On Demand
Underreported: Are Sex Offender Laws Working?
US sex offender laws may do harm than good, according to a recent report from Human Rights Watch. Strict notification laws and residency requirements don’t reflect the reality of the risks children face, may not protect victims, and violate the basic human rights of former offenders.
Sarah Tofte is a researcher at Human Rights Watch; Linda runs a support group for families of registered sex offenders. Elizabeth J. Letourneau, Ph.D. works with juvenile sex offenders. She's Associate Professor at the Family Services Research Center of the Medical University of South Carolina.
Weigh in: What do you think about current sex offender laws? Are they working? We’d like to hear from people associated with both victims and offenders.
Read HRW’s report "No Easy Answers: Sex Offender Laws in the United States"
Visit Linda’s blog, "There IS Life After Sexual Abuse"
Visit the Sex Offender Support and Education Network (SOSEN)
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It is pretty obvious that the current laws are not working and common sense tells us that they actually place children in MORE danger, rather than less. We NEED to listen to the experts. We MUST stop creating laws just to "look tough" on sex offenders and appease a public that has been misled for years about the facts regarding sex offense.
Until we truly place our childrens saftey FIRST and not REVENGE, we will never make a dent in this ongoing problem
Current sex offender laws actually harm children by branding many of them as "sex offenders", often for normal childhood sexual experimentation, underage romantic relationships, or pranks. What few people realize is that "sex offenses" are not the same as "sexual abuse." There are a lot of statutory sex offenses (illegal because of age, not because of coercion of abuse) and offenses that are indecent rather than abusive. Yet, for these acts, kids are being placed on registries, imprisoned, tracked, banned from their homes, schools, and jobs, and sometimes placed in abusive "treatment" programs that require them to admit to a deviant and aggressive nature. They are treated as if they are worse than people who commit brutal, violent physical assault, who never face such consequences. (See documentation at www.ethicaltreatment.org) Yes, sometimes kids behave in sexually aggressive ways. But when they do, they should be treated as humanely as kids who behave aggressively in non-sexual ways.
The current destruction of these kids (and adults') lives is clearly not due to a desire to protect children, but rather to political grandstanding, financial rewards, and fear, hysteria, and hatred promoted by the mainstream media and vigilante groups (like Perverted Justice). We have to wonder who the real "predators" are in all of this.
These laws do not work, read more of my thoughts from my blog, here:
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/04/my-thoughts-sex-offender-law-issues.html
like the "war" of drugs another failure of an over reaching government pandering to get votes
In Florida we have many dead, moved out of state, deported, offenders on our registry, just to inflate the registry and get more Federal money.
Many States and the AWA stipulates that the employer be listed on the registry. Many, many are losing their jobs because employers do not wish to be listed on the registry.
How many of these men were abused themselves?
Abuse IS totally out of control today.
Look at the Boy Scouts, and how they attempted to purge themselves of all "Gay" leaders.
This kind of abuse is quite common, not only among girls abused by fathers/family members, but
also boys at the tender age.
Maybe in about 10-20 years, we wont have as many mid aged victims that were never reported, or were ACTIVELY REPRESSED.
Georgia Court Overturns Sex Offender Law
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: November 21, 2007
Filed at 2:09 p.m. ET
ATLANTA (AP) -- Georgia's top court overturned a state law Wednesday that banned registered sex offenders from living within 1,000 feet of schools, churches and other areas where children congregate.
Overly restrictive residency laws are a real problem, like Miami's law requiring sex offenders to live 2500 feet from any school, playground or day care center which is rapidly creating a colony of homeless sex offenders who are being told by their parole officers which bridge they may live under. There simply is nowhere else in Miami Dade County (other than the middle of the Everglades) where they can live. Check out a story in the Miami New Times by Isaiah Thompson, "Sex Offenders Set Up Camp" published December 13th. Sex offenders are a mixed group, of course, but many committed their offenses years ago and have lived productive lives since then; many have families who care for them, but they are not allowed to live with them. (Disclosure: Isaiah Thompson is my son.)
Hi,
I'm wondering if your guests think that the program "Law and Order: Special Victims Unit" (which seems to be on cable at least twice a day) contributes (negatively or positively) to public thinking about sex offenders and/or related public policy.
Thanks
SUE:
Regarding perps who were also victim of this?
I'd say LARGE amounts!
I know of one personally.
And interestingly enough, I too, was abused when young, and surpressed memory for over 40 years.
I have also been attacked by these vigilantes who call me pro-pedophile or pro-sex offender, just because I have a blog about these issues.
These people are "terrorists" IMO, and are not helping anything but making things worse.
Go to Corrupted-Justice, here, to see who PJ and the vigilantes they have linked on the bottom of their page, are really like.
http://www.corrupted-justice.com/
I have also had to move from my fathers home, which I've lived with my whole life, and have had to move 8 times within 1 1/2 years, due to churches, schools or day cares opening up.
These laws do NOT work, and the public has proven they cannot handle the registry, see these links:
Deaths, Suicides, Vigilantism:
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/Death
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/Harassment
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/Stabbed
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/Suicide
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/Vigilante
Other links:
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/Homeless
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/JuliaTuttle
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/UnderBridge
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/12/corrupted-justice-articles-of-interest.html
And also these recidivism and facts links:
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/%2BRecidivism
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/%2BFactsAndMyths
Georgia Justices Overturn a Curb on Sex Offenders
By BRENDA GOODMAN
Published: November 22, 2007
ATLANTA, Nov. 21 — The Georgia Supreme Court unanimously struck down a state law Wednesday that limited where registered sex offenders could live, ruling that the statute was so restrictive it unconstitutionally deprived the offenders of their property rights.
This article includes a map showing there is almost no place in dekalb county where an offender can live.
