Radiolab

I'm curious whether there is any work that explores whether self-esteem (or similar qualities) modifies the relationship between performance and self deception discussed in the Starek Keating paper.

I am interested in the relation of this topic to the area of Faith especially the New Thought movement, "Change one's life by changing one's mind". Does self-deception make us more faithful or loving? Is there a state of mind where an individual is not self deceiving yet is functioning at their full potential? When does self deception become self knowing?

I am curious if there is a tape or transcript of the program available?

I just wanted to know who did the research to decide that the answer yes to the self-deception questions were, what I believe you said, "univeral truths".

And how the research was performed.

OOps. "Universal truths"?

Even if these are not Universal Truths, excellent performance seems to be correlated with answering yes to them.

Listen at:

http://www.prx.org/pieces/23489

Not sure how prx is pronounced...

What is the source of the audio clip towards the end of this segment speaking of depressed individuals and honesty?

I have the BEST Teacher. His name is Fred Brito. Whenever I have a question on to trick someone, I call him. He is so good, even DATELINE NBC and Dr. Phil have spent a full hour talking about him. Now he is going to be on Oprah and 60 Minutes. He is the best!

Check him out. http://howtocatchacon.blogspot.com

www.fredbritollc.com

This guy has one very amazing story.

Radiolab, I found this particular radio show very disturbing, and the final conclusion absurd and an example of flawed logic.

To paraphrase, 'people who lie to themselves feel better, are more successful in life, sports, and business, and are happier... People who see the big picture, who see the truly bad things in the world clearly and accurately, more likely suffer from depression.'

I would have appreciated some bad examples of people who lie to themselves and are resultingly happy about it, ie George Bush Jr, because he frequently makes bold-faced lies (which I wonder if he believes), such warped concepts like torturing prisoners of war to protect American freedom and way of life, or USA killing Iraqis and taking over their country to help them gain democracy.

rekzkarz.com

I'm limited to 1500 characters, so 2nd post:

Denial of the truth may possibly lead to a partial happiness in the short term, but it also leads to internal pain, anguish, and long term diseases. Should the self-deception comes to light, it can shatter a person's sense of themselves -- or worse.

Lastly, while the data presented COULD be shaped to argue that athletes who lie to themselves and that helps them succeed, without changing your data I'd say those athletes consciously form beliefs which help them secure success. Perhaps they have awareness that some aspects are not completely true, but the power of their beliefs helps them.

I would've appreciated a few more angles on the data, such as comments from psychologists (who help people deal with uncomfortable buried truths), rather than what, in my opinion, was a lopsided and invalid analysis of this information.

rekzkarz.com

It makes sense that self-deception does, in fact, make individuals more successful. When Trivers (see video) says "people that have a low opinion of themselves, that's a sexual and romantic turn-off," he's obviously right... but why? Have we developed a connection between confidence and success when it comes to sexual attraction?

Maybe I missed something but after you take the test where is the information provided to tell you what your score means?

I'm an American living in France, and I'm always trying to get over all the small cultural differences. One of the things that you show really seemed to point out to me, is that Americans might tend to lie to themselves more. When you run into a friend you'll say, "Hey! How's it going?" and the friend, more often than not will say, "good, how are you..." and the conversation will go on. The friend might not be "good", but they'll say it anyways instead of diving into a whole list of things that aren't going well. The French, however, (it seems to me) will not automatically say "good" they'll say, "oh, I've got a cold" or "I'm super depressed, this weather really brings me down..." etc etc. They won't lie to you and themselves but tell you how things really are. Which makes me wonder, could this be why the French aren't know for being incredible business people, very super sporty, etc, and are more well known for their food. It is of course all very delicious and comforting food...

I was very upset when I heard this show on deception. Your shows always give me lots to think over and usually require a second hearing.

But, this business about the glories of self deception really hit me hard. Had I been fooling myself all these years (i'm 55)? My personal goal to be completely sincere and honest with myself and everyone around me, would lead to a better life for me and those I care for. Could I have been wrong?

My foolish self deception was reinforced by the the great thinks through history:

"This above all else to thine own self be true"

"Truth is beauty and beauty is truth, that is all you know, that is all you need to know"

"And, the Truth will set you free"

Then I realized that without telling us you dropped us into the middle of the island of Liars and Truth tellers. Of course, they will say self decievers are more successful and happy. Of course, they'll say people who don't lie to themselves are depressed and loosers.

You interviewed one of the liars. In all fairnes you should try and interview one of the truth tellers too.

Woah. "We're so vulnerable to being hurt, that we're given the capacity to distort as a gift." That shook me up a bit.

It's extraordinarily hard to judge the implied connection without a statistical analysis of the connections. Even then, every logician (and every honest scientist) will warn you of the fallacy of inferring a causal connection from a statistical connection. Jean-Paul Sartre's analysis of "bad faith" seems more insightful. At the very least I hear Jack Nicholson yelling, "The truth!? You can't handle the truth!" -- with its origins in the writings of Friedrich Nietzsche.

I just looked at the so-called self-deception survey. This looks like a wonderful example of bad science. Are they claiming that an honest person ought to answer "7" to all of the questions? Or that someone who answers 6 is more honest than someone who answers 3? While it may be true that everyone has had thoughts about killing someone, certainly it's not the case that we all have such thoughts to the same extent. How, then, are we to measure the degree of self-deception in a person's answers? Someone please revoke these "scientists'" grants! I want a refund.

Every single comment is opposed to idea that self deception is a virtue. What could that mean?

