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The art of politics is beautiful!
Thank you Mr Lopate and Mr Schneer!

Here can never be a “Palestinian State” only the super sanctimonious can think so . . .can you envision a state determined to destroy the state of Israel importing legally Zyclon B gas from Germany /Austria . . .Sorry No
Israel must be totally Jewish, the only way for the state to progress, The Arabs Muslims must leave Israel for the Israelis, Yes its more human to separate the two, the Muslims have to be absorbed into the other British designated states Syria Lebanon, Jordan and others. . . . . Perhaps Nietzsche was right the yoke around the human neck is the religion of Pity, and the religion of guilt. . . . there are many religions, none with spiritually . . .Ask yourself who is right.

To Linda from Cosmos

I have a deal for you, and I am the child of Holocaust survivors and was born in a German refugee camp. We Jews keep east Jerusalem, and the Palestinians can take all the Holocaust museums for themselves to keep. They've outlived their usefulness. THey can be turned into Naqba memorials instead.

Dealing with a stiff-necked people? Dealing with an inflexible Muslim people who refuse to accept that Israel is Jewish land. Israel will not give a part of Jerusalem to become the capital of a new 22nd Arab enemy state. If that is "stiff necked," so be it. I call it drawing the line.

The British made conflicting promises they could not keep. Then it became the UN's problem, and later USA's problem and still is. Now, the EU is trying to deal with a stiff-necked people.

Dear Everyone. If you want to be truthful, why don't you let your common humanity rule your hearts instead of your identification to a particular ethinicity or group. It is wrong and shameful to justify to yourselves and others inhumane brutality and harm upon a people just because you can and because this has been going on since the beginning of time.

It is always right to speak out when we see wrong and harm done to other humans even if we are not of their race/religion or group.

As is right, the Jewish people never let us forget about the Holocaust. There are various world wide rememberences and monuments, etc. as there should be. However, most of them do not allow us to call any attention to the cruelty and unjustness they perpetrate or to express any sentiment or call attention to the plight of the Palestinians in any way, shape or form. We are called anti-semites right away to close down conversations and end up being strong armed, among other extreme measures, into taking weaker positions. My goodness, if you want peace and tranquility for your people, how do you expect to get it when you take it away from the same people you want it from. When you stop demonizing the other and truthfully look at your own ways then you might see why others see you the same way as well.

People ought to learn the stories of those earliest "pioneers" and their desparate struggles in that hard, waterless, impoverished land! The suicides of those who could not hang on. Those who lived in caves. Those who struggled day in and day, night and day, against every imaginable adversity to eke out the beginnings of what EVENTUALLY would become the JEwish state. It wasn't built on money.They didn't do it to find gold or silver or oil. They were Jewish frontier families, fighting all the odds and elements, and occasional raiders as well. They became hardened as their soft talmudic hands were burned and bruised and made tough by the unforgiving heat and endless rocks and all. From 1882 to 1918 they had built the first Jewish city Tel Aviv and other towns and outposts. The Jewish state did not come about by plots and tricks or overnight miracles. It came mainly by blood, sweat and tears, yet little of this is ever discussed or even known. That bothers me.

jgarbuz,

I think you idealize it too much. Yes, the Zionist movement -- the national liberation movement of Jewish nation -- is unprecedented in the history of the world, as it brought the dispersed nation from all corners of the world into the land of its ancestors.

BUT, the struggle was conducted by regular people, with all the mistakes and errors, debates and decisions, diplomacy and armed resistance. And I can't fault the guest for digging into the specific history of each step that took place. I did not hear any suggestion of a sinister plot.

And, yes, if Jews did not succeed at establishing their own country, the area would be occupied by yet another Arab state. This is the reality and there is not need to apologize for it.

For sanych my point is these people cannot live together so you must separate the Arab, from the Jew, the evil here is religion, and it used to divide. By separating the people. there is no controversy over who is owner of the land in my mind.
My point about the Germany and the Germans and Austrians. . .Israel must establish a single nation! “The means does justify the end” to close the conflict . . . a method show clearly in history by Germany and Austria, the adjoining Arab states must absorb any excesses. . .then there is no more argument, but as long as the west continues to rely on OIL, then Capitalism is very comfortable to play’s one against the other without a resolution. A firm guarantee that once the reliance on oil vaporizes it will be “Palestinian Who” perhaps it is
Time for Israel to make a single nation.

To sanych

I do not cut him any "slack" because he is subliminally reinforces the notion that the Zionist movement - to me the greatest Jewish liberation movement since the fabled Exodus story - was nothing but another sneaky Jewish plot to dispossess a poor and defenseless people from their land.This is a mockery and a travesty, but increasingly gained acceptance by a majority of people,clueless as to the real history of this glorious liberation movement. There was no plot. There was nothing done that was underhanded or illegal, except by the British later on. The history of the Zionist movement is amazing and I wish someone would write an true and honest history of it. But I doubt National Palestinian Radio would be interested in anything like that. ANd such a book would not get a very wide audience, unfortunately for various reasons that should be self-evident.

michael from Manhattan,

You got it totally wrong. It is Jews that are the indigenous people in the area.

