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Comments

• [1] Alice from Westchester July 23, 2008 - 09:31AM

  Testing is really just snapshot of one day in a life. It should simply be interpreted as aptitude.......... and be used as a factor in a decision, not THE DECISION.

  Unfortunately, no matter how testing is modified, selection committees can always use test scores as a starting place in their decision making.

  We just have to hope that committees exercise their best, comprehensive judgement in matching student to institution - and not be too influenced by the 'quota needs' of the day.

  
  
• [2] Chris from NJ July 23, 2008 - 10:12AM

  Yes, they have been an accurate measure of my abilities. I've never seen a smart person do poorly or a slow person do very well on the SATs.

  
  
• [3] Desmond from Bronx July 23, 2008 - 11:09AM

  The MCAT and SATs are not an accurate measurement of one's ability, but are simply a way to make the admission process less chaotic and smoother for the admission committee to neat and pick applicants. They measure one's test taking ability and even the brightest students fall victims to these tests. One's ability is affected by one's language, culture, and environment, and overall social and economic upbringing. There are those you'll least expect both in H.S and college who do perform well if not better. Further, a good few students who do make it to college and medical schools with high standardized scores are one of those few who are incapable of handling the pressure and course loads and a few end up dropping out and not performing a well.

  SO How are these standardized tests a true reflection on ones performance in this various institutions?

  
  
• [4] Scott from Brooklyn July 23, 2008 - 11:16AM

  These tests are not meant to test performance. A brilliant person who scores high on the MCAT may buckle under the pressure of an ER, but they are still brilliant. They are meant to test aptitude and intelligence. As an SAT tutor, I have found that they accurately reflect a person's intelligence. Everybody has a ceiling, and while learning test strategies can get someone closer to that ceiling, that ceiling is properly determined by a person's intelligence.

  
  
• [5] jo from westchester July 23, 2008 - 01:06PM

  Have a 8th grader and a 5th grader. 8th grader excels in English, 5th grader struggles in reading (below grade level) and receives support services. Both achieved 3s on recent standardized ELA tests.

  
  
• [6] shaun from Manhattan July 23, 2008 - 01:12PM

  I have just received my M.A. in international affairs and want to pursue a PhD. My academic record is outstanding, and I have published/will publish more academic articles and opinion essays than most of my contemporaries, and am even working on a book... yet because I have not taken the GRE nearly all PhD programs won't give my application a second look.

  In light of my accomplishments thus far, and the potential for continued success, one would think a reasonable faculty would waive the GRE requirement. Alas, none of these schools, including the Ivy League, are willing to do so, simply because the GRE is deemed too important of a measure of potentiality.

  One last thing--the companies that run the LSAT, MCCAT, ACT, SAT, GRE, etc are rackets. They hold monopolies on this service and should be broken up. Is this not illegal somehow?

  
  
• [7] jane from buenos aires July 23, 2008 - 01:18PM

  Those standardized tests only tell you one thing: who is good at figuring out how to take standardized tests!! When I was a student, I always scored very well on standardized tests. I was a mediocre student and I coasted through high school, getting decent grades without studying or putting in much effort. I always considered myself to be very smart because of all my 99th-percentile test scores. When I got to college I was rudely surprised to find that it's hard work that really counts, not just being sharp and good at taking tests!

  Now I've finished college and I've been a working professional for 8 years. Nothing has ever been as easy to succeed at as those stupid standardized fill-in-the-blank tests were. In the real world, I find myself struggling to succeed and admiring people who are creative, ambitious, tenacious, hard working, adaptable, and have lots of "emotional intelligence."

  To me, these are the most important predictors of success in any endeavor, and none of them can be tested on a multiple-choice standardized test!

  
  
• [8] Mike in Manhattan from Inwood, NYC July 23, 2008 - 01:32PM

  In NYC High Schools (I don't know about elementary or middle schools) administrators receive bonuses for increased standardized test scores. Since many tests are scored at the schools, Assistant Principals have a strong incentive to turn their backs on teachers who cheat and arrange with each other to exchange tests and score their own students' work.

  There must be far stronger checks and balances to insure that tests in NYC actually do tell us what they theoretically might. To start, high stakes tests must be scored anonymously and in truly neutral locations.

  
  
• [9] c from westchester July 23, 2008 - 01:36PM

  In september I will be a high school senior, so I have taken the SAT. I have seen my friends spend money on classes and private tutors to bring up their scores, yet I don't think these standardized tests show our abilities at all. In fact, it has given us more stress in our lives because it comes with the notion of "get a good score, go to a good college, have a good life". While I understand that they tell us these tests are the only way that colleges can look at everyone on the same level, isn't there another way that can be done and show our abilities as learners, not as good (or bad) test takers?

  
  
• [10] hjs from 11211 July 23, 2008 - 01:41PM

  c

  i can tell you from experience those test matter!

  people like seeing u meet benchmarks that don't measure anything real. they are lazy but they have life and death control over you until u get your first real job then it's up to u.

  
  
• [11] liz from harlem July 23, 2008 - 01:44PM

  as an SAT tutor I am amazed at how crazy people get over these scores.

  I have seen many many students achieve HIGHER scores that are above their abilities by INTENSE tutoring.

  Many many students are going to schools they have no business being at.

  These students have to work hard to do this, but the skills they gain are game-playing skills, test skills.

  After they get into college, how does this translate into life learning?

  It seems wrong to reward people for this one way of achievement. These tests just can't test how well people think for themselves or question the world around them.

  I see kids turning into robots just looking for the "right" answer to beat the test and never get into the complexities and the grey areas between clearly right and clearly wrong, where things get interesting.

