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George Frideric Handel Jephtha, oratorio, HWV 70 Sinfonia. English Baroque Soloists. John Eliot Gardiner. Philips 454608.

Astor Piazzolla Escualo. Gidon Kremer, Violin; Friedrich Lips, Bajan; Svjatoslav Lips, Piano; Vladimir Tonkha, Violoncello; Mark Pekarsky, Percussion. Nonesuch 79407.

Sir Edward Elgar Serenade for String Orchestra in E minor, Op. 20 and Elegy for String Orchestra, Op. 58 (with loon calls).

B. Mann/W. Ives, D. Howard, Jim Kern "Shut the Door." The Buffalo Bills. AIC Masterworks Series.

Johann Sebastian Bach Chorale-Prelude 'Giant Fugue' "Wir glauben all' an einen Gott" BWV 680. Transcribed for orchestra by Leopold Stokowski. Sydney Symphony Orchestra. Robert Pikler. Chandos 6532.

Arcangelo Corelli Excerpts from various Concerti Grossi combined with Malloy Miller Prelude for Percussion.

George Frideric Handel Concerto Grosso No. 2 in B-flat major, Op 3. "Largo." English Baroque Soloists. John Eliot Gardiner. Warner/Erato 092748602.

Gustav Mahler "Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen" from Rückertlieder. Berlin Philharmonic. Karl Böhm. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Baritone. Deutsche Grammophon 415 191.

Kaplan Award-winning choreographer and music lover, Paul Taylor on today's edition of "Mad About Music."

[Theme Music]

Kaplan He has been called a genius, a legend, a cultural icon. Time magazine said he's the reigning master of modern dance, and for the Daily News, he simply is "the best choreographer in the world." For 50 years Paul Taylor and his dancers have captivated audiences with their astonishing inventiveness, poignancy and wit. He's the recipient of dozens of awards and honors, including our highest arts honor, the National Medal of Arts, presented to him by President Clinton. His ensemble, the Paul Taylor Dance Company, has performed in over sixty countries and 450 cities, and is now in residence here in New York City until March 14, at the City Center. Paul Taylor, welcome to "Mad About Music."

Taylor Pleasure to be here.

Kaplan Now, to the audience, it's hard to separate the dancing from the music, but to you who create these works, there really are two separate ingredients. So the chicken and egg question: how often has it been that hearing a piece of music has inspired one of your dances as opposed to conceiving the dance and then going to look for music?

Taylor I'd guess half and half.

Kaplan Can you think of an example where you were listening to music and all of a sudden, lightning struck. My God, there's a ballet in that music.

Taylor Well, before I can get to music, or even the dance, there are a lot of practical information that I need to decide about. Such as, what's the length of the rehearsal time, what's the budget, which of the dancers needs to be featured, and which needs a rest? A dozen practicalities.

Kaplan I understand the planning that's necessary but still, you are an inspirational person and sometime a light bulb must have gone off while you were hearing a piece of music. Can you think of one example?

Taylor Yes, I was driving somewhere and I had the car radio on and they were playing Siegfried Idyll, Wagner. And I had been thinking about a romantic dance of some kind, but I hadn't found the music. And I thought, that's it. It was a happy accident.

Kaplan Well, that's wonderful because, you know, it struck me when I was reading your biography that sometimes selecting music seemed almost—well, casual. For example, you recount your experience when working on Aureole, the ballet, which I think it's fair to say was your first triumph, in 1962, and has gone on to be a landmark. Here's what you wrote about a friend who you said had a large record collection. "On hearing the dancers and I had begun a new piece, he came up with several Handel string concertos which he says I will like because they sound like a bunch of mice. After splicing various elements together, he has urged me to do something with them." And I gather you did. So here's a case where the choreography existed before the music, but I wonder whether you would have imagined that for this very modern dance, the music of Handel would have fit just so naturally.

Taylor I liked the idea of using Handel because at that time - this was like middle 60s—modern choreographers were supposed to use modern music. And very little had been done to Baroque music. And being young, me, and kind of cheeky, I thought it would be fun and kind of like a slap in the face to those people who thought that modern dance had to be restricted to modern music, in the kind of modern at that time was Béla Bartók or Wallingford Rieger or—you know, which is fine, but I wanted to be different.