Just imagine if Cherokees returned to Georgia, or Lenape to your apartment in Manhattan.

Jews retained their identity through two thousand years of exhile and managed to return to their homeland to establish their state. The jury is still out for Native Americans.

To Michael from Manhattan.

First off, Ghandi was assassinated by a Sikh, and he was upset by the decision of the Muslims to separate into a separate Muslim state called Pakistan.
Anyhoo, the history of the world up to WWI was very simple. If you conquered it, you owned it! One empire swallowed up the other, and the Brits probably would have had no qualms in simply incorporating the entire defunct Ottoman empire into the British empire were it not for an American president called Woodrow Wilson, with his funny ideas about a "league of nations" and "self-determination" and all of that rot!
Be it as it may, 11 Arab states were eventually created out of the dismembered Sultanate, and one sliver of land was restored to the Jews by the League. And, the US, though it never joined (thanks to the Republicans) did nonetheless sign off on the Mandate and accepted the principle of Palestine being restored as the "Jewish National Home."

jgarbuz,

1. Maybe you should write a book. But don't expect that Leonard would invite you. :-)

2. You are not commenting on Jonathan Schneer's book, but rather on what he said on the show. I could literally hear him being stunned by some of the questions from Lopate - and not by their clarity, depth or accuracy. He was clearly at a loss at where to start answering them quite a few times. So, cut him a little slack, would you. I don't think it was so terrible.

Amazing how few of you got it right however jgarbuz from Queens did there never ever existed a country called JORDAN, nor SYRIA, IRAN IRAQ,. All British inventions there always was Egypt
Really as there is so much controversy over boundaries perhaps you should look at the British dividing up India, making Pakistan, and to create a living hell, installing a Muslim king on the throne in a country of Hindus! A well known British strategy called “divide and conquer” . I do wish you people would read history!
I think the Americas got rid of the indigenous Indians so the Israeli’s should learn from the technology of the past i.e. Germans / Austrians, over night make all arabs wear the symbol on their arms, the Star & Moon and design special facilities for them to take care of their needs, just like those wonderful folks 'the Germans' Obviously if you cant live together.
Or if this offends you let them all inter- marry and have no religion. A Mahatma Gandhi approach.

To sanych

I could literally write a whole book just about what the guest left out. For example, he left out the agreement between Emir Feisal and Chaim Weizmann at the Paris Peace Conference on Jan. 3, 1919 accepting the "Zionist programme," but this major pact was not mentioned. No mention of the most important fact of all, the decision of the Council of the League of Nations approving and incorporating the Balfour Declaration, thereby making it international law, and not simply a British foreign policy statement. I could go on and write a whole book on what this man left out, and how he skewed the perception that it was all a sneaky Jewish plot to steal the country.Basically, it was worse than a lie. It was skewered half-truths, and a flatout lie ismuch easier to deal with.

@pete from upper west side

"Islam was manufactured..." are you surprised, History does not have "cultural sensitivity." unless you want to twist it.

jgarbuz, you are splitting hair. The guest's comments were very measured and accurate. Maybe not as precise as you would want them, but close enough.

DAT from Nathan Straus Projects typically misquotes Moshe Dayan. The real quote (source http://www.camera.org):

"We came to a region of land that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a Jewish state. In a considerable number of places, we purchased the land from Arabs and set up Jewish villages where there had once been Arab villages. You don't even know the names [of the previous Arab villages] and I don't blame you, because those geography books aren't around anymore. Not only the books, the villages aren't around. Nahalal was established in the place of Mahalul, and Gvat was established in the place of Jibta, Sarid in the place of Huneifis and Kfar Yehoshua in the place of Tel Shaman. There isn't any place that was established in an area where there had not at one time been an Arab settlement."

In the misquote, the key phrase "we purchased the land from Arabs" is omitted.

@ jgarbuz from Queens - You are free to do and believe whatever you like, just a couple questions:

Since you have declared that "NPR" (generically) as "anti-Zionist or at least pro-Palestinian in flavor" and that you will never donate, why would listen so frequently and participate so much on the comment pages?

Is it to listen to the enemy or something?

Your guest is a prevaricator. He tells half truths at best. There WAS NO WALAYET (governate) called Filistin or "Palestine" in the Ottoman empire! Period. Just as there was no "New England" when the native "indian" nations ruled here. It simply was not even considered a single entity by the Ottomans.
And, it was NOT the British who created the Mandate. More nonsense. It was the LEAGUE OF NATIONS THAT CREATED the MANDATE and appointed Britain to manage it!

Amy, you don't know what you are talking about. Please read the comment from jgarbuz, posted just before yours, as it is very informative. Only "Palestinian Jews" called themselves "Palestinians" prior to establishment of Israel in 1948. Arabs did not.