I cant see why a man that is 22 having a consensual relationship with a 15 year old can be a risk when that guy is 40 years old, even if he has 20 psychiatrists saying hes not a risk. They tricked a lot of people in the beginning to being a registered sex offender because if someone took a plea in 1995 the judge or district attorney did not say anything about being on the registry. Then in 1997 most got a letter in the mail saying that they had to register or go back to jail. That to me is cheating by the state. Nowadays the judge has to tell the person to register BEFORE they take a plea. So there are a lot of people that got caught up in an unconstitutional act by the states in the beginning of megans law. The courts have not admitted this, saying this act was constitutional and not punishment. Everyone knows this is an extreme burden on an offender. This is as much punishment as being on probation, so in fact it IS punishment, the courts wont admit it though.
Read about the Georgia sex offender law being shot down from the Southern Center for Human Rights, here:
http://www.schr.org/aboutthecenter/pressreleases/HB1059_litigation/HB1059_litigation.html
The registries need to be taken offline, like they were before, the public cannot handle the online registries.
Youths who are not adults, need to NOT be charged as adults for these crimes, and not be on the registry and their lives ruined forever.
Repeal the laws, fix them, so they do NOT violate the United States Constitution....
And don't forget about YESTERDAY's teaching momemnt.
Britany's sister (Jamey-Lynn) a wholesome sweet 16, mother to be.
And her 19 year old BOYFRIEND.
Now in SOME states, that is a sex offense.
in some states they have a romeo exemption if the
male is within a few years of her
(he better hope it's a three year difference, and not only TWO years!)
Ahem...
comments from the pro-profilers here?
MHHHH
The public's outrage against sex offenders is appropriate. while girls who are raped as children don't tend to go on to become offenders themselves, they do sometimes go on to kill themselves, or become suicidal, and/or to suffer throughout their lifetimes. So the likelihood of perpetrator recidivism isn't relevant. Anyone who rapes a child once should be put away forever.
Residency Restrictions should be limited to the few who are known to be a danger. U.S. Department of Justice says 3.5% recidivists rate and the registry should reflect only those who are a risk and certainly one who crime is 10/20 years old should be removed since the contract with the court has been fulfilled. In short, abolish residency restrictions and put the registry into the hands of the police only.
Julie,
You are assuming everyone labeled a "sex offender" is a "child molester" which is incorrect.
Bureau of Justice study quoted by Linda is here:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#recidivism
No, Z, there are also those who are guilty of sexual battery and assault and rape.
But if you take a plea bargain you don't plead UP you plead DOWN.
Of course, as a man convicted of child molestation who took a plea you would know this.
And speaking of vigilantes, here they come....
Stitches,
You are correct, there is sexual battery and assault and rape, why are you distorting what I say, as usual???
For people who don't know all of my case, seeing "child molestation" they assume the worse.
Like I've told you MANY times, I did not touch, have sex with or rape ANY child, period, yet you continue to assume I did.
Get a life, quit stalking and harassing me and others.
You see folks, this is one of the vigilantes I was talking about...
He and others pick and chose what they report to people and distort the truth...
Again, check out Corrupted Justice, they are ex-PJ staff, and will show you what the REAL PJ and these vigilantes are ALL about...
I'm sure I can expect more BS on your blog, which I'm sure will be all lies, like usual...
Also Stitches, I was not talking to you, now was I...
Just Google STITCHES77 and see the BS this person is spewing...
Why are you calling me a vigilante? I'm a blogger just like you.
You said you took a plea deal. You were convicted of child molestation. What I'm saying is that if your story is true that a little girl looked INTO your bedroom and saw you nude and you then took a plea deal you would not be on the Georgia SOR for child molestation it would be something far less. So stop lying and accusing ME of lying. If it's not true go accuse Georgia of lying.
I'm not stalking or harassing. I'm uncovering your lies. If you want to be an activist you need to be honest otherwise it will come back and bite you. So exactly which one of us is the one "distorting the truth"? I can back up every single thing I say and all you can do is say "see my blog and the DOJ for the REAL facts" when you know perfectly well that is a ridiculous statement.
You cannot take a study done over a period of 3 years and claim it is the be all and end all of recidivism knowledge when we both know that meta analysis over periods as long as 30 years have proven that the recidivism rates for sex offenders continue to rise and rise and rise. So let's not "distort the truth and the REAL facts" eh Zman?
Wow what a shock (insert sarcasm)! All the people whining about sex offender registries and complaining about laws regarding sexual child abuse/torture are either Registered Sex Offenders themselves (like Zman and the commenting ilk) or their partners/families.
So, riddle yourself this average reader...would child molesters, like the ones responding here, complain and whine about child abuse laws if they weren't successful? They WANT them to be unsuccessful. They want laws that have loopholes and that offer them the easiest access to children with the least amount of accountability and consequences. That's the reality.
Do you need to be speaking to me for me to respond to your statements Z?
That's a new one on me. Nevertheless I WAS addressing YOU.
Once again, you distort the truth, that is NOT what occurred.
You could kill every single sex offender right this second, and more would follow. So how is anything about these laws working?
You are just people who "get off" on doing what you do. That is the MO of PJ and others like them.
When will people ever realize no matter how tough on crime, all the zero tolerance, all the registries in the world will not prevent a murderer from murdering, a thief from stealing, a dealer from dealing, a user from using, a rapist from raping....accusations on any sex crime, child abuse, or domestic violence will literally nail your butt to the wall! No DNA has to be present, No violence has to be present..... HEARSAY ALONE IS LITERALLY NAILING THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO THE WALL BECAUSE THESE LAWS ARE BIASED.
I am not saying anything further. You people do nothing but distort and ridicule people, instead of trying to come up with SOLUTIONS, you exact revenge on people, which does NOTHING!!!!
Why don't you suggest some real solutions to end sexual abuse???