The people who lie to themselves don't know it and are just as outraged as those who don't lie, or

The people who lie to themselves are also lying to themselves and saying the show was fine as is, or

The happy and successful people who lie to themselves don't listen to radio lab, or

The unsuccessful and unhappy people who don't lie to themselves could be right and radio lab is wrong.

I have a feeling there are even more possibilities out there but it's late and I'm tired.

Very entertaining but scientifically assured I am not so sure. I read a comment my husbands philandering grandfather wrote in a book of verse; "the love that lies in a women's eyes lies and lies and lies." What a sad line of comment to leave in your wake. I suspect he would have answered yes to the full questionnaire and yet he was up there with the big deceivers. Not sure I can call the conclusions conclusive. Where does the great sin of arrogance come in. The ones who will freely admit with deadly honesty their sins to the world and don't give a damn. Would love to hear further debate on the topic.

I found this program very disturbing. It sounded as if the researchers found "liars" to be better in some way, than those who do not habitualy lie. Perhaps "self-deception" and "denial" is really what was being tested. I agree, these people frequently are more successful. They also tend to be manipulative, and therefore not always easy to respect.

The questionnaire bothered me. If one answers yes to all the questions, then where is respect for others? The rape question was very troubling. I have been raped -- both date-raped, and broken into and raped. I am NOT lying when I say I would not want to rape another person. I know what it does to one. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

And what is the validation of going to the bathroom?

It seem like a very distorted questionnaire.

Even if the measure of swimming prowess in the study was objective, are 40 swimmers really enough to identify cognitive behaviors that boost performance? I'm somewhat skeptical that the notion of self-deception has been sufficiently defined and that there is some causal relationship between the sort of deception measured by SDQ and athletic success. Is the SDQ recognizing similar sorts of self-deception as the negative connotation word filtering?

There was a study I heard recently on public radio that identified a relationship between suspected habitual liars and brain structure. I would be even more interested to learn if the liars in that study were more happy or successful than the control group?

Anyway, intriguing and provocative show, if not a little unsettling and frustrating.

is there a key for deciphering the answers to the survey?

i have often suspected people who are depressed have a more realistic view of the world

Like others, I was also disturbed by the last segment of this show on self-deception. I was disappointed to see that you only told half the story, and framed it in such a positive light. I don't disagree that self-deception helps athletes and businessmen. I do disagree that it translates into happiness. Self-deception produces "excellent performance" in a competitive environment. I'm sure self-deception makes better soldiers, as well. I'm sure those who deceive themselves are better at massacres and genocide. This kind of "excellent performance" and the accolades that accompany may make the ego proud, but it is not one that produces long term happiness. If, on the other hand, the parameters of "excellent performance" are based on cooperation and peace, which is the key to happiness according to all spiritualities I know of, then self-awareness and appreciating our interdependency with other people and our environment will prove more useful. For a show that claims to be scientifically based, I am disappointed that you relied on an experiment that did not control for society and culture when making a universal claim about happiness. In the end the experiment, and this segment of the show, simply justified the ego-centric, dog-eat-dog culture in which we live. One, mind you, that is ruining our ability to survive on this planet. One, that is not leading to a happy result unless we STOP deceiving ourselves.

I also felt sad by the conclusion of this episode and I'm heartened to find out that so many people felt the same way. As someone who values truth almost above everything, it is horrible to think that only self-deluded people can be successful.

I try very hard to be honest with myself and others. However, many times I've realized that my lack of hubris has made me less likely to believe I'm "the best" at something and therefore less able to sell myself.

But still, I wish Radio Lab could have presented an argument in favor of truth. Surely there must be benefits to be realistic about yourself and reality.

Not to mention being able to admit that you enjoy bowel movements. ;)

Unfortunately, from the standpoint of my own happiness, I am a “painfully” honest person: often too self-conscious to perform well, too aware of all the possible consequences to make quick decisions on my own behalf, and often shunned for my “bad-attitude” and “unpopular beliefs”.

Questions:

Obviously “honest” people constitute a segment of the population large enough to be measured.

What is the ratio of “painfully honest” to “self-deceivers”?

What evolutionary niche did we fill, that allowed us to not completely die off of our own depression or be killed off by annoyed “self-deceivers”?

Request:

When you identify that niche please make a show highlighting our value. We could use some positive press. Although we seem to dwell in the same category in “normal” people’s minds as broccoli and regular flossing, I have to believe the world could benefit from regular doses of our input.

Just wanted to say that the last part of this episode on self-deception really touched me. I almost started crying at work - and as someone who rarely cries, "almost" crying counts!

I see why some people are having trouble swallowing the argument, but maybe instead of seeing it as LYING to yourself, maybe it's more like the ability to overlook the negative aspects of oneself and concentrate on the positive ones? Like the athlete said, it's about going out there and thinking you're the best that helps you succeed. That's how I took it anyway, and as someone who is definitely not able to do that, it really touched me.

Thanks, Radio Lab.

where do i find the key to the self-deception test? the test is not all that useful w/out it.

Jad & Robert,

Given your conclusions about self-deception, it follows that telling people about it is harmful. With your radio show you've hurt people.

I can only assume that would've known this would be harmful. So, did you have any qualms about telling people?

Seriously, how did you justify broadcasting this?

When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change ... Dr. Wayne Dyer

I lie to myself when I am working on a project. I will say, "I am just going to do this little bit, and then I will rest." After doing the little bit, I then repeat the lie and do more. I continue on until the project is complete. I always believe myself when I say it, knowing that I am lying to myself.