Smackdown: Springsteen
Tuesday, January 27, 2009
Today our Smackdown series enters dangerous territory with a debate over Bruce Springsteen, his new album, and his place in pop music. Phil Freeman of Metal Edge magazine and Lizzy Goodman of Blender magazine join us to spar over "Working on a Dream" and the legacy of the Boss.
Tell us: What do you think of Bruce Springsteen? What do you think of his new album? NOTE: A Soundcheck producer is sharing your comments on-air today.
Soundcheck Blog: a Springsteen story
Comments [83]
He's fine but he's not the greatest or most creative singer ever. He's no Belle and Sebastian lyrically, he does not have Placido Domingo's voice.
He's just a normal pop star that seems like a nice man and is very relatable in his topics and demeanor to the masses. I enjoy hearing a Springsteen song at a bar but I don't think you'd ever find me at a concert or buying his music.
Fans love Springsteen because he's a paradox: he's the skinny guy who manages to look tough, the tough guy who cares about people, the guy who could have any woman in the world but makes marriage look good, the rich guy who never let it go to his head, the political guy who knows he's really just a celebrity, not the voice of generation, and most of all, he's the guy who stands back and lets the music do the talking for him. In a generation of fakes and frauds, Springsteen is the real thing.
The reason why Springsteen was dubbed "the future of rock and roll" was because in his first two albums he was able to synthesize so many different styles and influences: '60s rock, r&b, folk, and jazz (with the help of pianist David Sancious) along with lyrics dealing with colorful literary-like characters. Starting with "Born To Run", that all changed. His music and subject matter became much more streamlined and simplistic.
Still, since 1975 he has come up with a few tunes that I liked.
I saw Bruce Springsteen in Penn State back in early 1975 when hardly anyone outside of the Philly area knew of him. He was incredible. He actually kept on performing when the band took their break! The next time I saw him was after "Born To Run". The auditorium was packed. He still gave an energetic show but something was definitely missing.
I like Springsteen, but I like Bob Seger better. They key difference between the two? Seger actually worked in a factory! (It was an auto plant.)
I have been a fan since I was 15, when he was playing high school auditoriums. He got me through my senior year of high school ("it's a town full of losers/and I'm pulling out of here to win"), through failed college romances, through nearly 23 years of marriage ("If I Should Fall Behind"; "One Step Up"; "Tougher Than The Rest"). He has demonstrated over and over that the redemptive powers of rock and roll are not limited to the young.
Phil Freeman has a tin ear if he thinks the E Street Band rhythm section is flat. This is one of the rockingest, tightest bands to ever take a stage.
The Seeger Sessions record was a necessary palate-cleaser after the huge emotions of The Rising, and to the poster above - all it would take would be a cursory glance at the liner notes to understand that Pete Seeger was well represented on that album.
Working On A Dream is, at first few listens, one of his weaker vessels. It is not likely to be in heavy rotation in my living room or on my iPod, but Bruce has been an honest artist in my view. While I may not always like the scenery he shows me, I will always take the journey with him.
Thanks for letting me vent just the tiniest bit.
Wow, a lot of anti-Springsteen sentiment. I guess your posters know something that Roy Orbison, Bob Dylan, Bono and U2, Jackson Brown, and John Fogerty and CCR don't, since they all asked Springsteen to induct them into the RnR HOF.
I've been hearing Bruce since before he recorded an album. Hated his music then and hate it more now. At first it was just bad rock-n-roll. Now it's pretentious BS. To compare him to Seeger or Dylan is ludicrous. They each added something lasting to the musical and cultural/political discourse of their day. Bruce hasn't added anything of note to either. Plus, I'd rather hear a finger nail scratching a blackboard than listen to that horrible voice. Plus, Clarence Clemmons (sp?) is an awful sax player.