I have relatives on both my mother's and father's side who have been living in "the promised land - since the 1820's on my father's side and since the 1920's on my mother's side. The all emigrated from America. A cousin of my mother served on the Citiy Council of Jerusalem. She had been born there. I met her when she visited us here soon after the UN created the State of Israel. She was an old lady and I was about 13. The most outstanding thing I remember about her was that she refused to speak English in protest to the British and the Balfour Declaration so we could not communicate.

Did Lloyd George actually hold 3 contradictory positions, or did he just tell different people he held them? And if it's the latter, what was his real position?

We next find Moshe Dayan addressing the Technion (Israel Institute of Technology), Haifa (as quoted in Ha'aretz, 4 April 1969).

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either.

Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman.

There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

@Herb E
"Islam was manufactured..." wow the cultural sensitivity is really coming out today...and I love this reverse scoring both sides do: the more dead the more points...so who's winning again?

sanych, at the time, *everyone* living in Palestine was called a Palestinian. There were Palestinian Jews, & there were Palestinian Arabs. So nobody owned the name, & nobody "stole" it.

First of all, "Palestina" is a name the Roman European occupiers gave the land in 135 AD after crushing the JEwish state. Just as Europeans gave this land we live in "America" and did not ask the natives what name to call it. For Jews, the name of the land in Hebrew is "Eretz Yisrael"or the Land of Israel.
In the 400 years of Ottoman rule, from 1516 to 1918, there was no "Palestine" at all. The territory itself was divided into 4 districts or "sanjaqs" in Turkish. It was an extremely minor and backward part of the Ottoman empire. Natually, the Europeans continued to call it Palestine, going by the Roman name. The Arabs living there did not call themselves Palestinians, but either Arabs or Southern Syrians. The Arabs mostly began to adopt this label "Palestinians" mainly after 1948, when Israel was established. It was to create a national identity where none had previously existed.

It says, "*His Majesty's* government view with favour...." How much control did the king have over the gov't. at the time? Was this his position, or Parliament's, or both, & did the answer have any effect on the Balfour Declaration & its results?

Leonard,

Jews continuously lived in the area known as Palestine for three thousand years, not centuries, as you stated.

NPR should be renamed National Palestinian Radio as every single guest about this issue is anti-Zionist or at least pro-Palestinian in flavor. I will never contribute a penny to National Palestinian Radio in my life ever! That is a promise. This radio show refuses to let on a truly pro-Zionist spokesman. Period.

What were the boundaries discussed in 1918? Did they include Jerusalem?

At the time of Balfour Declaration, Jews living in Palestine were called "Palestinians".

For example, "Jerusalem Post" was called "Palestinian Post".

Another example -- a Jewish Palestinian Pavilion was present at New York World's Fair in 1939 -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_New_York_World%27s_Fair

So, "Palestinians" stole their name from ... Jews after Jews in the area started to call themselves "Israelis".

Jgarbuz, what right did imperialist Britain and the League of Nations (made up mostly of other imperialist nations and their puppet states) have to decide what was to be done with this land and the people living there? It was IMPERIALISM, plain and simple.

A bigger price was paid by the Jews. Six thousand Jews dead in the 1948 war, and 856,000 Jews expelled from the Arab countries. But one never hears discussions about that.

Every revolution, has its price, of course, and the Zionist revolution was
no exception. By a brutal twist of fate,
unexpected, undesired and unconsidered by the early pioneers,
this price was partly paid by the Arab
inhabitants of Palestine. The Arabs
bore no responsibility for the centuries
long suffering of Jews in Europe, yet, in
the end the Arabs were punished because of it. The price extracted
was heavy; it is impossible to measure it in terms of human bitterness and suffering. Whatever their subsequent follies & outrages might be, the
punishment of Arabs for the sins
of Europe must burden the conscience of Israelis for a long time to come,"
by Amos Elon, The Israelis Founders
and sons.

Please explain to your audience that it was not Britain, but the COUNCIL of the League of Nations (then equivalent of today's UN Security Council) that restored the JEwish National Home!!! Later on, Britain became a reluctant administrator with Arabists on the ground actively trying to thwart the League's injunctions! And this led to the Jewish insurgency that eventually forced the British to leave and turn the problem over to the UN.

The Israelis stole (yes, "stole") Palestine from the Palestinians in 1948. No due process; no compensation; no apologies. They just stole it. Is there any wonder why the Palestinians are so pissed off?

It should be understood from the outset of this discussion that the Balfour Declaration was a British war policy decision, but that it gained INTERNATIONAL LEGALITY when it was adopted by the Council of the League of Nations, which incorporated it as the basis of the Mandate over Palestine which Britain was APPOINTED by the League to ADMINISTER. Palestine never was part of the British empire. The Mandate instructed Britain to "facilitate" the establishment of a "Jewish National Home" in Palestine, while respecting the civil and religious rights of its "non-Jewish inhabitants."

Unfortunately, the Arabs rejected the League of Nations Mandate and the war between Jews and Arabs over sovereignty over this land began really in 1920, not in 1948 as is often incorrectly believed.

The book title implies that before The Balfour Declaration there was no conflict between the Arabs & Jews. I don't think so. Please make clear that Arabs & Persions were kiling Jews before Islam was manufactured.