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Going Out With a Bang
Friday, February 29, 2008
Novelist J.D. Salinger bowed out of the literary world after achieving massive literary success in the 1950s and early '60s. But in music, the lure of reunion tours and comebacks make it tough to quit. We talk with Spin contributor and Details editor-at-large Jeff Gordinier and author and Slate.com contributor Taylor Clark about creative peaks and retirement.
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Comments
The composer Charles Ives comes to mind as a figure who knew when to quit while he was ahead. According to his wife, one day at age 53 he came downstairs with tears in his eyes: he could compose no more, he said, "nothing sounds right." He lived for another 27 years and for some of those, continued to run his own insurance business.
Doesn't your guest think that if other groups started subscribing to his recommendation, the very appeal of one album/hit would vanish?
I hate this whole "quit while your ahead" philosophy... Major labels have been quitting on bands for a while now and look at the "quality" of popular music now. What about bands like The Flaming Lips who had hits, but then took years to develop into the amazing musical force they are now.
Some artists really do grow and growth comes with mistakes. Give them room to do so!
Could we call it doing a Seinfeld as well?
What about Bob Dylan? I understand your point. But lets be honest. The Strokes weren't/aren't a really great band to begin with.
As I understand it Salinger didn't like the public life and the media attention and so stopped publishing but kept writing and there is a whole body of work awaiting publication after his death.
This makes sense to me, I mean if you can retire on the sales of one work, and you don't like the public exposure just write for yourself.
this guy is a joke. totally pointless conversation. if i have to hear that neutral milk hotel record one more time i may shoot myself. boring. whinning. crap.
Will Mr. Gordinier know when to go out on top of his career?
I agree; it is romantic to have an obscure group or performer put out a single record [Gary Higgins]. But isn't this really just something that appeals to music nerds. I think its wonderful to watch a group or musician evolve over time [radiohead].
what about Cymande?
They made one perfect album and dissapeared.
But- I agree with Birder- this is snarky nonsense- what about the critic with one review and then poof gone- that would be something. It supports the view of the romantic artist that is always the dream of the critic, the Van Gogh syndrome you could call it.
Kurt Cobain walked away from it all at the pinnacle of success.
Would Jeff Gordiner like to see more artists kill themselves?
Should the music writer for a magazine retire after a great article?
It takes years for a band to get to where they are heard. To leave right after this is not real.
Your guest is speaking like a true critic - nothing to say.
Artists need to work, and take chances. and those chances will not always be GOLDEN. how many lame records has neil young or david bowie put out? and they both OPENLY recognize that. should they stop working? no way. their best COULD be yet to come. and, since your guest seems partial to '90s pop, look at Weezer. their terribly reviewed second album turned out to be their greatest achievement... to date.
The strokes is a fine example. Pearl Jam is also relevant. Fortunately for them their later albums were largely ignored and they faded away. Bands get depressing when they reveal their lack of depth and innovation. The best bands are the ones who reinvent themselves (if only a little) with each album. The beatles is a perfect example and more recently, I believe Arcade Fire does a nice job with this. A new theme helps to of course.
Although Neutral Milk Hotel did dissolve, Jeff Mangum did not disappear from the music completely, as implied by the show. He's done recordings and shows since (albeit not very many).
What about Celine Dion's Las Vegas show? Now that was a brilliant retirement move.
What an arrogant proposition.
That being said, let me point out that there is a difference between an artist, and a wannabe famous act that is exploited and marketed by a record company.
An artist produces for themselves, not for the audience. The audience is the beneficiary not the impetus.
If anything, it's a convenient way to not get so upset about singers like Cobain (mentioned) and Ian Curtis.
Applies to other forms of entertainment. Look what Chappelle did. At the top just before signing for millions, he dropped out Now he is a legen.
What about artist like Van Morisson who made albums, that upon release where not interesting, but 10 years latter, are fantastic. Music is art first, and as such, is only an expression of the artist at that time. It may take many years to appreciate it.
What seems to be at the heart of the discussion is necessarily the work or the artist but the idea of the hero. The musican as hero or magician. They are not, they are imperfect like you. Jeff, go write some bad songs. MAybe one will be magical.
