Mad About Music

Fritz Kreisler Caprice viennois. Fritz Kreisler, Violin. Carl Lamson, Piano. RCA 5910.

Christian Sinding Suite, Op. 10 in A Minor. First Movement. Jascha Heifetz, Violin. Los Angeles Philharmonic. Alfred Wallenstein. BMG 61740.

Karl Goldmark Violin Concerto No. 1 in A Minor, Op. 28. Andante. Nathan Milstein, Violin. Philharmonia Orchestra. Harry Blech. Testament 1047.

Erich Wolfgang Korngold Four Pieces from Much Ado About Nothing. "Masquerade". Glenn Dicterow, Violin. Gerald Robbins, Piano. Cala Records CACD0514.

Gabriel Fauré. Pavane, for Orchestra and Chorus ad lib in F-sharp Minor, Op. 50. Bransford Marsalis, Saxophone. The English Chamber Orchestra. Andrew Litton. CBS Records Masterworks MK 42122.

D. Cross / G. Cory "I Left my Heart in San Francisco". Tony Bennett. Arranged & conducted by Marty Manning. RPM/Columbia/Legacy C2K 86634.

Giacomo Puccini La Bohème. Excerpt from Act I. Luciano Pavarotti, Tenor. RAI Symphony Orchestra. Thomas Schippers. Allegro OPD 7001.

Max Bruch Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra and Harp freely using Scottish Folk Melodies, in E-flat Major, Op. 46 ["The Scottish Fantasy"]. Finale. Jascha Heifetz, Violin. Osian Ellis, Harp. New Symphony Orchestra of London. Sir Malcolm Sargent. RCA Red Seal 63470.

Kaplan: Concertmaster of the New York Philharmonic, Glenn Dicterow on today's edition of "Mad About Music."

[Theme Music]

Kaplan: For almost 25 years, he has sat in the first chair of the violins, serving as Concertmaster of the New York Philharmonic under three demanding and stylistically very different music directors. He's also had a distinguished career as a soloist and as a teacher. Glenn Dicterow, welcome to "Mad About Music."

Dicterow: It's great to be here, Gil. Thank you.

Kaplan: Now, as our listeners know, we rarely have professional musicians as guests on this show. The concept is, famous people who happen to love classical music. But now and then we invite a professional also, because after all, they too, are listeners, listening to things they don't play. So, when I invited you, I think you remember, I asked you to select music which you don't play. Now when I saw your list, I was a bit shocked, because the music you don't play, it turns out, was violin music - violin music you of course could play. So, I think to start off, you ought to explain yourself.

Dicterow: Well, basically, these particular pieces I feel are owned by either the composer or the violinist playing them. In the particular case of Fritz Kreisler, he put such a mark, an individual mark, on those works that I can't even conceive of doing them in any other way but as an imitation of what the original master did. And therefore I feel that even though you're not hearing the live performance, we still have wonderful recordings of these masters playing, in particular Fritz Kreisler playing this fantastic Caprice viennois; the way he achieves these double stops, and the fact of the matter is the way it was recorded, with almost, infinitely, the old-fashioned way of into the horn or with a very, very basic mike, onto a 78. You still hear an amazing amount of overtones that only he can achieve. I've never heard anything like that before, so I am really in reverence. I can't just conceive of it in any other way. So, I leave it to the great Fritz Kreisler.

[Music]

Kaplan: Fritz Kreisler playing his own composition, Caprice viennois on a somewhat scratchy 1929 recording, which, according to my guest today on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster Glenn Dicterow, is a performance never surpassed. Well, let's talk about your role as a concertmaster. Now, to music lovers who attend concerts, it's a bit of a mystery what the concertmaster actually does. They know that before the conductor comes out, you come out, get applause, take a bow. You look at the oboe, he plays one note, everybody tunes, you sit down, and then it looks like you just play with the rest of the violins, and yet I'm told that, as in most orchestras, you probably earn two to three times what anybody else earns, you get this applause. What exactly does a concertmaster do?

