wnyc.org / 93.9fm / am 820

I've owned several mp3 players and each one had an FM tuner. My current player is a Cowon D2. It's touch screen interface was around before iPod's. Cowon's players can be updated with firmware. If you like low maintenance players this one may not be for you. You've got to be a little bit of a tinkerer to appreciate its total functionality. Battery life is 50 hours for music and 11 or so for video.

Can't wait for the S9 and its AMOLED screen to come to America!

iTunes is buggy in Windows? I have to disagree. I have never had a problem with iTunes on a PC. I use a Mac at home to manage my iPod, but my girlfriend uses iTunes on a PC without problems (other than the sluggishness of the PC). And I used iTunes to listen to music on a work PC for years without problems.

On the subject of cost of ownership: my iPod has never cost me a cent. I have never paid for an upgrade of any sort - I have no idea what you folks are talking about - and my four year old iPod still works great.

As a store and source of music does iTunes leave something to be desired? Yeah, maybe. Whatever. I import my CDs, those borrowed from the library, and files downloaded from other sites - all without problems.

One last note on Microsoft's market share: They were a tiny company with a crappy computing language when IBM came calling. Long story short, they didn't have an OS so they "bought" one from a competing company (really from a programmer who tweaked it - as the story goes - just enough to avoid legal issues). So they provided an OS and language to IBM - who weren't really interested in the home computing market (they saw no future in it).

The genius move by Gates was to license MS-DOS to IBM - so that when other computer makers copied the IBM PC they had to pay Microsoft for every copy of MS-DOS installed on that machine that made it a PC clone.

Once IBM, at the time (early '80s) a company widely respected for making everything from typewriters to mainframes, was in the home computer market people thought they were actively involved and were making the best machines available. And they were wrong on both counts.

If Apple had gone the same route and licensed the Mac OS to other makers, it is highly likely that 90% of the desktop computers in the world today would be Macs. And Microsoft would be an obscure footnote in the history of home computing (i.e., "didn't they create BASIC?" 010 Run 020 Go to...).

I own both, but prefer the Zune (but don't tell an ipod user that, cause they think they are the coolest people on earth because the bought into good marketing and design)

one more thing: sansa

apple is the new microsoft

And, another thing: ahem.

iTunes: I tried it, I tried the Store, I tried streaming, which is important to me.

I just did not like the player. The store has, or at least had, very little in .m4a, the non-DRM files, called at that time iTunes Plus. I buy .mp3's from Amazon, and very happily.

And you, John, and the other folks at WNYC: why is your stuff "available at iTunes" when everything anyone needs is available in listen, download, whatever, right here on the WNYC web site.

Philip Blackburn at Innova constantly speaks of iTunes and iPods, etc., but when I call him on it, he says, absolutely, one can get everything one wants without iTunes.

So, is it all buzz? We thank Steve Jobs for saving the music business; but now I am told, three big music houses have quit iTunes. Maybe that is incorrect.

Here are two more things, regarding the software:

iTunes and Quicktime, which come together, are very vulnerable to attacks in Windows.

iTunes is buggy in Windows.

It would seem to me that with over 90% of the installed PC base of all O/S's being Windows, it would seem to me that Apple ought to be sure that everything works really well in the Windows world.

I hope someone reads these late entries. If we had a proper forum, with reply notification, there would be no issue of that problem.

Here I am, late as usual.

I was all set. iRiver H10 20gigs. Fantastic for .mp3's. I actually have six (count'em) of them because I have over 90 gigs of mp3 music files, and lots of downloads from New Sounds, Soundcheck, some from Brian, some from Lenny, a bunch from Terry Gross, and a lot from Krista Tippet, so, I need to keep it all organized.

I saw the first advertisement for the 120 gig Zune. I knew I had to have it!! I buy .mp3 from Amazon. Right now Jazz and Classical, especially, I am using Alex Ross' "The Rest Is Noise as a veritable guide book.

I will definitely be getting a second unit, especially if the price drops.

So far, no problems.

I would like a pause button; also, it would be nice not to need to scroll the whole alphabet.

>>RSM

Zune! fm features screen size the games now wifi great great great!