[Music]

Kaplan An excerpt from Handel's oratorio, Jephtha, the English Baroque Soloists with conductor John Eliot Gardiner. Music my guest, award-winning choreographer Paul Taylor, selected for his groundbreaking 1962 dance, Aureole. Now, looking over the music of your dances, one is struck by how eclectic your taste is. I mean, you've set dances to Baroque music, as we just heard in Handel. There's music from the classical period, the romantic period, well, even ragtime, reggae, tango. You even turned a barbershop quartet into a ballet, didn't you? Now how often do you use existing work versus going out and commissioning composers?

Taylor I think it's about a third of the 120 dances, have been commissioned music.

Kaplan But do you have composers who come to you with ideas?

Taylor Yes, they do. They send it in the mail. They send letters and recordings pretty regularly. And most of it's horrible. But I have to thank them and not say that, you know.

Kaplan Well, of course, the risk of commissioning is that you wind up with a work that you can't use. Has that ever happened to you, where you had to ask for a rewriting, or do you just say, I'm sorry, I can't use it?

Taylor No, once it's been commissioned, and the composer's handed it over, I just haven't had the nerve to refuse it. I've gone right ahead anyway. But that really hasn't happened. I don't remember being ever really unhappy with a new score. Oh, yes, one time, early on, someone wrote something and I went ahead and made the dance and it was all very last-minute. When we got to the dress rehearsal, I knew I really didn't like that music. It wasn't helping anything. So I asked him to please have it played in a back room, you know, as far away as possible! Hoping it wouldn't be as noticeable.

Kaplan Well, you're very kind. You know, we had on this show earlier William Friedkin, who as you know is a director in Hollywood—directed the French Connection, The Exorcist. He had commissioned a score for the The Exorcist, which he found just unacceptable. He was brutal. He just threw it out and he dug into contemporary music, but you're a much nicer guy about it.

Taylor Well, you know, a lot of times these composers write these things for us for peanuts because this is not a rich company. And therefore you feel more obligated. But, for The Exorcist, I mean, they get money and pay him off, and what's the big deal?

Kaplan Well, if there's any one of your dances where the music just seems to be crying in search for a choreographer it's in your Piazzolla Caldera for which you used the music written by the legendary tango composer, Astor Piazzolla. So the chicken and egg question again. Did you search for music for a ballet you had in mind, or did this tango music inspire you to create the ballet?

Taylor Certainly the music was a huge help, and I loved working with it, and so did the dancers, I think. But you see, I didn't bother to do any research on the tango. I understood where the tango came from, you know, those dives in, you know, poor people. But I didn't research the steps because I didn't feel it necessary to be authentic in this piece. So, it's just supposed to give the impression of the tango rather than any authenticity.

Kaplan Now his music has been described as "flawed confusion of human beings, a mixture of brutality, magic, sensuality and human honesty." Does that sound like your creation?

Taylor I tried, yes. I tried to get those things into the piece. Indeed, I did.

Kaplan And did his music help you achieve that?

Taylor Oh, yes, tremendously! Tremendously. The sound of that squeezebox, what do they call it?

Kaplan Bandoneón.

Taylor Bandoneón, yes! Yes—terrific, love it!

[Music]

Kaplan Piazzolla's Escualo performed by a group of soloists including Gidon Kremer, tango-style music selected by my guest on "Mad About Music" today, choreographer Paul Taylor, and is the music for his ballet Piazzolla Caldera, named after the well-known tango composer. Now earlier I mentioned the enormous range of the music in your dances, and you've also broken new ground in my view by combining music with what most people would regard as non-musical items. Here, I'm thinking of music you've used for your dance Sunset, with two separate works by Elgar, a serenade and an elegy, and then you overlaid on top of those, birdcalls. Calls of the loon.

Taylor You know, it's a transitional section, the reason being that I needed an eerie feeling in the dance. The dance is about soldiers who meet young girls in a park and eventually go off to battle. But, this moment transition is like a prediction of the future where a soldier is dying and I needed those loon sounds, I thought.

