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Cheap

Thursday, July 23, 2009

Ellen Ruppel Shell traces our national obsession with the bargain from the Industrial Revolution to the modern assembly line, and from chain stores to big-box retailers who value convenience and low-prices over quality. In her book Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture, she examines our desire for cheap goods and how it has spurred globalization, outsourcing, planned obsolescence, and economic instability, all of which have had tremendous impact on the global economy.

Guests:

Ellen Ruppel Shell

Comments [33]

Shana from Clinton Hill/Fort Greene, Brooklyn

My father actually berated me for spending my Christmas bonus to buy a pots and pans set from Williams-Sonoma that were on sale around Christmas time. He said that I should have just gone to Macy's like my mother does and buy the $100 dollar set. Six years later, I still have that set (with its lifetime warranty) and all the appliances that I overspent on whereas my motehr is on fifth or sixth set. They also teased me about taking all my grandmother's Tupperware and various other baking dishes. I have never in my life bought Ikea furniture, it is not worth it. I have purchased loads of stuff from flea markets and antique shops instead though. A great way to get nice design at an affordable price with good quality avoiding having to replace everything in two years.

Jul. 24 2009 03:06 PM
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Rudy from Queens

In fairness, I should have added this...
"The provisions of this section shall not apply to any retail store having had annual gross sales of consumer commodities in the previous calendar year of less than two and one-half million dollars."

That's roughly an average of $7,000/day. A sleepy, one-checkout-lane market might not do that much.

(BTW, I'm not a lawyer, and please consult the links for additional info.)

Jul. 23 2009 02:06 PM
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Rudy from Queens

Regarding unit pricing, here you go, so you can knowledgeably (and politely) discuss this with your local manager:

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS
Look for:
Agriculture and Markets Law § 214-H. Unit pricing.

Excerpt:
"A consumer commodity sold, or offered for sale
or exposed for sale, subject to this section, shall have the unit price and total price disclosed to the consumer in one of the following ways:
a. if the item is conspicuously visible to the consumer, by the attachment of a stamp, tag or label directly under the item on the shelf on which the item is displayed," [etc.]

Other links:
http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/FS/industry/04circs/unitpriceandmpriceCIR942.htm (1997)

http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/WM/RegPart345.pdf (2002)

Jul. 23 2009 01:27 PM
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Albana from NYC

hello, did anyone happen to remember the name of the store she mentioned at the end of the interview where she shops from?

Jul. 23 2009 12:55 PM
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Rudy from Queens

Ralph, yes, Unit Pricing is required by New York State Agricultural law. Has been for 30 years. Ask an NYC supermarket manager why he or she doesn't follow it, and odds are you'll get some nonsense about prices changing too often, or be ignored, told to mind your own business, or suggested that you're crazy.

NYC Consumer Affairs does not enforce this provision except on complaint against specific store(s).

Filing a complaint is pretty easy -- just phoning 311 or your local Councilperson. You will need the street address of the store, which if not on their awning, will probably be on their receipt. (Just don't buy anything that isn't unit-priced.) Getting better than 30% compliance, even after Consumer Affairs action, is the hard part.

I will try to post the exact language or a URL here shortly.

Jul. 23 2009 12:54 PM
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Mike from mass

My girlgriend and I both grew up with Wegmans as our local grocery store. She growing up in Buffalo and working at several of their branches and myself growing up in Syracuse. Having moved out of the area, we miss it. "i miss Wegmans" is not an uncommon lament to be seen posted on facebook from our friends who have also relocated. Loved hearing Ellen give praise for a hometown business and the rest of the book sounds very interesting, good interview.

Jul. 23 2009 12:50 PM
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JU

This guy I think piggy backs on the perception of quality.

