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GUEST: Richard Meier

RECORDINGS:

Ludwig van Beethoven Concerto for Piano and Orchestra No. 2 in B flat Major, op. 19. Third Movement. Berlin Philharmonic. Ferdinand Leitner. Wilhelm Kempff, Piano. Musical Heritage Society 535170W.

Leonard Bernstein West Side Story. Prologue. (Original Broadway Cast Recording). Sony Classical/Columbia/Legacy SK 60724.

Johannes Brahms Symphony No. 3 in F major, op 90. Fourth Movement. Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Sir George Solti. Musical Heritage Society 11170X.

Philip Glass Einstein on the Beach. "Building". The Philip Glass Ensemble. Nonesuch 79323.

Ludwig van Beethoven Symphony No. 9 in D minor, op 125. [Exerpt from Fifth Movement - final minutes] Berlin Philharmonic. Herbert von Karajan. Janet Perry, Soprano; Agnes Baltsa, Contralto; Vinson Cole, Tenor; José van Dam, Baritone. Wiener Singverein. Deutsche Grammophon 439 006-2.

TRANSCRIPT:

[Theme Music]

Kaplan: He was the youngest architect ever to won the coveted Pritzker Prize for Architecture. He has been internationally acclaimed for his eye-catching designs--mostly in white--for buildings ranging from art museums (the Getty), corporate headquarters, libraries, courthouses, bridges, churches, private residences and as you will hear today, even a design for a grand piano. Richard Meier, welcome to "Mad About Music".

Meier: Thank you, I'm pleased to be here Gil.

Kaplan: So let's talk about your piano - it's now, oh, in the late 80's I suppose, you've won the Pritzker Prize, you've been selected for the biggest plum in museums - the Getty Museum - and all of a sudden comes along an invitation to design a grand piano. How did that happen?

Meier: It came out of the blue. A German piano manufacturer approached me and said since you've designed products, furniture, interiors, architecture, all kinds of things, would you be interested in designing a piano? And so I began to think about the design of the piano, but what puzzled me was how to deal with the keyboard. So I thought as I watched different pianists play, they rarely look at the keyboard, then perhaps to make a keyboard that was, had a relationship to the form of the piano, I would make an all-white keyboard.

Kaplan: Well, you're the man for white.

Meier: And so I designed the piano and the keyboard had all ivory keys, which were white, and the manufacturer came back to me and said, no you can't do that. And I said, well why not. And he said, talk to one of our pianists who work with us, a wonderful Russian pianist, and he'll explain it to you. And so we met and we talked and I said, I've watched you play and you're magnificent, but you never really look at the keyboard, so why can't all the keys be white? He said, "I need to see the shadows".

Kaplan: Ah-ha. But I was surprised--of course I've seen a picture of the piano and it's an elegant piano but it's in black. I thought not only would the black keys be white, but in fact the entire piano would be white--a Meier white. Did you ever think about that?

Meier: I did think about it, but I felt that, that the really classic pianos, the most beautiful pianos and the quality of finish and reflection that you get in a piano is really because of the black lacquer finish. And that reflection is not the reflection I was talking about in terms of the keyboard, but was the reflection of the space around you, of the pianist, of the way in which you see reflections of his hands off of the black, and I thought that that was very important and something that should be maintained.

Kaplan: Well, that then brings us to your first selection, which is a work for piano--Beethoven's Second Piano Concerto. Is the attraction here for you the piano? Beethoven? Both?

Meier: Well, certainly its Beethoven, without question in my mind the greatest composer of all time. But I think it has for me a sense of scale, it has a dynamics to it, you feel that there's proportion in the thinking of, that goes through the organization of the Concerto. There's also a unity about it that somehow pervades and comes through as well as you might say a sense of color and texture and these are architectural terms as well as terms that …

Kaplan: Yes, it struck me listening to you, I thought you were describing a building there for a minute. All right, well then, let's hear a little of Beethoven's Second Piano Concerto.

