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The so-called gender gap in music appreciation
Lesley Douglas, who coordinates pop music coverage at the BBC, said "For women, there tends to be a more emotional reaction to music. Men tend to be more interested in the intellectual side: the tracks, where albums have been made, that sort of thing." Today: we debate whether there is a gender gap in music appreciation with Laura Barton , features writer and music columnist at the Guardian, and Marc Perlman, Associate Professor of Music, Brown University at Brown University.
Weigh in: Do you find that women and men have innately different reactions to music?
Laura Barton on whether men and women listen to music differently
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I am skeptical about whether men and women have innately different responses to music. I would have a much easier time accepting the generalization that men and women choose to articulate different things when asked what they appreciate about music. Yes, men do seem more intested in showing off their knowledge of music trivia, but a lot of men seem to respond that same way to sports and politics, as if they have an easier time reciting facts about an event than they do trying to describe what it means to them. And yes, women don't seem as inclined to spend their weekends in record shops rooting around for obscurities, but we haven't ever really been welcome in them, have we?
I like macho rock and I'm a girl.
Like Barton, I've often been the only woman in the record shop. Or one of the only girls at the record fair. And while I cherish a Shop Assistants 45 I bought in London in 1996, and have puffed up with pride when (ok, male) collectors express admiration of my record collection, I have been made to feel, by guys, whether accidentally, on purpose, that my fandom is not fandom because I don't have the trivia or vinyl to show for it. As in: I may have deep and abiding memories of Morrissey concerts, but since I don't have Smiths bootlegs, or have forgotten names of their songs, I'm not really a fan. Which I don't by. Partially because, unlike Barton, I've always taken pleasure in knowing the history behind bands and their recordings. But I think the difference between me and a male record geek in overdrive is not that I don't know anything--it's that I'm not going to bore you by going on and on (and on) about what I know. And that may be another real difference here--I hate to cut things along gender lines, but the older I get, it seems to me that men lack the self-censoring tendency that women seem to have.
Which may be responsible for the lack of women music critics. To end this discussion on a positive note, listeners should check out the women DJs on WFMU who school me weekly on what I don't know.
forms of music that are traditionally or stereotypically male tend to be very emotional, and not really intellectual at all. i mean, heavy metal? moshing? these aren't intellectual pursuits.
i don't doubt that some people listen to music intellectually and some emotionally, but how do you even quantify such a thing?
women are allowed to be emotional in their every day lives, men are not. men need music as their emotional outlet. i'm not saying men listen emotionally, but i highly highly doubt, and i know a lot of musicians/music lovers, that there is a gender line that puts women on the emotional side.
it really sounds like the kind of thing that someone had an idea and then found information to back it up instead of the other way around.
-most- people, men and women, do not listen to music intellectually. it's probable that people who do listen that way are more encouraged to be into music that way and people who are encouraged to be into it tend to be men.
i'd also take issue with the idea that being an 'audiophile', and knowing things like when a record came out are not 'listening intellectually'. i mean, most of that stuff is trivial at best.
Go to any site devoted to the Betty boards.... all men, and a lot of them... technical hairsplitting to the max. Do women EVER do this?
we also might want to think about the fact that men, as a group, will belittle women's interest in anything. because if girl's like it and are really into it, then they can't be.
and finally, you have an a-hat talking about how girls are 'drawn to the cute singers'. this is crap. this is something that is talked about all the time. 'women like bands because the singers are attractive'. this is a stereotype, it's bullshit and pretty much any truth in it is based again on socialization.
but even if men and women like the same exact band, the assumption will be that the woman is into the looks and sexiness of the band and not the music, but the men like the music. which is kind of ridiculous, since this doens't explain why straight women are so into women musicians.
i'd also wonder how the 'girls are into cute bands' business plays into the fact that super ugly dudes will become huge stars (often mistaken for attractive simply because they are rock stars) but women -must- be attractive to make it in music. because that seems backwards regarding that theory.