Dicterow: That's a very good question, and it's one that I'm asked quite frequently, of course. Basically, we're responsible, concertmasters are responsible for all the incidental and not so incidental solos that get put on the stand, the first stand, and there's some fairly big ones, we have Scheherazade, we have Ein Heldenleben by Strauss, Tchaikovsky's solos from the ballets.

Kaplan: But beyond the solo work, what does the leadership work involve?

Dicterow: The leadership is very important. You're really responsible for bringing in your section, and of course everybody's watching because sometimes the stages are so big that you need to have this visual contact, so people are watching for downbeats, the clarity of maybe what's not coming from the podium sometimes needs to be led by the first desk players.

Kaplan: You're saying that some conductors aren't clear enough, and therefore the orchestra will be uncertain when to play so they might look to you and you'll give them a heads-up, and then they'll come in with you more than with the conductor?

Dicterow: Absolutely. And you know, there are conductors who have very clear beats and sometimes even then, we're not used to it. So, it depends.

Kaplan: You could be a go-between in a way, between the orchestra and the conductor on some of these things.

Dicterow Basically, it is, yes, that's what it is, and sometimes the conductor will look to the concertmaster to impart an idea that maybe is not clear and he'll ask for a certain bowing or a phrasing and I have to make that clear to the rest of the section.

Kaplan: So in other words, he'll give you a general idea of what he wants, an effect he wants, and then you will turn that instruction into a technical solution explaining to the string section exactly how to execute this. All right, let's return to your music and the not-possible-to-beat-performances. Now, in the pantheon of violinists, few are more impressive than Jascha Heifetz, and I see he's on your list today, again playing a work by an obscure composer, the Norwegian Christian Sinding.

Dicterow: Yes, well, of course Sinding is also known for his famous piano piece, composition …

Kaplan: The Rustle of Spring ...

Dicterow: The Rustle of Spring, which every pianist has certainly heard of or played. And my mother used to sit and play that at the piano. And the reason I chose the Sinding was, in particular, I heard this recording as a very young lad, studying the violin in the 60s, I heard this for the first time, because my father is on this recording, it's the Los Angeles Philharmonic accompanying Jascha Heifetz, playing this Sinding Suite, with Alfred Wallenstein conducting, and my father being the principal second of the Los Angeles Philharmonic for many years, and he started in 1946, and retired finally in 1997, I believe. He sat, and when they recorded this piece, he came back and told me this incredible story that, as you know, as you will hear, the piece is extremely difficult, extremely rapid, and it's just amazing that when Heifetz started the recording session - he was playing great, of course - but by the tenth hour, he was even playing better. He just got better and better and there was no fatigue at all. And it was one of the most astounding recordings ever made. Any violinist will tell you that certainly it's never been surpassed. The way that he, the "bite" that he gets and the stroke in the first movement, and the passion and the virtuosity, basically just has never been equaled.

[Music]

Kaplan: The riveting opening of Sinding's Suite in A Minor with violinist Jascha Heifetz, the Los Angeles Philharmonic led by Alfred Wallenstein, a work chosen by my guest on "Mad About Music" today, New York Philharmonic concertmaster Glenn Dicterow. The relationship between conductors and orchestras are always tricky and the history of this relationship is always filled with great problems. In your experience, when it goes wrong, what are the kind of things that make that relationship sour, between the conductor and the orchestra?

Dicterow: Well, I believe that if there is not enough respect coming from the podium for the musicians…

Kaplan: How would that show up, a lack of respect?

Dicterow: Well, perhaps, a condescending attitude, perhaps stopping too much and, and speaking about the composition in a way that - of course, these are seasoned musicians we have in the New York Philharmonic and very often - you certainly have heard it millions of times - how to play a particular passage, or, you know, perhaps, historically, what the composition is about, sometimes it just gets to be a little bit redundant.

Kaplan: Now the New York Philharmonic has always had a reputation of being a so-called difficult orchestra. Now, when an orchestra is unhappy with the conductor and it wants to be quote, "difficult", what does that mean? They don't play when they're supposed to, they talk a lot, I mean, how does it show up? I'm not saying it happens with your orchestra today.