Sex Offenders and their sympathizers certainly want sympathy because the sex offender *paid his dues* to society, and now has to be on this *list* which makes life hard on *them*.
Lets look at this from the victims side first, because the victim is an innocent person, who was brought into being a victim because of the sex offenders' actions. Now this victim has repercussions from being a abused. They suffer for life and are forced to become something they were not meant to be: Victims just to start with.
Because of the sex offender's actions, the victim suffers for life in more than one way.
Many times they are so adversely affected they commit suicide.
How sad that we must have to go through this at all! All because a person was more concerned for his own sexual gratification versus the victims.
Child porn charges are just as dangerous to children as the molester because they give the downloader satisfaction (of the sickest kind) and often make their sexual cravings worse, and often help in committing sexual abuse to a child.
Sex offenders of every kind need to be kept in place and order because they cannot be trusted.
We humans should cherish each other much more than this! Much more than to allow a child offender or adult rapist to walk freely among us!
More Strict regulations need to apply!
Just check out my blog and you can see the insanity of these laws for yourself folks, don't listen to these idiots, they distort everything and provide disinformation.
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/
I think my not reoffending in almost 20 years speaks for itself, and my blog as well. I was also a victim of sexual abuse, so I know both sides of the story.
You didn't REOFFEND in 20 years??? I thought you said you never offended?
THIS isn't what happened either. Tell the truth Zman.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/9L45tNdj.png
Zman
You say you were a victim well shame on you for not breaking the cycle.
There is no excuse!
I wish you people would take your "personal" feud else where.
The broadcast was thoughtful, intelligent and informative. Thank you Leonard
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/%2BIntroduction
I am NOT pro-pedophile or pro-sex offender but pro-Constitution. I am totally against any form of abuse to any animal or human being. Anybody who commits any crime should be punished. But, once that person has done the time they were convicted under, via contract, and is off parole and/or probation, they should be able to get on with their lives without all the rules and regulations. No other criminal has to live by such draconian laws, so why sex offenders? If we must do this for sex offenders, then I think, to be fair, all criminals must be under similar rules and regulations.
When an ex-offender is forced to move from his/her home, thus having to sell it, cannot find another home within the law due to the residency "buffer" zones, get fired from their jobs due to being on the registry, cannot find a new job due to being on the registry, their husband/wife lose their jobs due to a significant other being on the registry, their children lose their friends and are harassed and bullied in school due to a family member being on the registry, thus destroying the children's lives, ex-offenders are forced into homelessness and to live under bridges, harassed by police, neighbors and probation/parole officers, have to wear "I'm a sex offender T-shirt" or have a neon green license plate on ALL their cars, have "sex offender" on their drivers license and forced to renew their licenses every year, forced from shelters during tornadoes or hurricanes, cannot give blood at some places due to being discriminated against for being on the sex offender registry, denied housing due to being on the registry, signs placed in their yards inviting harassment and ridicule from the neighbors, forced to move when the neighbors start picketing outside the ex-offenders home, the list is endless.
I THINK THIS IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, BEYOND THE EXTREME!
Thanks you, this proves what I said...
http://thumbsnap.com/v/9L45tNdj.png
It was a MISTAKE, and I did not molest, rape or have sex with ANY child.
I say I offended, because I did, it was a mistake, which I am sorry for, and admit it was wrong, and I paid my debt (based on the contract), and my lawyer told me to plea, I was young and stupid. If I had to do it over, I would NEVER PLEA, period...
Linda I am a listener I guess you only want people who agree with you to be your audience?
I do not have to agree and not agreeing doesn't make me the bad guy.
Children and abused adults who are these people's victim s deserve to be heard and spoken for.
I am that voice for now. I deserve to be heard.
Violet,
I did break the cycle. I got help, forgave the person who did that do me, and moved on and became a survivor, unlike many other sexual abuse people.
Everyone is entitled to how they react to a situation, I chose to believe in God and forgive and forget, well, I will never forget, but I will NOT remain a victim my whole life, sorry.
You can either remain a victim forever, or move on, get help, like you and many others really need.
I don't think this is a place to attack each other.
I'd love to hear how you and Stitches would help eliminate the sexual abuse problems in this world, which have been around since day 1.
Oh no, it is far less than what you need. What you need is to not get off with a slap on the wrist and registration. Child molesters should get 25 years to life. I think you just can't be satisfied. Would you rather have 25 to life?
Draconian laws? I don't think you really believe that, you're just repeating garbage you have stored in your files to use for comments. Yeah, yeah, I've seen how you guys do that. See it's like this, if you think these laws are draconian just wait till you see what's next. You need to stop whining and admit that you got far less than what you deserved. THAT is the only thing that is going to let anyone see you in another light than what they do now.
Victims of child molesters do not care that your life isn't peachy keen and why should they? You don't care what you did to them! And you know very well that there are far far more victims of you guys than there are of you.
See, more lies and threats. I did not molest a child, get that through your thick skull.
No more comments from me, this is getting out of hand, like usual...
Peace & God Bless
Zman you aren't making sense. You have claimed it was the little girls fault for looking into your bedroom window and spying on you. And now you say you made a mistake that you offended against her.
STOP LYING. A little girl passing by did not look into your bedroom window........you get charged with child molestation..........you take a plea bargain and plead DOWN to child molestation. Surely even as a pathological liar you can see that your story doesn't fly.
What's interesting is that Equal Justice Cheryl Griffith says the same thing happened to her son and that's why he's listed as a violent sexual predator.