I hate it when people make the generalization that you DON'T and CAN'T own the music with the Zune. This is not true. I love the Zune because you have two choices when buying music:

a- Zune Marketplace- The same as itunes, 99 cents per song then you OWN it.

b- Zune Pass- Use it on the marketplace and download unlimited songs for 15$ a month and keep 10 to OWN. Meaning choose ten from the Marketplace to keep forever (Zune pass or no Zune pass)

Over Zune wins
This generation has been brainwashed by Apple dominance over the past years. Hopefully Zune will emerge eventually. People need to try new media players such as the Zune, Zen and Samsung. Ipod shouldn't be the standard for ALL mp3 players.

I choose Zune. I owned an iPod for a year and had quite a few problems with it. When I would call Apple support I found that I was spending hours on the phone and not really getting anything solved. After about 11 months I started having a problem where the battery wouldn't even last one song on a full charge. I called Apple and my warranty was up. Apparently the year starts from when they ship it to the distributor instead of from when I bought it. They told me to buy a new one. I did my research on players and got a Zune 80 for both my wife and I. The software did take some getting used to but I prefer it over iTunes now. The device itself is very solid. I've dropped it many times and don't even have a scratch on it. It's also much easier to use. With a long list of music I can press and hold down rather than having to spin my finger around in an uncomfortable position. It doesn't get much more intuitive than that. I do have a Zune Pass whish is fantastic. My wife and I share it so we pay $15/month and both get as much music as we want. We've gotten over 2500 songs in the time we've had it. At $1/song like iTunes charges that will cover us for almost 14 years. The greatest thing though is the support. My wifes battery meter recently went crazy on it. It was dying while it was still showing a full charge. I called MS support and we were past our year mark but it still had 3 weeks in warranty. They sent my wife a brand new device. That is how you treat your customers. That one act will insure that the next MP3 player that I purchase will be a Zune. The way that Apple treated me will insure that I never purchase another product from them as I know that they won't stand behind it.

I think both devices are just amazing, I currently have and ipod ,its convinient becouse its also a phone.

1. Zune has a lower cost of ownership - all generations get all the updates - remember that when you either get charged by Apple for their updates or can't even use the update because your device is a year old.
2. Though the Zune device isn't a drag and drop device like the Sansa or Zen it is the leader contender 'gainst the elitest mac people.
3.I'm a Zune user, though I have purchased ipods for other because it's what sheep want. Once they see my Zune they change their minds...
4. nothing againstthe other manaufacturers - Creative just never had the marketing muscle apple has - I still have my nomad 30gb - it works great even now. Sansa's are the clear winner in the price and usability war - I recently bought an 8gb video player fro $50 online - even the 4gb ipod and zune cost twice this and arent expandable - it's all a matter of preference
5. Finally ipods lock in their content (unless you use 3rd party software) unlike almost every other player which alooe 2 way transfers.
6. all the players introduce different innovations so no one player has it right yet (even Zune - but it's growing by leaps and bounds) so again it's a matter of preference and what you want your player to do.

OOOO.. Ericsson phones are pretty.. thanks! I think I may go with that... The problem with phones combined with mp3 players for me has been the storage space.. I have ALOT of music.. I need like 30 g's

I prayed when I bought the Zune that I would like it and you know what? I LOVE it. I refused to buy an Ipod. I've owed three other mp3 players: (i) my first one I can't remember the name, (ii) the creative zen touch (which I loved) and (iii) the Cowon iAudio U2 (a very sexy little thing). I love the Zune because of its radio, the size of its video screen, the way it looks, etc. I'm sorry that it doesn't have a voice recorder or that it doesn't act as a hard drive. With the Cowon iAudio U2, I could just plug it into any computer. I hate having to use special software in order to maximize its capabilities. But all in all, the Zune is a great player. By hey, where's the Solitaire game?

It's not just Apple and Microsoft that make mp3/multimedia players.

Sony Ericsson has done a great job of combining walkman, phone, and 2 mega pixel camera in their walkman phones.

By drag and dropping music files into the phone, you can carry as many as the external memory card allows you to carry pictures/music. (32gb on the way)

I can listen to radio(93.9Mhz) on the street, mp3 in the subway, take a picture and send picture message to friend, bluetooth mp3 file to another cell, and look up google map and gmail. Not quite iphone, video isn't that good, but who really enjoys watching video on those tiny screens? Also, I don't need the extra iphone data connection from AT&T.

With waves of multifunction gadgets, you can't just be a mp3 player. I just use ipod in the car for NPR podcasts.

are zunes compatible with Macs? How does that work if your music is in Itunes?

What I hate about ipod:
--No FM
--Screwy, proprietary software

What I hate about zune:
--Screwy, proprietary software

I have a little ipod nano, and a little sansa clip (for FM).

