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Identity and Democracy

Wednesday, June 25, 2008

Human rights icon Natan Sharansky is a former Soviet dissident and political prisoner; he’s also served as a senior minister in the Israeli government. He says that strong identity is vital to a healthy democracy, and valueless cosmopolitanism is very dangerous. His new book is Defending Identity.

Event: Natan Sharansky will be speaking and signing books
Wednesday, June 25
Congregation Keter Torah
600 Roemer Ave.
Teaneck, NJ 07666
8:15 pm general admission; $10/adults and $5/students
for more info call 201-837-2795

Guests:

Natan Sharansky

Comments [19]

eff

There were many, but did you all catch this gem:

Mugabe was helped by the West, "deplorable", but silence on why the people there should not be liberated by force. Then quickly agree that Saddam was helped by the West as well (no "deplorable" there), but Saddam supported suicide bombers so "he had to be taken out." National security, of course.

Oh, and peep not about oil, nothing to see there.

Moral giant, moral giant with his most general ideas for the benefit of all mankind.

Jun. 27 2008 03:47 PM
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Sarah

Peter, please relax.

Jun. 26 2008 05:00 PM
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Peter from Sunet Park

hjs:

Thanks for the welcome!

Jun. 25 2008 04:41 PM
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hjs from 11211

life is full of evidence open your eyes.
let's go beyond name calling and grammar police and look for common ground!

peter, welcome to the boards. i look forward to your 'insights' always interesting to get a different view.

Jun. 25 2008 02:29 PM
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Peter from Sunset Park

RAI,

You define yourself as "liberal" and you then call a person you disagree with as "right wing." But you offer no evidence to support your thoughts. Perhaps your views would be taken more seriously if you did more than label folks. Try presenting facts, not labels bro.

I just got back from two weeks in Italy. Most everyone I met vocally hated Bush (Italians talk more openly about politics than Americans) and everyone, I mean everyone, I met in Italy thinks Obama is Muslim. Of course, I explained that he is actually a Christian and folks thought I was right wing by denying that he was a Muslim. So, I guess all these good Italians are extremists?
Or do their "liberal" politics get them off the hook?

Jun. 25 2008 01:53 PM
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chris o from New York City

The moral titan Sharansky says, "When I or my friends do it, it is okay. When my enemies do it, it is deplorable."

Jun. 25 2008 01:49 PM
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Alex from NYC, EV

I'm willing to die for and defend vigorously the world described in Imagine. This is very obvious to me; perhaps, I’m missing something.

Jun. 25 2008 01:49 PM
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Steve from Manhattan

@RAI - re: Peter - I never thought WNYC would have its own concern troll.

Jun. 25 2008 01:48 PM
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Suzanne from Brooklyn

But doesn't a strong belief in religion or national identity, etc. often produce divisions and even violence? Sure, it helped him in the Gulag. But he was probably in the Gulag with Latvians and Lithuanians whose strong religious and nationalist identities led them to collaborate with Hitler's troops in the Holocaust. And how did the strong nationalist feelings in the Balkans lead to democracy?? They led to war.
Identity in the political (vs personal) sphere can be dangerous, it seems to me. Identity is vital, but when it becomes identity politics, the danger appears clear throughout history.

Jun. 25 2008 01:38 PM
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RAI from Manhattan

Peter,
Your inferences about my views on Israel are about as credible as the view that Barack Obama is a Muslim. You and Megan are both setting up "straw men," a practice common among extremists and demagogues of all stripes.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
- Mark Twain

Jun. 25 2008 01:36 PM
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Dana from Brooklyn

The anarchists of Spain set out to destroy all religions and allied with socialists and tragically the Communists fought a war against Hitler backed Spanish fascists and died by the thousands.

Jun. 25 2008 01:31 PM
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megan from Park Slope

RAI - pretty weak response - lol
Perhaps you should (re)read your own comments, too. Or just think before you write. Either way, have a good day.

Jun. 25 2008 01:26 PM
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Peter from Sunset Park

Megan,

It is so nice to hear your views. I am more "liberal" than most. I just can't understand how liberalism has grown to mean Bush is bad and horrors like war crimes get ignored. Take this week, Israel agreed to a truce with Hamas, and Hamas came out yesterday and actually said the truce is fine but they won't enforce it. But speak out against this injustice and you must be labeled a "right wing nut." So it goes.

Jun. 25 2008 01:24 PM
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RAI from Manhattan

Megan,

My comments are simply my opinions based on years of following the political scene, here and elsewhere.
Before subjecting me to YOUR smears, try actually READING my comments and paying attention to sentence structure and punctuation! It seems that YOU are "just another anonymous agenda-driven propogandist smearing others." (I don't know why I'm descending to your level. Probably the result of reading too many listener comments.)

Jun. 25 2008 01:19 PM
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megan from Park Slope

When self-declared liberals actually begin to speak against war criminals, oppressors and dictators who are anti-American, they’ll have more credibility…

Right now, they just seem like politicized phonies…critiquing anyone who isn't anti-American

Jun. 25 2008 01:17 PM
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Peter from Sunset Park

Megan,

I was pretty much raised a liberal American Jew. Now I am just an American Jew - why complicate things?

It has been my experience that when any Jew speaks up to defend Israel, they get slapped with a far right conservative label of some sort.

It seems that to please listeners like RAI, the only position to be held is that Israel is illegal and must self destruct into a one state solution. Anything else, and you are a right wing nut.

Jun. 25 2008 01:10 PM
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megan from Park Slope

#2 - can you supply some evidence re: your smears.

a. How is Natan Sharansky "bogeymen of the far right" ?
b. How has he become an "authoritarian"?

w/out facts, you're just another anonymous agenda-driven propogandist smearing others - whether you really are a "liberal American Jew" or not.

Jun. 25 2008 01:00 PM
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RAI from Manhattan

"Valueless cosmopolitanism" sounds a lot like the "rootless cosmopolitanism" that used to be frequently condemned in the USSR and/or China, if my memory serves me correctly.
I guess that Sharansky would like "valueless cosmopolitanism" to take its place alongside "secular humanism" and all the other bogeymen of the far right, which includes Sharansky himself, at least regarding Israeli-Palestinian relations.
I would like to know what he regards as "strong identity" vital to democracy. Despite his experiences in the former Soviet Union, he seems to have become something of an authoritarian. (I regard authoritarians, left and right, as a plague. I identify myself as a liberal American Jew.)

Jun. 25 2008 12:55 PM
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Peter from Sunset Park

Hamas has signed a “truce” with Israel, but has also said that they will not police other factions such as Islamic Jihad. Already, Islamic Jihad has broken the truce by firing rockets from Gaza and injuring two Israelis. How can you have a cease fire while allowing your people to fire? I would like to hear Mr. Sharanksy’s views on this issue.

Jun. 25 2008 08:47 AM
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