[Music]

Kaplan Elgar's Serenade in E minor for String Orchestra combined with his Elegy for Strings, on top of which is overlaid loon calls. A musical mélange my guest today, choreographer Paul Taylor, used for his dance, Sunset. The Paul Taylor Company is now in residency in City Center in New York until March 14. You can learn more about Paul Taylor or listen to any of our prior shows by logging on to WNYC.org and then just click on "Mad About Music." You can also go directly to Paul Taylor's own site. When we return, we'll discuss how Paul Taylor has taken the vernacular, even barbershop quartet singing, and set it to dance.

[Station Break]

Kaplan This is Gilbert Kaplan with my guest on today's edition of "Mad About Music," choreographer Paul Taylor. Loon calls may be a first as part of the music for dance, but you're always surprising us. Is it really true, as I read, that you once used elevator music for one of your works?

Taylor Yes, it was this terrible Mantovani stuff that nearly drove me crazy. I had a job waiting tables at one point where they piped that in, and I was so glad when I got fired from the waiting job because it was really bugging me. You know, over and over and over, that slush.

Kaplan So you decided to torment your audience?

Taylor No, no, not that, it was that—at some point, I thought, well, I've used a lot of different kinds of music. I think as a challenge for myself, I'll pick something that I really don't care for and see what I can do with it. And so I went—I remembered those waiting-table days, and went for the Mantovani. But it wasn't meant to annoy the audience, and actually, as I worked with it, by the time the piece was done, I actually began to enjoy it!

Kaplan All right, well, that's a good transition to the next part of our show, which we call the "Wildcard," where guests have an opportunity to pick music from any genre other than classical or opera, but you've been doing that all along! But for you, "Wildcards" show up in your dances, so tell me about Dream Girls, where I see that the music you used is a barbershop quartet.

Taylor Yes, yes. Well, I just liked the sound of four guys singing together, you know? It's nice, and it implies a kind of companionship, and there's no plot—it's a series of numbers, let's say. And all the numbers are about dream girls, except the dream girls are like nightmare girls. One of them, and she has a fat suit on, and she jiggles a lot, and the men have a terrible time lifting her, and another one, the song is "Hard-Hearted Hannah, the Vamp of Savannah," and she's really dangerous. And another one, "I Want a Girl Just Like the Girl That Married Dear Old Dad," and she seems to be an old-fashioned girl, but by the end of the number, she seems to be wearing the pants, you know, so it's that idea, it's twists on the lyrics.

Kaplan You like to shock the audience, don't you, it sounds like.

Taylor I think the audience, I don't know if they like to be shocked, but they like to be surprised and astonished, and I think that's a very important part of theatricality, you know? Of all the songs used in the dance, the one I picked today is called "Shut The Door, They're Coming Through The Window."

[Music]

Kaplan "Shut The Door, They're Coming Through The Window," a barbershop quartet sung by The Buffalo Bills, the "Wildcard" selection of my guest on "Mad About Music" today, award-winning choreographer, Paul Taylor. Not just a "Wildcard," by the way, but in fact the music for Paul Taylor's dance, Dream Girls. Now where did you get your eclectic taste for music? I understand that you had no musical training as a child and you really didn't come to music until you began to study dance at Juilliard, so how did you, shall we say, get acquainted with the repertoire?

Taylor I had no taste at all, so anything was fair game.

Kaplan Okay. Well, let's then return to the Baroque period, and I noticed that you used, of all composers, Bach, in at least seven of your dances. But in the work titled Promethean Fire, you've used those extraordinary transcriptions for full orchestra created by Leopold Stokowski. How did you discover those, and why did you choose them over the more authentic Bach versions?

Taylor I didn't discover them; I remembered them from my childhood in Fantasia. There's a sequence in Fantasia with Stokowski conducting and there are all these colorful shapes zooming around.

Kaplan Did the full orchestra transcriptions speak to you in a different way than the sort of classic, traditional Bach?

Taylor Yes, I loved, I wanted—again, it was a challenge, that I don't usually pick music that is so—such a big orchestra and so forceful, I'm afraid of getting swamped. But I thought, okay, I'll give it a try and for the way I pictured the dance, it seemed to be the thing to use.