Dicterow: I think that this is a reputation that perhaps historically might have been deserved, but certainly no longer exists, and I think we're one of the most friendly and polite orchestras around these days.

Kaplan: What does it mean to give the conductor a hard time?

Dicterow: Well, I just think it means basically asking for something unreasonable, taking tempos that are unplayable, that can become an irritation to a lot of players.

Kaplan: And what do they do, then?

Dicterow: That would be talk, it would be perhaps a sarcastic remark coming from a member or several members. Basically you want that mutual respect between player and leader, and I try to do the same as a concertmaster. I never speak down to my section, I respect each and every one of them, having gotten in this orchestra, and it takes a tremendous amount of talent and artistic ability to get into this orchestra. I respect everybody and if that respect is there, then we don't have these problems. It's only when we have somebody on the podium who is probably a neophyte and doesn't really know how to address the orchestra.

Kaplan: Now, in the case of your history as a concertmaster, you have worked with three conductors at the Philharmonic, the three "M's".

Dicterow: Yes!

Kaplan: Mehta, Masur and Maazel.

Dicterow: We seem to be good at finding "M's".

Kaplan: How would you contrast them as music directors, either in their rehearsal style, what interests them, what their approach is. I know this is difficult for you to do in your position, I'm not asking you to be critical, I just want to know how you would characterize them as musicians.

Dicterow: Well, of course, I do have to get personal here because I…

Kaplan: I won't stop you! But I tried to let you off the hook a little.

Dicterow: Well, okay, I respect all three of the music directors of the New York Philharmonic over the past 24 years. In particular, Zubin Mehta is the one I spent the most time with, having come from Los Angeles as concertmaster where he was the music director. So, basically, I learned how to play in an orchestra with Zubin conducting. I feel Zubin is a tremendously gifted artist, and very instinctive. A lot of his musical ideas are just felt rather than analyzed, and he is an amazing technician with the baton and very exciting in repertory by Strauss, Tchaikovsky, Wagner. He really has an instinct about phrasing that very few have.

Kaplan: And Masur?

Dicterow: Masur is wonderful in Beethoven and Mendelssohn and Schumann. He's intellectual; he's a thinker, and very exciting as well. And I learned so much from him.

Kaplan: And then we come to the current music director.

Dicterow: Well, he's a brilliant, brilliant musician, of course, he's a wonderful violinist and I have great respect for him as an artist in that way, and his mind is awesome, what he's able to memorize and his thorough knowledge of the score is inimitable.

Kaplan: Now who was the most demanding? Of the three?

Dicterow: I think Masur was the most demanding. I think that he will not give up until he gets what he wants, musically, even during the concert.

Kaplan: How do players feel about that sort of attitude? Do they appreciate it, or do they think it's …

Dicterow: Well, I think it's sort of like when you have a very strict professor or music teacher, that you may hate it at the moment, but the results are so wonderful at the end, that you say, well, ah, it was worth it. It was worth the sweat and the pain. With Maazel we get tremendous results because of the clarity of his beat. It's a little lower-keyed, during rehearsals, because it's so logical the way he really maps everything out. So, you know, it's just different styles.

Kaplan: Well, we'll come back to this mysterious role of the concertmaster, his relationship with conductors, but now let's look further at your list of impossible-to-beat performances. And next, once again, we find a combination of a legendary violinist and an obscure composer.

Dicterow: Yes, Karl Goldmark to be exact. I believe he is most famous for his Rustic Wedding composition, but I first learned of Goldmark through Nathan Milstein, who was one of my very, very favorite violinists of all time. I grew up with his recordings of Bach, of Mendelssohn and Bruch, but one day I found this incredible recording of the Goldmark Concerto. It's a very romantic piece and his sound, his scope, in this composition is so miraculous. I have studied the piece, but I will never venture to play it because of this monumental performance.