Not only did the Beatles reinvent themselves, but they went out on top and that decision has served them well.
correction:
"not necessarily the work but the idea of the artist as a hero"
What about Dylan?
I am a visual artist and I find this whole discussion to be ABSURD. Often, a painting that might be considered a dud is an important stepping stone to reach a breakthrough. I think this is true for any creative person. And, sometimes a work that is not popular when it comes out becomes beloved later. For example, the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" was not popular when it came out but it's now considered a classic.
Being an artist means going through development, with ups and downs. Experimentation and creativity mean that something new and unpopular might happen.
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. More creative work is always a good idea.
Who knows, two hundred years from now Van Halen's late work could be revered the way we revere Mozart!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE JUST DON'T KNOW. Greatness can be reserved for posterity.
Well what about Elliott Smith....? He was a musical genius (something that is lacking in popular music these days) and is still not fully recognized for this and did just about everything himself.....
This argument was made as far back as the '60's - a good example is the Doors; a great, though flawed, eponymous first album, never to be equaled . They had about 2 years of doing shows to build up a repository of songs and the time needed to perfect them. After that, they were under they were contractually obligated to produce albums, that, although filed with good songs, were inconsistent.
Your host is an idiot! The industry puts out garbage these days so all of them should quit -- and take all the industry big whigs with them.
This was a terrible topic to bring to the airways anyway. Please keep it intelligent!
the allman brother band is an example of a band that has evolved musically over the years after seeming to be washed up several times. As a fan from the Duane Allman days, who could have thought they would evolve from an innovative band with a limited repitore to a jazz influenced band that contiunes to innovate in the spirt of a vision. The days with Dickey Betts and Chuck Leavell, to the present incarnation, they have proven they still have vision.
listening to the discussion right now about music artists quitting before they slowly fail.
It's very easy for the general public to criticize an artist for not producing work that is as good as their previous work. As an artist, who has many friends who are artists, I want to remind people that we are all human. Working and trying. And without pushing our limits and experimenting and putting work out there that may not be as spectacular as we hope, we never grow. Art is for the people who make it and for the people who receive it and we're all human and can't always be great. If we subscribe to the philosophy of only being worth something if we succeed, we would never take any chances, and never find wild success in the middle of the failures.
(To adopt critic-speak) Mr. Gardiner fits into the genre of 'people who don't really like music.' He rates mostly unmemorable recordings made mostly by non musicians who make recordings for people who don't really like music to pretend to listen to. If same recording makers can attach a story of mythical woe and sadness the so much the better. More grist to the mill!!
I suggest a deep study of 'The White Goddess'. Robert Graves' realm was poetry. Real songwriters are poets.
Real music will continue to suffer the likes of Mr. Gardiner as long as posturing remains bankable. Now get...out of your Starry Eyes and be on your way!!!
I listened to this show on podcast, and I have to say that idiot from Spin Magazine (which is a magazine that probably should have quit while it was ahead) did sound to me as one of those "music fans" who doesn't really like music, but, instead, is in it for the statement he thinks he's making by embracing the bands I do. In short, the worst kind of poser scumbag.
His point about how the lesser later albums by the Cowboy Junkies made him not like "The Trinity Session" as much proved this to me. In my case, "Murmur" will always be one of my favorite albums, even though the last few R.E.M. albums have been tepid at best. Why? Because I like it for the music, not the "cultural cache" it might give me.
How John got through that without punching that moron in the face proves he's a better man than I. That dope is the reason why so many people sneer when they hear someone talk about "indie rock", because he's the elitist poser they picture as an indie rock fan.
In conclusion, I disagreed with him.
Thank GOD somebody said it! Nowadays one hears bunch of bands that most of them deserve the recycle bin of your PC after not even a one complete listen from the first to the last track. I am using my Shift+Delete for a very long time now on my PC!
What's the rush to make nonsense albums after albums without having anything to say? Even well established artists should consider this & ask the "WHY" question the late great Stanley Kubrick used to ask himself for his next film. And I am sure it is for the very reason that he created no more than 13 fantastic mind blowing films for us to puzzle over for years to come.
Cheers.
Hamid.
Tehran-Iran.
www.videopix.co.uk
www.videopix.zenfolio.com
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