I am the Linda that was on the show. As I mentioned on the show, I a being attacked and harrassed by a vigilante group. Plese ignore these people. They are not worth our time. All they spew is hate and violence, no solutions. They have no lives. They follow me whereever I go. See what these laws are doing? They are making my point for me
The point of the broadcast was to point out that Megan's Law - community notification - does not work. The recidivism rate has not significantly decreased (actually in some cases it has increased) in the 12 years since the inception of Megan's Law. Its feel good legislation that has done nothing to prevent sexually based crimes. A study by Moore (2006) found that over 90% of those convicted of commiting sexual crimes against children and teens were first time offenders. So while we claim to be so concerned about protecting children, why are we not focusing more on stopping those first-time offenders from offending? The government is spending millions, if not billions of tax payer dollars on managing 600,000 offenders who pose little to no risk. I'd like to see that money spent on education, awareness campaigns, and early intervention designed to prevent those who are not RSO's from commiting a sex crimes. This is a difficult task - maybe that is why RSO's are such easy targets. It feeds the misperception that the politicians are doing everything they can to protect the children when in reality, they're doing nothing at all. If the government cared so much, then why have they continuously vetoed SCHIP?
Zman, you don't want to know how we would eliminate sexual abuse....."that has been around since day 1" That's just one of the arguments the blame gamers use. "You can't stop murder, you can't stop theft and you can't stop sexual abuse"
Now you see that argument doesn't sit well with people who have been abused or have a loved one who was murdered or who was robbed. Everyone knows that there will always be some evil sicko who comes along and hurts someone else. But you use this argument in a way that says to people "don't put us in prison, don't put us on a register because YOU CAN'T stop us!!!!!!!!"
Zman
No one is arguing here. We just do not agree with what your complaining about.
Being a survivor is more than living to be 50 yrs old.
On your description of a *victim*...you would offend a child in some way or another and you would end up on the SOR. Or... maybe you would be dead, a drug addict, a prostitute..destitute..destructive.
I don't fit that description Zman.
I have a voice and a will and a right to speak my mind about such matters and with this voice I will
speak. With my fingers I will type and I will say the truth and I will fight for Children's Right NOT to be abused and to be protected!
Your mission serves evil! You can complain all you want about these laws but the fact is that sex offenders need to be watched and supervised and controlled!
If you feel you have paid your debt to society and now want freedom from a Christina's POV... get that from Christ!
He is the only one that can truly set you free.
The chains may not be lifted nor the prison gates open, but in your heart and mind your a free man. Right?
After reading comments by Stitches77 & Violet Leaves, I'm a little frustrated. I was a victim of repeated sexual abuse when I was young by a family friend. I am now over 40 years old and it has been almost 20 years since I suffered because of the abuse. I've forgiven the man who abused me and understand the pain he felt for commiting his crime, which could have been worse than mine. Yah, I was a little mixed up as a kid but was that because of the abuse or bad parenting - who knows? What pains me is the direction these laws are going in - because they will not prevent another case like mine. THEY are a disgusting example of how the government works to manipulate the vote. Being on the registry, bound by residency restrictions, etc would not have prevented my abuser from touching me, not in a million years.
I don't know why Linda keeps claiming she's being attacked and harassed. We're doing the same thing she's doing which is speaking our minds.
And of course anyone is free to correct me if I'm mistaken but I searched this entire website over and no where do I see where it says that the only people who can leave comments are people "who got back into bed with ______ after he groomed and molested their daughter"
I have just as much right to say what I think about this issue as she does.
The Lopate Show responds: Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Please review our comments guidelines.
Victim & Supporter
If the person who molested you was caught before you... you bet it (the Laws) would had stopped him from molesting you or the victim after you.
And by chance if the Law is that ineffective then lets lock up sex offenders for life! Make them live it out as their victims do.
The above claim (I'll paraphrase) of a supposed survivor who claims they were sexually abused but forgive their abuser and understand the abusers pain was greater than the abuse they, as a victim, suffered and they can't be sure if their screwed up childhood was a result of sexual abuse or bad parenting...
This is typical pedo propaganda. These are the stories that abusers use to try to mitigate the effects of sexual abuse. See, ya all don't think that sexual abuse is harmful and if it is, you don't care. The suffering of the child is inconsequential to child molesters and they want you to think that children as young as infants and toddlers a) hit on adults and making sexual advances towards adults and are born with the want/need to be sexually exploited and molested b) enjoy the abuse c) are uneffected by the abuse d) want their abusers to be free with the minimum amount of consequences. Their M.O. is that the victim is the perpatrator and the child molester is the victim.
Problem with that theory is that is a lie of the criminally insane. How many people want the criminally insane to design the laws and punishments for their crimes against children? How on earth does that make a shred of sense??
Moderator, can you remove the other names they posted in their blogs as well?
You see what we have to live with? Constant harassment from people who don't help solve the problem, but make it worse.
Zman, there is no cure for pedophilia, remember that. The problem, as you put it, will be solved when pedophiles are kept away from children. Society has an obligation to protect the innocent. Child abusers and child molesters are far from innocent.
For those of you defending registries:
Do you argue that laws stop crime? If so, you're exactly the kind of voter the politicians love - mindless.
The DOJ's report shows the recidivism rate to be at 5.2% , far lower than any other category of crime with the exception of murder. (Murderers who are caught don't usually get an opportunity to repeat their crime.) If you disagree with this statistic, perhaps you should take that issue up with the DOJ.
Violet Leaves: you say that anyone who harms a child should be locked away forever, even after a single incident. Hopefully, you will never have to experience the pain of having a son locked away forever as a result of a false accusation. It's extremely easy for someone to spout such tripe when they have nothing currently at stake. Unfortunately, it is going to take just such an occurrence to make people like you wake up and realize the insanity of such knee-jerk reactions. History will judge you, just as McCarthy from his commie-persecuting days. He, too, thought his actions were well-intentioned.
I have no doubt that those of you who are most vociferous in your reactions think of yourselves as Christians. How VERY Christian of you! You are the ones who came to John the Baptist at the river, to whom he proclaimed "You nest of vipers!".