[Music]

Kaplan: The Third Movement of Beethoven's Second Piano Concerto with soloist Wilhelm Kempff, the Berlin Philharmonic led by Ferdinand Leitner, a selection of architect Richard Meier on today's edition of "Mad About Music". Richard Meier not only designs wonderful buildings, but even pianos. I find it fascinating to talk to an architect about music because when you talk to composers, they often talk about the architecture of their music. Do you feel there's a connection between architecture and music?

Meier: Well Goethe had a quote that actually was condensed to say that "Architecture is frozen music"; but actually what he said was that "Architecture could also be thought of as silent music" and I think there is a relationship between architecture and music--you could almost call music "fluid architecture", because in both there is a sense of design, one uses space, one uses form, one thinks about the tonality of the building and always there's an overriding idea in which there's a relationship between the space, the form, the intonation, the mood, the sense of atmosphere. So there are many overriding elements which go into the creation of the idea of the work.

Kaplan: Spoken as a good composer, I would say. Now your next selection, Leonard Bernstein's West Side Story, certainly is rich in details. What is its special appeal to you?

Meier: I remember when I first heard West Side Story, I was extremely moved by it and I think what moved me at the time was the poignancy of the story and the relationship between the music and the story, which I felt, was overwhelming. And what I didn't realize perhaps immediately, but what I think is the strongest element for me about West Side Story is that you feel the architecture of the City, you feel the power of the City, the potency of life in the City in that work. And that comes through very strongly in various ways, some hyper, almost hypertension in the music, and some very calm melodies that also appear in West Side Story. But it has an aspect of New York in it that very few works that I've heard have.

[Music]

Kaplan: The Prologue from Leonard Bernstein's West Side Story, a work chosen by architect Richard Meier on today's edition of "Mad About Music". You can learn more about Richard Meier by logging on to our Web site on wnyc.org or you can hear any of our earlier shows there as well.

[Station Break]

Kaplan: This is Gilbert Kaplan with my guest, architect Richard Meier, on today's edition of "Mad About Music". Now you mentioned about West Side Story, its connection with New York City where I know you didn't grow up there, but you certainly lived in New York around the time it was popular then, but when did music first enter your life?

Meier: I began listening to classical music when I was in college. We had a roommate and together we had quite a good selection of records at that time. And it was all classical music, so that when I would work in the studio or in the apartment which we shared, most of the time we had music on.

Kaplan: But no music as a child? No piano lessons? Or things like that?

Meier: No.

Kaplan: I see. Now, when you moved to New York, did you listen to music?

Meier: I did, in fact I attended on a regular basis the concerts of the New York Philharmonic. I had a subscription ticket so I went regularly to Avery Fisher Hall to listen to concerts.

Kaplan: And what about opera? Did it appeal to you also? Does it appeal to you?

Meier: On occasion - I'm not an opera fan and I must confess I know very little about opera, but there are times when I have enjoyed opera.

Kaplan: Opera may not be your favorite, but I suspect that when you do go you have a keen eye for what's going on on the stage in terms of the design - that must be true, isn't it?

Meier: Absolutely, in fact, the best operas for me are the ones in which there is a relationship between the opera itself and the way in which it's staged. I think that there are operas in which you have a sense that the staging of it is almost secondary, that it's really all about the music. I think opera is about the music, but it's also about the performance of the music, which is different from, say, going to a concert.

Kaplan: Now what about music as surrounding your life, not necessarily intensely listening to it, but as, there is this connection between music and architecture - do you ever keep music on in the background when you work? Or do you find it an intrusion?

Meier: I rarely have music on when I work during the day. If I'm working on the weekends or at home at night, I would have music playing while I'm working. But normally I listen to music either at home in my living room or when I'm driving in a car.

Kaplan: When you have designed private residences for people have you had any clients who were absolute musical fanatics and wanted the ideal listening room?

Meier: We have one at the present time and the entire three stories of the apartment are wired with sound to come in every space - it's going to be quite a phenomenal experience because as you move through the apartment from one level to another the same intensity of music will exist.

Kaplan: All right, well then let's turn to your next selection, which is Brahms Third Symphony. Brahms is another one of the famous "Bs" of Beethoven, Brahms and Bach, of course, and those are some of the works you like. What is it that attracts you particularly to Brahms?

