Soundcheck

I admit I'm one of those people who simply cannot get the immense popularity of Carey. I'll also admit I'm over 50 and the pop music I prefer to listen to is of the 50s and 60s variety. Still, there are current items that I enjoy... but Carey's insipid voice styling is just so annoying. Then again, a lot of current female voices sound so pre-adolescent. Aren't there any women singers out there of the alto or contralto range?

It is so popular because it is so very bad.

enter the music snobs.

I used to like Mariah's songs/voice but she's now laughable now, even more so than "Ken Lee" http://youtube.com/watch?v=_RgL2MKfWTo

simply put. she's the worst. like a robot blow up doll trying to talk to dolphins.

I think that she's undeniable as a singer, and thats just it. Her last full album was unbelievable, and I was NEVER a fan. I think that perhaps you need someone representing her side of the music business - who has been around for a lot longer, to add to this discussion. PS I am a punk rock and heavy music fan. I can separate the art from the artist. Lynne

would the analogy of McDonalds having served a billion ha,burgers be aplicable here ??? Im thinking so

"Vision of Love" was the first single to spend over $1 million in promotion, approved by her then-boyfriend Tommy Mottola. She still owes him for that, 'cause many greater talents never have - and never will - get such a leg-up. (If you know what I mean...)

Yesterday on Oprah Winfrey, Mariah Carey admitted that she is eternally 12. That about sums up her pop sounds lack of maturity. Pretty sad for a talented 38 year old.

All she did was have more #1 hits then Elvis who cares. Anyway I think the Beatles or horrible.

I can't get the immense popularity here either. But regarding the melisma issue, listen to Clapton or blues guitarists in particular. They're playing what Mariah's singing, for the most part. But for some reason in her voice it sounds superfluous and self-indulgent. Has to be the underlying musicality and a question of taste.

smack down these silly guests! "led zeppelin AND john coltrane"? "madonna AND james brown"? success and soul are not the same thing, my precious pundits.

Really awful, annoying singing style. Melisma? Miasma is more like it.

PS The woman speaker sounds like a pretentious white woman, a bit snobby, not doing much for her end of the argument. - you don't have to say that on the air. - signed another white woman.

She's the "perfect" union of talented meets tacky - like the person with 4 or 5 massive jeweled rings on each finger....

If you want to judge by sales, yes she deserves her place with Elvis and the Beatles. Her fame is as much a function of her powerful visual appeal, just as Elvis and the Beatles had theirs. She's pop. They're pop. We're pop. That's our culture.

I am amazed by the variety that music offers and that is completely missed in the tunes Mairah has sung for us here. Do you think your selection represents her work well? Has she really polished all emotion from her repertoir?

It is almost like looking at a perfectly paved asphalt road in the midst of blooming meadows. I think only the fastest computers can produce music like that, not humans, not animals.

her music is exhausting.

I'm sick of baby boomers deifying their cultural idols and poopooing everything that's come subsequently. There is nothing more or less legitimate about Mariah Carey's achievements and anyone before her. Commercial music is commercial music. Get over yourselves boomers.

I'm offended by the "bimbo" part of the debate. Yeah, she herself sells her sexuality, but we never use similar degrading sexist language to describe similar male pop vocalists.

I think that the soundcheck crowd would naturally not be into Mariah.... the comments I see here so far are either out of touch or snobby when it comes to appreciating modern soul and R&B. Aren't their any people of colour around here ....? guess not ...

meanwhile stop hatin....

if you don't like "black music" just come out front and say it.

Wall to wall strip club music.

Just terrible.

She is a good musican,

So is Ted Nugent!

On this subject of female vocal bombast, one of my worst music experiences has to be when I trapped in a changing room waiting to have my pants returned, while Whitney Houston trumpeted "I Will Always Love You" through an over-loud overhead speaker.

Why are Elvis Presley and The Beatles supposed to be so sacred? Oh, yes, they are white.

Mariah Carey should be praised for her staying power alone. Remember after "Glitter" how she was considered so over?

I love Mariah. And your "experts" can go take a hike.

I feel that she is relevant, fresh, and I can relate to her artistry.

Youth matter, so Mariah matters.

I think that she is definitely more brilliant than bimbo. From a business stand point, she knows her audience and how to sell to them. As for her melisma, again I think it's more of giving her demographic what they want. I also think that a big part of her has always felt a need to identify with the more urban culture contrary to the MOR style that she initially represented.

EJ Sebian.

Do any of the people that hate Mariah like pop/r&b? If not then you probably hate a lot of pop/r&b singers. Just say that you hate the genre and leave it at that. And if you only like the oldies just say "I hate everything written after 1970".

I hope you'll do a similar "bimbo or brilliant" show on Justin Timberlake. At least Mariah can sing.