  I also see a lot of girls especially who are brilliant readers and learners and conversationalists, and they panic in these tests and never show what they really know.

  meanwhile a much more "simple" student who doesn't care as much will just memorize strategies and get a higher score than the girl who has a more complex understanding.

  don't get me started about the wealth gap and tutoring and scores.

  If the school system paid better and allowed me more freedom and a small class size, I'd be out of this standardized test business in a second.

  It seems that the school system is just turning into its own standardized test business, so nevermind.

  
  
• [12] Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ July 23, 2008 - 01:46PM

  Boooo SAT’s…. The first time I took the SAT test, I scored 1100. I was then forced to take all kinds of SAT prep classes. Thought I was going to kick butt the second time around. Instead, I got a 750…. To those that think the SAT is so accurate and so important, how do you explain this? I’m no geniuses but I did score an 126 on my IQ test which I believe puts me a little smarter then the average bear… How do you explain my dramatic SAT flip flop? Maybe it was my IQ test that was flawed….

  
  
• [13] Che from Washington D.C. July 23, 2008 - 01:49PM

  Junior year in high school I was the national runner up for the Princeton u. moot court high school competition… the admissions department strongly urged I submit an application… I was an active African American male student in high school and had acceptable grades… unfortunately, I my SAT score was not near acceptable admissions for a lot of schools, Princeton included

  I am currently a White House summer intern and a Rutgers philosophy undergrad student…

  That test may have limited my options but it never limited my potential…

  
  
• [14] ann from new jersey July 23, 2008 - 01:54PM

  Are we not the only industrialized country in the world that does not have a national test?

  
  
• [15] Kristina from soho July 23, 2008 - 01:54PM

  I am 25 years and working as an architectural designer. Last fall I applied to a few ivy league and non ivy league schools for a masters degree in Architecture. EVERYONE encouraged me to apply- even after taking the GRE multiple times and not meeting certain school's test score requirement. My portfolio included nice projects: successful international design competition, digital videos, professional work, publications, etc., but I was not considered for admission due to my low GRE score. My undergraduate GPA is great.

  How can I not be considered on account of one factor of my entire application package?

  Few months ago I was told I am bipolar and my therapist suggest that I take the GRE one more time with my medication now. I have decided to go to Cranbrook Academy of Art, an institution who did not ask for test scores, and who is offering me a grant.

  
  
• [16] Mike Robinson from Washington Heights July 23, 2008 - 02:02PM

  Autistic children are not retarded, as Daniel Koretz so ignorantly said. There is a range of disorders, from mild to extreme, now grouped under "Autism Spectrum Disorders." Children with one of these disorders have developmental problems; many of them are of above-average intelligence. Too bad Leonard didn't know enough to crrect him. I hope he will do that tomorrow and apologize.

  
  
• [17] hjs from 11211 July 23, 2008 - 02:04PM

  Jon P.

  not enough sleep before the 2nd test?

  too much confidence?

  
  
• [18] hjs from 11211 July 23, 2008 - 02:07PM

  Mike

  he did not say that. he said

  "Autistic, retarded" meaning both groups.

  
  
• [19] Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ July 23, 2008 - 02:15PM

  Kristina,

  Your portfolio is everything…. It shows how you think and approach and solve problems that need to be solved. It also shows the quality of your work. Your first processional job with your master’s degree will be decided from your portfolio, not your GRE score. Schools that offer masters degree for architecture that only care about GRE are not even worth wasting your time to get into. Even the Ivy League ones…. One word of advice, don’t tell your future employer that you’re Bi-Polar. That could be a deal breaker.

  
  
• [20] Robert Godfried from Bronx July 23, 2008 - 02:19PM

  Bloomberg's agenda is to break the teacher's union, close the comprehensive neighborhood high schools, (declaring them "failing" schools, due to arbitrary test criteria) replacing them with mini schools that will then be gradually privatized.

  In the name of test score "improvement," career ed, arts, and electives, have been severely cut back or eliminated in NYC High Schools.

  In order to prove their superioriry to the comprehensive high schools they've replaced, the new mini high schools pressure teachers to pass undeserving students, manipulate scoring of tests, concentrate heavily on "test prep" instead of teaching, institute questionable "credit recovery" options allowing students to make up failed classes with token assignments, and penalties & rewards are imposed on administrators & staff based on school test performance.

  It is laudable to have this program/forum.

  Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of WNYC listeners' children do not attend neighborhood high schools - they go to selective schools/programs or private schools.

  
  
• [21] Jon P. from Hewitt, NJ July 23, 2008 - 02:24PM

  hjs,

  Back then in high school, I think maybe to much hemp… But more likely I think just not liking tests in general…. My mind thinks in pictures, not words, if that makes any sense… No big pretty color pictures in the SAT tests I took….

  
  
• [22] hjs from 11211 July 23, 2008 - 03:13PM

  Jon p

  i hear u buddy.

  
  
• [23] Sci Ed July 23, 2008 - 11:50PM

  SAT and GRE scores measure your competency at taking tests. Since attending school requires test taking, the standardized tests provide some measure of your competency (recognizing that the tests represents only snapshots in time), although not all facets of it. One of the reasons admission offices have to rely on these tests, however, is the fact that there is no way to calibrate course grades received at one school against grades received at another school. As long as course grades cannot be compared among schools, there will be a need for standardized tests of some sort.

  
  
• [24] Cheryl July 24, 2008 - 02:00AM

  Middle school standardized tests in Eng. and Math. Scores are up this year, so it's reported. Any comparison between levels of difficulty of exams from year to year? Were this year's tests easier?