Neither! I mainly use mine for listening to the radio, and thankfully I discovered the Transcend T-Sonic, which can record from FM as well as play other WAVs and MP3s. It's much more sophisticated than the Creative Muvo - it can switch back and forth between radio and recordings and remember where you were, as well as rewind & fast forward; it even has timer record. And it's only about $40.

I need help. I just recently had to put my creative zen to rest and now am looking to buy a new player. I love the radio and hence starts my problem. I like both the zune and ipod touch but can't decide which one. I like the zune due to the radio and I like the ipod touch because I can get the internet and therefore check my email and get the radio thru itunes BUT I'm at work most of the day and they do not have a wireless signal! So do I get the zune so I have the radio all day or do I get the Ipod Touch and am only able to access radio seldomly. Please advise!

ipod !!

Not sure MattyMac, but my Samsung software lets me adjust the default volume of music on my computer; I'd assume the Zune and iPod software does as well. I think my software also lets you adjust the left-right balance on stereo tracks.

I don't like the ipod since it prevents me from adding photos from another machine. Photos are not drm protected, yet Apple treats them as if they were.

Ed

Ipod.

You'd have to be crazy to voluntarily use anything to do with Microsoft.

Re: Sound quality - that does matter, and I buy tracks through Amazon rather than Itunes because they offer a higher bitrate.
When I rip, I use the highest bitrate available.

Can anyone tell me why and how digital music files can vary on default volume?

I think ipods are better because they are easier to use and have more gigs

is there an ipod for the lifestyle of someone who's ears bleed whenever they have to listen to an MP3?

The ZuneCast thing is a joke. I don't use iTunes to buy music, but the fact that you don't own the track is ridiculous.
With iTunes, at least their DRM is a little 'wink wink' - you can easily convert the iTunes file to MP3 within iTunes.

Personally, I pay emusic 9 or something dollars a month and download actual MP3 files.

Funny, when Microsoft had 90% of the computer market Apple was ignored.
Now that Apple has 75% of the MP3 players ...

Of course Microsoft got it's share from people "liberating" software from the office (and because it was free) putting up with all it's flaws.

Apple got it's share because it WORKS!

Ronny.

Hey, listening live right now, and I've got a couple things to say.

Personally, I've used both the Zune and the iPod, and while the iPod wins hands down with its ubiquitous nature and Apple has a nack for aesthetics - making beautiful hardware, the pluses for me really drop off from there. iTunes' spreadsheet style software is so '90s and the iTunes store is so cluttered with pay per unit media.

The Zune offers an experience unlike any other. I can safely download unlimited songs with the Zune Pass and KEEP 10 tacks per month! Plus, the FREE games, the social, the better software, and better user interface.

That's my 2 cents...

Great topic though...

It's funny that PC/Microsoft users used to belittle Apple because there were fewer products (hardware and software) available for it. Now Microsoft users are on the defensive saying that they can live with fewer choices for the Zune.

I hate the proprietary software required to use the Zune and the iPod. My older iRiver plugs into any USB port and can be used as a hard drive to copy songs off/on the device; no special software or registration is needed.

Zune!

Zune!

I've had so many iPod shuffles break down on me it's pure insanity. It's such a faulty product but I need something that size for jogging.

I'm a Mac user, own an iPod, and have not used a Zune; so I can't weigh in on their relative strengths and weaknesses.

My only comment is that it would be poetic justice if the Zune is truly a better device that is relegated to a tiny market share due to bad timing.

Oh yeah... Samsung K5 (the one I own) 30+ hour battery life with headphones and 5-6 hour with speakers. Great battery life.

I've heard no mention thus far of the Creative Zen M, which in my opinion is really the top contender for best machine with the Zune. The ipod really falls short in the number of features such as voice recording and fm radio which I use often on my Zen. The ipod just earned the "cool" label and rode the coattails of Apple's other great products such as the Mac, from which I write this post!

Third party also-ran Samsung S5 (or older brother K5)
It’s light on features, a bit pricey, and only 4 gig… but built in speakers, cool mod stereo-like looks, FM radio, alarm clock, and neither Apple nor Microsoft.

I think that your experts may be missing a key factor of ipod's success. I looks so incredibly cool and sleek. The zune may be a fantastic player but how many functions do you actually use? I have a Sansa by sandisk myself(because it was a gift), but still want an ipod because it is so perfectly designed.