[Music]

Kaplan: The Andante from Goldmark's Violin Concerto No. 1 with soloist Nathan Milstein and the Philharmonia Orchestra led by Harry Blech. One of the choices of my guest today on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow. You can learn more about Glenn Dicterow, or hear any of our prior shows by logging onto WNYC.org and then just click on "Mad About Music."

When we return, we'll focus on the other Glenn Dicterow, when he leaves his concertmaster chair to become a soloist and 10 lucky listeners can win a CD of him playing music by Korngold, Bernstein, Martinu and Corigliano. To enter, just send an email to mamproducer@aol.com. But we must receive it by 10:00 PM tomorrow evening, February 2, as a deadline. And as in a lottery, 10 winners will be drawn at random. And later in the show, we'll announce the results of the competition we presented on our last show, when our guest was Will Shortz, the crossword puzzle Editor of The New York Times. He offered the following clue: an answer that is three words for a total of seven letters, to fill in "The BLANK Trio". Only one person got it right.

[Station Break]

Kaplan: This is Gilbert Kaplan with my guest today on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow. Well, so far, we've heard three remarkable historical performances, performed by violinists that you say are so good, you wouldn't want to play those pieces. So let's talk about your role as a soloist. How much time do you get to perform outside the Philharmonic?

Dicterow: I get about ten weeks during the regular season.

Kaplan: And what will you do during those weeks?

Dicterow: During those weeks - for instance, I just came back from Anchorage, Alaska in January, of all times, to play the Bruch concerto. I was a guest artist there.
Certainly when I took the job as concertmaster, it was understood that I would need these times to have, to fulfill my solo ambitions, and I also take the time off to do chamber music. I have formed a piano quartet called the "Lyric Piano Quartet." My wife is the violist in the group. She's a wonderful artist, Karen Dreyfus, and we also play several concerts during the year on those weeks that I can take off.

Kaplan: Now, when I knew you were going to be on the show, I asked some of your colleagues what I should ask you, and one of them mentioned that of course you had just performed as a soloist with the New York Philharmonic and they said, "ask him what it's like to be a big star and then have to go sit back in the section with the rest of us." How do you respond to that?

Dicterow: I respond by saying that I think the word "also stars" when we sit down and play as a group. You know …

Kaplan: But there is a difference. Standing in front of an audience as a soloist …

Dicterow: There's a difference - yes, it does take some mental preparation to come out and be able to play amongst, in front of your peers that you're usually a team member of, and even though you're a leader. But it's difficult. It's very difficult because you always feel that you're only as good as your last performance, and I definitely feel that I think it's easier for me when I go in and play with other orchestras, as a guest soloist.

Kaplan: Now, when I invited you and asked you to select the music to be played today, I asked you to pick one work with you playing yourself. So, what did you bring us today?

Dicterow: Well, it's from a suite of four pieces, by Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Much Ado About Nothing.

Kaplan: Best known as a film composer, I think.

Dicterow: Absolutely. And I'm from Hollywood - I was born right off the Hollywood Freeway, my roots are there. My father was in the studios, too, and I worked in the studios, too. I've done some films. So, I mean, even though this is a little before my time, Korngold was certainly a legend in Los Angeles and a great composer who emigrated over here from Germany and he's written some miraculous compositions. Of course, his violin concerto is world-famous, also played by Heifetz. And he put his stamp on that, but I was looking, on this particular CD, I was looking to record something that a lot of people haven't played, and something with, of course, a piano and a violin. And these are just little gems.

[Music]

Kaplan: "Masquerade," from Korngold's four pieces from Much Ado About Nothing. Performed by my guest today on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster Glenn Dicterow, with Gerald Robbins at the piano. And 10 lucky listeners can win a CD of Glenn Dicterow playing the Korngold we just heard as well as works by Bernstein, Martinu and Corigliano. To enter, just send an email to mamproducer@aol.com. But we must receive it by 10:00 PM tomorrow evening, February 2, as a deadline. As in a lottery, 10 winners will be drawn at random.

Now, in your next selection, you opted for a type of music which, in a way, matches the approach of your colleague, Lorin Maazel made when he was on the show. He chose music by Bach that was written for the lute, but played on the guitar, and I see you've chosen an arrangement of a classical work arranged this time for the saxophone.