As a Jersey girl,I snuk out of my parents' house to go to the Stone Pony and begged tickets to concerts and grew up alongside Bruce Springsteen. I left behind his anthems of my youth and angst although I revisit them from time to time. I am curious as to why a rock n roll star who starts out as an angst-ridden adolescent whose music mirrors adolescents across all cultures and societies can't grow up and leave behind the wonderings of adolescents and move onto the concerns of adults about the world. Its not as though Bruce remained 20, like all of us or most of us, he grew up, recognized what was important to him, married, had children, supported philanthropic causes most generously and is now using his bully pulpit to stand up for what he believes. Hooray for Bruce!!
RE: #25 Nathan -- Anyone else a fan of "Tunnel of Love?" What about "Lucky Town" and "Human Touch?" -- two albums that are sometimes forgotten.
I've always thought that, other than a handful of memorable songs, he is vastly overrated. Oddly, his songs always sound like "something else I've heard." There are times I can easily identify the tune as lifted from a long ago hit (albeit unconsciously, I'm sure!) and other times when I can't quite put my finger on it. Regardless, all of his tunes sound familiar and not particularly original.
I listened to the show, interrupted only by a foray into Target to get the new album. It was pretty frustrating to listen to you guys--in a debate shouldn't at least one person be a real, true fan? Saying that what's good about the new album is that it's not good isn't quite "the pro argument." There's plenty to criticize in the Springsteen repertoire (and you covered lots of it), but there's also tons to praise. I thought it was really unbalanced and "snickery": "I've just never gotten the whole Springsteen thing!" Oh, aren't you precious.
It's stuff like this (below) on which he built his reputation:
One soft-infested summer me and Terry became friends
Trying in vain to breathe the fire we was born in
Catching rides to the outskirts, tying faith between our teeth
Sleeping in that old abandoned beach house, getting wasted in the heat
And hiding on them backstreets, hiding on the backstreets
With a love so hard and filled with defeat
Runing for our lives at night on them backstreets
I guess Bruce fans don't listen to Soundcheck---except for me...and after this session I will likely listen less...I think the premise here is simply unfounded. Clearly Bruce has reached and inspired all types and classes of people, both with his music and with his politics. Working class people know what it looks like to put in a day's hard work, and Bruce never phoned it in. That is why they keep showing up at his concerts. And he has been the basis for college courses and books from other cultures. It is valid not to like Bruce, but calling him overrated is silly. Bruce is authentic and believes in what he does and says. I wish he had spoken out sooner politically. He is wise and informed and I greatly appreciate his time and work for Kerry and Obama. I believe we are fortunate and blessed to have the rare Bruce Sprinsteen's among us. He has made a difference in so many lives...he is a model all parents should hope their kids follow. Thank you, Bruce.
I laugh when people say he should stop endorsing liberal politics and "stick to the music" (like the Dixie Chicks' "shut up and sing"?).
Have these people never paid attention to his lyrics? Bruce has ALWAYS been a liberal/progressive. No way would a man who empathizes with the conservative power elite ever write a song like "Youngstown" off the brilliant Tom Joad album.
RE: #63 -- James, what is it about New Jersey that inspires musicians to be cowboys? (Bon Jovi and his "Young Guns" phase.)
running with one leg won't spin a dog in a circle, that is ridiculous. if you like the metaphor you're suspending disbelief, which is fine, but not being a bruce fan it's just foolish.
there are 2-legged dogs that can move just fine. if they can balance i'm sure they could do it with one leg too(imagine a person hopping).
for evidence:
1 front leg 1 back leg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPJJeISuXo
2 back legs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWg1dUWCaA
Many moons ago, at the Bottom Line, Springteen presented the best band in the world. However saying you prefer a democrat is like saying you prefer a big mac to a whopper; it is irrelevant. The US has undergone a bipartisan looting and Obama has appointed around him a bunch of recycled thugs. If you think the dem/repub. debate is important your mind is basically cracked. He has become an insider, an establishment pawn.
i once saw a two-legged dog on Oprah. It was amazing.
Dave Grohl once said on the Daily Show "If Bruce Springsteen is the boss, I F***in' quit".
