On Demand
India After Gandhi
Monday, September 24, 2007
Sixty years have passed since India became an independent nation. Ramachandra Guha explains how and why a country with such great political, ethnic, religious, and economic divisions has managed not only to survive, but to thrive.
Purchase India After Gandhi: The History of the World's Largest Democracy at amazon.com.
Weigh in: Is India poised to become a global superpower?
What brings such a diverse population together in India?
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What bring such a diverse population together in India?
I think Torture and repressive policies and draconian laws like POTA and TADA brought India together. Since India got independence thousands of people who belong to minorities have been tortured and killed in false encounters. There is a book named REDUCED TO ASHES published by South Asian forum for Human Rights documents 800 cases of enforced disappearances and killings of innocent civilians in only three districs of Punjab
I am posting my comments , regarding to your upcoming show about 60 years of Indian democracy. My concern is human rights. India is world largest democracy with one of worst record on human rights. I am attaching two links so you can see the brutality and torture of police on its civilians. These are pictures of persons whose bodies were given to their relatives. Others whose corps is burned and thrown in rivers, we do not know how they were tortured?
1. (in this pic you can see person’s was burned with hot iron and his arm has signs of electric shocks) http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sikhlionz.com/Shatrana.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sikhlionz.com/martyrbhairavindersinghbabbar.htm&h=222&w=192&sz=9&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=WloACctox99V5M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpunjab%2Bpolice%2Btorture%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den
2 person burned with acid in police station http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040418/ldh5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040418/ldh.htm&h=271&w=200&sz=16&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=be8-Dm22M_YOoM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=83&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpunjab%2Bpolice%2Btorture%2Bin%2Bpunjab%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den
3. one person was boiled in water I could not find his pic online. It used to be on internet.
India’s constitution is based on discrimination. Sikhism is a different religion but since India’s constitution is has been ratified after freedom they are considered Hindus. (Article 25 of Indian constitution) Sikh has been demanding an amendment for last 57 years but Indian politicians are mute spectators. I am writing 57 years because Indian constitution is ratified on Janurary 26 1950.
INDIA IS RULED BY GOONS
India is a failed democracy,hundred of Indian MP are criminal according to Social watch
Young lawmakers are more prone to breaking laws. Mind you, 30.4 per cent of MPs between 36 and 45 years, who have been elected to the 14 th Lok Sabha are facing criminal cases in different parts of the country. And 18.3 per cent of them are facing grave charges.
Their elders, aged between 55 and 65 years, have lesser criminal cases against them-19.3 per cent. Before the polls, the coalition had looked into the antecedents of 3182 candidates cutting across the party line' and found that 16.28 per cent had criminal records.
Indeed, in chorus with previous comments, I would like to add that much of what we see in the media in this country is deliberate "globalization" propaganda depicting happy, gainfully employed Indian employees.
Rather, the outsourcing of American jobs to India has created a small coterie of "middle class" young people who emulate American consumer-capitalists (and consequently are the most effected by the AIDS epidemic there), whilst the rest of the population continues to live in filth, pollution, and decaying infrastructure.
There was an upper class and a middle class in India long before outsourcing. It's just that Americans were ignorant about India until outsourcing brought their economy to our attention.
I'm aware there was an upper class and middle class before outsourcing: its called the caste system.
I am quite amazed at and saddened by the vitriolic outpourings in the comments above. India is a very complex country and it has a lot of both good and bad things going for it.
It is a relatively young democracy and therefore has its share of problems. Definitely it has a long way to go in terms of its infrastructure catching up with the main stream population's requirements and justified expectations. There are also deep rooted ethnic divides waiting to surface and people who are more than willing to exploit these divisions.
At the same time, it has been making improvements in several key areas like its economy, telecommunications, software, automotive and construction industries. Yes, it can and must do a lot more in other areas - especially addressing the needs of rural people and a large part of the population that are at or below the poverty line. But the same could be said about the US as well. One can point to any number of articles on the New York Times and other papers/journals/magazines that paint a rather bleak picture of the poor in the US. It is just that the absolute numbers are much higher due to the large population of India.
I couldn't resist not commenting on the perception that India is somehow "stealing" jobs from the American public. Within this context, the feeling of animosity towards India and the same lack of animosity towards China (which "takes away" many more jobs and has artificial economic instruments to keep it that way) is puzzling.
I'm not arguing Indians and Chinese are taking American jobs-- MNCs and American firms are moving those jobs overseas so they can pay employees less. I blame the American companies, not the Chinese and Indian citizens.