Baba Shiv Professor of Marketing Graduate School of Business Trust Faculty Fellow for 2008-2009

http://gsbapps.stanford.edu/facultyprofiles/biomain.asp?id=44749209

His Webnair
Here is his webnair

https://stanford.webex.com/ec0605l/eventcenter/recording/recordAction.do?theAction=poprecord&actname=%2Feventcenter%2Fframe%2Fg.do&apiname=lsr.php&renewticket=0&renewticket=0&actappname=ec0605l&entappname=url0107l&needFilter=false&&isurlact=true&entactname=%2FnbrRecordingURL.do&rID=33519582&rKey=27c931303fc12511&recordID=33519582&rnd=2305445302&siteurl=stanford&SP=EC&AT=pb&format=short

Jul. 23 2009 12:45 PM
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Megan from Manhattan

I agree with most of what the guest said, but took exception to her treatment of IKEA. For those of us who can't afford the highest quality furniture, IKEA can be a life saver. Movers DO move IKEA furniture because it is most of what we have. As we are just starting out, we need something we can afford. Many families living on low-incomes deserve nice ways to furnish their homes.

Yes, quality is an issue, throw-away consumer goods are destroying our environment, but we can't forget other economic factors and the reality of people's lives.

Jul. 23 2009 12:44 PM
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Michaela from NYC

Smart people know the true value of goods and spend accordingly. If you have all the money in the world then go ahead and spend the 150.00 for the dress at Ann Taylor or where ever....that's plain impulsive, wasteful and frivolous So what happens if you wait..that dress is now $35.00. Ever wonder how these stores can discount so deeply in such a short period of time....the dress actually cost the retailer $4.00 to produce and ship. Lets have a more thorough discussion about the ethics of buying so low from poor countries and marking it up so much. Move the conversation away from what a dupe the consumer is and lets talk about less profit for the big companies and appropriate. By the way, nearly all bookshelves that are affordable are made the same way as IKEA....college students can't afford 700.00 bookshelves...get real! The middle class can't afford to spend 250.00 a week at Whole Foods either..and by the way a lot of their stuff is over prices too.

Jul. 23 2009 12:43 PM
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ralph bee from Brooklyn

In Germany, riddiciously exaggerated MSRPs are called "Moon Prices" because they are only valid for the man in the moon. And they are illegal because they just exist to deceive the customers.

In the US, where there is very little consumer protection, if you pay more than 50% of MSRP on anything, chances are that you are getting screwed!

btw, aren't there any laws that every item in a super market has to be priced? and that there also has to be given a price/per standardized unit? now with companies rather reducing the quantity than increasing the price, price comparison is almost made impossible!

consumers should be given full disclosure, to have at least a fighting chance...

Jul. 23 2009 12:41 PM
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Rudy from Queens

I have yet to see one of those "cam-assembly" bookcases, etc. tossed on the sidewalk that was not ripped apart, rather than disassembled by simply turning the cams.

It takes more work to swing the hammer!

New Yorkers are not only wasteful, ineffective shoppers, most are mechanically inept.

Jul. 23 2009 12:40 PM
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MG from NYC

I don't agree about movers not touching IKEA items. I have used Flatrate movers not long ago and they moved my sets of IKEA bookcases and a chair and another set of shelves, to say nothing of all their picture frames I use, and there was no problem.

Jul. 23 2009 12:40 PM
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Kathy from Morganville, NJ

I recently shopped at the Jersey Shore Premium Outlets in Tinton Falls, NJ. One of the stores I shopped at stated that their store's merchandise was exclusive to them. They are independent of the non-outlet store. Non of the merchandise is closeouts or seconds. This store being Lane Bryant Outlet. The other store was Fashion Bug, I noticed the prices not to be bargain priced. I asked the sales person and she stated that their store was not outlet, but a regular retail store. How can a regular retail store be in a outlet mall? All of the stores in this mall were big name brands and very pricey too.

Jul. 23 2009 12:38 PM
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JP from The Garden State

I have been cheated, ripped off and treated like crap equally at mom and pop stores that are local downtown stores as I have from big box stores. Just because you’re local and downtown does not mean your honest, helpful and friendly. These days it seems the same snotty useless teenager is employed at the local hardware store and Home Depot.

Jul. 23 2009 12:38 PM
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JG from NYC

I have heard that Ikea saves money by using prison laborers. True?