PLEASE STOP telling our precious children that they will never heal, never be whole again, and will suffer their entire life. That is just cruel. Just because YOU didnt, does not mean THEY won't. Take your hate and put it where it belongs (if you can't get over it). Put it on the person who abused YOU. You are destroying the lives of over one and a half MILLION people, a MILLION of whom are innocent of any crime, with your hate and hysteria and are left with laws that do NOTHING to protect your children.
To the confused sex offender supporter she's making a statement that the registry or restrictions would not have stopped her abusers in a million years. But how can she possibly say that? The chances are that the person did it before her and if this persons parents had known who they were and kept her away from them it very well could have prevented it. So what if it were her uncle, or cousin or step father or father for that matter....he should not have been around children.
This person making those outrageous statements is someone who supports 'not telling' if you are abused so that the abuser is enabled and continues to abuse.......usually children within their own family. MULTIPLE children.
And for the record Cheryl...I was not abused. But even if I had been it is idiotic to make the statement that I should "put hate where it belongs on the person who abused me" and not all the other GUILTY sex offenders whose victims have no one to stand up for them. I stand for childrens rights. They have a right to not be abused.
You should stop slamming victims and telling them they shouldn't say they are a victim because your sex offending predator son is a 'victim' of the justice system.
It does seem funny that the only people complaining about the registry are the people who are on the registry, and their families, who, of course, believe they're all innocent. Well, not funny, it actually makes sense. Because everyone in prison is innocent as well.
Basically, we will never know how many children the registry has saved. I live 3 doors down from a sex offender who raped children the ages of my children. Because I keep track of who lives in my neighborhood, I will never let my children go near that house. Even though there is a swing set, trampoline and a cute puppy there, even though no children live there.
Quite chilling, no?
Concrete Sailor
Our legal system is set up to convict guilty people not innocent.
To get locked away *forever* .. hrm well that would have to include some criminal evidence.
A *single incident* is one too many incidents for a sex offender.
Their victim doesn't get another chance at life.
The Lopate Show responds: Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Please review our comments guidelines.
Good show. Thanks for getting this info out there. These laws are not working and in some cases make things worse for all.
Not a popular subject to address either. But maybe little by little the public will hear the truth.
Equal Justice, what kind of equal justice is there if a child molester can offend without a solid measure put in place to prevent another victim? You violate children all over again -- by suggesting the molester is the victim. Nobody believes that, except people on the RSO registry and the real irony is, that the SO's and their families wouldn't be complaining so much if the SO registry didn't make their lives more difficult (and miserable). See, child molesters and rapists can't go back to their old way of life, the life you advocate for perhaps. That's what caused a child to suffer to begin with. Left to their own devices isn't safe for society.
Also, remember, survivors heal in spite the world of odds and suffering inflicted upon them that no human should ever have to experience. They survive in spite of it, not because of it. Got it???
Tracy G - correct me if I'm wrong but Sarah Toft does not have a family member who happens to be an RSO does she? And what about Jacob Wetterling's mother who now says the laws go too far. Her son was the victim. I'm not sure if she has an RSO in the family either. To Violet Leaves - how many people, including Genarlow Wilson, have been released from prison because years later they were found to be innocent? The legal system doesn't always work and does convict innocent people.
Many disagree with the laws. I don't think anybody supports child molestation - that is not what the arguments are about. Its about getting rid of laws that are ineffective at preventing sexually-based crimes. Its about protecting children which these laws do not do. You should be more concerned about the other guy down the street who has not yet been caught. More than 90% of offenses against a child are committed by someone not on the registry. What are YOU and the government doing to protect your children from them?
PS Genarlow Wilson wasn't found to be "innocent." You don't seem to understand the decision, do you?
Concerned
I am sure there are a few innocent people in prison.
I have no idea about the stats but I am positive that the guilty out weigh the not guilty.
We have the Laws to protect our children and they do work and they do protect children.
Sex crimes happen because the offender perpetrates a crime.
Once a crime is committed the offender should in sexual cases pay with his life in prison or the death penalty.
Freedom to roam the streets afterwards and to have a family and *start all over* should not be considered.
Yes life changes afterwards for all criminals.
That is why before you offend you should seek therapy and admit your desires! If you cross the line and offend or download child porn, your time on the RSO should be as life in prison. A never ending struggle.
I believe the punishment should fit the crime and destroying a child's life or catering to it must be looked at like a murder because it is a murder.
I also wonder why the concreete sailor would complain that there is "no doubt Anti's are Christians"
I find that to be the strangest comment here. Is that a bigot speaking? Is that bias speaking? Do you understand that people wanting their children protected from those who use them for selfish sexual kicks crosses all lines. Religion isn't the issue, political affiliation isn't the issue, race certainly isn't the issue. The issue is about good and evil. You might can cure a mentally disturbed individual, but you can't cure evil. There is no cure for dumbass either.
"Its about protecting children which these laws do not do"
No. All it's about, to people like Linda and her husband, is about stopping people from finding out what he did to Lindas daughter.
"PLEASE STOP telling our precious children that they will never heal, never be whole again, and will suffer their entire life."
It's interesting that you're saying the exact same things that pedophile activists say "It's all societies fault..." NO, Cheryl it's all the abusers fault, they're the only ones who're responsible.
Sexual abuse can effect people for the rest of their lives, trying to invalidate victims feelings of being used and abused is completely insensitive, but so typical of someone who makes excuses for sexual abusers.
Wow... what did I walk into here?
Anyway. I just wanted to say, I think there is one issue with these laws that isn't really being brought up. Every time Sex Offender laws are brought up, there is a ton of emotional arguments over what the victim went through. And when it comes to child molesters and rapists, I can't disagree with this.