Outlaws, Appalachian trail, killers, thiefs, countryside,
ponys, navajo, pistols, and buckskin chaps? ( all from outlaw pete)
I can't relate to any of these images....I don't spend a lot of time in NJ, but last time I checked, these things didn't exist there either.
Listen, Bruce is like an great old fighter, he doesn't always connect as often as he did but we are drawn to his charisma and would go miles just to see flashes of the old brilliance -- he is an icon and will always be one
Seems like there are two smackdowns going on:
(1) is Springsteen still good?
(2) was Springsteen _ever_ good?
Springsteen should have read the facts before he wrote "41 Shots". I wonder what Springsteen would have done in that particular crime and drug infested area if he ordered someone to put their hands up in the air and that person reached into his pocket instead. I was apalled that Springsteen would profit from such a tragedy and disrespect police officers.
I will say this, although I have fallen off the Bruce wagon the last few years, his concerts undoubtedly were the best I have ever seen. My first was the infamous New years eve show 1980 at the Nassau Coliseum. Blew me away. For those who just don't get it, you needed to see him perform live in 70', 80's and 90's. I am kind of amused by the Super Bowl appearance, tix for all US shows going on sale the next day and another "greatest hits" Cd available at Walmart. Curious to see how the IZOD Center in NJ concerts sell.
But he's BRUCE, come on! There's no one-legged dog, yes, that line is painfully "lame". On the other hand the early years were such powerful insights on American culture; few things rival Born to Run for a perfect 70's soundtrack - but try Nebraska for some of that empty haunting solo stuff as well. He's not ever really been my style but much like a Whiskeytown, an occasional talent like Bruce's writing and performance can win me over to a less progressive sound. And I say go Bruce for the politics! All in all a gold musical standard.
Not a big fan, live feels like a revival. Couldn't wait to get out. However, Seeger Sessions was pretty good.
After "Darkness on the Edge of Town" album, he blew it. I never liked him that much or saw the appeal. However, songs on "Tunnel of Love" are good. "41 Shots" is polemic garbage. His "Seeger Sessions" is horrible noise! Would it hurt him to do something new along the lines of "Jungle Land"?? When he did the Santa Claus song he was riding a wave of fame. Now he's morphed into some sort of singer-songwriter that open-mikers want to emulate.
Springsteen is a great entertainer. But his music falls short of that of at least the top 10 songwriters since 1950 for one reason: his songs are generally not very interesting musically.
Though very effective, his songs are limited in harmony and color. A great composer he is not.
If I hear another Springsteen fan say "I love the music, but hate his politics"...." Art IS political, folks. If you love his music but don't want to hear his politics then you are just not "getting" his music....it's ALWAYS been political. "I'll cut you in half while you're smiling ear to ear"..."Magic"...that's a pretty fair assessment of the Bush administration.
I was converted by the E Street album and unconverted by Darkness on the Edge of Town. His music and band have never been the same since jazzy keyboardist David Sancious was replaced by the unswinging, melodramatic block chords of Roy Bittan, the musical manifestation of Jon Landau and Dave Marsh telling Bruce how IMPORTANT he was.
Best thing from him in recent years was playing Kitty's Back on Conan, and the song at the end of The Wrestler, which brought tears to my eyes, so at least sometimes he can still find his mojo these days.
But nothing he's done since compares to E Street in which he was more profound by not trying to be than he's been in all the years of TRYING AS HARD AS HE CAN ever since.
a one-legged dog is a poetically perfect description for any person looking and trying for redemption and failing at it. Running with one leg would just spin the dog in a circle.It fits the character of "The Wrestler"
the boss for me is a childhood memory of hearing 'born in the u.s.a' being played constantly on our frequent trips to visit family between richmond and atlanta.
i will associate that frozen-in-time image of him with the 80s and being an american back then.
today, as a 28 year old, i avoid listening to him. i don't think i would even think to mention him were I to have to think of 'American' music today. he's definitely a leftover.
Hey all: This comment came to our blog. He seems to agree with Tommy. What do you think of Bruce's political turn in recent years?