Dicterow: That's right. I am crazy about this artist. He's not the "famous" Marsalis, he's Bransford, who is the brother of Wynton. And he plays the most marvelous saxophone. He's actually recorded this album or a CD, are classical pieces. There are a lot of very standard pieces on this CD, but one in particular, the Pavane by Fauré, which is a favorite piece of mine, he does so hauntingly beautiful that this is the one that I choose most to listen to on the way to a concert when I'm driving on the highway, I'll just put that on, and it totally relaxes me.

[Music]

Kaplan: Fauré's Pavane, for Orchestra and Chorus, in a stunning arrangement featuring Bransford Marsalis on the saxophone, with the English Chamber Orchestra led by Andrew Litton. One of the selections of my guest today on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow. The Fauré arrangement for saxophone, in a way, is a perfect transition into the next part of our show, which, as our guests know, is our "Wildcard", where you have a chance to pick music completely outside the classical or opera repertoire. We've had some wonderful selections here. We even did a special show about them, in fact. So, what "Wildcard" did you bring today?

Dicterow: Well, in my spare time, when I'm not listening to classical music, I love to listen to popular artists, such as Billy Joel, Barbara Streisand, Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, I'm crazy about all of them. What I brought today was the recording of Tony Bennett singing, "I Left My Heart in San Francisco." I just love the way that man phrases. I also love San Francisco. I did some studying there when I was a teenager, with the teacher of Isaac Stern, Naoum Blinder, and I fell in love with that city. I also had an aunt and uncle that lived there and cousins, so I would end up spending weeks there. And every time I would go to Fisherman's Wharf, inevitably you'd hear the recording of "I Left My Heart in San Francisco," with Bennett singing. To me it personifies San Francisco and there's nobody who can sing that song the way he does.

[Music]

Kaplan: "I Left My Heart in San Francisco," sung by the legendary Tony Bennett. The "Wildcard" selection of my guest on "Mad About Music," today, New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow. You know, it's interesting that you would pick Tony Bennett singing that work, because it's very consistent with the rest of the show today, where you have picked artists who are so good that nobody else would want to play the works they're playing. I can't imagine anybody wanting to sing "I Left My Heart in San Francisco," having heard Tony Bennett sing it! I want to talk to you about other kinds of music, and when we return, we'll start with opera.

[Station Break]

Kaplan: This is Gilbert Kaplan with my guest, New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow. Let's now turn to opera. I suppose you have very little experience playing opera, although there are sometimes concert performances of opera. Now who are your own favorite opera composers?

Dicterow: Well, I would have to say Puccini is at the top of my list, followed by Verdi. I love Wagner, but not necessarily the operatic sections. The symphonic sections. Of contemporary operas, I love Britten.

Kaplan: Well, you did pick one opera to play today. What was that?

Dicterow: That was Puccini's Bohème. And in particular, this aria just sends shivers up my spine. I just love to listen to it.

[Music]

Kaplan: An excerpt from Puccini's La Bohème, sung by Luciano Pavarotti with the RAI Orchestra, Thomas Schippers conducting. A selection of my guest on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow. You know, the theme that is emerging on this show today is the remarkable, unique style, unique voice, call it what you will, of many legendary violinists. Now, you are also a teacher as well as a performer, and a much sought-after teacher, at Juilliard and the Manhattan School of Music.

Dicterow: That's correct.

Kaplan: Both schools. Now it seems fashionable these days to observe that although many violinists are dazzling and talented, they seem to lack that soul, they seem to lack that unique personality we associate with violinists from an earlier period. One, do you agree with that? And if you do, why has this happened?

Dicterow: This is a very loaded question. I do agree with that. I believe that certainly in the 20th century, the early part of the 20th century, we had such incredible stylists, such as Kreisler, Heifetz, Elman, Szeryng, Grumiaux. Everyone was recognizable in about around ten seconds. There was such a particular style, I think the same goes for acting, and for opera, I think that there was just a lot more individual, charismatic type of artistry out there.