Meier: Well, I'm glad that you mentioned Beethoven and Brahms and Bach because they are in fact my favorite composers and when I think of architects of the Renaissance and post-Renaissance periods it's curious that it's Borromini, Bramante and Bernini, so it's the three "Bs" that keep appearing as great creators in that period. But Brahms has a monumentality of spirit I think in a work and there is a sense of architecture in that there is a form to the structure, there's a sense of time and place, there's also a flow of the melody that exists there and that kind of movement that you feel in the Symphony has an embellishment as it moves along - it's almost as we talked about architecture, the idea gets richer and richer as you listen to the work.

Kaplan: Now when National Security Advisor to President Bush Condoleezza Rice was on the show she characterized Brahms' music as being passionate without being sentimental. I mean, could that be a description at all of your buildings?

Meier: I think it's a very good description, thank you.

Kaplan: All right, well, if that's the case, then we'll listen to a little Brahms.

[Music]

Kaplan: The final movement of Brahms' Third Symphony, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra with conductor Sir Georg Solti, a selection of today's guest on "Mad About Music" Richard Meier. Now in looking over your vast portfolio of buildings, bridges, even as we talked about earlier, a piano, one item is clearly missing: a concert hall or an opera house. But that might change, as you are one of the three finalists being considered to design a new concert hall at Lincoln Center.

Meier: I've always wanted to design an opera house or a concert hall and hopefully some day that will happen; in fact, I entered a competition for the opera in Paris many many years ago. I didn't win the competition, but I thought it was an opportunity there to do something hopefully as great as what Garnier did in the Paris Opera, that was found to be too small; but I would love to do an opera house - it's a place where people come together for something very special and the same is true of a concert hall.

Kaplan: Now one of the problems in designing a concert hall I would think for an architect, particularly someone who has such a strong point of view as you do, is that it ultimately becomes a collaboration with the acoustician and the choice of materials and shapes, the very essence of what an architect does, your hands sometimes are tied by this. Can you imagine that kind of collaboration being comfortable for you?

Meier: I can. I think there are two aspects to the concert hall. One is the concert hall itself, the space in which you sit and the artists perform. The other is a whole experience of going to the building, the ambiance of the place, the relation of the place to the city, how it opens up and how you feel about going to that place.

In designing spaces for other uses, sometimes one does in fact create a space for music, a space that has extraordinary possibilities in terms of the sound and its not because you're thinking about that as use of the space, but its almost a byproduct of thinking about how that space is formed, how it's structured and what the experience is of being in that space.

Kaplan: Have you had that experience?

Meier: I have. I designed in Germany in a small town called Schwendi a cafeteria for workers that happened to have incredible acoustics, which I didn't even know about until we had the opening of the building. Mr. Weishaupt, who was the owner of the building, invited Philip Glass to come and to play for the opening in that space and it was magnificent.

Kaplan: So that must have been an interesting experience to hear Philip Glass for the first time.

Meier: Well, it wasn't the first time that I'd heard Philip Glass. I had the wonderful experience of having heard and seen Einstein on the Beach when it was first played here in New York.

Kaplan: And did it move you?

Meier: Oh, I thought it was wonderful. I thought it was extraordinary. I thought that the music was amazing. I thought the sets by Bob Wilson and the relationship of the design of the entire choreography of the piece in relation to the music was unique.

Kaplan: In fact, Robert Wilson who directed Einstein, as you said, said that he and Glass put the opera together the same way an architect would build a building with the structure of the music completely interwoven with the stage action, so I think this is a perfect example of architecture and music coming together. Now, with your permission, I have actually picked the section of the opera I'd like to play today and I think you'll approve of it because it's called "Building".

[Music]

Kaplan: "Building" from Philip Glass's opera Einstein on the Beach performed by The Philip Glass Ensemble, a selection of my guest on today's edition of "Mad About Music" Richard Meier. When we return we'll hear Richard Meier's final selection, one of music's architectural masterpieces. Meanwhile, mark your calendar now for Sunday, November 3, at 9:00 PM when my guest will be William Buckley, Jr.