"Just another torn American left artist. Add him to a long list--from Steinbeck to Pete Seeger (the pastor of the left) to Arthur Miller, et al.--who cannot admit just how left they are and reap the financial benefits and the warm glow of adulation that comes with fame. No American artist can be entirely honest and get work."
I loved him and love him still. I was traumatized after 9/11, and even went into therapy to try to get over it. But the only thing that helped me was The Rising. I listened to it obsessively for about a month after it came out, and suddenly felt better. He literally healed me. No other artist has done anything like that for me.
Bruuuuuuuuuuce 4-ever!!
Why is an artist from MetalEdge called on to provide expertise on Bruce Springsteen. I would not expect heavy metal fans to be able to appreciate the intelligence and heart of Springsteen's work. He is the heir to Pete Seeger and Dylan: the person who has kept popular music relevant and brought it to new audiences in a way that is too rare and that should be treasured.
If nothing else, Springsteen has inspired fabulous parody. For instance, Sesame Street's Born to Add:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN4eGVZk08c
What happened to freedom of speech, if he wants to incorporate politics into his shows it is much better than half naked dancers! Don't buy tickets to his show Tommy! If we think back the working man was traditionally more liberal, conservative christian right-wing has changed the face of that misguidedly! Conservative republican politics have never fought for the rights of the working person! I think Springsteen is a good reminder of what the real values of the working man are, and that have been forgotten in the fight for anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage!
RE: Joelle #39 and others who have seen Bruce in concert ... How much do you pay for tickets? How does that compare to your other concert expenses? Is Bruce worth it?
I never liked Springfield--and never really thought about it--and then I heard Will Oldham's cover of Thunder Road and found myself thinking that the song was amazing--and realized that I think Springfield can write the hell out of a song but his style and his voice just don't appeal to me.
there is no defense of WAlMART Miss Blender, quit shilling!
I worked at the September 11th Fund for 18 months and the first few months were nonstop work, program design, countless survivor and victim stories and response -- the staff never had a chance to pause and process. One weekend I picked up The Rising (shortly after it's release), popped it into my CD player during my commute, and all the emotion of the 9/11 experience caught up to me. It was amazing to me how much the music echoed the experiences of the victims and survivors -- it was like he was channeling them musically, giving melodic shape to their loss and frustration and sorrow and, yes, hope (how DO you live brokenhearted?). To me, he will always be the Poet Laureate of 9/11. Yes, I am a Jersey Girl and a Fire Chief's daughter, so I could particularly identify with the CD but really I think the plain poetry of that CD appealed to many many people and hopefully helped them to process and heal.
Lori Harris
Montclair, NJ
laharris55@aol.com
I loved early Bruce. Wild, Innocent...is my favorite all-team album. Jon Landau destroyed Bruce's talent by turning him into a manufacture Mr. Everyman/
I saw a one-legged dog on Oprah. It WAS pretty sad.
I never got his appeal at all. I don't like his forced sounding singing. I feel bad for someone who has and to go through so much of his life having to carry, "The Boss" around with him, not his fault.
I like the concepts around some of the things he likes to do; the Pete Seeger stuff, etc, but I don't want to hear him do it. I can't stand listening to him.
The Wrestler song sounds like Steve Earle singing with the mushed-mouthed country voice. Why does he sound so country? He's from NJ right?
I dislike fake country singing and A LOT OF PEOPLE DO IT. A show in itself.
It is hard to imagine "not getting" Springsteen's relevance when you see him live. Playing for 3-4 hours at full throttle, NOBODY puts on a more energetic show than Bruce and the E Street Band.
I love Bruce Springsteen. I've seen him in concert 2 times and had a great time. I've never bought an album besides his first when I was 16. But I'm glad he's there making music and fighting for the working man and the right candidates. He's one of those artists that has a great place in our recent history and affection in our hearts and just keeps working.
joelle
Seeing Bruce live over the summer was much more gratifying and exciting than any new record he may release over the rest of his career. A New Jersey legend on his Giants Stadium throne overlooking the Meadowlands was an important moment for me as a budding New Jersey artist.
