [#6] comment? Is this a conversation about class? Our guest David Cote said he doesn't see a link between money and manners.
it's rude to eat in front of other people, unless you're going to share with them -- remember that rule? eating something that smells strongly in a public performance space is *incredibly* rude.
I go to the theater/opera/philharmonic/ballet to be taken to another place, other than my home, by the talented people performing. I do not want to be surrounded by disruptive behaviors.
Limor... getta grip... do you really want to smell fried chicken or what ever it may be in the theatre??? And yes... it is disrespectful for both the audience and the performers.
I know an actor who took a blackberry away from a woman who had been sitting in the front row texting through the entire performance. I was at another performance where audience members were photographing the actors, with flash, again from the front row. And no, these weren't "lower class" people or people who had never been to a live performance before, they were just jerks.
Intolerant? Humorless? Elitist? Apparently Ms. Tomer feels that expecting the most BASIC of manners is too much to expect. Is it really too much to ask that one behave with a minimum of consideration of other people around you?
I think Limor Tomer is trying to hard to defend her side of the debate. The caller with an elbow in her chest for an entire performance is being humorless??
Where is the humor in having a lousy experience due to inconsiderate fellow patrons? If you go to a concert, is it not to hear the music? If you go to the theater, is it not to see & hear the play?
What right does someone else have to prevent you from experiencing it without distraction?
Everybody thinks they are in their own living room therefore they can do what they want. Rude parents with really loud kids and the parents just don’t care that their kids are making everyone around them uncomfortable, as if they are in their own living room…
I agree with the idea that people with the most expensive seats are the least appreciative! At a Met opera this winter, I was thrilled to be upgraded at the last minute from my $25 Family Circle seats to the orchestra-- until the women next to me wouldn't stop talking, and were more concerned with spotting celebrities in the audience than listening to the amazing performers. I'm going to stick with the cheap seats I normally buy, where the audience has always been attentive and respectful to the performers.
Limor is so condescending!
Well, I'd have to have something to drink to sit through South Pacific...I hate that show.
Limor is trying to be contrarian, theatre is different because it costs more to people and we don't attend as often. It's a special event and the people are live, performing for us. If everyone decides to be casual together - that's great. But we haven't all signed that contract only the select few.
Limor, you are WAY too casual. Being considerate in a public space is not elitist or old fashioned.
We recently saw Charles Aznavor at City Center. Suddenly there arose around us an amazingly strong odor of "Street Gyro/Mystery Meat". All were turning around seeking the source of this pungent scent. As we were in the 4th row, we are most certain that Mr. Aznavoor was also privy to the smell. Aghast, my husband & I realized that the source of the malodorous scent was coming from the woman next to us who was voraciously attacking a Gyro sandwich at intervals during the show. With sauce dripping down her face and pieces of raw onions falling out of her mouth, she was oblivious to the thoughtlessness of her eating. At the end of the show, she left her leftovers and dirty wrapper on the floor along with a plastic fork. Ignorance or Thoughtlessness? Either way, eat before or after, but not during the show!
Limor seems to have been raised without having been taught anything about courtesy and socialization. She is saying that there is no such thing -- it's unnecessary and imaginary.
There is an entire web site devoted to bad behavior.
Check out
http://www.heyrude.com
I saw Leonard Cohen at Radio City recently. It was a Very Big Deal for me. Unfortunately the person in the adjacent seat was a gum chewing head banger. Yes, a head banger. Can you imagine listening to , say, Suzanne, with a head banger next to you. I kept looking toward the ushers. (By the way, yes they need to become bouncers now!)
I loathe cell phones, and iPods and all that stuff. However I have to admit, for the YouTube uploads, I can still attend the concert I never wanted to end.
The reason why people think of manners in the theater differently than at a movie might be because it's considerabley more expensive!! So, for $200 a ticket, you might expect people around you to be considerate of others.
I am SO for the idea of training ushers as actual enforcers. I was at Carnegie Hall dozens of times this past season, where there were many an offending photo-snapper and audible Ricola-chewer. Saw nary an usher do anything more than gently tap the photographers. I want them FORCED to delete their damn photos.
When I was in Montreal last summer at their huge Francophilie festival, what struck me the most about the audience was that they all paid attention. No one was one their phone, no one was taking a photo - everyone was attentive and was enjoying the show. American audiences have seemed to have lost something - be it they be easily distracted or a lack of basic manners - something has been allowed to fall to the wayside, and I don't know why, how or when. I'm baffled about that.
I think you should be hushed once, removed second, same with the cell, warned once to shut off/vibrate/no pictures, removed next.
I wonder how much they would actually let ushers do. What if the person ignores the usher or is seated deep in the row?
Maybe they should have police there like they do at sporting events. I wouldn't mind seeing an offender escorted out by a cop.
i agree. this is another case of the dumbing down of this show. there is only one standard of behavior applicable to mass congregations, whether they be church, metro north, the theater or the park. "Manners" are acceptable and agreed to norms of behavior. The idea of the "norm" has changed and those who hold higher standards are at odds with those whose standards are less respectful of others. The problem becomes remediation: when you ask someone to please not talk in the movies or to please cover their mouths when speaking on the cell phone for the entire 45 minutes ride from Stamford, you face the threat of physical violence.