[Music]

Kaplan Bach's Chorale, "Wir glauben all' an einen Gott," in a stunning transcription for orchestra created by Leopold Stokowski, performed by the Sidney Symphony Orchestra, Robert Pikler, conducting. A selection of my guest on "Mad About Music," choreographer Paul Taylor, music that inspired his ballet Promethean Fire. Now, I wonder if your profession gets in the way of your being able to truly enjoy music as most of our listeners do. Just listening. What I mean by that, is that when you're listening to music, it must always be going through your mind, ah, is that a piece I can use? First of all, is that true? Does your mind always interfere with just pure listening?

Taylor No, because if I'm not searching for music for a dance, or listening to the music that I've found, the first thing I do in the morning is turn the radio on to the classical stations. But I don't really listen, it's just because it seems like a friend in the room with me. Once in a while, I hear a piece and I'll stop what I'm doing and think, oh, wow, that's really beautiful. How did they do that?

Kaplan Do you listen to CDs as well?

Taylor I let the radio do it. And if the music station is having a fund drive, I switch channels.

Kaplan I hope you sent some money in first.

Taylor Sometimes.

Kaplan Do you ever wish you did study music and had learned to play an instrument?

Taylor It probably would have been a good idea but I tell myself it's okay, because it makes me listen really hard. I can't depend on a sheet music. And the way that I count music is very different than a composer or musician would count it. I have a whole other system that's more convenient for a dancer to count.

Kaplan I see. Now, when it comes to historical composers, if you had to pick one or two, with whom you might think would be such an ideal collaborator, if they were alive today, the one who could take your ideas and just spark to them, is there anyone who would come to mind?

Taylor Well, many, but you know, I keep going back to Handel. He seems like he must have been such a nice man, and I don't know anything about his personal life, I'm not sure anybody does, but if he were alive today, rather than me being alive in his day, that's one of the ones I would have picked.

Kaplan Okay. Well, let's return then to music from your dances, and in this case, another imaginative combination. First, mixing some Baroque music together, using several of Corelli's Concerti Grossi, combined with Malloy Miller's Prelude for Percussion. How did that all come together?

Taylor With a razor blade and splicing tape!

Kaplan A long time ago, then.

Taylor Well, yes. Well, no—I still use those things, believe it or not.

Kaplan This was music, of course, you put together for your ballet Cloven Kingdom.

Taylor It's very much of a collage of music, and it's all overlaid, and cut back and forth.

Kaplan But it's a shock when that modern Prelude for Percussion intrudes on the Baroque Corelli, isn't it?

Taylor It is, I guess. I don't mind it. But yes, it's different. But the idea for the dance was—well we use a program note, which is a quote from Spinoza, and he simply said, "Man is a social animal." And so the dancers are wearing formal evening wear and doing often animalistic movements. That dichotomy of our human condition.

Kaplan And you like that contradiction of the formality and …

Taylor Oh, yes, most of my dances are contradictions in one way or another.

[Music]

Kaplan Excerpts from various of Corelli's Concerti Grossi combined with Malloy Miller's Prelude for Percussion, all mixed together to provide the music for the dance Cloven Kingdom, created by my guest today on "Mad About Music," choreographer Paul Taylor. When we return, we'll hear Paul Taylor's final selection and I'll also have some personal observations about Robert Harth, Carnegie Hall's Executive Director, who recently passed away.

[Station Break]

Kaplan This is Gilbert Kaplan with my guest on today's edition of "Mad About Music," choreographer Paul Taylor. You know, it struck me as we were talking that what you actually do is in many ways at the center of a debate that has been raging in classical music—namely, whether all music, even if a composer didn't intend it, has a program. At least a hidden program within it. Now, you have found inspiration for stories and dance for music that I suspect many of your composers would have never dreamed was embedded in their music. Do you think this is true?

Taylor Yes, I do. It might not be the story that the composer had in mind. But anyway, yes, you can hear it that way.