Mediocre mediocre mediocre! just like the Grammy winners- generic commercial fodder...
Bruce Springsteen is the east coast working class guy symbol, John C. Melloncamp the midwest one. Both powerful and relevent in their day.
It's hard to imagine how anybody who cares about the power of music to move and unite people could not appreciate Bruce.
He only wrote one song and that one wasn't that hot. I wish we could stop and put him away. Please stop talking about him. Its very painful.
as billy joel is to long island, springsteen is to jersey. I avoid all of them.......
How can you have the "Seeger Sessions" without a song by Pete Seeger...Boo!
once again this phil character proves what everyone knows about critics...they're like eunuchs in a harem...they know what to do, see it done everyday...they just can't do it themselves
Bruce Springsteen is sooooo overrated. I actually like Southside Johnny way more. Bruces voice is raspy and agitating,his music is boring.Yes he is a real american but so am I.
Never understood what the big deal was about him, and still don't.
Not a fan!
I find his whole persona, the rough voice, plaid shirts, working class image, lyrics, etc. false and contrived. And the rabid fans strike me as clueless as screaming teenage girls as a Jonas Brothers concert.
I have tried to get it and I can't.
I don't want to be highbrow or elitist, but I will take an artist like Lou Reed any day over BS. True grit and authentic. Great lyrics.
One legged dogs usually have wheels attached to them.
I just don't get it.
you can be Americana self-invented schtick, wear blue jeans and make your voice gruff, and in spite of it all, still be a great artist. but unfortunately, Springsteen isn't. unlike Bob Dylan - who is CLEARLY a genius - Bruce hasn't invented anything new to add to his own schtick. it's pure schmaltz.
I grew up in New Jersey and Bruce is certainly New Jersey. The opening of Darkness on the Edge of Town best explains it:
"They're still racing out at the Trestles,
But that blood it never burned in her veins,
Now I hear she's got a house up in Fairview,
And a style she's trying to maintain. "
I can remember so many places in Jersey just from the first line. Jersey has always been a mixture of working class and status symbol.
Bruce is a great lyricist, but it is the band that makes the whole thing great. A big band sound, with complex arrangements and fine musicians. He has been successful as a solo artist, Nebraska and Tunnel of Love. With a few exceptional songs (Streets of Philadelphia, Youngstown) everything since Tunnel of Love has been pretty band and it can be attributed to criminal misuse of the E Street Band. Where was Clarence on The Rising?
Yes - wildly. His Americana shtick is disingenuous, and while that's a criticism you could lob at lots of artists, it's particularly offensive in this case because the essence of American is genuineness.
Never was a fan, but tried to listen to the new album on NPR. I couldn't make it past the first few songs. If you've heard one Bruce song you've heard them all, and that will spare you a lot of bad listening.
He definitely needs to dump the E Street band and get a new producer, a la Johnny Cash and Loretta Lynn. Dump the glockenspiel and the twinkly piano, and get some scrappy, inventive musicians behind him, and he might avoid fading into irrelevance.
As a leading edge boomer, all I can say is -- what does anybody hear in this boring guy's music? The 50's and 60's had real rockers. And the millionaire champion of the working man and woman -- please.
Bruce Springsteen is soooooo overrated,gosh hes not even as good as Southside Johhny.
his voice is agitating and most of his music is boring.i just dont get it !!!!!
Much too liberal for me. I did not appreciate his bashing of the Bush presidency during concerts and preferred he stuck to the music. Once he affiliated himslef with moveon.org, I was done.
Regarding the comment 'How much time does BS spend in Asbury Park anymore?'
The answer - plenty.
When he is not touring, he will regularly show up at local rock venues in Asbury, playing at many charity events in Asbury as well as still giving generously to the revitalization of the city.
His actions have spoken as loudly as his songs do.
I think there are few credible pop culture icons that we could be proud to call iconically American! To judge him raises ridiculous pop culture icons like Paris Hilton to the same status and if we have to judge, I think we all be happier to look toward Bruce Springsteen as a pop culture symbol. Why do we choose to judge role models that have had a positive impact on people's lives in a world where there are so many phony people that are referred to as role models.