I'm sure when the Sex Offender laws first came to be, they only included such people who deserved it, but not anymore. I know a guy who is a registered offender now, because he met a girl at a college party who threw herself at him practically. They did the deed, and she turned out to be underage. There are cases like the whole business with that kid in Georgia, and I've even heard of people who accidentally sell a porno mag to someone underage have to register in some states.
I donno what percentage of registered offenders fit into this category, but any is too much. Especially when new laws are designed to punish child molesters for the pain that they cause, and those punishments trickle down to people who didn't do anything nearly that bad. Sure, I hear some prudes say that the minor offenders still broke the law, but do they really deserve to be treated like pedophiles?
I'm just saying, yea, make child molesters and rapists pay dearly for what they did. But make sure it only applies to them.
Peace!
Violet Leaves - the laws making sexual assault a crime are good laws. Megan's Law - community notification, residency restrictions do more harm than good. This is what the fight is about. Sexual abuse against anyone is wrong and people who commit such crimes should be punished. But the research shows that Megan's Law does nothing to prevent new sexual crimes from occuring. The recidivsm rate has not changed since the establishment of these laws. It only shames and blames and that wasn't the original intent of the law (which was to reduce recidivsm - which it hasn't).
Concerned
Did you *just now* figure out what this fight is about?
I really hate repeating myself, read my posts again.
Zman and the others....why do you defend yourself to a group of cyber thugs who lie and spread lies because their own pathectic lives are such a mess? Why waste your steam arguing with people who have the attitude that it is their way or no way?
"Concerned" Stop lying, we've been all through your groups for months now and you're all a bunch of broken record; What it comes down to is that you don't want people to find out what these people have done in their past.
Anyone which has a sexual attraction to children and has acted on that attraction before, is a threat to every child which that person comes into contact with and people have a right to know this before they let them into their house/school or anywhere near their children.
"Black Widow" says:
"why do you defend yourself to a group of cyber thugs who lie and spread lies because their own pathectic lives are such a mess?"
Why do people like you make excuses for people who abuse kids? You work to enable sexual abusers, because you don't want someone to take responsibility for their own actions.
I wonder why they keep going to their file section to pull out quotes to use. Like "these laws do more harm than good. And research shows...." When the research doesn't show that at all.
Example the Minnesota recidivism report that they are all linking to that shows a recent a decrease in recidivism. They didn't read the entire report obviously. They should read the CONCLUSION in which they state clearly that they don't know if the decrease was due to the increased restrictions, GPS monitoring, or community notification among other things. In other words.......the very things they are saying don't work may very well work. but they won't tell you that part.
The fact of the matter is that blame gamers WANT to say "hey I'm not dangerous it's not me it's you that's the problem" So they twist and turn and spin spin spin. But nobody is buying it. Well except for someone ELSE who needs a rationalization for what they did and an excuse for a get out of jail free card.
I notice Sarah Tofte mentions that each year 13% of new sex offenses are committed by people who have committed previous sexual offense. Sex offenders make up roughly .2% of the U.S population, but are accounting for 13% of all new sex offenses, per year.
Good segment, Leonard. Seems I walked into a war zone though. Is it just me or does it look like there is a group of Sex Offender advocates that jump on these kind of pages, and then a group of anti-offender advocates who come running in to counter them? No matter, good points on both sides hidden amongst all the personal bickering that I'd rather not know the history of.
I do agree a lot of the offender appear to only want a change in the laws in their favor, with no real input as to what would be better ways to avoid child abuse.
But I can't ignore that the whole sex offender system feels like government encouraged mod justice. We go on the record claiming we just want to monitor and warn people about them, but off the record we cheer when one gets murdered or abused or forced to live under a bridge. We look the other way and smile because "they had it coming!". On a purely mob mentality level, this might be acceptable, but I feel it highly disturbing that we're fine with what's essentially a work around to the law. And if we're fine with it for the worst of the worst, would we also accept it for some other group next?
The point was raised of teenagers and young adults being pulled into this for non predatory acts, and that too makes the above situation worse, I feel. That and the children of offenders being effected by it is also a concern.
Also, I would like to hear more about treatment attempts with sex offenders. I have heard the common claim that they can't be cured, but I have also read a story about a treatment program at one prison that appeared to lower rearrest rates. A true pedophile might not be curable, but what about people who offend because of other psychological issues, like an underdeveloped sense of age-appropriate relationships? If there are treatment options that have some success, even a small percentage, then why aren't we developing a program to help people with those desires seek help before they offend? Why not run TV ads like the depression awareness ones urging people to seek help?
This issue isn't as simple as some think. And honestly, I think some calm, thought out dialog, even between the waring groups here, is needed.
With all the arguments here, the focus has been lost. The registries slowly but surely have been found to be unconstitutional in one form or another. They have been abused by the very same who swore to uphold the "laws of the land" and the "Constitution" Instead, these registries are a sure step to re-election or a higher office within the judicial system. From the original intent, Megan's Law, has been lost in the haze of feel-good, knee-jerk legislation to such a point, those who are to enforce these laws do not know what they are to enforce and do not have the funds or man power to do so if they did.
Subsequent laws, The Wetterling Act, was to insure all states have a sex offender registry though Jacob Wetterling has never been found nor is there any evidence of a sexual crime. The AWA, Adam Walsh Act, where Adam has never been found except his head, focused on sexual predators with no evidence of any sexual crime.
Registries, residency restrictions, zoning ordinances, being forced to move again an again, loss of employment, forced to live away from the family, many times in a car, has not stopped any sexual crime. For any of the advocates who believe RSO's should never have a life, need to learn without the unbridled hate they so freely pass along, just what has happened to every single family these laws focus on, both the victim and the offender. True there are those who deserve the harshest penalty provided by law, but that is one person, not every single person on the registries. To give guidance and counseling to those who have committed a sex crime and seek help, not to be thrown to the wolves for being honest as what is done in todays society.