Kaplan Now, you know, you mentioned Handel before, and I said at the beginning of the show, he was maybe a surprise recommendation for your Aureole because here your friend came up with all these pieces sewed up together. Now the slow movement from another concerto grosso seems made for your dance titled Airs. And I remember the Washington Post wrote that "The ecstasy of watching bordered on pain, the beauty of it approached the excruciating." Now that writer was writing about the production and not about the music. But I can imagine that the music was necessary for that, so tell me how Taylor and Handel came together in Airs.

Taylor Well, it was natural and in this particular "Largo", is the opening section of the dance, Airs, and in it I heard such pleasantness and contentment and a kind of appreciation—you know, you remember when you're really happy, do you remember those times?

Kaplan Sometimes.

Taylor I tell the dancers not to force the movement, to let it just happen. It shouldn't be pushy in any way, and it's as if they were remembering the good part of a love affair.

[Music]

Kaplan "Largo," from Handel's Concerto Grosso in B Flat major, the English Baroque Soloists led by John Eliot Gardiner, the final selection of my guest today on "Mad About Music," award-winning choreographer Paul Taylor, who chose this work for his dance, Airs. You know, reflecting on our conversation today, I'm wondering, do you feel that you're only able to express in choreography certain things and that they're not as easy to put into words when people ask about them?

Taylor Absolutely! I mean, dance isn't about words, I mean, you have words in a dance if you want. But it's a whole other realm, a whole other territory of expression. And that's what dance is about, is imagery, you see.

Kaplan All right, Paul Taylor, your achievements in choreography will endure forever, but we here at "Mad About Music" can only marvel at the way it has been the music, not the plot always, not even the dancing, that has so often inspired many of your best creations.

Before we conclude our show today, I'd like to reflect for a moment on Robert Harth, the Executive Director of Carnegie Hall, who tragically died some weeks ago. He was only 47 years old. He was only there just a little over two years at Carnegie, but Robert Harth initiated what I regard as a dramatically new artistic direction, combining Carnegie's legendary classical concerts with a fresh, heady mixture of jazz, world music, popular song and musical theater. I had a chance to observe Robert Harth's accomplishments first hand as a listener, but also as a member of Carnegie Hall's board, and I think it's fair to say that if there was anyone who was truly "mad about music" it was Robert Harth. Many of you will recall his appearance as a guest on our show last year, and the eloquent way he explained that a Carnegie concert should always be a unique experience.

Robert Harth Nothing should be ordinary there. What should be ordinary is that everything is extraordinary. And you take the wonderful gift we have, which is a remarkable hall, remarkable acoustics, a great tradition, a great history of the best artists in the world having performed there. You couple that with the fact that the great artists want to perform there, the great artists of today, and the great young artists who will be on our stage tomorrow in future years, and you add an audience that is discerning and receptive and hungry for great music and what you have is the ability to create memorable events, not just a concert.

Kaplan The late Robert Harth, Carnegie Hall's Executive Director, talking about the magic of Carnegie when he appeared last year on "Mad About Music." In his memory, I'd like to conclude our show today with a selection of my own: Gustav Mahler's touching song Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen, "I am lost to the world". With lyrics so poignant, they connect directly to Robert Harth in such a personal way. "I am lost to the world and at peace in a still land, in my own heaven, in my love, in my song."

[Music]

Kaplan Gustav Mahler's heart-felt song, Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen, "I am lost to the world," sung by Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, with the Berlin Philharmonic led by conductor Karl Böhm. Music in memory of Robert Harth, Carnegie Hall's Executive Director, who recently passed away. Until next time then, this is Gilbert Kaplan for "Mad About Music."

[Credits]
About Paul Taylor
He has been called a genius; a legend; a cultural icon. Time calls him "the reigning master of modern dance," and the New York Daily News declares him "the best choreographer in the world." But Paul Taylor considers himself, above all, a reporter whose job is to observe us and record his impressions. And, like a reporter, he strives for balance—in the way he approaches a subject from all sides, and ensures that each program contains a broad range of music styles. Whether investing everyday movement with breathtaking beauty or reminding us that we are not as removed from our prehistoric ancestors as we like to think, he rivets us with astonishing inventiveness, poignancy and wit. As prolific as ever after 49 years, he recently completed his 120th work.