I was 'privileged' to get to hear the first album before it made the stores. Long story there, but from the first song I've been annoyed by the sound of Goose Stringbean.
He just grates on me, I would rather listen to Bob Seger... and I'm a Dead Head! The recent folk-style tribute album (to Guthrie I think?) downright STINKS!!
Sorry, I won't rant... y'all gnow where I'm coming from...
Sam
If Bruce is Americana we are in trouble. Many of his songs are bland, pedestrian (and not in a Working Class Hero way) The fervor he stirs up reminds me of the masses cheering for Big Brother in 1984. It's creepy and empty.
I grew up listening to Springsteen; I can't imagine not having his music. Springsteen is one of the greatest musical storytellers of our time...there is not another who has had a greater impact on my life. Does he have some corny songs, a few...but he also has some of the most deeply thoughtful lyrics and some of the most poetic and moving chararcters in the American songbook.
Bruce Springsteen = (Van Morrison) - (mysticism) + (glockenspiel)
And I completely agree with Phil Freeman, how can this guy be an icon of American authenticity when his accent is a complete fiction?
RE: #9 -- Tommy what don't you like about his politics? Or is it that he became more political and endorsed candidates?
your exteneral links aren't working properly
Bruce " The Blowhard" says it all.
I used to consider Bruce one of my favorite artists. I stood out in the the cold and the rain for concert tix. After listening to his political rants the last decade, i dropped off the wagon, stopped buying his CDs and did not even consider seeing him live anymore.
Check out Baton Rouge-based writer Alex Cook's blog post about his anxiety over new Springsteen albums:
http://alexvcook.blogspot.com/2009/01/legends-of-springsteen.html
I love Bruce. I do. But re: "The Wrestler", it warrants asking, Bruce: Have YOU ever seen a "one-legged dog"? Because I don't think you have. A THREE-legged dog, sure. But a one-legged dog would just, well, fall over. Sorry to nitpick your metaphor, Boss. Still a great track. Hugs.
Bruce is almost sui generis. With no exceptions (Neil Young?), he has managed for over thirty years to be an arena rock act, yet never devolve into an oldies act, still sell millions, perform unparalled live shows, and create vital new material--unlike the Stones, McCartney, myriad others. All this and, by almost all accounts, be a mensch.
Because of this lack of a reference point--who else is like him--I think it's impossible to say he's overrated, or for that matter underrated. He's just Bruce. BTW--he hates being called "the Boss."
Most rock critics--and the hipsters who enable them--who have an almost pathological disdain for what the everyday record buyer purchases. They revel in being contrary.
I've noticed when it's outre to love Bruce the critics and the hipsters embrace him vehemently, violently.
In the '80s, I was the biggest Springtsteen fan, but I really thought in the '90s that he had peaked with Born in the USA and he was just an oldies act. Since The Rising in 2002, he's gotten his groove back. I think he knows that he can slip into generic Springsteen songwriting, and he's tried hard to do something fresh and different on Devils and Dust, The Seeger Sessions and this new album. I saw him live in 1987 and 2004. That is a huge gap, and he hadn't lost any energy in that time. Can you think of another rock and roller who is still doing that 25 years after everyone assumed he had peaked? That's a short list, and they're all legends.
I like this album, it's a bit River meets magic.
I think born in the USA was a bore, but this pop thing is actually an old fashioned 70's sound.
Its funny I saw him last Summer at Giant Stadium, but he tended to do older stuff. So maybe if he goes on the road I think this CD could stand up well, plus Magic, the Solo Devils and Dust and The Rising were very good.
Asking if Bruce Springsteen is overrated is like a wife asking her husband if she looks fat in her new dress. If the question has to be asked, the answer is a resounding YES!
OK, Soundcheck listeners. Tell us what you think of Bruce Springsteen: Is he your hero? A critic's darling? Outdated, or reborn? We want to know what you like and dislike about the Boss, his music, his politics, his concerts ... heck, even his shirts.
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