Granted Mariah has an incredible voice. She is a very talented vocalist (for a pop artist) but I honestly can't think of a single tune from one of her songs. Britney can't sing but her songs get stuck in your head. Almost every other Diva has a song I can vaguely remember but not her.

While I am not a fan of Ms. Carey's music and much of it I find offensive, none of it I find as offensive as your Brilliant or Bimbo survey. Whether or not your find her music worthy of her Billboard placement, you should refrain from placing value judgements on her intelligence or whether she deserves to have dethroned the King. She did. Fact.

Women have hard enough time in the music industry (or any industry) without entire programs devoted to questioning the worthiness of their success, and while doing so, their intelligence.

As Randy would say, Check it out, Dogs. Tonight, to be exact: there is no one on American Idol this season who is channeling Mariah C. - Carly Simon, Whitney, Bruce Springsteen ... but no MC.

Like her or not, she doesn't deserve the title of "bimbo"

And if NPR listeners are not the demographic for liking her music, why are you wasting everyone's time?

Jeeez, as a 30+ year listener to WNYC, I can't believe how far down the station is now reaching.

Unbelievable.

Who needs WNYC if it's going to muck about in the most banal and uninspired crap and then try to pass it off as worthy of discussion?Well maybe worthy for tweens, teens, and people who have never expanded their horizons...

Yes, I know this sounds very judgemental, and narrow minded, but I am anything but. Decades ago, I pushed myself to learn about all kinds of other music away from the same-old commercial stuff, put out by people who have very little or no training in music (would you let a doctor operate on you without having gone to medical school?) -- really the marketing product of huge media conglomerates, and little to do with music.

"Musician" and "Artist" are two of the most uncritcally used terms in our discourse today, and the fact that WNYC is dealing in stuff like this speaks to caving in to the crass consumerism in our society.

Very sad.

Mariah is an undeniable powerhouse.

However, what I don't understand is the absence of any criticism regarding the way her shift from a golden-throated introvert to a "sexy baby" has effected her performing. Sure, she's completely embraced R&B in exchange for torchy ballads, but her desire to look good has made her incredibly awkward onstage and, more importantly, her vocal prowess has either completely dissipated or she's merely intent on warbling and whispering through songs tailored to anyone in close proximity to a vocoder or Jermaine Dupri.

"Touch My Body" is fun, but I miss "Dreamlover."

Mariah Carey is an undeniable pop icon, just as Elvis and the Beatles were in their day. True, she may not possess the more searching & complex musicality that the Beatles had at a certain point, but to deny her legacy or her impact based on a like or dislike of her note choice is imbecile. She understands her audience, she stays contemporary and has acheived several successful (& believable) image transformations throughout her career.

Furthermore, to deem a professional, talented, icon a "bimbo" purely because she is a scantily clad pop musician is... classist? Let's recall Dolly Parton here folks. Another keen business woman, incredible musician and performer, and self-proclaimed "backwoods barbie"...

HI,

She belongs in the company of The Beatles & even Elvis, as much as the film Titanic belongs next to Citizen Kane, or Ben Hur. Just because she has sold millions of records doesn't mean she is much more than a very well managed pop machine.

C'mon guys, let's adjust these figures for inflation. When Elvis and the Beatles were making records there were about 100,000,000 fewer people and in the country and considerably fewer options for buying records.

I highly doubt that she "writes her own songs and controls her career." And what do you think she'd sound like without all of the post-production polishing on that mediocre voice? Probably, like Madonna, not too good.

Mariah Carey has an excellent vocal instrument and wears sexy spaghetti strap dresses with heals, but here in lies the problem....she is SO one dimensional. I know nothing else about her. She never stretches herself to try new genres or re-invent herself like Madonna does. There is nothing about her that has any meaning...

The reason why the Beatles and Elvis (and Madonna) will always be classics is because they grew up with their music. They had personality. They stood for something, whether for a cause of the day (ie: the Beatles and war protest songs or Madonna in touting sexual openness in the controversial "Justify My Love" video.

Also, I happened to catch an interview with Mariah Carey on some evening program...and I was just so disgusted by her Imelda Marcos billon shoe collection that she was gleefully showing the program host. Because of that interview...I found her vapid, extremely materialistic and very annoying.

And while I was an extreme fan of her "Vision of Love" album at the time...I would never buy another album of hers again.

Yes, The Beatles and Elvis sold more records. Yes the Beatles and Elvis had pop stardom.

However Elvis and The Beatles influenced American and world culture to a much greater degree.

What does Mariah offer the culture besides the pop music?

Has anyone else noticed on some of the bigger ballads that there are so many "mariah's" overlaid over each other that the sound sort of grabs you around the neck...as if the vocal acrobatics are hard enough to ignore

Some of the comments repeated on air might be construed as flaming.

