Soundcheck

Who cares what a critic thinks?! I work at a magazine that is employed almost exclusively by critics. do you know who should be homeless? Not a gay kid, a critic! What the hell do they have to offer to the world anyway? If they want to utilize their writing skills, send them to Kenya and give us some ideas on how to unite this ravaged country.

I'm not a big fan of the movie but with that said I think the soundtrack fits the movie and main character perfectly. I think a better question would be is the movie charming and clever or just annoying - if it is the soundtrack def. contributes to it.

Teens, its all about the teens - my 15 year old bought the cd the next day

Integrated into the movie this soundtrack is nice, seperated from the movie its a bad mixtape. This soundtrack is no Rushmore soundtrack.

The music complements the first hour of the movie--arch-cute and insufferably wise-ass (even the drug store clerk is chock full of hip witticisms).

But the movie got less cutesy as it went along, found its proper tone--and wisely kept the music to shorter clips.

So it works, all in all.

Oscar-worthy? Give me a break.

saying that an "intelligent" teenager like juno wouldn't listen to kimya dawson doesn't ring true to me---i'm an intelligent 32-yr old woman and i listen to kimya dawson regularly, she's one of my favorite artists. her lyrics are simple and innocent, not childish. and, i think, perfect for the film, which i adored.

I agree with Gene. Let's not pretend that this is a great movie.

And yes, it is funny that a group of middle aged white men are telling us what a 16 year old girl would listen to.

It would be nice to have the viewpoint of at least one female music critic on this subject. Once again, here we are talking about a movie about a teenage girl's issues, and yet all we are getting is a male perspective on the music. It would be great to hear from a female music critic and a teenager on what they think about the soundtrack.

I agree that the Dawson songs are not a good choice for the soundtrack. I'm a big fan of Belle and Sebastian and Cat Power. Dawson just does not compare. I was distracted by her songs during the movie.

As a teacher of 9 year olds, I get a daily dose of childish behavior, but nothing compares to this soundtrack. I've yet to see __Juno__, but my wife loves the movie and the soundtrack so much that I doubt I'll ever see it. Thankfully, she's kind enough to no longer play it when I'm around.

When I hear this music, I've only been able to think of another musician - Jeffrey Lewis - from the "antifolk" movement on the lower east side. He too is casual, slouching through his music tho his lyrics have much to say. He sticks to this talking-style, but his lyrics expand to encompass his wonder and melancholy - He's one of my favorites and would have been incredible on this movie. Thanks! Roberta

I think it's pretty hilarious that these "critics" cannot understand the purpose of such simplistic music in the film! Heavyweights like PJ Harvey and the Stooges were mentioned in the movie as a symbol of the main character's attempt to identify to the "cool music" the older man she is trying to impress will obviously listen to and respect. Not to say she doesn't actually listen to superstars to the likes of Buddy Holly and the Kinks, but music like Kimya Dawson's, well that is what Juno can much more concretely relate to. Also, the movie is about a young girl who is pregnant and is trying to understand her situation with dry wit, but ultimately it is evident she is a KID. That is exactly what Kimya Dawson's (and the Moldy Peaches) music is screaming at the listener: I get it, life is complicated and hard, and this is my way of understanding the mess of life.

Kimya's songs are not childish. She deals with very mature themes, filtering them through a low-fi aesthetic that is culled from folk traditions. Above all, she is one of the most honest musicians in music. I don't want her to listen to this show because it trivializes and undercuts the purely original songwriting that goes into every one of her albums. In many ways, Kimya Dawson is far more complicated than Juno. While I like Belle & Sebastian, I don't believe a 12-piece Scottish band that writes mature chamber pop about gay baseball players and office politics really fits the film any better than Kimya's work.

As a 17 year old who literally grew up listening to the Moldy Peaches I think it's really important that someone like Kimya Dawson be used primarily in the film, particularly during the animated parts of it.

I do think that there could have been more Patti Smith or Cat Power, but that the dominance of a FEMALE singer/songwriter was necessary on the soundtrack of one of the first quirky films for girls.

There could have been more Belle $ Sebastian or the Stooges, but then, would we still be talking about it?

The soundtrack is "cute", as is the movie. Critics say that it is childish--we need to remember that the film is about a 16 year old girl! I think the music compliments the movie well.

Anyone who has worked with high school students who cut themselves or abuse themselves in other ways knows that what they appreciate more than anything is straightforward talk. The Kimya Dawson song sampled for the show was just that. Simplistic, sure. On the other hand, it says something that kids in crisis want to hear. I love you, so don't hurt yourself. That's how kids talk to each other when they've been there.

I don't think I could bear to listen to a Kimya Dawson song all the way through, but it is totally appropriate for a teenage film.

This is a totally irrelevant conversation. As with any other record, or soundtrack, don't buy it if you don't like it. And criticize it if that's your job, but don't propose that a film deserves something "better." And to call the Juno character "mature" is as ridiculous as calling Dawson's lyrics "childish." Juno doesn't shed a lot of tears, but she is incredibly naive. Dawson has a timid voice and a simple style, but there's quite a bit of off-beat depth there.

The premise of this conversation is disturbing. The director should be a participant. As an artist (visual) I do not care how someone else might have made one of my paintings or sculptures, and it is a critically meaningless question. The moldy peaches make the music they make. The director made the choices he made. Talk about something more risky that what these two guys think they would do to change someone elses highly successful work.