I have experienced more than my share of others' bad behavior at the theater. I am sorry to say that this will probably get worse and that it is universal. A few years ago, an elderly woman behind me in the orchestra seats of the Vienna State Opera repeatedly made noise during a performance of "Manon" by rubbing her hand against her purse. When I politely motioned for her to please stop, her friend jabbed me a few times in the neck. The two then laughed at me and mocked me in German.
If you do not know how to behave at the opera, ballet or theater, either learn to be respectful of the performers and your fellow audience members or stay home and watch television.
The more I think about it, the more I am getting irate about this being translated into a "class" issue. Each social situation has it's own rules of the game and as a guest to that situation, it is on you to find out what the rules are and abide by them. If I go to someone's house and they don't eat meat or wear shoes inside, it would be unthinkable by anyone's imagination aside from Borat to walk in with muddy boots and a piece of red meat to grill. You are a guest in the house of the performer, they set the rules. There are so many different kinds of performances in this city and so many kinds of experiences, find one that suits your desires and go to that. Why would you go somewhere that is clear about what it is and try to change it? Didn't our mothers warn us about that with men? Don't try to change the experience of the performance, find the right one for you. Let the people who actually enjoy watching live theater or music in peace to do just that. And yes, there is a difference between Theater and Theatre and it isn't class-based, it's definition based. Look it up.
Wow,I didn't know that wanting to pay attention to the show made me classist, Limor! I thought it just meant that I was respecting the hard work and effort of all the creative folks involved, and wanting to be able to hear/see/concentrate on what was going on. And yes, if someone needs to pull something out of a bag to eat every five minutes, there IS a problem with him, and it's not one that a guy needs to bring to the theater! If he is so ill he needs to recharge every five minutes, he should be aware that bending down to rummage in his bag will distract people, and that he needs to have what he needs in his lap at the beginning of the show. I take medication; I make sure that the meds are in a pocket, and a bottle of water close to hand, should I need them. It's just consideration to my neighbors.
This isn't the 17th century when people sold oranges in the aisles at London theaters. If it were, we'd also have highwaymen and bad drains and infant mortality rates of 50% among the poor. Lots of us these days are able to go to live entertainment events. Especially when they're expensive and require a lot of saving and planning, it's a major event. We're there, rightly or wrongly, to see what is happening on the stage in front of us. And there are some things that it's just not possible to screen out -- it is NOT our responsibility to do anything more than behave with consideration toward our neighbors. Where do we draw the line on respect for others? Isn't the onus on people to recognize, hey, I'm not in my living room any more, but here with a bunch of other people who want to listen to the play and maybe I'm distracting them? Because if not, then you're suggesting that any form of bad behavior is up to the person against whom it's directed to deal with -- to criticize the behavior is "classist". If someone shoves past me in line at the grocery store, that's my problem if I am annoyed, because expecting courtesy and manners in social settings?
To continue...
If you go to a movie, you spend $10 or therabouts to see something displayed on a screen. If you miss chunks of the performance because the antics of those around you are too distracting, you can pay another $10 or $12 to see it again within the next hour. Or you can catch exactly the same performances on DVD in a few months.
On Broadway, for instance, tickets are ten times as much; there are no refunds and no DVDs. I want to see Mary Stuart and Gods of Carnage. I know that if I can't save up the cost of a ticket then I won't be able to see that performance -- ever. Live theater is far more remarkable and memorable than any film. If I'd had a jerk interfering with my ability to listen and watch Vanessa Redgrave and Natasha Richardson play opposite each other in The Seagull, then I wouldn't still have that amazing performance lodged in my memory 24 years later. When I went to see Impressionism, someone in front of me kept shifting and repositioning himself in his seat, every 5 minutes or so, to the annoyance of his wife, the person on his other side, and me, who was swatted on the head when he chose to stretch out and put his arms behind his head. How much did I SEE of the play? Not much.
Above all, some behavior is utterly disrespectful to performers. Imagine how the smell of fried chicken would affect your ability to play your flute???
People need to start distinguishing more between venues. A live theater is not a movie theater; a concert in the park is not the same as a concert at Lincoln Center; a loud rock concert is not the same as a recital or even (sometimes) an opera. It has nothing to do with class and everything to do with how disturbing your behavior will be to others.
What is elitist, Limor, are your patronizing comments that those of us who choose to be considerate of others in public spaces don't have the right to expect the same from those around them. Since when did good manners become something to sneer at?
I'm still thinking about the comments on this subject. I'm also still thinking how annoyed I was to hear Limor (I missed her name, but I gather that was it) tell me I need to focus more when distracted by rude or inconsiderate behavior. Who was this woman and why was she interviewed? It seemed unthinkable to her that patrons who are thoughtless or who could care less about other patrons around them should FOCUS on THEIR behavior. Especially when they are told that their behavior is distracting. I mean, it is ONLY when one's focus at a performance is INTERUPTED or DERAILED by another's behavior that behavior even becomes an issue.
The biggest difference between movies & most live theater/concerts is that you don't have an assigned seat at the movies. If the behavior of your neighbor is that bad, or bothering you that much, you can always move. That's not true for places where you have an assigned seat.
I don't have a problem with people talking at the theater (well, musicals), as long as they do it during applause breaks. Same goes for rooting through your bag for something to eat. Wait until an appropriate break in the action.
Leave a Comment
Please stay on topic, be civil, and be brief.
Back to EpisodeEmail addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments. Names are displayed with all comments. WNYC reserves the right to edit any comments posted on this site. Please read the WNYC.org Comment Guidelines before posting.