[Station break]

Kaplan: This is Gilbert Kaplan with Richard Meier on today's edition of "Mad About Music". Now Philip Glass and Robert Wilson may have thought of themselves as architects when they produced Einstein on the Beach, but to my ears, at least, your next selection, Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, may be the greatest creation in terms of symphonic architecture. Do you agree?

Meier: I certainly do. I remember when I was a student and I first went to Rome and of course one of the first buildings any visitor to Rome goes to is St. Peter's and I remember walking up and through the extraordinary square, the colonnade created by Bernini as you approach the façade and go through the portal and into the space of St. Peter's and you're just not prepared for the magnificence of that experience. It's overwhelming - there's nothing like it. I feel the same thing about Beethoven's Ninth. When you listen to that music, the quality of space, the quality of everything about it, from the structure, to the form, to the color, to the tonality, to the highs and the lows - it all works and it works together in the most magnificent way. It's, for me, every time I listen to it, a memorable experience. It exudes joy, it smiles, it's happy, it's uplifting, it's everything you want a creative work to be.

[Music]

Kaplan: The concluding moments of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, the forces of the Berlin Philharmonic, soloists, the Weiner Singverein lead by Herbert von Karajan a selection of my guest Richard Meier, his final selection on today's edition of "Mad About Music".

Now in closing, I'd like to ask you a kind of "wannabe" type question, I've seen a survey that when people are asked if they could be anything else in life than their current profession what might it be and two professions always are at the top of the list: one is being an architect and one is being a conductor. Well, you hold one of those two positions and I've often wondered whether in your second life, in your next life, you ever had thoughts that maybe you might like to be a conductor?

Meier: I guess I have had that thought, but I would, if I were able to be a conductor I would also like to be a composer. I'd like to be a composer conductor - I would like to originate music as well as conduct music.

Kaplan: Well, on that note may I thank you for joining us today. I've always been intrigued with the connection between music and architecture and I shall always remember your quotation from Goethe today that architecture is "silent music" or "frozen music". This is Gilbert Kaplan for "Mad About Music".

[Theme music]
[Credits]

About Richard Meier

Richard Meier, 49, received his architectural training at Cornell University. His practice has included housing and private residences, museums, high-tech and medical facilities, commercial buildings, and such major civic commissions as courthouses and city halls in the United States, Europe and Asia.

His most renowned projects include: the High Museum in Atlanta; the Frankfurt Museum for Decorative Arts in Germany; Canal+ Television Headquarters in Paris; the Hartford Seminary in Connecticut; the Atheneum in New Harmony, Indiana; and the Bronx Developmental Center in New York, all of which received National Honor Awards from the American Institute of Architects (AIA).

In 1984, Mr. Meier was awarded the Pritzker Prize, considered the field's highest honor. In the same year, Mr. Meier was selected as Architect for the prestigious commission to design the new Getty Center in Los Angeles. Among projects recently completed by Richard Meier & Partners are: the City Hall and Central Library in the Hague; the Museum of Contemporary Art in Barcelona; the Stadthaus (Civic Exhibition and Assembly Building) in Ulm, Germany; Hypobank Headquarters in Luxembourg, the North American Headquarters building for Swissair in Melville, New York and the Museum of Television & Radio in Los Angeles. In addition to the Getty Center now under construction and scheduled to open to the public in 1997, the firm is currently at work on the United States Federal Courthouses in Islip, New York and Phoenix, Arizona, and the Euregio Bank building in Basel, Switzerland.

In 1989, Richard Meier received the Royal Gold Medal from the Royal Institute of British Architects. He is a Fellow of the American Institute of Architects, and received a Medal of Honor from the New York chapter of that organization in 1980. His numerous design awards include 12 national AIA Honor Awards and 31 New York AIA Design Awards, as well as the Arnold W. Brunner Memorial Prize for the American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters. In 1990, Mr. Meier was elected to the Belgian Royal Academy of Art; in 1991, he received an Honorary Doctorate degree from the University of Naples. The French Government honored Mr. Meier in 1992 as a Commander of Arts and Letters, and in 1995, he was elected Fellow to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.