Jeffrey Lewis http://www.thejeffreylewissite.com/

(Don't be confused by the site - he is also a comic book artist.)

It's a movie for goodness sake! The soundtrack is just there to make money. Let's not look too far into this folks!

I'm so shocked to hear that you have even posed this question. Kimya Dawson is probably one of the most poignant and concise writers of this generation. Some of her songs cut straight to the heart of the matter in so many different situations. Belle and Sabastian are so overplayed and don't speak to a new generation, they are more of a throw back to the happy go lucky flower child regurgitation of the 90s. Kimya is a brilliant writer and sucha good fit for this movie, I'm still reeling from the comments of your guests. Please, have they listened to her other songs, not on this album?

i agree with kristen (above). simple and innocent doesn't necessarily mean childish--or as kot said, amateur. in fact, simplicity can often times be the best way to relate to things which are frighteningly complex. i think that's what's happening here. and considering that the main character of juno, as jackson said, has a foot in both worlds, that's why it works.

PS- most of all I'm disappointed that Kimya was raked over the coals on your show, a show I always thought would champion artists exactly like her. I would love for you to have her on with some people from Juno as a talk back session to this program. You owe it to them to have their say.

Thanks,

Ishah

In the end this is a non-topic. Better luck finding subject matter for future shows.

I love soundcheck but this segment was a waste of time!! regardless of what whoever things, clearly the producer/director wanted to create an audio aesthetic through this soundtrack. Its an artistic choice!

Those of you who seem to think that criticism is not relevant are supremely mistaken. These critics have every right to discuss the success of this soundtrack, especially in relation to the movie. If there is no real criticism of art, art becomes irrelevant. As an artist myself, I hold popular cinema and music to a very high standard and so should you!

I think Kimya Dawson is just piggy-backing off the popularity of musicians with much more concise lyrics and subtle music like Smog or Cat Power.

kimya is not piggybacking off anyone's success, she has been writing and performing for many years and her music is distinctive and unique. to make glossy, glib comparisons to cat power just shows that you haven't given full consideration or attention to a songwriter who is a very special and startlingly clear voice of her generation. as far as your critics' "right" to critizice, you're absolutely right, but there's a difference between constructive, creative, and people trying to prove they're smarter than one another with detachment and self-satisfied scorn. for another great example of this type of "criticism" see the recent voice review -- so scintillating and informative ;) by most of the people i've heard from in the NYC music community, this show was seen as a cheap shot at a worthwhile artist who has worked hard for everything she got. i just became a member of WNYC but today i'm regretting it.

It's all yuppie crap. From Juno to freak folk to Sonic Youth to the Stooges. It was all co-opted for starters. Let's learn to live with that please, as New Yorkers who are experts on 16 year old girls, let's finally get comfortable with that one.

I'm a little shocked at some of the feedback scorning the critics. The subject matter might not have earth-shattering relevance but, while I might disagree with some of the critics, it still is worthy of debate. As a matter of context there have been numerous songs that have worked very well in movies but not as well on their own (see "Once" then buy soundtrack). And that's perfectly fine. In fact, some songs that work great on their own merits, whether they be tonal or lyrical complexities, etc. actually don't work in film because of those same merits. They can sometimes bring the viewer out of the scene instead of further into it. Songs are used in movies for various reasons, all of which serve to enhance the film to some degree. When they are used well, the songs help to create an emotional environment specific to the particular scene. On this point they can also serve as counterpoint to the emotions being displayed through the characters' actions or narrative. This is what the songs of Kimya Dawson do. They remind us that we are watching a teenager. We already know how smart, witty and mature Juno is. We don't need more songs to drive home that point.

Wow, so many seem to think an artists' choices are immutable and not to be trifled with.

Shhh! Don't discuss anything. Don't try to discover or analyze anything, or to learn from someone's success or failure.

It reminds me of a George Bernard Shaw line, went something like,

"Common etiquette says not to talk about politics, sex or religion. But politics, sex and religion are the only things _worth_ discussing."

And art, of course. . .

Riki,

I get so sick of comments like yours. Someone disagrees with a critic, and their only recourse is to condemn the entire profession, and suggest that the critic do something "worthy" with his/her life.

Get over yourself.

If you're so worthy, why are you bothering to read (and comment on) articles like this one on the web? Turn off your computer, go to Kenya, and do something yourself.

Fact is, each of us spends a great deal of our time in worthless activity. There's no reason to start throwing stones just because we have conflicting opinions about a movie or a soundtrack.

As for critics, Liz hits the nail on the head. If art is worth creating, it's also worth critiquing and debating. In fact, if it doesn't stir debate, it's probably not particularly effective or meaningful art. This doesn't suggest that critics are always right, but they do help lead and frame the discussion.

It is a noble pursuit to reflect upon art and to call artists to higher standards. This is the role of the critic. If you've seen Ratatouille, the speech from the food critic at the end of the film provides a succinct summary of why critics are important.

So next time, instead of passing instant condemnation, humbly submit your own, well-reasoned opinion, and contribute to the discussion.

Glad to see this movie make it to the mainstream; glad these voices are finally being heard. Not so glad that some people aren't seeing the value in Kimya's music. However complicated one might think their tastes are; music speaks to the soul. Kimya's music touched me and has for years. Debate what you will, but people are passionate about what they care about and from what I read above, Kimya's music is a motivating force. If it can soften my harden soul, then at the very least take that into consideration.

Peace, Love and good eats.