Jul. 23 2009 12:37 PM
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lag

To add what was said about credit/debit cards, cashback takes it even further. Not only do you not physically give up any money, but you leave with more cash than you came in.

Jul. 23 2009 12:36 PM
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MichaelB from Morningside Heights

BRF [14], I believe she may mean 20 miles from a population center. That's a reasonable statement.

Jul. 23 2009 12:35 PM
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gregb from NJ

I used to work at AT&T. The main reason we maintained the expensive phone stores in every town, was to established a "price umbrella" under which kmart and others could "discount" their price.

Jul. 23 2009 12:33 PM
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J from NYC

Thank you for bringing attention to the Walmart - scam. They say their prices are lower and people just believe it.

Jul. 23 2009 12:30 PM
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BRF from Brooklyn

How can you say that these stores tends to be 20 miles from anyone’s home? From… everyone’s home? I don’t see how this makes sense.

Jul. 23 2009 12:30 PM
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Smita from 10012

I wonder if you could bring people on who would pass some definition of 'miserly' so we could see how they respond differently to the whole game-playing scenario.

Jul. 23 2009 12:28 PM
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Phyllis from NYC

I am sorry, who are so dim-witted to think that "price is the most objective thing we can know about something"? For there to be the need for books to correct such grotesque misconceptions among the masses is a testament to the magnitude of ignorance in this society.

Jul. 23 2009 12:26 PM
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Seth from Upper West Side

I believe there are a great number of people who would STILL buy the defective/lower quality product in spite of knowing about the bait-and-switch that's taking place.
Owning the appearance of the "brand" is more important to some people than actually having the quality product!

Jul. 23 2009 12:24 PM
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JP from The Garden State

These days with the internet and everybody putting their specs and prices out for everyone to see, why are people paying to much even though 30 seconds of research can point them right to the cheapest price for the exact product your looking for (not a facsimile of)?

Jul. 23 2009 12:23 PM
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anonyme

You know this also applies to food. Cheap food= toxins.

Jul. 23 2009 12:21 PM
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zen from south salem

This situation occurs to me at Costco, when we go with the intent of saving money we always end up spending way more than we would have at a normal grocery store.

Jul. 23 2009 12:20 PM
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anonyme

Why do you dislike IKEA so much? Becaue it's throwaway?

Jul. 23 2009 12:19 PM
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anonyme

My motehr made us learn how to tailor things - just so we would know how to buy things! Or design them too.

Jul. 23 2009 12:19 PM
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Taher from Croton on Hudson

Check out the outrageous mark ups of retail goods in this country. And where are goods made, in countries with some of the world’s lowest wages. That’s “cheap.”

Jul. 23 2009 12:18 PM
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anonyme

But brands don't mean anything to the people who buy and sell them - just a name - true of everything it seems, except Hermes and Gucci.

Coach had intgrity before Sara Lee bought it -

Jul. 23 2009 12:17 PM
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Phyllis from NYC

Low price does not equal fair price does not equal right price. If we want fairness and ecological sustainability, we are going to have to learn to recognize, and honor, some elementary distinctions.

Jul. 23 2009 12:14 PM
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Nina from NYC

Getting cheap products like furniture from Ikea definitely has a cost- and not just costs like the environmental toll of shipping overseas and unfair labor wages- but a cost of the consumer losing their minds having to deal with the non-existent customer service of bargain stores! I have had the worst experiences with Ikea. I just bought a bookshelf from Ikea, got it home, opened the box, and there was not one piece of hardware in the box. I called the customer service and they said to go back to the store. We went back to the store , got home, and found out the disgruntled Ikea employee who did not give a crap about trying to help gave us the wrong hardware, and had to go back again. This is only one example I have about a bad Ikea experience. I will never buy something from Ikea again. I would rather pay more next time in order not to deal with all the hassle, not to mention the poor Ikea quality.

Jul. 23 2009 12:12 PM
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bob from NYC

poor people cannot afford buying cheap things.

Jul. 23 2009 12:02 PM
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