Paul Taylor grew up near Washington, DC. He was a swimmer and a student of art at Syracuse University in the late 1940s until he discovered dance, which he then studied at Juilliard. By 1954 he had assembled a small company of dancers and presented his own choreography. A commanding performer, he joined the Martha Graham Dance Company in 1955 for the first of seven seasons as a soloist while continuing to make dances on his own troupe. In 1959 he danced with New York City Ballet as guest artist in George Balanchine's Episodes. Having created the masterful 3 Epitaphs in 1956, he captivated dancegoers in 1962 with his virile grace in the landmark Aureole. After retiring as a performer in 1975, Mr. Taylor devoted himself fully to choreography, and classics poured forth: Esplanade... Cloven Kingdom… Airs… Arden Court... Lost, Found and Lost... Last Look... Roses... Musical Offering... Company B… Piazzolla Caldera... Promethean Fire... and dozens more. Celebrated for uncommon musicality, he has set dances to Ragtime and reggae, tango and Tin Pan Alley, telephone time announcements and loon calls; turned elevator music and novelty tunes into high art; and found particularly cooperative collaborators in J.S. Bach and his Baroque brethren.

In 1960, Mr. Taylor's Company made its first international tour, to Spoleto, Italy; it has since performed in more than 450 cities in over 60 countries. In 1966 the Paul Taylor Dance Foundation was established to help bring Mr. Taylor's works to the largest possible audience, facilitate his ability to make new dances and preserve his growing repertoire.

Mr. Taylor is the recipient of dozens of awards and honors. He was awarded the National Medal of Arts by President Clinton in 1993. In 1992 he received an Emmy Award for Speaking in Tongues, produced by WNET/New York the previous year. He was a recipient of the 1992 Kennedy Center Honors "for enhancing the lives of people around the world and enriching the culture of our nation." In 1995 he received the Algur H. Meadows Award for Excellence in the Arts for work that "endures as some of the most innovative and important the world has ever seen." In 1995 he was named one of 50 prominent Americans honored in recognition of their outstanding achievement by the Library of Congress's Office of Scholarly Programs.

Mr. Taylor was elected to knighthood by the French government as Chevalier de l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres in 1969 and has since been elevated to the ranks of Officier (1984) and Commandeur (1990). In January 2000 he was awarded France's highest honor, the Légion d'Honneur, for exceptional contributions to French culture. He is the recipient of three Guggenheim Fellowships and has received honorary Doctor of Fine Arts degrees from California Institute of the Arts, Connecticut College, Duke University, Juilliard, Skidmore College, the State University of New York at Purchase, and Syracuse University. Awards for lifetime achievement include a MacArthur Foundation Fellowship—often called the "genius award"—and the Samuel H. Scripps American Dance Festival Award. Other awards include the New York State Governor's Arts Award and the New York City Mayor's Award of Honor for Art and Culture. In 1989 Mr. Taylor was elected one of ten honorary American members of the American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters.

Since 1968, when Aureole first entered the repertory of the Royal Danish Ballet, Mr. Taylor's works have been licensed for performance by more than 75 companies worldwide. They include American Ballet Theatre, Ballet Rambert, Cloud Gate Dance Theatre of Taiwan, English National Ballet, Guangdong Modern Dance Company of China, Joffrey Ballet, New York City Ballet, Paris Opera Ballet, San Francisco Ballet and Teatro alla Scala of Milan.

In 1993 Mr. Taylor formed Taylor 2, a company of six dancers who bring many of the choreographer's masterworks to smaller venues around the world. Taylor 2 also teaches the Taylor style in schools and workplaces and at community gatherings.

Paul Taylor's autobiography, Private Domain, originally published by Alfred A. Knopf and re-released by the University of Pittsburgh Press, was nominated by the National Book Critics Circle as the most distinguished biography of 1987. Mr. Taylor and his Company are the subject of Dancemaker, Matthew Diamond's award-winning, Oscar-nominated film, hailed by Time as "perhaps the best dance documentary ever."
Links & Resources:
» Paul Taylor's website
» Paul Taylor Dance Company at City Center