I have to say that the real champion product was iTunes. I bought an Ipod for my PC before iTunes existed on PC and I hated the clumsy interface.

iTunes has made the iPod a perfect computer companion, however. Right now it powers my whole home stereo system...and now it's my phone too.

So be it.

I use Rockbox on a Sandisk Sansa (any of several models).

Rockbox is a free firmware replacement that works with a lot of players. It's infinitely configurable, the sounds is great, and you can turn a cheaper player into a fantastically robust music device.

It plays more sound formats (over 15, including Ogg and FLAC), runs gapless playback, can retrofit to play MPEG video even on some older players, and can configure the sound and player infinitely (dithering, many EQ types, etc).

There's really nothing better.

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
Why Rockbox?

I'm a luddite and a ipod lover. It's ease of use is awesome. The simplicity of the ipod allows even the most computer-challenged like my parents and grandparents to be able to use the ipod with extreme ease. The fact that my granny is now an obsessive podcaster scares me though.

I have an iphone/ipod because I appreciate how well it is designed. It is a lovely object that is a pleasure to use.

Here's the thing: The zune software sucks, and always has. It's slow, it always crashed, ever since I first bought it two years ago, and even in its new version 3.0.
but here is why it wins: When your on the subway you can scan around you wirelessly and see if anyone else has a zune, then you can send them as many songs as you want, watch their head pop up and look for who is sending them a song, and start a conversation, maybe even get their number (which i have done twice!)
great hardware

Zune - I first found WNYC through the FM tuner.

itunes will take over your world.. if you go apple they own you.

ipods use their own music format .mp4 zune uses the standard .mp3-

and finally who wants to deal with drm?

Neither! You guys are ignoring the best MP3 player out there - Cowon IAudio. Great features, and the battery life puts the others in deep shade.

I AM THOROUGHLY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE ZOON!

I bought my wife a ZOON instead of the IPOD thinking that I was getting a better product. Unfortunately, however, the ZOON is plagued with battery and software problems. The docking station is aclo problematic and we had to replace that once already and we had to replace the ZOON once as well.

André

I prefer the zune because of the zune pass subscription

Ironic that I listen to public radio so I don't have to listen to many ads for products... I really don't want to hear sales pitches in the guise of radio shows.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Humbug and all that.

Zune- This is because it's got a FM which president -elect can listen to WNYC.

Zune is technically superior to iPOD. Zune software is over and above the spreadsheet looking iTunes. Most important is the audio quality. Zune towers over iPODS any day. Other things that make Zune worth every cent are
1. Free upgrades (3 in the last 8 months)
2. Not locked down to only one company (heck, you can write your own games) that nickels and dimes you
3. FM
4. Wifi
5. Huge screen
6. Very good subscription package
7. You get to keep 10 songs every months(10 for 14.99 + unlimited downloads)
8. extremely cool factor.

Probably what most people don't realize is that the cost of owning and maintaining a iPOD (paying for upgrades, iTunes, games ) is much more expensive than owning a Zune.

With a Zune you get all of the above plus more for lot less.

Worth every cent.

For me, it's the Zune, for several reasons. One, I hate, make that HATE Steve Jobs. Does anyone here remember the Newton? I just don't trust Apple's hardware, for that very (now incredibly obscure) reason. Plus Apple products look, well, feminine to me. Especially those first generation ipods. I wouldn't be caught dead with one of those, they look like they were designed to carry Virginia Slims.

While the ipod has definitely pulled ahead as far as design and versatility with the new itouch, Apple still charges about a buck a song from their store, whereas Zune offers a monthly subscription rate somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 bucks a month which gives the user access to about 95% of the online selection, with a scant five percent or so requiring purchase regardless of subscription status. Sure, you're only "leasing" the music with the Zune (you still have to buy albums outright if you wish to keep them outside of your subscription), but I ask you, how many times have you bought an album and instantly regretted it? Take that, Moldy Peaches fans!

With the Zune I feel that I'm definitely saving money, and I can make informed choices over which albums I choose to actually purchase, not to mention the added benefit of being able to download really embarrassing music in the privacy of your own home (i.e. the Footloose Soundtrack. I still get misty whenever I hear "Almost Paradise"...) when you're drunk . All of this for a mere 15 dollars per month.

NYCs vast Asian population should know that the Zune does NOT support East Asian characters. Apparently Microsoft thinks everyone in this country either speaks English, Spanish, or French.