Kaplan: Do you have a theory, then, as to how do we get to this situation?

Dicterow: I think part of the thing was that we're overexposed to too many recordings and too many performances, it's just too much of everything right now. And that we tend to imitate a little too much, and I don't think that those artists from the early 1900s of course had that media available to them.

Kaplan: All right, then let's come back to your stars, and Jascha Heifetz for your final selection.

Dicterow: Well, I studied with Heifetz for a short while, for about a year, when I was a teen, in Los Angeles, and he was teaching at USC, and of course all the musicians of Los Angeles and the world were influenced by his style and the Bruch Scottish Fantasy, in particular, is one of those pieces that I feel that in anybody else's hands, does not make it as a great composition. When this man, Heifetz, picks up this particular piece, it becomes a staggeringly great piece. And I've heard it with great, great artists, and never am convinced that it's a really wonderful composition, certainly not one of Bruch's best. Only when Heifetz plays it, he has so much color in it and the style is so fantastic, and beautifully recorded, that it's certainly one of my all-time favorite albums.

Kaplan: The finale of Bruch's Scottish Fantasy with violinist Jascha Heifetz and the New Symphony Orchestra of London, Sir Malcolm Sargent conducting. The final selection of my guest today on "Mad About Music," New York Philharmonic concertmaster, Glenn Dicterow, whose choices reflect the idea that a piece of music in a star's hands, a unique violinist's hands, is something so great other violinists might even not want to play it.

Now before we conclude the show, let me report on the result of our competition from our last show, when our guest was Will Shortz, the crossword puzzle Editor of The New York Times. The clue he offered was to complete the expression of "The BLANK Trio", where the BLANK was made up of three words, a total of seven letters. Several of our listeners came very close, but only one hit it on the button. The winner was Mike Moran, who lives in Massachusetts and is therefore an Internet listener to "Mad About Music." The correct answer? The Ax-Kim-Ma Trio, named after Emanuel Ax, Young Uck Kim and Yo-Yo Ma. [Any order of the performers' names was acceptable.]

That was the winner in our last show and on this show we'll have 10 lucky listeners who can win a CD with Glenn Dicterow playing the Korngold we heard earlier as well as works by Bernstein, Martinu and Corigliano. To enter, just send an email to mamproducer@aol.com. We must receive it by 10:00 PM tomorrow evening, February 2. That's the deadline. As in a lottery, 10 winners will be drawn at random.

Well, Glenn Dicterow, you've been a superb guest, not only introducing us to some remarkable legendary violinists, but also helping us to understand this mysterious role of the orchestral concertmaster. This is Gilbert Kaplan, for "Mad About Music."

[Credits]

About Glenn Dicterow
One of today's most prominent violinists, Glenn Dicterow is well known to audiences throughout Europe and North America both as an orchestral soloist and a recitalist. A top prizewinner in many international competitions, he appears frequently throughout Europe, the United States, Canada, Mexico, South America, Japan, Korea and China with orchestras such as the New York Philharmonic, National Symphony, Baltimore Symphony, San Francisco Symphony, Los Angeles Philharmonic, Indianapolis Symphony, Montreal Symphony, London Symphony, Hong Kong Philharmonic and the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, to name a few.

Mr. Dicterow has been Concertmaster of the New York Philharmonic since 1980 and is a featured soloist on many of its recordings. He has also recorded the Holdridge Concerto with the London Symphony Orchestra, the Bernstein Serenade with the New York Philharmonic, and for Cala and EMI, solo works of Korngold, Ives, Bernstein, Martinu and Corigliano.

An active teacher, Glenn Dicterow serves on the faculties of The Juilliard School and the Manhattan School of Music. He and his wife, violist Karen Dreyfus, are founding members of the Lyric Piano Quartet, currently in residence at Queens College.

Mr. Dicterow is a graduate of The Juilliard School, where he was a student of Ivan Galamian. Other teachers include Jascha Heifetz, Henryk Szerying, Manuel Compinsky, Eudice Shapiro and Naoum Blinder.