Mary J. Blige is amazing, but a different, character and different soul, and different pipes if you want to go there, her technical perfection is not her strength, it's her soul.

The Beatles influenced world culture? what world are you living in... ? They influenced YOUR groups culture but ask anyy young person from Beijing to Bratislava who is ringo starr and who is Mariah and I think you will find the big M is the predominant popular icon. I loved teh beatles when I was a kid ... them days are over. " I want to hold your hand " is just a pop song its not classical art.. cheesh you fan boys are trippin!

The tendency to rip off the riffs of other songs (such as Tom-tom club) when a hit is needed and then work them into melodic monstrosities that nonetheless guarantee popularity through pre-sold familiarity of the riffs - that shows a pathetic lack of inspiration, and strikes me as atistic theft no matter what rights payments have gone down. Totally irksome. And that material..or any full-on covers this woman records comes out like a bull released in a china shop.

Yes the Beatles and Elvis sold more records. Yes they too had pop stardum.

However The Beatles and even Elvis shifted American and world culture to a degree in several respects.

What does Mariah offer the culture?

I might not have these titles exactly right, but these are past Soundcheck shows: "Bimbo or Brilliant?" "Should Led Zeppelin get back together and tour?" "Who's the best Beatle, John or Paul?" I think this kind of faux-controversy is an incredibly tacky and ungenerous way of talking about music.

She's a brilliant singer, but unfortunately had to ride the Bimbo-train in order to keep up.

In all honesty, she's really not that much of a bimbo, compared to many other female "artists" (and I use the term loosely) who are famous for only their looks but lack real talent.

Look at how hyped everyone is getting over the topic of Mariah. Love her or hate her, her success is undeniable. If Mariah herself isn't brilliant, someone on her team certainly must be.

I also don't happen to think that artists have to "offer" culture anything in order to make an impact. Their contributions may not be realized for years.

So she's the cultural touchstone that surpasses the Beatles as stated above? Why, because any 12-year-old girl gets it? Yeah, given every cheesy technical/emotive manipulation & cliche combined with the vocal circus act that is her talent, and wow, great, sign me up, I love deep fried cheese.

"What world are you living in" listener sums up how she achieved all this success -- uninspired poor girl with vocal quirk marries controlling billionaire, benefits by his promotion machine and "schooling" (like early motown's charm school) then comes out with vocal quirk as "signature" and with best PRODUCING talent money can buy in each era, generating hit after hit where, once established, she pours out her shallow little heart about her "victimization" and "emancipation" by/from that evil man. Poor thing.

What world are YOU living in? I'm no baby boomer either and I don't even like the beatles but I do think about things and I AM curious about history...and in pop terms, much of their work IS art, or at least grandly influential in the last 50 years of pop, but that would require too much technical explanation for this box

Why doesn't Sound Check "go there" some time.It seems some of the listenership would benefit from talk of what is talent vs. production, what is bold experiment vs. gimmick and so on. Sound check: enlighten us all by going deeper than people's surface preferences! You did so on "rockism!"

My theory is that with the record industry in a shambles due to piracy, the internet and inability to grasp alternatives to the AandR promo model, Mariah Carey is one of the few active, charting acts left standing that can still be crammed through their existing hype machine.

Love your show. Hate this series.

I do think she exudes a neediness and so did Elvis. It's obvious that she has a lot of vocal talent and has invested herself in being whatever pop music seems to demand at the moment. I notice not just with her but artists like Beyonce or Fergie a kind of hyperactivity present. I think the debate about the aesthetics of current pop music is a little different than debating the merits of Mariah herself. She is a good pop artist overall even though I'm not that into her style of music. I agree with others that the bimbo comment is unfair. I think some of her power comes from mirroring the vulnerability women feel trying to live up to fantastical expectations of beauty. She does look kind of awkward trying to be so hot and she also has an earthiness about her that she never shakes despite living in such a different reality than her fans.

John-

I know I'm late but--

How could ANYONE put her in the same sentence with John Coltrane or Led Zeppelin???

>>RSM

Thanks everyone for such great comments, some of which are much smarter -- and funnier -- than anything I said. I've already had my say on the air, so I won't hog space here. I do answer some of your concerns, like the "bimbo" issue, in a blog I wrote about the show, which you can read here: http://www.moli.com/p/moliview/0_201226/article.

Mariah is living proof that money can't buy class. Around my parts we call her "Farina".

I have watched her deteriorate from the brilliant Vision of Love to the dim-witted "Touch My Body". Definitely a bimbo! Nuff said.

y da ell does color hav to come into everything...i love rnb, i hate mariah, n guess wat my color is? it ain't white