Jacey said:
"Why do people like you make excuses for people who abuse kids? You work to enable sexual abusers, because you don't want someone to take responsibility for their own actions."
People such as myself do not work to enable those who have ACTUALLY molested kids. People such as myself work to help others fight those who are self-righteous, arrogant, and harassing and help them deal with cyber terrorists such as your group.
What is sad is that you help victims stay victims. Locked in a cage to forever live as a victim.
Well after reading some of these comments I find it funny how little most of you know about what now days makes you a sex offender. A few of the recent cases I have come across are as follows. A 13 year girl gets pregnant by 12 year old boyfriend. She is now a RSO. A teenage girl moons the opposing schools team bus, she is now a RSO. A guy urinating in an alley, he is now a RSO. A 16 year old guy who impregnated is 14 year old girlfriend, who by the way later married and 2 more children with is a RSO. A 14 year old boy who took playboy magazine to school is now a RSO. Are you people getting the picture yet, I wonder how many of your parents or grandparents would be RSO's under todays standards. Oh and by the way, I am not an RSO, just someone who has alittle common sense.
Society must stop the hate. We see more of it everyday in the media or by those elected to govern us. The fact that the majority of "sex offender laws" do nothing short than forget who they are protecting, do more harm to the innocent, subject millions to hate and harassment or worse, gives an idea just how wrong these laws are. If they are to protect "the innocents, the children", why have the innocents and children of RSO's been forgotten? Does this fit into the scheme of how the registries and restictions are to work?
More needs to be done, a meeting of the minds of those concerned, to ever get a fair and just system for both the victims and those who offend. Otherwise, push to far, to much, and fear the results of being cornered with no place or hope left.
That is absolutely right, Bill. And it is sad that those such as Stitches77 and Violet Leaves actually think those examples are sex offenders and deserve jail time.
But then again Violet Leaves also said:
"“Sex Offenders”/Pedophiles have the highest rate of recidivisim in the nation. This lie is often spouted out of the lieing mouths of the likes of many in the news media, especially the GREAT SATAN-John Walsh. Look Johnny Boy… I’m sorry that your son got kidnapped and killed (just where were you when it came to protecting your son you _________), but the FACTS are that “Sex Offenders”/Pedophiles have the second lowest rate of recidivism, under 6% after 5 years of release. This is a constant FEDERAL Statistic! Not pulled out of my ___ like your numbers come from. Get off your high horse and start to tell the truth. But then your ratings would suffer, and the general panic you cause, and the hate that you perpetuate would no longer have any fuel. Sean Hannity is another flaming lieing SOB in this regard.
You guys are more concerned about your damn ratings than about telling the whole truth."
http://violetleaves.wordpress.com/2007/01/31/a-newly-released-sex-offender/
Now that shows you the mental state these type of people live in. It also shows how desperately we need services to help them.
The Lopate Show responds: Personal attacks and expletives will not be tolerated. Please read the Comments Guidelines.
"The registries slowly but surely have been found to be unconstitutional in one form or another."
People who are criminals in prison don't have any constitutional rights, only human rights; As for the constitutional rights of people who abuse kids, they should count themselves lucky they've been let back into society at all.
"To give guidance and counseling to those who have committed a sex crime and seek help,"
It's like you don't even consider justice; There's no justice if people who abuse kids are given a day in counseling and are set free again, sexual abuse victims have to live with what happened to them for the rest of their lives; Child molesters should have to pay more so.
Oh Michael Michael Michael. The only focus that has been lost is not constitutionality it is this.....Children deserve to not be abused. People who offend against children are not sympathetic victimized creatures.
Children are the innocent.
Children are our concern.
Children are the focus.
Children, Michael.
Children.
That includes daughters.
Both of them.
More laws are never going to help. Education and services will.
I want to give some clarification to the statistic that Sarah gave on 87% of sex crimes being committed by someone not previously convicted of a sex crime. The population under study were actually those released from prison in 1994. 87% of sex crimes committed by these former prisoners were committed by someone not previously convicted of a sex crime. Figures for the general population would be much higher. The vast majority of sex crimes are committed by someone not on a sex offender registry. This study may be downloaded from http://theparson.net/so/DOJ_Report_on_Sex_Offender_Recidivism.pdf
Forgive me if I don't give a damn about a sex offender's rights. What about my children's rights? What about mine?
As a parent I have a legal and moral obligation to protect my children's emotional and physical well-being....I have the right to know if Z is moving next door to me for God's sake. Yes, I absolutely believe my rights as a law-abiding, tax-paying parent trump your rights as a *sex offender*.
As far as "all antis being Christian", this is hilarious. There was an infamous sex offender who recently claimed that "all antis are Pagans" LMAO. Hey Linda, wasn't that one of your pals? Bigotry is an ugly thing and certainly not a point of view I would think a *sex offender* could afford to adopt.
I am agnostic.
Uh DavidH, you might want to read through this sentence and amend LOL!
"87% of sex crimes committed by these former prisoners were committed by someone not previously convicted of a sex crime."
"People such as myself do not work to enable those who have ACTUALLY molested kids."
Which is why you work with groups which want to do away with sex offender laws. What next you'll be signing up to BoyChat and GirlChat, claiming that people blogging against them is "harassment" and "cyber terrorism?" Take some responsibility!
"What is sad is that you help victims stay victims. Locked in a cage to forever live as a victim."
No, what is sad is that you're so disconnected from how sexual abuse victims feel that you fail to see that the only person who locks a victim up in a cage is the abuser. How can anyone forget what that their first sexual experience was being molested by a pervert, or the betrayal and exploitation they feel when a family member sexually abuses them and then bullies them into silence?