Men and Women probably like the same kinds of music. And they may listen similarly. But they definitely consume music differently. Just go to Academy Records or any bricks and mortar store and look at who is there trolling through the bins. It's primarily a guy thing. It's not that women never go into these places -- but in much smaller numbers. So it's probably a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don’t see yourself in a place you tend not to hang out there. And if you don't know what you're looking for it's very difficult to ask questions. It's like a club -- you need to know the secret language. But women do purchase tickets and attend concerts or other live performances. I would guess that woman are more likely to peruse and purchase on the internet -- where it's easier to check out what's new and unfamiliar in peace.
The cuteness factor is just sexist nonsense. As if guys don't respond to appearance.
Puh-leese!
i think that the real difference is the role that music plays in forming one's cultural identity. males seem much more likely to attach strongly to sub-cultures where music is a central unifying force.
females seem much less likely to form their identity around a musical sub-culture, from my experience, at least.
Bioligical determinism is so 5 minutes ago--but seriously, "Gender Generalizations" are so often disproven...though perhaps interesting jumping off points.
That said, girls are silenced more than guys, so any interest will be teenage boys have will be more often self-reported than their female classmates.
As a female music critic, I think it's very difficult to know whether men and women listen differently at a biological level. Personally, I don't like cute singers, never have (except maybe naked D'Angelo). Mostly, I like macho hardcore hip hop much more than the sappy "for the ladies" tracks. I like it for the adrenaline as well as the lyrical intricacies.
I know more musical minutiae than anybody really needs to, and I have a large collection of obscure vinyl singles, but I'm still at the low end of expensive musical debris vs. male music critics. I don't compete-at least not through one-click shopping (or at Fat Beats). And I do dance to the music I love, something few male critics I know do.
But a lot of music culture comes down to community. You argue about this MC versus that MC, guitar god vs. guitar god, and you share knowledge. In my experience, women are usually excluded from these heated conversations unless a boy nerd has a crush on us. At this point, if you're a female music nerd like myself, you have to be a supernerd to get in with the boys. And a lot of women just have other things to do.
andy- this is because of the boys' club atmosphere of most musical subcultures. you can't look at the girls who are in those subcultures, you have to look at the girls who have been there and left out of discomfort.
While I do agree that there are brain/sex differences I think that they are more reflected in methods of processing than in areas of interest. Men may have the high ground when it comes to names & dates, but women seem to have a more sophisticated comprehension of the inter-relatedness of systems.
Most of the segment focused on the way that we talk about music, rather than the way that we perceive music. So it ended up being about social conditioning rather than biological predisposition.
Sadly, your (male) guest was not given the time to expand on the idea that we perceive music differently--a great area of inspection -- how about another, more in-depth segment on the subject.
PS. Both of my X chromosomes are very into the history and development of popular music, and ya I'm way into those pretty boys like Neil Young and Shane MacGowan, ya...
Boys & their toys is a quick explanation for audio geeks (plus the economic inequality of men & women). Girls and science & technology is STILL not encouraged in this society. I took an electronics course last year to learn residential wiring, was the only female, was belittled by the teacher, a few students saw how I hung in & was up to the task so they were decent. I got the 2nd highest grade on the final. What century is this?
Musical perceptions differing between the sexes? Is it nature or nurture? Maybe obsessives have OCD & if they took meds they'd lighten up (just kidding). Another version of a "pissing match"? I agree with A. Nonnie Muss re: reciting facts like sports, etc. I'm a woman, go to record fairs/stores and yes, puff up a little when a fellow music lover approves my choices and yes, it's a guy but I'd be fine if it were another female giving me props. I'm also not obsessed with the facts/must own everthing thing...interested, not obsessed. Am I passionate? You bet! For me it's emotional and analytical, though I can get intellectual about it. I'd rather listen, think about or play music than talk about it.
Girls do like the cute guys in the band and gay boys probably like them as well (otherwise there would be no boy bands, right?) BUT there are always exceptions. I was friends with 2 sisters when I was younger. We each had our fave Beatle - Paul wasn't one of them.
re: comment #9
Andy,
As someone who used to be a part of the goth/industrial subculture, I'd have to say that's BS...at least for that scene. The majority were definitely female. There were a lot of guys too of course but I would say more women in general identified with those scenes (at least in my day--we're talking early-mid 90's here) so your comment certainly doesn't fit my experience at all.
This thread is closed.
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