Until there is a real democratic labor movement in India and China, globalization will continue.
"Making improvements in several key areas like it economy, telecommunications, software, automotive and construction industries"-- you're not talking about democracy, you're talking about free market capitalism and foreign investment.
There's a difference.
"Growing difference between rich and poor is creating strains on Indian democracy"...
you think?
I agree that the Indian political system has a long way to go. But to argue that India is not a democracy and to equate its political system with that of China's (which I think is what you are doing, I may be incorrect) is not accurate. They are significantly different to say the least.
No I agree with you Prasanna. India has made much BIGGER strides toward democracy than China. I am just dissenting as I've discussed the state of India and its depiction in our media at length with my brother, who is a pre-med student and spent the summer there in Chennia in an AIDS education program. I felt what he had to report differed greatly from what we hear about business magazines and so on, that only seem to discuss economic development, not actual democratic reform.
*Chennai sorry
There is a unwillingness to live by a rule of law.
In any culture having all the laws are not enough if the society is unwilling to live by the rule of law.
In India a great majority of people ( Northern India) are unwilling to live by any rules and thuggery thrives.
Trevor,
When you say, 'Rather, the outsourcing of American jobs to India has created a small coterie of "middle class"' - it gave the impression that you weren't aware of the existence of a middle class prior to outsourcing.
Also, their current economic boom is not entirely due to foreign investment, and certainly free market capitalism has caused a good deal of harm. (Enron, IMF agricultural policies, etc.)
Your comments, which come across as inexplicably hostile, make it seem like you think that India was nothing until the good old white folks threw them a penny. Have you ever spent time there? What's your angle? Just curious.
whoindatgarden,
I'm unclear... are you trying to say that there is an unwillingness to live by the rule of law?
If one was to complain about injustice being suffered in a country then we can criticize every single country on earth of being discriminatory against some people. No one has clean hands..So to go about complaining without recognizing the prejudice is part of the human psyche is utterly naive. India is a complex country, a poor country that is finally coming into its own. Yes, we have problems, big problems but strides are being made. Perhaps, the person who so abhors India would be so kind as to advise the terrorists and others who kill innocent people for no good reason at all to follow the rule of law. It is easier to point fingers instead of trying to fix things...
Well Said Mr. Kunwar Singh!
At the risk of sounding self pity-ridden and self-congratulatory may I add, that 60 years ago, India was left on the side-walks of humanity, like an abandoned child – nay, a rape victim -- with no hope of surviving the day; by centuries of colonialist arrogance and self aggrandizing; stripped of its wealth, resources, pride, and dignity – save for what Mahatma Gandhi managed to salvage by his peaceful, empowering campaign? Today that same India has astonished its citizens, well-wishers and detractors alike, by rising out of this plight to a proud but modest, strong but restrained, prospering -- albeit with ways to go – position amongst its peers, partners and adversaries. India today has much on its plate that it needs to do, but let it never be underestimated again!
Outsourcing issue is a decade old and India is 5000 years old for any lame comments.
In comments above about of democratic reform in India, I dont understand. What are we talking about. May be democratic reform in USA after the dismal election and the way minorities were prevented from voting.
As for Ajits comments, POTA is recent due to the terrorist acts on Indian parliment and other locations. One does not get security without laws. Its painful, but thats what gives security. I dont think is worse as its in some western nations.
I heard Lenords radio program and Mr. Ghuhas response.
The only thing I need to point out to Mr. Lopate is : Please shelve off the old western Max Muller theory of Europeans coming to India and the Aryans created or responsible for the Vedic knowlededge structure and current Indian civilization.
Thats not true as its been refuted with evidence among the many Indian scholars. Westerns wrote history and twisted facts to their convenience to demonstrate they were superior. Please end it.
I empathize with those who have made adverse comments based, hopefully, on their own experiences. But looking at the India of today I cannot but marvel at her great achievements which are all the more impressive considering corruption of the political system, the poverty, lack of education for a considerable part of the population and the entrenched beaureaucracy etc.
There is no question that India now speaks with one voice more than ever before because children are now taught Hindi as the national language, while at the same time encouraging people to learn their own regional language, and English acoording to personal preferences. I believe i know because I have been around since before India's independence. The other equally important factors are Faith in most Indian households, the beginnings of consumer activism trying to hold the feet of the corrupt politicians and rampant beareaucracy to the fire.
I strongly believe that India has the people , the infrastructure and the power to thrive.
Let us all wish her well.
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