All you illustrate is how little you understand sexual violence and how much you empathize with the abusers.
LOL.
I see all thes RSO's and their family and friends sticking up for the girls that are on RSO for mooning their classmates. How sensitive the child abusers are, eh? (How many of those are actually on there?)
MORE IMPORTANTLY, that doesn't make it a failed/flawed system. It doesn't negate a child molesters proper place on the RSO. And truth be told, if our society has to place pranksters on the RSO, isn't that the fault of the child molesters to begin with? We wouldn't even have to have this registry if there weren't predators trying to rape our children to begin with.
Child molesters need to be on the RSO. The RSO's and their family/friends act as if you are only advocating for the high schooler prankster who mooned his friends, but that's not the truth at all. That's a smoke-screen for the real motive, to eliminate the registryfor every sex offender because it makes criminal, sexual offenses more difficult and puts your life under a microscope...probably should have thought of that before you went out and molested a child or children, huh?
Boo hoo.
Our children aren't sacrificial lambs. Child molesters have created the political climate and the need for stricter laws to protect our children because it's obvious, they will stop at nothing to hurt our children.
Black Widow said:
"Look Johnny Boy… I’m sorry that your son got kidnapped and killed (just where were you when it came to protecting your son you ______),"
So typical, blaming and attacking the parents of sexual abuse victims, blaming everyone aside from the person who committed the abuse. Stop making excuses Black Widow!!
"Who do you direct this to? Anyone we know? Makes it kinda hard when you throw out a generic common name..... huh?"
No Michael, you know exactly who we're talking about and that's all that matters.
Jacey.... Be so kind as to let everyone know. Or do you intend to keep secret since you cannot answer it?
Jacey said:
"So typical, blaming and attacking the parents of sexual abuse victims, blaming everyone aside from the person who committed the abuse. Stop making excuses Black Widow!!"
EXCUSE me? That quote was taken directly off Violet Leaves blog. Does she also believe this BS? Quoting hogwas like that on blogs only hurts your cause.
I dont blame victims for anything but REMAINING a victim.
So I decided to check back and see if a worthwhile discussion might have started, I guess not. The segment was on the effectiveness of sex offender laws, and their effect on non-offending family members and dumb kids who run afoul with the laws but aren't really predators. But apparently the discussion can't move past establishing how bad child sexual abuse is (something I figured would be a given.)
So I'm gathering that there's a group of sex offenders, and a group of people who're sworn to fight said group of sex offenders. And the two of them go around to internet forums staging "arguments" for the world to see. And by argument, I mean a bunch of copy/pasted facts and numbers mixed with a bunch of name calling. Am I about right? Is this really all you guys do all day? Judging from time/date tags you've been at it for 9 hours at least. I mean I know this is a very serious issue that needs to be studied and addressed, but are either of you guys really accomplishing anything with this?
Ah well, you kids have fun, lemmie know who wins.
How little you know about me, Jacey
But the bottom line is that new laws will not stop this vicious cycle. Only education will.
And education does not include harassing SO's, their families or anyone else assocciated with them.
"I dont blame victims for anything but REMAINING a victim."
Black Widow, when are you going to learn that no one chose to be a victim, people can't just forget a traumatic experience or years of sexual abuse that happened to them, overnight. Who are you to tell people how they should feel about sexual abuse or blame them for "remaining" a victim?
Yeah Reverend Hess pulled that quote out of the "I like to look at naked babies being abused and not have to pay the consequences" file located 2 doors down on the next hall to the left. Known as the Hall of Shame for Blame Gamers. Otherwise known as "Sosen's comments for future use file."
He messed up the sentence Chester because he doesn't understand what it is he's saying. He got several different things confused with the fake statistic eadvocate has been spreading around. In other words he's trying to claim a conviction rate can be determined by subtracting a recidivism rate from an arbitrary number. That's like trying to decide how many bananas you have by subtracting your oranges from your apples. And of course he's forgetting that those originally convicted sex criminals he's referring to were not all first time offenders themselves.
Oh and let's go back to rates again for a moment. Sex offenders rates over a THREE year period were low, there's many reasons for that but it's also proven that rates start to rise after 5 to 10 years out of prison. More and more as restrictions are lightened for example. But as far as being criminals in general sex offenders DO INDEED have THE highest rates of recidivism when measuring all crimes.
And you Kiokwussy know what your name is.
Simon... you make a very good point. It is not about which group can out insult the other, or who is in the wrong, it is about those affected by the SO laws. Far too many innocents are affected by the actions of another. There is no quick an easy solution to this problem, education for both sides is the key to understanding and finding away to end these crimes. There can never be a hundred percent end to this or any other subject, but there can be a drastic reduction.
For those who have committed a sex offense, but have not been "found out", but seek help, need to be able to get that help without fear of arrest. This also goes for the victim. They do not need to be badgered to the point that they feel as though they are the criminals. Compassion and education is paramount, as a first step to ending sexual crimes.
Black Widow said:
"How little you know about me, Jacey"
I know that you don't like people knowing who rapists, child molesters and sexual abusers are and that you think that people who were abused so badly that they struggle to deal with the abuse they suffered as children are "choosing to remain victims." I know that you've got problems empathizing with people who were sexually abused.
wow What a thoughtful insightful program. Thank You Leonard for an open and honest dialog about a sociatal problem. I see by your comments section that Linda was not kidding about being harrassed by vigilantes. I am almost afraid to leave a comment.
I am a mom of 2 children. One of my children sexual abused the other. My family has been through hell and back to get through this. My one child was removed from the home for a while but is now back with us after therapy for all of us. My son is now labled a sex offender. My daughter(victim)LOVES her brother and wants him in her life. My daughter is now being harrassed and taunted at school because of this. The registry has made an already horrible situation a million times worse. Will our nightmare ever end?
This thread is closed.
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